Mining Skills Matter Competition I

[wizzszz]

What

Screenies of CRUDE OIL claim deeds within the borders of Outback Land Area 44 (First Land area to the SOUTH of OSHIRI Hearts TP)

Why

I've dropped a gazzillion probes there, partially amped, and i NEVER found a single oil claim - but, i started enmatter mining with a higher pro standing from the higher Geo/CGA i had from oremining...

I've seen people with lower surveyor pro standing who found oil exactly in that place, thus i set up a little theory about "unlocking" certain enmatters and people below that pro standing will find oil as a substitute there...

Directly north of the LA border IS oil, but that's outside of the scope of this contest anyway.

Who

Everyone mining EnMatters, but very likely those who didn't pass level 20 in Surveyor yet may compete.

Where

Outback Land Area 44, within the Land Area borders

What

To qualify, post a screenie here in this thread that shows the following:

1. ingame timestamp visible in the chat window
2. open enmatter oil deed, showing the claim coords
3. said claim coords must be within the borders of OLA-44
4. open professions panel, showing your surveyor pro standing
5. a list of the enmatters you haven't found there prior to making the screenie out of this list (Typonolic Gas, Lytairian Powder, Azur Pearls, Lumis Leach, Henren Stems, Devils Tail) inside of the LA borders, not necessarily during the same run!

all 4 conditions have to be met, and displayed on the same screenie!

When

Competition starts with the posting of this thread (NOW!) and will close as soon as 100 valid entries have been posted, or when more than 4 weeks pass without a new entry.

Winner

Winner will be the person with the highest surveyor pro standing posting a screenie that meets all the criteria.

Up to 5 entries/member are allowed
(Each requires the pro standings panel on the screenie, and all must have a VISIBLE change of the pro standing level - at least 1 more pixel in the bar)

Prizes

• 5000 EFD from me
• 500 Senior EFD from me
• 500 EFD from Petley
• 250 EFD from GoNi
• 500 EFD from Kerham
• 500 EFD from Sheryo
• 1000 EFD from CycoKick
• 50 PED from me
• possible EFD donations from others

additional 500 Senior EFD will go to a random valid entry,
random number will be taken from here on a date 3 days after my official "contest closed" post.
(Random "Number of the day" will be used, last 4 digits modulo # of valid entries, entries numbered in the order of posting)

You are still reading?

Post questions here in this thread, donations to the prize pool are welcome (EFD & PED), maybe i will add some PED to the prize pool myself later on.

Please answer the poll, and check out my Mining Skills Matter Competition II thread.

Disclaimer

I do NOT profit in any way from the mining taxes on OLA-44, neither directly nor indirectly.

 

[wizzszz]

50 PED added to the prize pool!

 

[Petley]

I would like to see the results of this so i will donate 500 efd to the winner of this also.

 

[wizzszz]

I would like to see the results of this so i will donate 500 efd to the winner of this also.

Added to the prize pool, ty

 

[Wolverine Queen]

Did a small run.

2 oil hits





Havent found: Typonolic Gas, Lytairian Powder, Azur Pearls

 

[wizzszz]

Did a small run.

2 oil hits

Nice, the first 2 valid entries

This part needs clarification tho:

Havent found: Typonolic Gas, Lytairian Powder, Azur Pearls

Does that mean you found all of the enmatters listed below there?

Lumis Leach, Henren Stems, Devils Tail

Or have you found the ones in your list?

 

[Wolverine Queen]

Nice, the first 2 valid entries

This part needs clarification tho:



Does that mean you found all of the enmatters listed below there?

Lumis Leach, Henren Stems, Devils Tail

Or have you found the ones in your list?

Ohh dear, seems i had some kind of brain shutdown

Heres the real list:
Havent found:
Lumis Leach, Henren Stems, Devils Tail

 

[Sigzter]

I mined that LA before. Found all of them, except Crude Oil.

 

[wizzszz]

I mined that LA before. Found all of them, except Crude Oil.

That's exactly why i run this competition - i didn't find oil there, too...

Care to share your surveyor level?


500 EFD from Kerham &
500 EFD from Sheryo added to the prize pool!

Total now: 7250 EFD & 50 PED

 

[GoNi]

Back from a small run.

