Why Space is PVP (IMHO)

[burnsey]

Ahhh true enough, I can try to book and day and time with someone with a MS then log out till we get to the destination....how convienient...

No, it's even easier than that to access. Just don't bring any stackables in space and you've unlocked the secret non-lootable route.

 

[.Stagger]

I think lootable space is a great idea. What I dislike about it is the implementation.
Imagine if you will, akmuul:

At this akmuul your probes would be lootable
At this akmuul the toxic shot would be virtually free
At this akmuul there would be only a few points of entrance/exit
At this akmuul TP chips and faster vehicles would be inaccessible for the average player


The fact that people even wonder why people log out in quads (or take a MS) baffles me.

seriously wtf kind of comparisement is this..
were not looting your ammo guns armor tools mindforce peds deeds attachments blueprints and shit.
were only looting materials and minerals in space.
people like you are the ones trading and doing their utmost best to make this game even more boring and profitable for the market manipulators.

if you want to make a proper comparisement.
you should compare space pvp to hunting on planet.
Where every atrox or hogglo you nearly kill presses ALT+F4 and leaves you with a wtf..

 

[Joat]

Not sure what they accomplished with the lootable PVP actauly, if we
look at it as a tool to reduce trading between planets.
The interesting parts from planets are unlootable.
If they wanted people to stay at each planet with resources found there,
they could have demanded the PPS to actualy follow the business model of
the platform with PPs.

Business Model

MindArk has an uncomplicated, yet effective business model. It is based on the fact that both MindArk and the Planet Partner brings something to the table in order to create a new flourishing interactive environment together - a new unique planet in Entropia Universe. Once the planet is up and running, MindArk and the Planet Partner, shares the revenue.

In the collaboration, where both parties contribute to the creation of a planet, MindArk provides the technology through Entropia Platform, know-how and a proven income model and the Planet Partners contribute with creativity, content and a budget for operations, marketing and other activities.

They could just have done resources unique to each planet, and then
restricted the possibilty to use them on other planets.
But since we do have MA resources and PP resources, it do open up need
to move resources.
If we hit a big one at planet1, but we want to play at planet2 in the
future, we are forced to either put it in TT since no one is interested
in the resources at planet1, or bring it to planet2 and sell it, with the risk
to either get looted or the chance to get a MU at planet2.
If the option to log off disapear, a lot more is probably put in tt in this
scenario.
Not many will try a planet out if they know they can't sell stuff there, or
the chance to be loot is too high, among those that play for profit.
This will probably damage a PP even more, with less activity there, because
how many PP do have a unique features that attract players to do something
unique?
A new graphix on same features aren't unique imo, it's just different.

 

[aia]

It's not very difficult to fly around with a quad, and the cost is very low. And if you have loot the mothership flights are not expensive.

It's easy if you have plenty of time.

It's not easy if you only have a few hours monday-friday between work and bed - especially since you have to make the entire trip in "one go" without logging out once. If you log out during the trip, when you log in again you might arrive at a space station which can be hard to leave, and if you log out on "wrong side of server border" you have to repeat a bit of the trip.

MA support has also said, that repeated pk:ing at a space station is *not* harassment ("get a bigger gun and shoot back"), so if you have bad luck the trip can take even longer time.

Also, if you want to get back urgently to a planet because of an unforseen event, it can take quite some time.

When it comes to "protecting the local economy"; again if you plan to bring a huge stack of something it's possible today to travel either totally safely (though "grey") or at almost totally safely and "legal" (using a ship with crew and enhanced SI), so *big* traders doesn't have much of a problem with the system today.

If you are very rich, then the current system probably isn't a problem for you. Then you probably have a mothership or privateer of your own, maybe even login credentials for a pilot avatar so you can fly the ship to the planet where you are even if you aren't there yourself..
If you're making profit (possibly by the trip itself), then you probably have no problem paying what it costs to immediately charter a mothership to take you where you want to go.

But if every PED you spend ingame comes from depositing, from IRL money, it kind of hurts to have to pay for services you don't need - if you just want to make it from one planet to another within a reasonable time and you don't intend to bring stackables.

