Fellow Entropians.......

[valentin]

Fellow Entropians,

But then the truth.....
Sub-company to MA runs a business called Planet Calypso MA has tried to sell it ( this would have meant that they had lost ownership of the planet ) for a long time for 6 milioner dollars and failed, as we know as you know MA takes a profit from the planet and have a lootpool for os players.

Now MA dont want to sell the Planet Calypso, instead they are selling 60,000 land deeds which has the same value as they tryed to sell it but they retain their ownership of Planet Calypso.

So this means that they have retained their ownership of the planet but at the same time received the 6 milioner U.S. dollars they would have received if they sold the Planet Calypso.

Now, MA decided that all owners of the land deeds should get paid a certain sum for this may also be called as ROI and the ROI is at 28%, now we have to ask os where do this money come from profit or the lootpool --> its coming from the lootpool so MA ceeps all the profit.

So this means that we players are double fucket from MA.

So the new payback from the lootpool will not be 90% back it will be about 62% back.

 

[das]

You should read some 101-math books b4 making statements like this in public

 

[johan roadkill]

If you are abused over and over don't expect any treats

 

[Corey 'Greyfox']

Okay let me explain(because it hasn't been explained at least a dozen times already)
First their was MA
Then MA wanted to focus on platform and systems so the split the Calypso dev team into a Company called FPC.
SEE offered to buy FPC and changed the name to SDS
SEE could not make the payments, so MA reposesed Calypso and all related
The new company for Calypso is called AR Universe
The land deeds are in effect shares in AR universe

 

[Artrat]

Yaaaaawwwwwwnnnnnnn.

MA has promised financial information to back up the CLD payouts. If they fail to produce those then start spouting crazy theories.

A lot of you guys have been on this forum longer than me, do you not remember that there were just as many loot-whine threads 3 years ago?

NOTHING HAS CHANGED!

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills ffs.

 

[das]

Here's a free tip from me valy..

Don't argo +5 aurli's at the same time in d4.. if someone globals next to you, it's asking to loose your ass off

 

[Stave]

The income of a planet is split in half between ma and the company that runs the planet. AR Universe operate calypso, 50% of what aru gets is used for development, the other 50% goes to land deed owners

 

[billairboy]

Now, MA decided that all owners of the land deeds should get paid a certain sum for this may also be called as ROI and the ROI is at 28%, now we have to ask os where do this money come from profit or the lootpool --> its coming from the lootpool so MA ceeps all the profit.

It pretty simple,they take the money from the money the buyer of Calypso shoule have had, not any loot pool. Or to make it even more simple, for a player on Rocktropia some money goes to Rocktropia some to MA. On Calypso some money goes to MA, some goes to the land deed holders. Any queastions?

 

[Wollongong]

I would be quite curious as to how you reached the conclusion CLD payments came from the lootpool and not from the revenues MA takes in. Because if you are right...then MA/FPC has been lying all the time, and you are basically accusing them of fraud. Quite a harsh accusation. If true, please, present evidence, and I am sure a lot of CLD owners will press charges against MindArk.

But if you have no such evidence, and are just being uninformed... then please, state that this is the case, so I can stop having sleepless nights due to the worries.

Fellow Entropians,

But then the truth.....
Sub-company to MA runs a business called Planet Calypso MA has tried to sell it ( this would have meant that they had lost ownership of the planet ) for a long time for 6 milioner dollars and failed, as we know as you know MA takes a profit from the planet and have a lootpool for os players.

Now MA dont want to sell the Planet Calypso, instead they are selling 60,000 land deeds which has the same value as they tryed to sell it but they retain their ownership of Planet Calypso.

So this means that they have retained their ownership of the planet but at the same time received the 6 milioner U.S. dollars they would have received if they sold the Planet Calypso.

Now, MA decided that all owners of the land deeds should get paid a certain sum for this may also be called as ROI and the ROI is at 28%, now we have to ask os where do this money come from profit or the lootpool --> its coming from the lootpool so MA ceeps all the profit.

So this means that we players are double fucket from MA.

So the new payback from the lootpool will not be 90% back it will be about 62% back.

 

[ermik]

a cld is nothing more than a virtual item, that gives your avatar a small % of the revenue stream leaving the game and going to MA´s pockets.

you dont get a thing , your avatar gets a virtual currency, in no way related to IRL money other than the fact that when you deposit money, or ask MA to get some of your money back, they use the USD as base for the conversion.

why are people still refering to cld´s as if they were shares ? as if they had any legal meaning irl at all?

 

[mastermesh]

a cld is nothing more than a virtual item, that gives your avatar a small % of the revenue stream leaving the game and going to MA´s pockets.

you dont get a thing , your avatar gets a virtual currency, in no way related to IRL money other than the fact that when you deposit money, or ask MA to get some of your money back, they use the USD as base for the conversion.

why are people still refering to cld´s as if they were shares ? as if they had any legal meaning irl at all?

because MA created this exchange rate of 1 USD = 10 PED. It's not a 'legal' exchange rate, but it's the rate that they've established. Whether it'd hold up in court or not - probably not, but yet to be determined.