Found: Lytairan, Typo, Lumis, Azur

Didn´t find: Oil, Henren, Devils

Prof Standing: 16 Surveyer
Used Finder: Tik300 unamped

So nothing that qualify for this event so far

 

[Wolverine Queen]

Seems like im on the lead

When this ends?

 

[wizzszz]

Seems like im on the lead

When this ends?

Quote from the rules:

Competition ... will close as soon as 100 valid entries have been posted, or when more than 4 weeks pass without a new entry.

Plenty of time to do more entries - you can do up to 5...

but to improve your chances of winning (and for scientific reasons) i recommend to try to get some with a higher surveyor pro standing level.

 

[wizzszz]

*bump* ...is too short

 

[wizzszz]

c'mon, there are 50 PED to be won!

And a shitload EFD...

 

[wizzszz]

Do it for the PEDs, do it for science - just do it!

*bump*

 

[Jacxz]

I'd participate if i'd have a chance at winning
atm im 3lvls behind the person who already made an entry...

 

[Wolverine Queen]

I'd participate if i'd have a chance at winning
atm im 3lvls behind the person who already made an entry...

 

[wizzszz]

I'd participate if i'd have a chance at winning
atm im 3lvls behind the person who already made an entry...

You can definitely find oil there above level 6, so there is still room...

and mining skils give health, definitely worth skilling them up a bit.

And last but not least:
Everything else you can find there has a nice markup, more than enough to make up for the LA tax.


Oh, and i got a 355 PED lyta hof only few meters S of the LA last night, definitely a sign that the area is "hot" atm

 

[Danex]

I'll join in, I mine there all the time and have gotten all the resources, including oil. I'll post back when i get an oil claim.

 

[Leona]

Nice idea.

Imo the problem is: An "ore border" is just north of the LA going from west to east. Like all those borders, while pretty easy noticable, they are not 100% "sharp". It reaches some meters (50 to 100 at least) inside the LA along the north border.

I am pretty sure anyone can have an unlucky hit of oil inside this LA at any surveyor level as long as you stick along the north edge (especially east i have the feeling). Maybe more unlikely as bigger the finder is that one uses.

However, subscribing and waiting for an screenshot of an oil claim in the center or south. I could be wrong.

 

[wizzszz]

Another 1000 EFD added to the prize pool, thanks a lot, CycoKick!

Nice idea.

Imo the problem is: An "ore border" is just north of the LA going from west to east. Like all those borders, while pretty easy noticable, they are not 100% "sharp". It reaches some meters (50 to 100 at least) inside the LA along the north border.

I am pretty sure anyone can have an unlucky hit of oil inside this LA at any surveyor level as long as you stick along the north edge (especially east i have the feeling). Maybe more unlikely as bigger the finder is that one uses.

However, subscribing and waiting for an screenshot of an oil claim in the center or south. I could be wrong.

The "ore border" exactly matches the northern border of the LA (38067 / 38068), and claims within the LA are not oil because they are close to the border: As you may see on the first 2 posted entries (over 200 m south of the border), oil is everywhere within the LA, and south and east of it, too - below a certain level of surveyor (which to find out is the main objective of this thread)

There are more areas like this, where you find i.e. lyst, and once you reach a certain level in prospector, you suddenly find dianium and langotz - and not a single lyst claim anymore.
It might be area dependant, or kind of a substitute for "yet to be unlocked ores", who knows - i hope we get a bit closer to the truth with this thread.

But in any way, ressource borders are "sharp" - take my word for it - or i can happily prove it out "in the fields".

 

[Danex]

Nice idea.

Imo the problem is: An "ore border" is just north of the LA going from west to east. Like all those borders, while pretty easy noticable, they are not 100% "sharp". It reaches some meters (50 to 100 at least) inside the LA along the north border.

I am pretty sure anyone can have an unlucky hit of oil inside this LA at any surveyor level as long as you stick along the north edge (especially east i have the feeling). Maybe more unlikely as bigger the finder is that one uses.

However, subscribing and waiting for an screenshot of an oil claim in the center or south. I could be wrong.

Ya, all of my oil claims were in the north, close to the north eastern border

 

[Leona]

The "ore border" exactly matches the northern border of the LA (38067 / 38068), and claims within the LA are not oil because they are close to the border...