There are taxi rides also, but they have the problem with if the ride gets shot down during the ride, you have to (should) be online and active so you can re-enter the ship since the "taxi driver" can't pick you up from revival and put you back inside the ship. Simularily, if you fly by yourself you can't really fly afk, you risk stop at a point "unable to enter deep space" in case you don't fly 100% straight, or you'll stop at a planet with the popup "Do you want to land" (as there is no option "always land on planet upon entering landing zone").

An other option for the rich was to buy one of the slightly faster repairable quads. Sure, you'll still spend time flying but you have a bigger chance to get away from space stations where the pirates wants to bring you down to revival at least one time/each. You needed aroudn 55k ped though to be able to get one of the faster quadwings.

There are also scheduled rides, which works ok if you're going between Calypso and Arkadia. But for Rocktropia it's two rides/week, and for Next Island one trip/week (and if you're going *to* Next Island you're going to spend 4 hours of "primetime" aboard the mothership).

Another thing that seems to happen about every second VU, is that people get stuck in space - that revivals stop working and in those instances it takes days for support to relocate you. And even when it's known that revivals doesn't work, the pirates doesn't hesitate twice to make people get stuck. After all it's lootable pvp. And sometimes you crash (though rarer than before) when entering space, which can be nasty if you're flying out of a mothership to land on a planet, in case you crash immediately when entering lootable pvp.

 

[.Stagger]

If we hit a big one at planet1, but we want to play at planet2 in the
future, we are forced to either put it in TT since no one is interested
in the resources at planet1, or bring it to planet2 and sell it, with the risk
to either get looted or the chance to get a MU at planet2.
If the option to log off disapear, a lot more is probably put in tt in this
scenario.
Not many will try a planet out if they know they can't sell stuff there, or
the chance to be loot is too high, among those that play for profit.

And what do you think that happends if the situation stays as it is?
every planet is suffering from the fact that people are taking everything to calypso.
the whole market spins around calypso.
so planet 2 3 4 and 5 will always be vacation planets, because if you need something calypso is the spot.

i'm personally making sure that because i'm a threat.. i force people to sell stuff on the planet anyway and be one of the first steppingstones to a planet's own economy.

 

[.Stagger]

MA support has also said, that repeated pk:ing at a space station is *not* harassment ("get a bigger gun and shoot back"), so if you have bad luck the trip can take even longer time.

then again, we pirates usually follow a code.
killing someone only one time then hes free to roam towards his destination.

you can fck this up yourself 2 ways..
1. let us find out your transfering loot to bypass us..
2. Have a big mouth.

if your just cool about it all, we will most likely be cool back and gameplay can keep it's fun.

 

[Spawn]

Simple: Make transportation between planets a pain in the ass, while still allowing such if you are brave enough.

Actually they succeeded in quite the opposite.

Before space was implemented, you could tp to a location for 40 ped
Now you get summoned, log off, and log in 4 mins later for 15 ped.

It was a lot more expensive before to go to other planets, It's a bit more complex now. But you will have saved 25 ped in 3 minutes.

or if you go by yourself, you will pay 3 ped in oil, 2 ped to enter another planet + some thruster decay. 7 ped max, saving you 33 ped, but costing you 44 mins. But then you get shot down sometimes by thieves who call themselves pirates, which I agree is a pain in the ass.

the loot factor is only applicable to foma (getting ore back to calypso) and to some bp's that require ingredients from different planets. You can happily craft away at the other planets and bring the crafted weaponry back to caly to trade.

 

[Alainax]

I space PvP

Doesn't really matter to me why they made it that way, I find it great fun and love spending time up there.

