Additional Version Update Information

[Konve]

Combibo already does

But the regeneration is less significant on smaller mobs.

As far as I know, the regen rate is exactly the same on combibo as, say, atrox.

 

[Thaddeuss]

man i went out and tried some molisk the other night in the LA above emerald and wow were they kickn my ass lol

i was wearing ghost and shooting a amped isis 41 and i couldnt kill them a single one.

I use to be able to take down atleast the raiders but nope i get my butt handed to me by all the high maturity ones now it seems ;(

too bad that was a good mid lvl hunter mob.

 

[Oleg]

As far as I know, the regen rate is exactly the same on combibo as, say, atrox.

Same regen rate, but not the same significance in effect.

The Combibo regeneration is less significant than the Atrox regeneration because most players can take down a Combibo easily enough that they don't need to worry about the regeneration.

For example, if I hunt small Combibos naked with an S60, I won't need to FAP very much at all, if ever, and I'll kill them in just a few seconds, allowing time for one or two regenerations only. So the regen effect doesn't increase my costs very much at all.

On the other hand, if I were to hunt Atrox naked with an S60... well, I don't think that would work very well at all

Similarly the regen is more significant on a Combibo Stalker than on a Combibo Young. That has always been the case, but the faster regeneration makes that difference larger (in theory, I don't think anyone has seen a Combibo Stalker for some time )

The regen effect on Combibo remains significant for new players, but those people are a relatively small percentage of the EU population when compared to those whose costs would be affected by the changes to Atrox or Ambu, for example. Therefore the overall, universal effect is less significant.

 

[Kpeters]

True where are the Combibo stalkers gone?

 

[Oleg]

True where are the Combibo stalkers gone?

The LA east of Shinook is the only place with Combibo DNA, and it's owned by Nostrop who's been banned for 2 years or so, so the land is unfertilised and has been for some time. Before Nostrop got locked there were Combibo Stalkers there, and as far as I know that's the only place they've ever been seen.

He also owned 3 other land areas that are in the same situation, as is the Longu LA southeast of Emerald (owned by another player, also banned).

 

[chielsen]

(owned by another player, also banned).

Banned but still ingame..

 

[Jimmy B]

As far as I know, the regen rate is exactly the same on combibo as, say, atrox.

Isn't it based on a percentage of total HP? So bigger mobs will regenerate more HP per sec than smaller mobs. And, as Oleg points out bigger mobs will in general require more fap time.

If you take a Riker UL1 and try to kill and Ambu Young with it, I doubt you can do it. It'll regenerate faster than you're killing it. Doubt there's any such difficulty with UL1 vs Combibo Young?

 

[Raffaele Meiers]

No, re-read my post.

'part of the decay' is exactly the point. We know it can't be all decay as otherwise melee weapons would really screw up the economy. So the proportion of decay taken from say a Valor must presumably be different to the proportion taken from a P5a.

Thus presumably those proportions can be adjusted.

I know they do not take all decay but they cant take more than all and therfore all the low decaying noSIB weapon(below 1 pec Decay a shot not talking aout ) with very small decay are bad for the flexibility of MA to determin their income. So new L weaons with 2, 4 or even more Pec decay per shot let them more flexible determion how much they earn.

OK but how should I interpret this? And how does it fit to MA take part of the decay as their 'cut' and rest is recyceled?

MA can just reduce loot if they want to increase their 'cut'.

 

[eragon]

*RANT*

blah :/ as long as they dont act like frickin ambuli, im ok.

 

[Mega]

"So was I nerfed by mistake or not?"

 

[Jimmy B]

OK but how should I interpret this? And how does it fit to MA take part of the decay as their 'cut' and rest is recyceled?

'Increase proportion of decay taken' and 'reduce loot' are effectively the same statements from your viewpoint, no?

I know they do not take all decay but they cant take more than all and therfore all the low decaying noSIB weapon(below 1 pec Decay a shot not talking aout ) with very small decay are bad for the flexibility of MA to determin their income. So new L weaons with 2, 4 or even more Pec decay per shot let them more flexible determion how much they earn.

Well, sure, but don't forget armor decay, fap decay, etc.