I think you are mistaken in this case. I am not saying it is totally impossible to find oil in the center or south of the LA (tho i doubt it).

What i am predicting is that oil claims in this LA close to the north border pop up now and then, even for skilled surveyor. And also that low skilled ones will unlikely find any oil far away from the north border.

The "ore border" exactly matches the northern border of the LA (38067 / 38068), and claims within the LA are not oil because they are close to the border: As you may see on the first 2 posted entries (over 200 m south of the border), oil is everywhere within the LA, and south and east of it, too - below a certain level of surveyor (which to find out is the main objective of this thread)

The 2 entries you got so far looking damn close to the north LA border to me. I said the ore border goes inside the LA 50 to 100 meters at least.

But in any way, ressource borders are "sharp" - take my word for it - or i can happily prove it out "in the fields".

I am not gonna argue with you about the "sharpness" of "ore borders" . I am not even an miner at all. But i am also not posting here on EF if i am not pretty certain about something.

There are more areas like this, where you find i.e. lyst, and once you reach a certain level in prospector, you suddenly find dianium and langotz - and not a single lyst claim anymore.
It might be area dependant, or kind of a substitute for "yet to be unlocked ores", who knows - i hope we get a bit closer to the truth with this thread.

.. or just the bigger finder you use with higher skills? or do you find langotz with the TT finder there then?

I like the idea of what you trying here. All i wanted is to point out that you will get flawed results:

You want to see the impact of skills on type of recources found?

If you want to test an theory you needa exclude the biggest flaws in the test environment at least, right?

Who

Everyone mining EnMatters, but very likely those who didn't pass level 20 in Surveyor yet may compete.

Why cap it at level 20? People at and above level 20 can find oil inside the LA... at the north border, at times! I not making that up, i know it.

Different skilled people with different finders:
Why don't you ask the higher skilled ones to use low (maybe even TT) finders if you interested in the effect of skills only?

Why don't you ask high skilled people do drop along the north border, best with small finder, to look for oil? Just claiming MA placed the ore border "sharp" and exactly at the north border isn't exactly scientific.

 

[Danex]

I am not sure i got all the info right, but i will post for science anyway!
-Danex

 

[wizzszz]

I think you are mistaken in this case. I am not saying it is totally impossible to find oil in the center or south of the LA (tho i doubt it).

I've seen proof for oil couple of meters N of the SE corner of the LA, so i don't base all this on assumptions.

What i am predicting is that oil claims in this LA close to the north border pop up now and then, even for skilled surveyor. And also that low skilled ones will unlikely find any oil far away from the north border.

And again, im telling you that this is just plain wrong - and i've dropped my fair share of probes, partially amped in and around that LA.

The 2 entries you got so far looking damn close to the north LA border to me. I said the ore border goes inside the LA 50 to 100 meters at least.

Ok, so you base your statements solely on those 2 screenies?
Moreover, the screenies are way more than just 50m south of the northern LA border: they are 254m and 298m from the N border of the LA (and maybe keep in mind that the size of the LA (S to N border) IS only 1600 meters, so center would be 800 meters from the N border - where exactly does your blurry border end then?

I am not gonna argue with you about the "sharpness" of "ore borders" . I am not even an miner at all. But i am also not posting here on EF if i am not pretty certain about something.

Means what exactly - you ARE sure of "ore borders" (as well as "enmatter borders" then, i guess) being NOT sharp?

I offered to prove it, and yes, i AM 100% sure - i don't understand why you dispute it, ask some other skilled miners, or just try it yourself.

What's the point of your statements when you base them on nothing but on educated guessing?

.. or just the bigger finder you use with higher skills? or do you find langotz with the TT finder there then?

No sure what to say on that - i guess you know the odds of finding rare ores with the TT tools... and that this is beyond of what i claimed.

I like the idea of what you trying here. All i wanted is to point out that you will get flawed results:

You want to see the impact of skills on type of recources found?

If you want to test an theory you needa exclude the biggest flaws in the test environment at least, right?

There are no flaws - and for sure not those you tried to point out, it simply doesn't work the way you see it - and (once again) i'll happily prove it.

Why cap it at level 20? People at and above level 20 can find oil inside the LA... at the north border, at times! I not making that up, i know it.