Its the way it should be imo,interplanatary traders and crafters zooming across the universe with thier wares, weighing up the risk of a quad over the benifits of motherships..... travellers setting off on journeys to far flung planets... it brings a great dimension to it all ( excuse the bad pun )

 

[Joat]

And what do you think that happends if the situation stays as it is?
every planet is suffering from the fact that people are taking everything to calypso.
the whole market spins around calypso.
so planet 2 3 4 and 5 will always be vacation planets, because if you need something calypso is the spot.

i'm personally making sure that because i'm a threat.. i force people to sell stuff on the planet anyway and be one of the first steppingstones to a planet's own economy.

The thing is, every planet should be created so there is no need to bring
items or resources between each planet.
Both PP and MA has "failed" here until now.

A PP should create a unique gameplay, and also bring in a new playerbase that has a
different interest than excisting.
Imo, this is hard. What can be created and bring in people that has a different gameplay
and interest than anything that is close to "the Big3"? Doubt this will ever happen
even thou' I do see a s***load of potential to do so. Ideas excist, question is if they fit...

Imo, if MA want resources mixed between MAresources and PPresources, that
should only be possible by having this mix based by space-loot and planet-loot.
That way more might be interested in space, if there are enough of features there...

What happens if it stays as it is now?
Can anyone *really* say that? I do know some that keep playing due to a
alternative to Calypso, since they are sick and tired of MA and go elsewhere,
even thou' MA still gain from them, but not in the content-creation p.o.v...
They might stay at other planets permanently, who knows.
I do know people go to other planets to do something else, and they are there
not long enough to build up a economy they use at that planet. They head
back to Calypso quite soon again.
Others can afford to build up a economy for each planet.
I do know people already tt a lot of stuff, instead of trying to sell.
I doubt any of those will travell thru' space if they couldn't do that
relativly safe.

If there are no market for them at each planet, do you think they will even
visit the planet, for other reasons then try to get a good loot in tt-value?
Far from everyone are HoF-chasers. Some do build up profits too, but bringing
that resources thru' a area where they might lose the whole value of it,
I doubt many will do that.

Anyway, good that you want to help MA out. But do you refund victims in a
value based in tt-value minus expanses or do you keep the whole value?

 

[aia]

then again, we pirates usually follow a code.
killing someone only one time then hes free to roam towards his destination.

you can fck this up yourself 2 ways..
1. let us find out your transfering loot to bypass us..
2. Have a big mouth.

if your just cool about it all, we will most likely be cool back and gameplay can keep it's fun.

There was a case some month ago, when you could kill someone through a ship (without destroying a ship), when someone who himself got mad and then started to do repeated killings, probably just to releive himself from frustration (but making others frustrated in the process) - it was this that caused me write to support to ask about policy about repeated kills (and use of unexpected methods to kill people in space). It wasn't one of you though. Not everyone follows your unofficial code of conduct - nothing prevents hardcore pk:ers to enter space and let their frustration of a bad day at work go out over others. If you go to a place like oil rig, you'll find both pk:ers who just do their business, keep their oil safe, and pk:ers who'll even kill soc members just for fun. For good and bad, space is an alternate arena for those who want to pk but meet too hard opponents in other places - but because of design it's worse to get pk:d in space than at rig (even if you don't carry loot) - pretty much anyhere, if I get killed I have the option of using my TP-chip to either TP back, TP "over" whatever kills me, or TP back to civilisation (15 seconds from oil rig to Twin Peaks). That option isn't availible in space.

A difference is that to a place like oil rig you can visit if you just want to spend some time, maybe socialize or hunt a bit - you don't go to oil rig if you are short of time. If you want to go between planets, then it's not optional to go through space, either in your own ship (slow) or with a mothership (here you have waiting time instead). And at the times you are there only to go between planets as fast as possible, time spent because of getting shot down is completely wasted time. The getting killed phase is short, but lag when arriving in hangar, locating a spot where you can spawn your ship, repairing ship (though repairing gives skills), occasionally add 1-2 minutes because of a CTD where you spend time trying to log back in again, and flying back to where you got killed is totally wasted time that probably was time you had planned to do something else (like taking part in an event).

And you always risk getting killed several times by different pirates. I once got killed twice within 5 minutes, by two diffent people though both withing "hearing range", trying to fly from Calypso Space Station to planet.