 

[Stave]

why are people still refering to cld´s as if they were shares ? as if they had any legal meaning irl at all?

TBH i see them not too diffrent to owning a land area, only you dont need to do anything for the ingame income it generates...

 

[thoreau]

Now, MA decided that all owners of the land deeds should get paid a certain sum for this may also be called as ROI and the ROI is at 28%, now we have to ask os where do this money come from profit or the lootpool --> its coming from the lootpool so MA ceeps all the profit.

I don't think MA takes the ROI from the loot pool.

I think they make new PEDs for the purpose of paying the ROI.

 

[SpikeBlack]

well I thought it was a 25% share of the revenue Calypso generates before any costs are taken out.

e.g. if the players generate 1Mped of planet revenue then the clds gets 250,000ped, no running costs are removed before the split. This was confirmed in the numerous threads we've already had.

MA are banking on the fact that very little of the ped will ever get withdrawn. The ped cycles around and around, each time MA paying it out and getting it back again with a small drain on it from those players able to withdraw.

In theory they only need enough ped to make one payment run. Make the payment on the Monday and get it all back by the following Sunday.

As I've said before the best way to make ped on the cld's is to buy a load and never play

 

[Audrey Cheerful]

As I've said before the best way to make ped on the cld's is to buy a load and never play

Or have enough CLDs to finance your playing and have something left.

 

[SpikeBlack]

If you've bought them as in investment which at 30% return is bloody high compared to the 1-2% from high interest bank accounts then the best option is to withdraw it and not spend a pec.

If the minimum to withdraw is 1000ped and you want to withdraw that each month then a $4000 investment is more than enough provided they keep near the 30%. Judging from what some people spend playing that wouldn't last more than a few days, its only a $100 deposit afterall (plus fees). Wait three years and you'll be in profit.

Obviously you've got loses with withdrawl though , MA's handling fees and the currency conversion but even if that means you only get $80 per month its better than a bankaccount. Provided you trust MA as you've got no guarantee on that cash as the deeds have only a nominal tt value, if they were to go under you would lose the lot even if were the day after you bought them compared to bank where your cash is reasonably safe.

Of course you'd be screwed completely if MA let players leave Calypso.

 

[Corey 'Greyfox']

a cld is nothing more than a virtual item, that gives your avatar a small % of the revenue stream leaving the game and going to MA´s pockets.

you dont get a thing , your avatar gets a virtual currency, in no way related to IRL money other than the fact that when you deposit money, or ask MA to get some of your money back, they use the USD as base for the conversion.

why are people still refering to cld´s as if they were shares ? as if they had any legal meaning irl at all?

Each CLD you buy gives you a SHARE of the companie income, hence a share.

 

[ermik]

Each CLD you buy gives you a SHARE of the companie income, hence a share.

no, your avatar ( wich you dont own, MA does but they let us use em wich is nice ) buy a CLD, and get ped inserted on ped card each monday.

Cant get any more virtual than that my friend, no connection whatsoever with the real world , the real world company MA or the company currently running calypso.

 

[humanwoman]

CLD are shares with zero nominal value, so MA just took your money in exchange of mere promise of 30% ROI without any back up for that.

Keep in mind, even that can be changed or cancelled any time without even notifying you, according to EULA.

Now, if you would put the money you spent on CLD as a bank term deposit IRL, under say 7% interest, you'd roughly get 30% profit after four years.

If you spent it on CLD, you will also get 30% profit after four years (three years to get your money back plus 30% profit during the fourth year), thus breaking even with RL investment.

So your crazy 30% profit (outrunning RL deposits) will only start coming in the year five, that is 2016.

If you look around, you won't see the world economy thriving exactly, so if you really think a tiny company like MA running a very small online gambling-like game will pull off 30% (or more) profit in this circumstances for 5 years in a row - good luck.
(IMHO, if they were able to pull off 30% profit during their first 10 years of existence, they wouldn't be so desperate to ask their own player base for money)

You say: "I can sell CLD any time if it smells badly". Yes, you can, but not any time, not to TT, tt price is zero. You need to find another buyer, that is a person who'd like to invest RL money in the game and pass it to you in exchange on CLD. Again, if you are sure you'll find one after a few years, and they will pay you the amount you gave away to MA - good luck.

Not to mention, in this case you'd create a pure Ponzi scheme, making some money on CLD while it lasts and then foisting it off to the next guy and so on, with the last guy in the chain actually paying for everyone.

All in all, if it was a fair deal, every CLD would have 1k PED TT price and you could buy and sell it like any other normal share. The catch here is that once you invest in CLD, your money get locked up for four years - if, and that is a big if - MA will deliver what has been promised. Or you sell it and hook up another guy, MA seems to be happy with that.

Also, keep in mind that normally, when you buy shares, you are not the part of the company's target audience. The company is making money on something/somebody else, you get a share of that profit.

With CLD, you are the target audience, your extra profit from CLD comes from the players deposits, including your own deposits.

If every player in the game bought the same number of shares, no one would get extra profit because of shares.

