Question: How much Turnover does it need to get from Wounding to Killstrike?

[Immortal]

I agree that my poll is really messed up. However I also find it interrestning to read how messed up the ideas of what turnover it takes to get from wounding to KS are. After all most ppl here seem to think that it needs AT LEAST 2mil PED cycled to get to KS but you go for 1.2M. That`s quite nice because you`ve taken the step allready didn`t you?

EDIT: OK when i check your icons maybe it`s just close but at least lvl 70 I would guess?
Thus you should allready have a better idea about it in comparison to some others.

yes I am above 70 dmg. I have tracked all expenditure since level 38 dmg in LB, and I usually hunt fairly large HP mobs (500-2500). 1kped/day for 18months is enough to get to this level - doubling it should get you quite easily over level 80, and doubling it again should see you comfortably above level 100

 

[XeroX2]

yes I am above 70 dmg. I have tracked all expenditure since level 38 dmg in LB, and I usually hunt fairly large HP mobs (500-2500). 1kped/day for 18months is enough to get to this level - doubling it should get you quite easily over level 80, and doubling it again should see you comfortably above level 100

yeah thank you for providing the numbers and I think they are the most realistic guess so far. (if you don`t camp merp or LT all the way )

 

[Atraie]

So what you where saying that wounding-KS is ~2M ped turnover right? Or your level-KS is 2M PED?
Anyway so far it seems that 2million PED is the most common guess to get to KS starting @ lvl 45. Would be nice if more ppl could second that or give other opinions tho because I would like to know now hard the challenge would be if I dare to accept it.

Ya i ment 2 mill from 45 to 80.

Ive been tracking every pec for hunting since early 2008. Before that i did very little hunting, so i have the majority of it tracked. I dont remember my exact skill level when i started tracking, but it was well before my first combat related unlock. 169,702 ped is what i have since i started trackign to combat sense, and i estimate its more like 175-180k total adding in what i didnt track. Coolness to combat sense ended up being 109441.87ped cycled(thats run after cooless to run including combat sense....but wont be accurate to the pec since i didnt end the runs on the unlock, but the were near the end of those runs) I was at 151799.91 when i hit wounding, if i add in the same estimate for what wasnt tracked thats 157-172k ped.

Using those points and a skill->tt value calculator for relative difference in skill levels...

0->50 @180000ped vs 50->80 = 6.42 times as much skilling,= 1.15M more ped
40->50 @ 109400ped vs 50->80 = 11.82 times as much skilling = 1.3M more ped

0->45 @ 170000ped vs 45->80 = 9.9 times as much skilling = 1.68M more ped

Edit: forgot that first and 3rd estimate have 3x and 2x skill events in them. The middle one does not.

--------

As you can see the estimates aren't consistent at all. So at best they can be used as a guess at low precision. What and how you hunt will also drastically influence it.(my numbers are mostly on things that take ~1 ped to kill)

I still think 2M is a fair estimate for 45->80.

Will be interesting to revisit my numbers when i hit commando....but thats going to take at least a few years! Kill strike isnt even on my horizon atm.

Also keep in mind, the halfway point to kill strike is ~69 by TT value. So the halfway point is roughly = unlocking commando.

 

[WoenK]

yes I am above 70 dmg. I have tracked all expenditure since level 38 dmg in LB, and I usually hunt fairly large HP mobs (500-2500). 1kped/day for 18months is enough to get to this level - doubling it should get you quite easily over level 80, and doubling it again should see you comfortably above level 100

As far as I saw, 2 years ago you were at almost the same level I am now.
How long did it take you to get there and how many skill nerfs did you go through ?
How many skills are chipped ?

Can't put my thumb on it, but somehow if I look at those starting before 2008, they had quite an advantage in skilling. I know there was a skill nerf in the beginning of 2007 and that it got quite tougher afterwards, but somehow there seems to be quite a gap between those starting August 2007 and January 2008.
(could be just a wrong perception by me...maybe I should really do a cycle test on Merps )

 

[Leona]

Can't put my thumb on it, but somehow if I look at those starting before 2008, they had quite an advantage in skilling. I know there was a skill nerf in the beginning of 2007 and that it got quite tougher afterwards, but somehow there seems to be quite a gap between those starting August 2007 and January 2008.
(could be just a wrong perception by me...maybe I should really do a cycle test on Merps )

Just perception, nothing changed in that timespan (August 2007 to January 2008 in hunting skill gains).

It is easy to underestimate how much turn over some people have, and also easy to overestimate ones own turnover.