Last time I was killed in vicinty of Calypso (this was months ago) I was flying from a repair skilling run on a mothership down to calypso. My ship had 20% of the SI, because I had left mothership while it had tons of mobs on it and I just wanted to get back to planet as fast as possible - if I remember right, reason I wanted to go back to planet fast was because there was an event. If I had been hunting and I had been carrying loads of stackables, wouldn't I have let a spacemob kill off the remaning 20% of the ship? (I was in calypso training grounds, an area I wouldn't have passed through if I had been carrying stackables from another planet).

 

[aridash]

then again, we pirates usually follow a code.
killing someone only one time then hes free to roam towards his destination.

you can fck this up yourself 2 ways..
1. let us find out your transfering loot to bypass us..
2. Have a big mouth.

if your just cool about it all, we will most likely be cool back and gameplay can keep it's fun.

four reasons why your stated code is hollow and doesnt mean much to the other players: you get to chose a change of behaviour, you decide. the traveller cannot be certain that they are dealing with a "coded" pirate or another, if what they say isn't taken the wrong way, if you believe they are behaving outside your self imposed rules, or if you arent going to shoot them on a whim.

 

[JohnCapital]

While I understand the point of trying to connect pirates to this topic, let's just put it this way:

In making the whole space lootable PVP, MA fully intended for PVP hunters (what we call "pirates") to actively spend time trying to loot space travelers. It was their intent to insure stackable resources (or as I said in the OP, players who are carrying those resources) are difficult to transport.

Looting was in the space plan. In fact it was the space plan. So please don't get into arguments about whether specific PVP players are good or not.

Thanks

 

[aia]

insure stackable resources

Interesting you said "insured" instead of "ensured". Almost like there is a hidden meaning of it..

Looting was in the space plan. In fact it was the space plan. So please don't get into arguments about whether specific PVP players are good or not.

If looting is the space plan, there should be some way of travel if you don't carry lootables, so those of us who feels there are more fun things to do than being "interesting mobs" for pk:ers can spend our time in doing something that's more fun than spending minutes at game login prompt after a CTD, waiting for hangar interior to be drawn, waiting for avatar to have moved to a spot in hangar it's possible to put down ship, waiting for ship to be repaired for travel and waiting for ship to have moved as far from space station as was when being killed.

Some way of travelling that doesn't involve breaking the EULA (ie creating alts on each planet).

Also, there is no way for a pvp player to know if someone is carrying lootables, so everyone, regardless if it's a trader, pk:er or "tourist", is a potential target for determined pk:ers.

MA stated what you say, but on the other hand they also stated that when designing space as pvp, they had no thought at all for people who travels through space for other reason than trading; MA assumes everyone who's travelling through space are risk-takers who do it for moving stackable resources between planets.

202404 will mindark fix space (Entropiaforum)

The majority of complaints about space PvP that I have seen focus on travel between planets and the transport of resources not on space hunting and exploration, which is why I directed my previous reply to those opposed to interplanetary space PvP.

As for the general thread; I guess everyone knows what I like the current implementation of space and the way it got implemented. I don't take the initiative to create threads about it, but if someone creates a thread about and gives their point with a strong emphasis "what I say is the truth" then I reply and tell my side of it.

 

[Joat]

While I understand the point of trying to connect pirates to this topic, let's just put it this way:

In making the whole space lootable PVP, MA fully intended for PVP hunters (what we call "pirates") to actively spend time trying to loot space travelers. It was their intent to insure stackable resources (or as I said in the OP, players who are carrying those resources) are difficult to transport.

Looting was in the space plan. In fact it was the space plan. So please don't get into arguments about whether specific PVP players are good or not.

Thanks

Maybe looting were *the* reason for space, maybe it wasn't.
I do know it weren't "possible" earlier in a technical p.o.v, and this
were before PPs were announced. The Space area that is, not the lootable feature.
Space was a feature some wanted to be implemented in PE/EU thou', and also
planed to be PvP for a long time. Probably were the lootable aspect that too,
from MAs p.o.v

Now I also know MA can be in deep shit if they use features that has a too
high risk in it, and this is from a legal p.o.v.
Maybe they use the log off as a reducer for the risk in Space?