Simple - because of my own results there. Nobody above lvl 20 will find oil there.
But feel free to post a screenie of an oil deed within the LA borders from someone with a surveyor level of 20 or above.

Different skilled people with different finders:
Why don't you ask the higher skilled ones to use low (maybe even TT) finders if you interested in the effect of skills only?

Because it is already hard enough to find people willing to take part, more complicated rules = less participants.

I can't fully exclude the influence of the finder, but it's a start - feel free to start your own challenge - more data are always welcome.
For now, let's just assume that everyone will find a finder that roughly matches his/her skills - good enough for now.

Why don't you ask high skilled people do drop along the north border, best with small finder, to look for oil? Just claiming MA placed the ore border "sharp" and exactly at the north border isn't exactly scientific.

I claimed it because i can prove it - and i've done a lot of test myself there (and i am skilled enough to not find oil there anymore) - i just won't chip out my hand-skilled mining skills to prove that you will stop finding oil at a certain surveyor level: something that is 100% sure to me.

I appreciate every feedback, but there are a couple of (definitely wrong) assumptions in your posts. Maybe grab an enmatter finder and bomb W to E on the LA north border. Above a certain surveyor level, the oil claims will only pop up on the northern side.

And btw. - N of the LA border you can find ONLY oil and lyst - NOTHING else.
Go try it

And last but not least:
It's MY challenge, i run it - i define the rules
If you don't like it, don't compete - as far as i am concerned, the results to be posted here fully satisfy my needs for more data: there is no point in mining with a TT finder when you can use better tools.

/Edit:
And before we carry on with this: make sure that we are really talking about the same here - CLAIM coords, and NOT drop coords!!!
(you can i.e. drop inside of the LA and find oil outside, maybe thats what you meant by "not sharp")

 

[wizzszz]

I am not sure i got all the info right, but i will post for science anyway!
-Danex

Im sorry, but according to the rules, you have to post a screenie of the deed (the page with the exact coords) and the surveyor pro standing on the same screenie. (and the coords displayed in the chat window in the screenie are 38080 - thats still few meters N of the LA)

Hence the entry is not valid, i'm afraid.

However, if you can confirm the claim was within the LA borders (not clearly visible on the screenies), it might encourage higher skilled enmatter miners to give it a shot, thanks a lot for posting.

Keep trying, it shouldn't be too hard to find another one!

 

[Leona]

Whats your surveyor pro standing wizzszz?

 

[Leona]

Wizzszz, i will neg rep you for the attitude in your last post, well aware that it doesn't matter much with your rep bar and that i will most likely get quite some neg reps back as you seem an popular person here.

Looks like an overreaction thats why i feel the urge to explain in this post.

However, i will +rep as soon as i have spread enough because i really like the idea of what you trying here. Also you made me curious if i might be mistaken and so i entered your competition and you will see the result in my next post.

The reasons for the neg rep are:

You claim to do an test here, in the way of an competition. Thats cool! I was seriously interessted in the outcome and wanted to be helpfull pointing out two obvious flaws. I didn't say i am 100% right and i didn't want to argue with you (read my first post again please). Because of your reaction on my input i start to get the impression you are not really interested in proving or disproving your theory (read my post after my contest entry please) but doing this for other reasons.

You are twisting my words in every paragraph of your reply. You are getting defensive and trying to belittle my input instead of revising your test pattern:

I've seen proof for oil couple of meters N of the SE corner of the LA, so i don't base all this on assumptions.

Why you saying that? I didn't say you basing it on assumptions. What i said was that it is easy to find oil in the very north in the LA and very hard elsewhere. I took the time and did proof us both wrong as you can see from my next post: It is not an matter of skills it seems but an matter of the used finder.

And again, im telling you that this is just plain wrong - and i've dropped my fair share of probes, partially amped in and around that LA.

See, thats just really poor discussion style. I never would say you are mistaken when you say you can't find oil there. Because i couldn't know in the first place what you have found there! But i know what i found there.

Ok, so you base your statements solely on those 2 screenies?

Now it get's low . You refered to those 2 screenies in the first place and i just did reply to your post. I didn't base anything on those 2 screenies, actually i said: "However, subscribing and waiting for an screenshot of an oil claim in the center or south. I could be wrong." And yes, i still consider those 2 claims darn close to the north border , but it doesn't matter anymore as you can see from my next post.