Anyway I just feel some of the posts in this thread are complaining about MA increasing the regeneration of mobs in order to increase revenue. Well, obviously MA want to increase revenue hehe, but tbh I don't see any real reason why these changes have that effect as I don't understand the loot system well enough to make that determination. Generally, if you see me in a complaining mood, it'll normally be about the lack of clarity in the loot system, item descriptions, etc, because I like to understand how the rules of the 'game' work so that I can think, and figure out good strategies. Trial-and-error, and massive data collection, appeals somewhat less.

I'm not however going to complain about change based on the assumption that all change is bad for the players, because I don't believe that to be the case.

 

[Raffaele Meiers]

Inceased health regen means more shots per mob to kill = more decay on weapon/amp = more income to ma

Inceased health regen means more time mob can hit you = more decay on Armor and Fap = more income to ma

So MA icreased on the adjusted mobs their income per Mob killed, loot comes from the users of the service and goes to the users of the service minus the part MA takes from the decay.

More decay per mob means more income to MA per mob.
Lesser mobs killed per run means lesser chances to get a good item/loot from the mob.

 

[Zabler]

"So was I nerfed by mistake or not?"

Im also still waiting for this to get answered...
Or did MA did uncomfortable now?

 

[Redfrog]

I haven't killed a Mourner for a couple of months now but I can confirm that, at that time, they were definitely NOT regen mobs.

 

[Jimmy B]

Inceased health regen means more shots per mob to kill = more decay on weapon/amp = more income to ma

Nonsense. Kill one mob with 20 shots, or kill two mobs with 20 shots. Decay on weapon/amp is the same in either circumstance.

Inceased health regen means more time mob can hit you = more decay on Armor and Fap = more income to ma

Well again, if it just goes from 10 shots and 10 units of armor/fap decay per mob to 20 shots and 20 units of armor/fap decay per mob it makes no difference really. If it causes more armor/fap decay per shot then perhaps it makes some difference yes.

Personally though you're much surer of your view of the loot system than I am. For instance, I seem to get pretty terrible loot generally if I kill mobs in a manner such that I have no armor and fap decay. That should by your logic be the best way to hunt, but I'm far from certain it is.

Anyway, of course, you can argue everything MA does is to increase revenue. They're hardly going to do something that has the intention to decrease revenue. However, there's positive ways to increase revenue and not so positive ways. I would say part of the reasoning behind this change is that everyone likes getting globals and hofs, and this makes them more accessible to lower level players, perhaps motivating them and giving them the chance to enjoy some swirlies from time to time. Not so long ago the non-uber portion of HoF table (ie. below top 10 or so) was vastly dominated by fairly tough mobs, aurli, kreltin, spiders, dasps, hogglo, etc. Now there's regularly mini-hofs for mobs like ambu, trox, feffs, allos, etc. And nearly everyone can hunt them.

 

[NightwolfAA2k5]

I think I see where MA are going with these 'Adjusted' mobs and I'm not sure I like it. Maybe it is a good thing I decided to quit...

 

[Raffaele Meiers]

Nonsense. Kill one mob with 20 shots, or kill two mobs with 20 shots. Decay on weapon/amp is the same in either circumstance.

Have to once say to you also nonsense, sorry.
Sure as the mob who needs twice as much shots has more time to chew on your armor and tagging them is only waist of ammo as it has again full health when it arrives you surely have more decay on armor and fap then when you tagg and kill a mob with not so much health regain. Because you have to reduce more health when he can hit you there will be certainly more decay on armor and fap compared to old regen mobs witch where nearly dead at the moment it arrived and started to hit you.

Well again, if it just goes from 10 shots and 10 units of armor/fap decay per mob to 20 shots and 20 units of armor/fap decay per mob it makes no difference really. If it causes more armor/fap decay per shot then perhaps it makes some difference yes.

Personally though you're much surer of your view of the loot system than I am. For instance, I seem to get pretty terrible loot generally if I kill mobs in a manner such that I have no armor and fap decay. That should by your logic be the best way to hunt, but I'm far from certain it is.

Anyway, of course, you can argue everything MA does is to increase revenue. They're hardly going to do something that has the intention to decrease revenue. However, there's positive ways to increase revenue and not so positive ways. I would say part of the reasoning behind this change is that everyone likes getting globals and hofs, and this makes them more accessible to lower level players, perhaps motivating them and giving them the chance to enjoy some swirlies from time to time.