As mentioned before, if the purpose of lootable space is to balance economies
then they should for sure introduce planet to planet tp, which players only
can use when travelling without stackables.
A feature like that will ofc never come, since MA is good at screw up the
funfactor for some players. In general, the game is ok, then they manage
to introduce something that destroys fundamental things.
Space is one for some, while others look at it as something with a high funfactor.
(My own p.o.v in this is that it probably would do space more empty, there
are other solutions for players to increase the safety when moving values
between planets.)
Maybe they should have a look at their annual report and look at it with a
realistic p.o.v. Does EU work properly with their strategy?
Only MA can answer this imo.

Anyway, lootable will probably always be around, so no matter what we
think of it, it's "the reality of life" in EU...

 

[Snagletooth]

I don't have any problem with loot-able space. The only problem I see is the single space station and pirate "camping" of those space stations. Coming across a pirate should be a random act of (bad) luck in the depths of space, not a prerequisite before you even get a chance to start off.

 

[aia]

Space itself, as an area, is pretty cool and could be further developed.
(In the following I won't consider pvp everywhere or not, just give a few ideas.)

Before space was made bigger, there were rocks at a space horror swarm. Consider now if you were able to leave your vehicle and walk around on it. Now think of a bigger asteriod, and that you were able to go out on it and mine. If it's in a lootable zone, you could have materials on that rock like Himi (well organic stuff like blood moss probably isn't appropriate in free space).

A few minor planets or settlements scattered in space. Maybe some mini-planet with 2-3 teleporters. Mayve another planet, with (lootable) pvp everywhere except inside the main village (where you also take off and land), with possible mobs and resources as in pvp4. I wouldn't care if this lootable planet would be reachable only through lootable space or not.
Make some more destinations in space and a reason to actually travel and explore - not just a huge vastness you have to go through to go between your favorite planets.

If you remember the old design space stations, maybe re-implement them at a few locations - the thing that bad with the old spacestations were basically that it was a looong run between hangar and TP - so solve it by putting a second teleporter in the hangar and you wouldn't have to run between unless you wanted to explore.

For the new design space stations: Open up the areas we've seen pictures on but MA has made impossible to reach. Easiest way is probably by putting a televator in hangar.

(For pvp zones, or well general)
Make it possible to exit ships anywhere in space. Since we float around for a minute nowdays I can't se why not we should't be allowed to. If there is a risk of suiciding in front of a spacemob if someone comes by, make a 20 second delay or so to exit ship in space.

For the first 30 seconds we float around, allow us to use weapons. This will make situations where pirates successfully shootdown a mothership or privateer more interesting: Imagine instead of 30 sitting ducks floating around in space, instead 30 ducks floating in space with their marbers firing at whatever comes close enough. Thinking realistically, say after 30 seconds ability to use weapons will vanish when oxygen level in blood gets too low.
Or someoene who got shot out of his quadwing at least can give the pirate a few scratches (and, well unfortunately, possibly piloting skills).

This isn't really the space zone, but anyway:
Make it possible to, with or without equipment, walk "outside" on old cnd/FOMA and CP on the ground. Maybe outdoor mining on FOMA for instance could be pvp and in some areas lootable PVP. On CP make it possible to walk in all corridors as it used to be inclding bridge over main hall.

Personally, I would like a fast ship in space, say 200 mph/km/h. Let's call it "Scout". One seat, no guns, low SI (not intended to take active part in battles) and you wouldn't be able to enter it with lootables. Or a Space VTOL X Ah, well. (And I've said it before, I'd like ot be able to use my TP-chip in space.)

 

[Huskie]

And what do you think that happends if the situation stays as it is?
every planet is suffering from the fact that people are taking everything to calypso.
the whole market spins around calypso.
so planet 2 3 4 and 5 will always be vacation planets, because if you need something calypso is the spot.

i'm personally making sure that because i'm a threat.. i force people to sell stuff on the planet anyway and be one of the first steppingstones to a planet's own economy.