 

[WoenK]

Just perception, nothing changed in that timespan (August 2007 to January 2008 in hunting skill gains).

It is easy to underestimate how much turn over some people have, and also easy to overestimate ones own turnover.

ok, maybe really perception. Just find it somehow odd, that people that started half a year before me seem to be way higher skilled than people that started at the same time or after me. Immortal is surely cycling a lot and has been pushing hard from the beginning, with that mindset anything is possible in a short timeframe.
But where are those that started 2009 have over 80 AGI (without missions) and unlocked Killstrike or are at least close to it ? Can't be that they are all a lazy bunch like me and expect that unlock in 12 to 18 months.
There have to be some that also want to get ahead fast and do it natural, no matter the costs. If it is possible to unlock Kilstrike then someone must have managed it within two years.
Or are those simply not bragging about it here ?

 

[Atraie]

Whats the highest decay---reasonably available---weapon? Id say its probably a XT+evil amp. Lets assume someone used that from 0->80 and didn't care about using an unmaxed weapon for more then half of it...

Lets assume a XT+evil amp. 0.3432 ped/second, to cycle 2 million ped = 5,827,500 seconds = 1619 hours. Assume 8 hours a day, and assume you can shoot 85% of the time(you cant shoot at 100%, takes time to switch mobs, loot,repair, run/tp, take a piss, etc) = 240 days, at 6 hours a day its 320 days.

Its possible to do it in 1 year... Id hate to see their return %.... Might as well just chip for less $.

 

[Immortal]

As far as I saw, 2 years ago you were at almost the same level I am now.
How long did it take you to get there and how many skill nerfs did you go through ?
How many skills are chipped ?

Can't put my thumb on it, but somehow if I look at those starting before 2008, they had quite an advantage in skilling. I know there was a skill nerf in the beginning of 2007 and that it got quite tougher afterwards, but somehow there seems to be quite a gap between those starting August 2007 and January 2008.
(could be just a wrong perception by me...maybe I should really do a cycle test on Merps )

I think the difference is motivation. For example I beat Oleg to commando(not to single him out, but I know he won't take offense ), and I switched weapons 4 times before settling on LB - even managed to keep hunting on no desposit (thanks to a lucky loot) during the global economy crisis. THe only time i've even bothered with small mobs is for the iron missions, and before that I did a couple of hours on tants during triple skills robot-wars. But I think Oleg will tell you he got the hunting bug in him (motivation) when that finish line was in sight.

To answer your questions:
How long did it take you to get there and how many skill nerfs did you go through ?
I hunted for 1kped/day as a minimum as a rule. If the loot was good I would typically hunt more. The best stats I had with my 68dps weapon was 1kped in 2hrs 5mins.
Skills bonus periods: There were two periods of skill increase, Robot Wars 2008 (3x skill) and mid-sga (2x skill)
Level 38 dmg to 70 dmg in approx 18months, with at least 2 months break from EU in between.
(unrelated) Instant skill increase from having 2600 Psychotropy - Tripled this skill when MF update introduced



How many skills are chipped ?
Next to none. I bought maybe 100ped of anatomy for 200ped (trading esi's) plus a few erroneous health skills a year or more ago - recently chipped out about 250peds of LB.

prior-current residual damage skills
IMD 1.5k-5.5k
MC 3k-7k
MDA 2.4k-7k
wounding 4.5k-7k
Anatomy 6.9k-9k
Total skills 177k -282k
Total TT 4764-14614

Or are those simply not bragging about it here ?

To be able to do that you either need to be very patient, very lucky, or have a lot of time and a lot of ped. There is a limit you reach at 2k-3kped a day where the stuff you usually sell on auction doesn't sell fast enough to maintain your pedcard for the next hunt - so you either need to be making positive TT all the time, or switch gears. It's tough but not impossible.

 

[Leona]

But where are those that started 2009 have over 80 AGI (without missions) and unlocked Killstrike or are at least close to it ? Can't be that they are all a lazy bunch like me and expect that unlock in 12 to 18 months.
There have to be some that also want to get ahead fast and do it natural, no matter the costs. If it is possible to unlock Kilstrike then someone must have managed it within two years.
Or are those simply not bragging about it here ?

Anybody who did enough turnover to go from zero to KS naturally in the last 2 years you would find in the All Time TOP 20 tracker spots (that covers about the last 2 years). As most of those are older avatars it doesn't look like if there is someone insane enough to try that.

Beside that i don't understand your point i am afraid. To get from zero to KS in 2 years one would need to shoot a 90 dmg/sec gun from the very start and hunt like 3 to 4 hours a day at full speed or more like 8 to 12 hours including fapping, reviving, loot sale.... Certainly doable, but what would be the point?