MAybe more Globals but certainly you need one to get near break even where as without the adjustment the chances to break even where better.
Or how can MA pay out around 130K Ped in 6 loots in 8 days if not the others loose this amount in this 8 days?
I still think it is like they just changed it from a 1$ slot machine to a 2$ slot machine so to have the same chance to get some good loot you need twice as much peds.

Not so long ago the non-uber portion of HoF table (ie. below top 10 or so) was vastly dominated by fairly tough mobs, aurli, kreltin, spiders, dasps, hogglo, etc. Now there's regularly mini-hofs for mobs like ambu, trox, feffs, allos, etc. And nearly everyone can hunt them.

Feffoids and Allophyl are certainly not so much on HoF list as some months ago. Ambu HoF have also reduced and all the 20K Trox loot has to come from other Trox hunters so I think all this better loot theories are not true or certainly do not get the whole picture as MA certainly not pays out more than they get. So all this 20K Trox loots have to come from the Customers who looses this 20K in advance so MA can pay it out.
Or do you disagree on this? And yes after modification of the spiders they are once again out of reach for anything except the ones with uber FAP, uber Health and uber weapons and even they seldomly hunt them no solo.

PS: I thought, from the insane test, that overkilling means not a proportional increase in loot, meaning twice as much HP reduced means twice as much loot.

PPS: I have to aggree that they made it so more Globals and HoF run through the chat so people think hey the Trox pay good tonight and also go hunt them.

 

[Xandra]

Hi,

for me this plain propaganda. I have killed about 500 Molisk young - guardian since VU and haven't seen any difference in loot. Does anyone have hard proofs?

And I cannot understand that it would make any sense to improve loot - too! After all we're talking of a beginners mob with no bad loot whose lower maturities would be killed by a seasoned participant with one or two shots - changing the balance and improving loot further would mean that this mob's younger maturities would be a perfect target for our Uber participants eco hunts, actually hindering them to hunt all of their high decay HoF-bringers ...

Some of us are propagating now that decay spent would decide the loot - a rather strange idea, and contradicting nearly anything we learned about eco hunting within the last years ... So killing a young molisk with some few H400 shots would give way less loot than whacking it for hours with a Mux-2? We might then even buy weapons with especially low eco, because of the better loot ... Really strange, but things might change.

Maybe I should sell my eco gear, and fast buy all of those most un-eco non-sellers rotting in shops, after all I'd get better loot using 'em - ridiculous? IMHO yes.

IMHO MA has just introduced another nerf. More wasted PED on some much hunted low lvl mobs, so more need to deposit again, so more money to MA.

They need money, it seems. And they don't take "only from decay" as they claim, they take anything deposited. Check theirs quarterly reviews - I'm no book-keeper, but often have I asked about - no one could give me an answer yet.

Adding to cost-to-kill, reducing the overall return percentage on certain popular mobs, thus adding to the costs to skill in traditional way - this all makes participants depositing more. And brings hard $$$ into MA's purse.

On the other hand the ongoing nerfing of previous newcomer mobs makes the choice for them ambitous beginners smaller and smaller - with the ongoing nerfs MA not only makes crafting of Breer's of the 1 or 2 series even more risky, they also seriously hinder the upcoming of new participants. Right, they have a few mobs left to use for skilling - but for how long? When will they be nerfed, too? And how long until we have no follow-ups anymore? Who will pay our loot then?

IMHO MA is on complete wrong track there.

Have fun!

 

[StarGlider]

I completly agree Xandra.

I again went on another mollisk hunt, to see if anything special about loot had changed, and again, most consisted of a few muscle oils, some residue, the odd ammo clip between 5 to 20, and teeth, which have not increased, that being the main reason I hunt them. Again, the majority were no looters.
Before the update, I often got some armour, shogun, about 5 or 6 ped tt on it, and some nerve blasts, now i've yet to loot that.

Only thing I can say is different, a scavenger (I think it was this) dropped me 3 thyroid oils instead of muscle oil, please tell us all, this is not your adjusted loot you speak of.

That's why I would like a MA rep to define to us all, the adjusted loot distribution.

Is it increased oils and so forth per kill (not in my case it's not) or 1 in a certain number that will global, thats increased.