Like I said on Aeris' thread, I find it hilariously funny how you condemn others for wanting to trade in Calypso, yet do all of your own trading there as well. Secondly, how do you even know if the person isn't transporting loot from Calypso to sell at other planets? I doubt you ask them, and I doubt you wouldn't shoot them down anyway even if they said and showed you that's what they're doing.

Also, the way you talk about planets' economies, you show your complete cluelessness about what the markets on planets look like now. As it is, a lot of stackables are better sold elsewhere than on Calypso already. So quit acting all high-and-mighty, you just kill people because you are the hypocritical "greedy motherfcker"*, we know it and you know it.

*Note before post gets edited: I'm merely quoting what he called the entirety of the community on another post of his that did not get edited, so I see no problem in using his own words against him.

 

[ruslan]

I like it, but spaceships are way too cheap..

pirating in space should cost much much more.

 

[Xen]

It's easy if you have plenty of time.

It's not easy if you only have a few hours monday-friday between work and bed - especially since you have to make the entire trip in "one go" without logging out once. If you log out during the trip, when you log in again you might arrive at a space station which can be hard to leave, and if you log out on "wrong side of server border" you have to repeat a bit of the trip.

MA support has also said, that repeated pk:ing at a space station is *not* harassment ("get a bigger gun and shoot back"), so if you have bad luck the trip can take even longer time.

Also, if you want to get back urgently to a planet because of an unforseen event, it can take quite some time.

When it comes to "protecting the local economy"; again if you plan to bring a huge stack of something it's possible today to travel either totally safely (though "grey") or at almost totally safely and "legal" (using a ship with crew and enhanced SI), so *big* traders doesn't have much of a problem with the system today.

If you are very rich, then the current system probably isn't a problem for you. Then you probably have a mothership or privateer of your own, maybe even login credentials for a pilot avatar so you can fly the ship to the planet where you are even if you aren't there yourself..
If you're making profit (possibly by the trip itself), then you probably have no problem paying what it costs to immediately charter a mothership to take you where you want to go.

But if every PED you spend ingame comes from depositing, from IRL money, it kind of hurts to have to pay for services you don't need - if you just want to make it from one planet to another within a reasonable time and you don't intend to bring stackables.

There are taxi rides also, but they have the problem with if the ride gets shot down during the ride, you have to (should) be online and active so you can re-enter the ship since the "taxi driver" can't pick you up from revival and put you back inside the ship. Simularily, if you fly by yourself you can't really fly afk, you risk stop at a point "unable to enter deep space" in case you don't fly 100% straight, or you'll stop at a planet with the popup "Do you want to land" (as there is no option "always land on planet upon entering landing zone").

An other option for the rich was to buy one of the slightly faster repairable quads. Sure, you'll still spend time flying but you have a bigger chance to get away from space stations where the pirates wants to bring you down to revival at least one time/each. You needed aroudn 55k ped though to be able to get one of the faster quadwings.

There are also scheduled rides, which works ok if you're going between Calypso and Arkadia. But for Rocktropia it's two rides/week, and for Next Island one trip/week (and if you're going *to* Next Island you're going to spend 4 hours of "primetime" aboard the mothership).

Another thing that seems to happen about every second VU, is that people get stuck in space - that revivals stop working and in those instances it takes days for support to relocate you. And even when it's known that revivals doesn't work, the pirates doesn't hesitate twice to make people get stuck. After all it's lootable pvp. And sometimes you crash (though rarer than before) when entering space, which can be nasty if you're flying out of a mothership to land on a planet, in case you crash immediately when entering lootable pvp.

Use this:

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...itions-for-space-travel&p=2899973#post2899973

It only takes ~25 minutes to get to RT from Caly with a quad. Arkadia is about the same.

I've never been shot by a pirate more than once trying to leave a space station (I don't bother wasting peds shooting back, I just take the skills). I've never been intercepted in the middle of space.