I think the point here is that you might underestimate how much time some people spend in game and how highly efficient they use that time if they are skill fanatics.

Take a P5a and 3 or 4 A-amps and go out and hunt 12 to 18 hours a day, focus on good dense spawns and mobs you don't need to fap. Every now and then you will have a bad ass melt down and need a few days or weeks break, but you will manage commando in 2 to 3 years and KS in 3 to 4 years.
And if you think no one is insane enough to do that then you are badly mistaken.

But usually things go a bit different, the first one to two years even the most hardcore grinder produces relatively little turnover due to weapon limitations. You hunt a lot and also skills seems to progress quite nice, but measured in TT volume of skills the contribution is rather small.

 

[Parlog]

4.6k + 4.7k + 4.8k + 4.9k + 5k + 5.1k + 5.2k + 5.3k... 7.8k + 7.9k + 8k

= 220500Ped and thats just ammo, so maybe its 500k ped total turnover with all decay, latest sib-guns (+MU) and stuff, just naive fallacy, but i think its not so far off the truth

 

[Dollymaus]

4.6k + 4.7k + 4.8k + 4.9k + 5k + 5.1k + 5.2k + 5.3k... 7.8k + 7.9k + 8k

the skill progression went down a lot faster since:

4000 Skills --->70 Ped tt
5000 skills----->150 Ped
6000-- -->311
7000--->608
8000--->1116
9000--->1782

aprox doubled every 10 level

 

[Oleg]

I think the difference is motivation. For example I beat Oleg to commando(not to single him out, but I know he won't take offense ), and I switched weapons 4 times before settling on LB - even managed to keep hunting on no desposit (thanks to a lucky loot) during the global economy crisis. THe only time i've even bothered with small mobs is for the iron missions, and before that I did a couple of hours on tants during triple skills robot-wars. But I think Oleg will tell you he got the hunting bug in him (motivation) when that finish line was in sight.

I take offence!

Seriously though, I think this is mostly true - I probably gained as much skill volume in my 4th year in EU as I did in my previous 3 (3 years to get a little over Combat Sense, one more year to hit Commando, approximately).

I wouldn't say that my motivation is the only thing that changed. I did make a conscious decision around mid-2009 to dedicate more time to EU and to try maximise the amount of hunting I was doing in that time, but I've also been able to hunt more since then because of a change in play style and because of better skills/gear.

On the other hand, if you look at the reasons why I changed those things, that was perhaps down to motivation too.

You can't ignore the question of budget either - I'm pretty sure I deposited a lot less than Imm on my way to Commando, which is definitely one of the key reasons why I made relatively slow progress, in the first two years in particular. Being able to make the PEDs last longer, or even indefinitely, made a huge difference to me.

 

[Parlog]

the skill progression went down a lot faster since:

4000 Skills --->70 Ped tt
5000 skills----->150 Ped
6000-- -->311
7000--->608
8000--->1116
9000--->1782

aprox doubled every 10 level

true but the size of weapons, read the expenses per shot, rises accordingly if you always use the best sibweapon you can handle.

 

[Wolverine Queen]

true but the size of weapons, read the expenses per shot, raises accordingly if you always use the best sibweapon you can handle.

I would like to know, how long would it would take from lvl0 to lvl50 using MM+a204

Eco is for poor ppl

 

[Parlog]

I would like to know, how long would it would take from lvl0 to lvl50 using MM+a204

Eco is for poor ppl

dunno, never used a MM, but i expect this takes only a few days if you have the time and peds to waste.

 

[Wolverine Queen]

dunno, never used a MM, but i expect this takes only a few days if you have the time and peds to waste.

Uh wat, days?

 

[Bonebr3aker]

dunno, never used a MM, but i expect this takes only a few days if you have the time and peds to waste.

yeah.... right.


This thread delivers!

 

[Atraie]

I would like to know, how long would it would take from lvl0 to lvl50 using MM+a204

Eco is for poor ppl

mm+a204 = 0.2843595 ped/second

If you use 200k for 0->50, and assume 8 hours a day shooting 85% of the time thats 29 days. 39 days at 6 hours per day.

p5a+104 = 0.11404 ped/sec = 72 days. 96 days at 6 hours per day.

Of course no sensible person would use these weapons at 0 skill level which would make things take a lot longer!

 

[Parlog]

Uh wat, days?