It's exactly the same as the other low level mobs (combibo, maffoid, faf)with supposed adjusted loots to, from the last vu, i've yet to recieve anything even remotly remarkable from them, other than wool, oils and ammo. most of those I no longer hunt, due to these promises made.

 

[Dark Cat]

When I heard that Molisk had become re-gen, I went out and hunted them to test it out. Within about 30 mins I had taken two globals and had 8 pieces of Shogun armour. Probably the best Molisk hunt I'd ever had. (Limnidiea/Medusa area.)

Granted, I was probably just on a lucky spree, but who's to say others on the other end of the spectrum weren't just on an unlucky spree? There really isn't anyway to test it conclusively.

 

[Jimmy B]

And I cannot understand that it would make any sense to improve loot - too!

I think you're probably misinterpreting the comment.

MA aren't saying overall loot is now better on Molisk. They're saying that if the regeneration means it costs you 10% more to kill a Molisk than previously then the loot received from it will be 10% more than previously. Or something like that.

 

[SpikeBlack]

MA aren't saying overall loot is now better on Molisk. They're saying that if the regeneration means it costs you 10% more to kill a Molisk than previously then the loot received from it will be 10% more than previously. Or something like that.

Unless MA actually define what 'adjusted loot' means then we can argue for months. Seeing as we pay for this service through deposits and decay I think a little more information would be nice, a definitive answer from MA to what 'adjusted loot' means not just 'we've changed it a bit' but if we did get answer I'd be amazed.

So far its meant that the usual crap loots appear but theres a slightly higher chance of getting something decent. The original adjusted mobs seemed to have better loot but this could simply be MA increasing the it to justify the added cost while slowly decreasing it over time to pre adjusted levels so that no one notices.

I've tried the adjusted mobs and to be honest the only loot I got was the usual worthless crap that no one wants.

 

[SeanJohn]

the loot in my mind from playing this weekend is still over the same or worse :/ i hope they changed it and i just had a few bad days i globaled a few time at the beginning then by the end i started just loosing ped.. but oh well thats part of the game right u just have fun and hope something mega big comes

SJ

 

[Xandra]

Hi,

They're saying that if the regeneration means it costs you 10% more to kill a Molisk than previously then the loot received from it will be 10% more than previously. Or something like that.

This is correct. MA said:

As in previous adjustments, the loot received from these creatures has been increased in proportion to the regeneration adjustment.

Right, so what does this tell us?

What is meant with "As in previous adjustments"? Combibo?
Is there another mob that only gained regeneration? We cannot count Atrox, Maffoid, Feffoid etc. because these got more HP, too - and as it is commonly known that the overall loot value is dependent of HP for sure these got more loot.

But did Combibo, Molisk, Caudatergus and Cornundo really get more loot? And how would this work?

Other than improved HP the improved regeneration isn't the same for all hunters - killing one of these in a single shot from a big weapon would completely negate regeneration! Thus, if the loot would be improved for a fixed value, the Uber with his big gun would enjoy better eco, because the regeneration wouldn't even hit him.

On the other hand, if the loot would have been improved depending of happened cycles of regeneration, this would benefit bots with a high evade that would stand in front of a young molisk for hours, shooting every [given time, before poor molisk gets bored] with a m2100 at it, and when finally killing, they would receive huge loots! Crazy? Yes, IMHO.

A third possibility: Would the loot be dependent of cost/ kill this would turn our universe completely - most possible uneconomical hunting would yield best loot, and the current dogma of "Kill as fast and cheap as possible" would be completely wrong ... We'd all spent insane sums on a single mob per hunt that has a nice loot table, using most expensive armors & plates (= high decay), most uneco FAPs (= high decay), and low damage, high cost weapons. Mux-2 prices would skyrocket ... Crazy? Yes, IMHO.

So I'm rather sure only possibility #1 (fixed value, bound to HP) can be true, the other possibilities would open wide gates for botting and exploitation, and MA isn't this dumb to not see this.

But they say they have improved loot. This could be a plain lie, or it could mean that some maturities have got added something more valuable to their loot table. A better markup oil, for instance, for the top maturities. And this is what I think is true.