If soemone can't "fly straight", that's their problem. Use the "align horizontal" action.

Really, it's pretty easy.

People wanting it even easier seem to mostly be traders crying that they can't do instant arbitrage using a cheap teleporter to travel between planets (not saying you are a trader).

 

[das]

planet specific stackables only.. all problems solved

 

[Fifth]

planet specific stackables only.. all problems solved

... and all problems with the global market also solved

 

[Doer]

I like it, but spaceships are way too cheap..

pirating in space should cost much much more.

Yes, i was thinking about clever ways space pirates were dealt with in sci-fi stories, and there's often a theme of "making it unprofitable". In order for that to work, the cost of failure of a pirate must be higher. There are many ways of doing this, and besides making ships more expensive (which would obviously disproportionately hurt the victims, not the pirates) one of the most obvious that would further the development of a space pirate adventure is to brand pirates as such when they first kill and loot a ship not guilty of the same (obviously this would have to be carefully designed), announce they are wanted (automated wanted posters posted in various space stations would be cool), and make them "fence" all their pirate loot through a pirate base on an asteroid somewhere that is subject to a raid. Make the base an instance with automated defenders, guns, etc. and also let the pirates themselves defend it. Give it a, say, 2 hour window from when the pirate lands until his loot is released to be sold wherever he chooses. If, during that time, a raid is successful, the loot goes to the raiders and they are given some kind of commendation.

The problem is that MA doesn't take opportunities and run with them, take lemons and make lemonade, they let things fester in half-realized states for mon...years.

ETA another development to aid this situation would be to introduce new freighter class ships and limit the cargo of small vessels. We could even see the development of professional escort privateers etc. if they play this right.

 

[SpikeBlack]

The thing is, every planet should be created so there is no need to bring
items or resources between each planet.
Both PP and MA has "failed" here until now.

that was one of the things that Ark had to do very quickly. I think even they had the lootable pvp sprung on them as they had to redo two months of work on their BP's to use local resources to make themselves far more self sufficient.

As for pirates camping stations and spawn points, this was pointed out to MA several times and they completely ignored it by saying a pirate couldn't cover the safezone completely ingoring that most campers will just sit around the station and follow people out (if you still fly out of the safe zone with a pirate on your ass more fool you).

Show me a pvp game which allows a member of the opposite team to camp the exact point where people spawn? It wasn't until they made everyone spawn in a lootable area and had to backtrack quickly by moving it to a station.

 

[JohnCapital]

I see I need to bump this thread up because many folks still don't seem to recognize why things are a certain way.

I'll just leave this important part from the op quoted.

MA wants as many... of these [plant partners] are supposed to be responsible for advertising and bringing in their own quantity of new players.

So far the planets aren't fighting too hard to bring in new players, they're just fighting over all us current players. Which is exactly what space PVP was meant to discourage.

 

[Magyar_Republic]

I see I need to bump this thread up because many folks still don't seem to recognize why things are a certain way.

I'll just leave this important part from the op quoted.


So far the planets aren't fighting too hard to bring in new players, they're just fighting over all us current players. Which is exactly what space PVP was meant to discourage.

Agreed on both counts.

It was at once point stated that this was the intention of space. I'm too lazy to look up where.

Planet Partners are not doing their jobs adequately. They are depending on Calypso advertising revenue, basically leaning on the backs of the CLD owners, to bring in new folks, and keeping their own advertising within very meager budgets, if any at all.

The question is: Why? Do planet partners not see value in their platforms worthy of advertising?

 

[OZtwo]

I see I need to bump this thread up because many folks still don't seem to recognize why things are a certain way.

I'll just leave this important part from the op quoted.


So far the planets aren't fighting too hard to bring in new players, they're just fighting over all us current players. Which is exactly what space PVP was meant to discourage.

Oh please don't get me started on this one all over again. If MA can do this why can't they go to a players house and kill them? I mean they had to do it for the good of the game? Yes that's kind of harsh but well that's our legal system which MA is breaking but is way too small to be put on the map to have anyone stop them.