With MM you got no slow shooting because of sib, more than 14times more ammo/decay spent per shot than on opalo and cb5 and its almost twice as fast, you also skill if you miss, so your HA is kinda irrelevant in this calculation. Thats about 25 times faster to reach level 5 (where cb5 is maxed). So usually you need like 10-12 hours straight shooting to max the cb5 from zero (argh i cant compare to tt laser hg, but MM seems to be like 50 or more times faster than this, so lets stick to the CB5 example). I bet with MM+A204 you can make it from zero to level 5 in under 1 hour. So level 50 should take a few days only.

yeah.... right.


This thread delivers!

oh yes! Lets talk about money spent: From what i know you can cycle 1k ped per hour with MM A204. Straight shooting its about 1.465k ped but you know and i know this is not going to happen if you dont have "sheppards" to bring you a constant flow of mob and enough A204 amps to change in a sec.
24,42ped/min x 60 = 1465,44ped/hour is the calculation for the MM so ~1k ped/hour is realistic.

In the same time you shoot about 60 ped away with cb5. So since you dont have that constant shooting, its only ~43ped per hour.

So to max a cb5 in 12 hours you need to shoot about ~514 Ped
while its about 12k ped in 12 hours for MM A204, again we are about 24-25times faster and havent even taken into consideration yet, that at no time during those first 12 hours you shoot your cb5 at max speed.

It doesnt take long to level 50 with MM+A104 but the losses from nib-HA and nib-dmg should be around 30% if not more. Thats at least 3.6k ped loss alone by beeing nib in those first 12 hours shooting MM.
Btw you should have reached level 20-25 hit/dmg by then. Not sure but chance is high that your skills are worth about the same.

3 maybe 4 days to reach level 50 with MM A204 for about 12-15k ped loss total by beeing nib only. I find that still a very good ratio + your nib-loss constantly lowers, in the 40s your nib-loss lowered to like 15-20%. 12k ped is what your skills should be worth by then, so chance is not so far off, that you turn out close to even out.

Is anyone insane enough to try that out?

 

[GoNi]

Calculate your turnowver with a maxed HL-20 + Sheer Pro600 and the PED/hour cycled are more than MM

Well not that eco, but damn fast !

 

[Parlog]

Calculate your turnowver with a maxed HL-20 + Sheer Pro600 and the PED/hour cycled are more than MM

Well not that eco, but damn fast !

thats wrong since the sib of HL20 starts at level 67, and before you only have 25 (26?) shots per min at half max dmg and half minimum dmg what reduces the skillup-rate significantly

( -- uhh nevermind -- ) you said maxed, but we spoke about level 0-50

 

[GoNi]

( -- uhh nevermind -- ) you said maxed, but we spoke about level 0-50

yeah, but this thread is about unlocking killstrike

So on topic, the HL-20 would be a real speeder

 

[XeroX2]

( -- uhh nevermind -- ) you said maxed, but we spoke about level 0-50

yeah we are talkinig about lvl 45-80 here only please. No offense tho

 

[Leona]

Ok, XeroX2 i try to make an strict on topic post.

First option: Doer made an progress calculator once: http://esi.coolinc.info/progress.cgi

I don't think it is maintained at the moment with all the new and changed skill names. But it might at least work with the classic professions except MF.

So as you are at approx. level 45 (?) you save a skill set with Jdegres scanner and then do at least 1K active* costs turnover. Then you take a skill snap shot again and use the tool.

* active costs = ammo, gun decay without MU, amp decay. All those 3 parts contribute to attack skill gains (actually seems to be based on the damage dealt but thats another discussion)

Second option: If that does not work we beg or bribe Doer to update the calculator.

Third option: If that does not work we beg or bribe Jdegre to make an new progress calculator.

Forth option: We could simply compare relevant TT volume of skills from an lvl 45 dmg avatar and an lvl 80 avatar. Then multiply the TT difference by 100 and would have an fairly good estimation of Peds turn over needed for the progress.

But i can already tell you the difference will be in the 15 to 20K Ped TT value range for natural skilled avatars, and that means about 2 million peds turnover.

Just as example my combat related skills are 26850 TT, thats 92+ in both Laser and BLP though. So lets subtract the TT value of BLP and Rifle, Melee and some other stuff and assume i would have just skilled Laser Pistol and we end with approx. 22800 TT in general combat and contributing to Laser Pistoleer skills. Now the difference between level 80 and level 92 is not that big at least for damage professions as a good junk is contributed by KS. But lets say 20k for an level 80 avatar.

Now i might be wrong, but i guess at level 45 avatar has what 3 or 4K TT skills in hunting skills? Someone can confirm please?