I offered to prove it, and yes, i AM 100% sure - i don't understand why you dispute it, ask some other skilled miners, or just try it yourself.

What's the point of your statements when you base them on nothing but on educated guessing?

There is no need to lecture me in this way Our relevant prostanding seems to be about the same and what i posted here in this thread is based on the fact that i got them nearly all in this particula area. Not doubting you know the area well too though.

There are no flaws - and for sure not those you tried to point out, it simply doesn't work the way you see it - and (once again) i'll happily prove it.

, what kind of argument is this? But ok, i will challenge you on that later.

I appreciate every feedback, but there are a couple of (definitely wrong) assumptions in your posts. Maybe grab an enmatter finder and bomb W to E on the LA north border. Above a certain surveyor level, the oil claims will only pop up on the northern side.

It is not my impression that you appreciate every feedback. And like i said before, i don't suck my facts out of my left thumb. Of course it is first hand experience or i wouldn't post here this way.

And btw. - N of the LA border you can find ONLY oil and lyst - NOTHING else.

Here you go again . You keep claiming something as total fact just because you get that result. Have you probed that area with the biggest enmatter finder in game? But you don't need the biggest finder anyway. Whyle there is mainly oil and lyst for an miner at our level between the LA and the Outpost, it is very well possible to find other enmatters at least. You really jumping to conclusions way too fast from your own experience.

It's MY challenge, i run it - i define the rules
If you don't like it, don't compete

Yeah i see that an lot on the forum. Kinda "if you don't agree with me, stay out of my thread". I appreciate your efford for this contest, but you also claimed to test the effect of skills in mining. And i guess i am entitled to have an opinion on that and express it here? It is an public forum after all.

However, my -rep is not because i disagree with you but because you declare things as fact based on your experience and dismiss any input of different experience.

And yes, some will ask themself why i make such an big fuss out of it and "spoil" the competition. And you are right ... It is not about the event, the compedition itself.

It is just that i dislike it when someone claims to be "scientific" and then resists to revise his view despite obvious flaws.

 

[Leona]

Simple - because of my own results there. Nobody above lvl 20 will find oil there.
But feel free to post a screenie of an oil deed within the LA borders from someone with a surveyor level of 20 or above.

My entry:



approx. lvl 20,5 surveyor.

Probe dropped inside the LA, claim inside the LA.

Was the second claim with TT finder, i had an tiny typo claim before. In the past i found all enmatters listed in the OP.


However, i did try to proof myself wrong as well and searched for oil claims more south from the north border, with success as soon as i used an small finder again. I never used an TT finder in this area before for obvious reasons, but opposite to what the OP claims it does of course make sense for test purpose:



Dropped a bit here and there, with different finders and result was as i expected: With bigger finders you CAN now and then find oil there but hardly anywhere else then close to the northborder. With TT finder you can get oil anywhere in the LA, beside being at level 20.

 

[Leona]

Ok, lets see what we have so far and if i understood you right wizzszz.

You claim: Above an certain pro standing one doesn't get any of the "bad" ores / enmatters in certain areas but only the "good" ones? Thats due to skills (mainly?) and not due to better gear (finder)?
It is like unlocking an certain better ore at certain levels and other worser ores kinda dissapear from the list of findable ores?

Thats your theory we try to prove or disprove, right?

Thats imo an interessting theory and worth testing because to my knowledge the general opinion (and my opinion as well so far) is:

That it is the better finder you can use because of higher skills that makes it more likely to get the better ores. But still not impossible to get the bad ores (lyst at ~ 1000 meters in example as extreme case happens for high skilled miners).

So you want to challenge your own theory with this contest?

What escapes me is why you want to send 100 of low skilled players in an taxed LA to prove what you already knew: that those will find oil there?

You claim as fact that with lvl 20 and above one can not find any oil in this LA due too skills. Well, thats already disproven. But, am i totally mistaken when i say your approach should have looked kinda like this:

Finding the highest skilled surveyor who can still find oil in that area with TT finder beside his skills. Because if an let's say lvl 40, lvl 50 miner finds oil there then you know there is no need to test it with miners lvl 20 and below for weeks or months even (beside, again, you already knew anyway they will find oil!).

You could then close this particular theory (high level miners will not find oil in this LA) as disproven and head on?