So your extra profit comes only from dis-balance of CLD distribution among players. This also doesn't work to your advantage.

 

[Corey 'Greyfox']

no, your avatar ( wich you dont own, MA does but they let us use em wich is nice ) buy a CLD, and get ped inserted on ped card each monday.

Cant get any more virtual than that my friend, no connection whatsoever with the real world , the real world company MA or the company currently running calypso.

Virtual currency that can be changed for real currency. Not unlike having a balance on a credit card, the money does not exist until you take some money off the card. Most money exists only in digital form

 

[Leona]

Fellow Entropians,

But then the truth.....

Did i just get a glimpse into the level of logic and mathematics behind some of those 'i get 30% return on average' posts?

 

[ermik]

Virtual currency that can be changed for real currency. Not unlike having a balance on a credit card, the money does not exist until you take some money off the card. Most money exists only in digital form

the difference is huge, have you read the EULA ?

 

[Joker]

Fellow Entropians,


So the new payback from the lootpool will not be 90% back it will be about 62% back.

I am getting 20-50% on average

soo 62% might be too high

interesting fact...

Madoffs was safe till he offered too high returns...
He was busted for offering 12% returns... when no other funds could offer such high returns...
Allen Stanford offered around 10% returns...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madoff_investment_scandal

wonder how long they would have lasted if they offered 30% returns

not comparing entropia to a fund or a ponzi...
just saying... if returns are comparable... and 12% is too high or as stated "too good to be true"
wonder where 30% comes in at

 

[Leona]

I am getting 20-50% on average

You seem to have a interesting definition of the term average.

 

[Corey 'Greyfox']

the difference is huge, have you read the EULA ?

Yes, and there is nothing in there that would stop me from buying say 1k CLD's, log into my account once a week and initiate a withdrawl.

http://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/shares.asp#axzz1ljQDFYg3

 

[ermik]

Yes, and there is nothing in there that would stop me from buying say 1k CLD's, log into my account once a week and initiate a withdrawl.

http://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/shares.asp#axzz1ljQDFYg3

yes but you must understand that if you buy shares in a company, you as a physical person owns them, it gets registered on you.

if you buy CLD´s , they get into you avatars inventory, and you as a physical person dont own your avatar, MA does.

there is the huge difference you choose not to see.

 

[Artrat]

I am getting 20-50% on average

soo 62% might be too high

interesting fact...

Madoffs was safe till he offered too high returns...
He was busted for offering 12% returns... when no other funds could offer such high returns...
Allen Stanford offered around 10% returns...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madoff_investment_scandal

wonder how long they would have lasted if they offered 30% returns

not comparing entropia to a fund or a ponzi...
just saying... if returns are comparable... and 12% is too high or as stated "too good to be true"
wonder where 30% comes in at

No, Maddoff was busted for lying about investing peoples money when in fact he was just sticking it in a bank account, it has nothing to do with the level of return he offered. Even if he had offered 5% his scheme would have collapsed eventually and he would still have been guilty of fraud.

Ma has no obligation to pay us 30%, if things are going poorly, we get less. People will moan and complain and the value of the CLD's will drop, but it is no skin off MA's nose.

MA gains nothing by paying for the CLDs from the loot pool, and would be commiting fraud.

Another thing I think many people on this forum should remember is that accusing a person or business of commiting a crime without offering proof is considered libel in a lot of places. Fortunately MA does not seem inclined towards litigation.

 

[Corey 'Greyfox']

No, Maddoff was busted for lying about investing peoples money when in fact he was just sticking it in a bank account, it has nothing to do with the level of return he offered. Even if he had offered 5% his scheme would have collapsed eventually and he would still have been guilty of fraud.

Ma has no obligation to pay us 30%, if things are going poorly, we get less. People will moan and complain and the value of the CLD's will drop, but it is no skin off MA's nose.

MA gains nothing by paying for the CLDs from the loot pool, and would be commiting fraud.

Another thing I think many people on this forum should remember is that accusing a person or business of commiting a crime without offering proof is considered libel in a lot of places. Fortunately MA does not seem inclined towards litigation.

Damn, need to spread more rep.


@ermik, and you think their is not legal action that can be taken if AR Universe decides to end payment to CLD holders?

 

[ermik]

@ermik, and you think their is not legal action that can be taken if AR Universe decides to end payment to CLD holders?

thats the whole point, you assume you can always turn to legal actions if something goes wrong.

you cant, when you make a deposit you GIVE the money to MA, its basicly a gift. They then let you play with you avatar and your avatar can then use the deposited funds as currency ingame.

they can stop payment at any time , they can delete your avatar at any time, even without having to inform you first och give you a reason why.

Still i love EU, i have great faith in the plattform, but please dont mistake this place for a IRL investment oportunity compared to other investment options irl, where you often have some kind of protection both legaly and finacially via laws ang regulations.

 

[Kemp]

The income of a planet is split in half between ma and the company that runs the planet. AR Universe operate calypso, 50% of what aru gets is used for development, the other 50% goes to land deed owners

Define "income".