We see now that some of the middle class to Uber mobs got more HP & Regen, and some of the newbie mobs got more Regen only. We can be very sure now that one of the next VUs it will hit Argos, Drones, Longu, Atrax, Berycs and some more, too. We can only speculate if Snables, Exaro, Daikiban etc. will be spared.

And we can speculate about the consequences these changes will have for our little world - there is a change, it cannot be ignored. Beginning with the nerfing of the starter values, going on with the skill nerf, now with the "improving" of more and more beginner & middle class mobs, it becomes more and more difficult for new participants to establish with adequate costs.

Right, we as CND babies had it a lot harder, too, compared to the previous ones that enjoyed things in loot we'd only dream of, of possibilities for skilling closed long ago - but what the new participants today are suffering is at least equal, or more. I don't think I'd stay for very long, would I be forced to start today ...


It seems MA has lost interest in getting new participants. They don't do anything more about it, for instance at the Leipzig GC there was no "press work" at all - themes was broadly discussed like "Free-to-play-games" as a model for the future, the awaited "rise of the dragon" - the wast number of Chinese players expected now, or in-game Advertisements. All areas where MA would have something to show & to comment - but there wasn't a single mentioning of them to be found in the media.

I fear we're in a state of change - MA's interests might be ways beyond the welfare of our little world as we know it, they might aim for something complete different. For sure, todays heavy depositors & Ubers are important, they help to pay the transition, but in a longer or shorter time they'd be as unnecessary as todays newcomers.

Maybe we'd survive as "Scouts" for the rich business men from all over the world, that are populating the new planets, virtual ware houses and what ever they are planning - maybe we'd ever get some new dance emotions to earn a PED or two dancing nakey for 'em, showing some kind of forgotten culture ...

Have fun!

 

[Baradur]

I'm a seasoned molisk hunter.

I gave it a short test: the "adjusted" molisk / young - guardian total input 1500 ped.

This short test did not show any huge diff. in loottables..

° However:

young - adult molisks loot eye oil more often now then muscle oil.

I've looted a ccple of T-Rap amps (max tt 16 ped, MU 120-130%) they did not lootted it before.

They still drop mini's and or globals every given time interval...

Teeth drop plenty, currently I need more hunts to see if they drop in a bigger amount.... I noticed a bigger concentration of drops now and then (10 teeth in one molisk etc etc... need more study) I did not notice a bigger frequency.

° I have no proof yet:

The frequency of mini's seem lower...


What did I change in my behaviour:

° I use gnome now instead of pixie (I have a gut feeling the hit more often now, but that could just be a feeling)

° I use a faster weapon now (I used to hunt them with korss 380+102)..
I use korss h400 more often now...

+ I do not use om2100 as a finisher anymore, I prefer at least an opalo to finish them of.. for bigger maturities I use an unamped p3.


Conclusion,

For now I do not notice any significant difference.

Over and out,
BB

 

[Jimmy B]

the improved regeneration isn't the same for all hunters - killing one of these in a single shot from a big weapon would completely negate regeneration! Thus, if the loot would be improved for a fixed value, the Uber with his big gun would enjoy better eco, because the regeneration wouldn't even hit him.

Indeed, this is the point I was grumbling about lack of information on earlier. If loot has been increase a fixed amount then you need to kill them fast and quick, if loot has been increased in proportion to the amount it regenerates then you need to use an eco weapon.

The MA statement at the start of this thread, and the general evidence in favour of loot being related to damage done, and the small test I did on ambu, all lead me to guess it is the latter.

But I agree it could be clearer.

(don't agree with your following stuff about eco. eco would still be important, but with regards to your 'cost per damage' rather than 'cost per kill')

 

[AJack10600]

Ma would never introduce a loot logic that would favour you with big fat ass guns... that would be against the regen logic... they want you to spend more ped by wasting more amo... ---> decay quicker

 

[Xandra]

Hi,

(don't agree with your following stuff about eco. eco would still be important, but with regards to your 'cost per damage' rather than 'cost per kill')

need to think about. Yet found some flaws in my argumentation.

Wrote a long new starting of a thread for the "hunting" area, decided that my knowledge isn't adequate.

Would like to ask our "scientists" about this - how is loot really determined, and how does it work with the new regeneration? I'm watching the "hunting" subforum for this - feel free to enlighten me!

Have fun!