So yes if you some day see that I have stopped posting well I guess MA took me up on my advice and I guess it's just better for the game.

At the end you are absolutely right only issue here is that this is a RCE based game and only ones that seem to fight this are the ones who most likely wouldn't give it a second thought of stealing from others in R/L. So yes it is a lost debate.

 

[JohnCapital]

In fairness, Serica said it better in her post
https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...s-PVP-(IMHO)&p=2928324&viewfull=1#post2928324
About MA wanting to restrict transport of material in hopes of encouraging planet specific commerce, instead of everything just going to Calypso.

The best part is those of you saying this has failed as an argument to turn off space PVP, as if THAT will somehow improve the issue.

But I still stand by my admonition that PP need to do more to encourage their own new player base, i stead of fighting over old player activity.

 

[aia]

In fairness, Serica said it better in her post
https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...s-PVP-(IMHO)&p=2928324&viewfull=1#post2928324
About MA wanting to restrict transport of material in hopes of encouraging planet specific commerce, instead of everything just going to Calypso.

Mkey, space depate again.

I keep my views short. First, I Think that reason for lootable space is totally different.

Secondly; having a pvp area that you have to pass through can attract griefers (eg some who's shooting to abort warp repeatedly to keep someone from leaving for personal reasons "I don't like him"); and lootable pvp can attract players who wouldn't Think twice of using every trick in the book as well as tricks that isn't in the book to earn PEDs from others who play honest.

Third; compared to on-planet lootable areas, security about space isn't adequate. First of all, it's easy to get into space even if it wasn't your intention, and secondly it's not 100% clear what you can lose. MA is on its way to mark stackables (but unfortunately there is a flaw where obvious untradeable items are marked as lootable); and there is no Quick way to check if you do carry anything lootable besides opening every vehicle and storage box you are carrying and hoping all stacks will show up and no stack won't show up in time due to show-up lag; or buying an antotoxic shot for you and a friend and do a straight test at pvp3/pvp4 border and asking your friend what he/she got. There is no obvious function to see what you have lost either when you have been killed in lootable pvp; with some bad luck you notice a week later you had a hangar part in a box that you didn't intend to bring through space but accidently was left in a storage box you carried.

Unfortunately, due to pirate activities (the summer pirates made mass-summons), you can't keep summon box on screen while going to storage and dumping things there and then press "ok " when you're done... First you get the summon box and it's typically not enough time to get to storage and get yourself ready. Well, after first summon box, when you're done, now you need to wait, pretty much doing nothing, for second summon as you can no longer accept the "first" summon and get aboard mothership and idle there and get coffee or whatever. Again, this is a result of what a handful of pirates did for weeks (as the scheme involved a privateer it was apparently people who knew what they did - but didn't have the moral to feel "ok it was fun the first time let's stop at this" and even less, apologize after to beginners who were set stranded on space station and to rest of us who got the nerfed summon box.

Personally, I hope for a 50k ped HOF :lol:

 

[Dan59]

In fairness, Serica said it better in her post
https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...s-PVP-(IMHO)&p=2928324&viewfull=1#post2928324
About MA wanting to restrict transport of material in hopes of encouraging planet specific commerce, instead of everything just going to Calypso.

The best part is those of you saying this has failed as an argument to turn off space PVP, as if THAT will somehow improve the issue.

But I still stand by my admonition that PP need to do more to encourage their own new player base, i stead of fighting over old player activity.

Well she quoted Bjorn who told a lot of..... to defend MA idea.
But he could also travel a little and see borders between different countries - states on earth.
I don't see pirates on borders.
They solved it with import - export taxes and fees or in extreme situation with embargo (in our case we can talk about possibility of planet bound resources or items). War is left for end when all other solutions do not work.
In EU war is used as first and ultimate solution.

 

[JohnCapital]

Aia,

So... First you simply say I'm wrong, then instead of debating why space pvp you simply complain about it.

I've tried to impress upon folks that this thread is a completely different topic then the usual "space sucks. No it doesn't."