So we have an very very rough estimation that shows that a turnover of at least 1.6 million must be done.

Btw. i estimate the turnover i will need from 92 to 100 at about 600k, just to give a picture.

Edit: Ah, and it is said the turnover to skill from zero to 100 in one category is approx. 3.3 million. If thats true then our figures work out more or less.

 

[WoenK]

Now i might be wrong, but i guess at level 45 avatar has what 3 or 4K TT skills in hunting skills? Someone can confirm please?

Must be quite a bit lower than 3k. All my skills are around 3900 TT and I am at level 55 Laser Pistols, level 45 ist about 1k TT less. If I would chip out Laser pistols completely it would be worth just 2k TT.

 

[XeroX2]

Ok, XeroX2 i try to make an strict on topic post.

First option: Doer made an progress calculator once: http://esi.coolinc.info/progress.cgi

I don't think it is maintained at the moment with all the new and changed skill names. But it might at least work with the classic professions except MF.

So as you are at approx. level 45 (?) you save a skill set with Jdegres scanner and then do at least 1K active* costs turnover. Then you take a skill snap shot again and use the tool.

* active costs = ammo, gun decay without MU, amp decay. All those 3 parts contribute to attack skill gains (actually seems to be based on the damage dealt but thats another discussion)

Second option: If that does not work we beg or bribe Doer to update the calculator.

Third option: If that does not work we beg or bribe Jdegre to make an new progress calculator.

Forth option: We could simply compare relevant TT volume of skills from an lvl 45 dmg avatar and an lvl 80 avatar. Then multiply the TT difference by 100 and would have an fairly good estimation of Peds turn over needed for the progress.

But i can already tell you the difference will be in the 15 to 20K Ped TT value range for natural skilled avatars, and that means about 2 million peds turnover.

Just as example my combat related skills are 26850 TT, thats 92+ in both Laser and BLP though. So lets subtract the TT value of BLP and Rifle, Melee and some other stuff and assume i would have just skilled Laser Pistol and we end with approx. 22800 TT in general combat and contributing to Laser Pistoleer skills. Now the difference between level 80 and level 92 is not that big at least for damage professions as a good junk is contributed by KS. But lets say 20k for an level 80 avatar.

Now i might be wrong, but i guess at level 45 avatar has what 3 or 4K TT skills in hunting skills? Someone can confirm please?

So we have an very very rough estimation that shows that a turnover of at least 1.6 million must be done.

Btw. i estimate the turnover i will need from 92 to 100 at about 600k, just to give a picture.

Edit: Ah, and it is said the turnover to skill from zero to 100 in one category is approx. 3.3 million. If thats true then our figures work out more or less.

OK I just made a skill file with jdegres tool and I`ll make a new group in my EU Hunter tool logs for one full tt hl6(l) and post the data I get here. Then I create another skill file. I`ll also try to use the website you mentioned... but I hope someone else can do the math for me. I hate maths.

 

[Nybras]

but I hope someone else can do the math for me. I hate maths.

Hm...i may be wrong...but you started this thread about math, not?

 

[Leona]

Hm...i may be wrong...but you started this thread about math, not?

No, he just wanted to know how much turnover it needs from 45 to 80. He didn't say he want to do maths on it.

It is reasonable to expect that the community knows such things. As we can see from most replies we have at least an clue about the range (not 200k but rather 2 mio is pretty much the consensus i think).

Yes XeroX2, if you post skill sets before and after an run and keep track of the turnover we have something to work with.

 

[WoenK]

OK I just made a skill file with jdegres tool and I`ll make a new group in my EU Hunter tool logs for one full tt hl6(l) and post the data I get here. Then I create another skill file. I`ll also try to use the website you mentioned... but I hope someone else can do the math for me. I hate maths.

actually you do not have to do much maths if you hvae registred at jdgre.
You do on skill scan, save it to his page, do another after the 1k cycled, load the previous scan from his page and you see how much you earned where.
Quite easy and he only asks for a small contribution for a lifetime account
(and you also get an awesome sig with your skilldata )

 

[XeroX2]

No, he just wanted to know how much turnover it needs from 45 to 80. He didn't say he want to do maths on it.

It is reasonable to expect that the community knows such things. As we can see from most replies we have at least an clue about the range (not 200k but rather 2 mio is pretty much the consensus i think).

Yes XeroX2, if you post skill sets before and after an run and keep track of the turnover we have something to work with.

What exactly do you mean with "skill sets"? And how should i post that? Just copy+paste the file I got from skill scanner?