Vtol Mining exploit?

[jenny ferr]

Update​

"inspired" by another post I decided to simply ask support just like that person did about another vtol exploit, and this is what they said:

History for support case XXXXXX:

2013-07-18 00:27 You wrote:
Hello Support.

"Vtol/sleipnir mining" where you drop down in the middle of a thick mobspawn and drop your probe then enter your vtol/sleipnir again to loose aggro and then if you find a claim exit/enter between each pull of the excavator, thereby entering a so-called "god-mode", where use of armor or fap becomes completely unnecessary.

Is this method of mining considered an exploit, and therefore proper action will be taken against participants using this exploit?

Or

Is this method of mining NOT considered an exploit, and therefore no action will be taken agains participants using this method of mining?

Exploit or not exploit?

2013-07-18 00:29 You wrote:
armor/fap for your own defense while mining in these areas to be exact.

2013-07-19 20:04 Entropia Universe Support:

Hi,

Thank you for your report.

This method is considered an exploit, if you are acting this way we recommend you to stop this action, and if you know of avatars abusing this exploit you are welcome to let us know.

Kind Regards,
Entropia Universe Support

Original OP Below​

He's a vtol exploiter, hunting mob X olds with vtol out with his friend. Each shooting till the mob reaches them, then hoppin into vtol.

Nothing against you Sloe, just took your quote to illustrate the point.

the common argument against VTOL hunting is that it make you able to hunt big mobs, and I wont comment on that as we all should know the rules.

But what about VTOL mining, where you drop down in the middle of a spawn, drop one probe then fly off and then if you get a claim fly to dig it up. (multiple times if needed, no regard on aggroing mobs on a nearby hunter)

Isn't that the same as VTOL hunting, if you got the gear you should be "allowed" to mine that place but if you dont and use a VTOL it's an exploit...

Just some thoughts on the matter....

EDIT: another quote on the matter:

Those of us who actually do hunt the right way (as intended) and take decay and lose peds ect, should not have to foot the bill for the HOF or ATH an exploiter gets, so bet your ass I would surely KS the shit outta that mob in the same situation.

And once again, who are we to say that someone who get a ATH while vtol mining in big thick mob spawns isn't equally to blame as the ones getting it from hunting...
(if there is any blame for any of it in the first place)

 

[Ludvig|MindArk]

Yes, that would probably be considered an exploit (if I understood you correctly)... Landing, exiting VTOL, pulling some ore, entering VTOL to quit the aggro, exiting VTOL, pulling some ore, etc?

 

[Neil Stockton]

Nothing about you Sloe, just took your quote to illustrate the point.

the common argument against VTOL hunting is that it make you able to hunt big mobs, and I wont comment on that as we all should know the rules.

But what about VTOL mining, where you drop down in the middle of a spawn, drop one probe then fly off and then if you get a claim fly to dig it up. (multiple times if needed, no regard on aggroing mobs on a nearby hunter)

Isn't that the same as VTOL hunting, if you got the gear you should be "allowed" to mine that place but if you dont and use a VTOL it's an exploit...

Not at all the same. The miner would not be getting any loot from the mobs while mining. The problem with VTOL hunting is that you (presumably!) get the good loots without the needing to have the skills. That's what makes it an exploit. Now, if the good ores were just under the giant mobs, you would have a point, but that's not how ores are distributed. Besides that, it's just not practical to mine among mobs without a vehicle. Try killing a dense field of big mobs so you can mine under them, and let me know how cost effective the mining is

Needing to hop in and out of your VTOL to avoid aggro while digging IMO isn't an exploit for the same reasons: avoiding the decay is not helping you get any better loot. BUT, if you have to use that technique, you're not using a very brilliant mining strategy... it means you're mining among mobs that are too big for you and sooner or later you're going to get burned with a lyst hof at the worst possible location!

Using a VTOL to fly to drop points in a mob field is just like a hunter flying around, looking for a mob that's not surrounded by other mobs, then dropping down and killing it. It's not an exploit, it's the game.

 

[Profit]

VTOL mining is not the same as VTOL hunting.
But you already knew that before you started this thread.

 

[PaulCrystal]

If we are not talking about getting to the next drop point vtol mining and hunting serve the same purpose - to avoid and/or lose mob aggro.

Still beats me why it is considered an exploit, because dying from mob hits would be losing aggro too, thus an exploit.

 

[whiteknut]

Someone uses vtol hunting prots these days? I thought you can outrun them(atleast since last proteron update), and if hunting in team one guy just runs until other one shoots, and starts shooting when mob changes target..

 

[Ludvig|MindArk]

Still beats me why it is considered an exploit, because dying from mob hits would be losing aggro too, thus an exploit.

Dying from a mob hit and losing aggro is an intended feature. Using a vehicle to lose aggro and be able to hunt above your level is not. That's the difference.

 

[Guarana]

vtol hunting for me is more gambling than exploit. How much more does the mob regen for x amount of times you have to jump in vtol, drive to max range and do it over and over again. Still would make it some peds more expensive to kill. Only way to fix this is to put a CD on entering viehcle like they did on spawning em. 10 - 20 sek should fix it.

 

[psychnosiz]

You can also run every mob into a lake and then mine a populated area in peace.
Such actions aren't exploits.

 

[Falagor]

vtol hunting for me is more gambling than exploit. How much more does the mob regen for x amount of times you have to jump in vtol, drive to max range and do it over and over again. Still would make it some peds more expensive to kill. Only way to fix this is to put a CD on entering viehcle like they did on spawning em. 10 - 20 sek should fix it.

Terrible idea. Miner who mines in mob free area would be punished too. They using vehicles for faster mining - that is obvious. If there was extra time wasted on entering vehicle...

... then whats the point of having vehciles at all: just for fly in space or going from one spot to another? Thats silly.


To everyone who think vtol mining its exploit: this game is cosndiered "sandbox" by its creators - obviously they introduce things and watch how comunity reacts on them and what things comunity can do with provided tools.

If everyone in "sandbox" is building sand castle from dry sand and considering this is common and only good way to do it. Then one finding out that it is easier to build them using sand mixed with water and others pointing him out (in bad way) becasue he found out better way - that is just stupid and comes from jelousity .

Do not punish creativity - its the only way that leads to evolution .

PS: i am not using vtol in mining because its to slow for my needs - there are better vehs .

Falagor

 

[martinstids]

No it isnt exploit. You use 2 thinks - land and mining equipment. Doesnt matter where u drop the probe, you cant get it more eco then it is. You can only lose - decey if mobs attack you. Mobs dont even play role in mining profession, becouse ull get 90% tt return on every probe in long run. If miner wants to drop probe in middle of red see, he risks to waste many hours if he claims oil or lyst hof So its just privilegy not exploit

 

[mastermesh]

vtol hunting hasn't been removed from the game yet, so it's obviously not an exploit. If Mindark thinks otherwise, they should have programmed its use out of the game, but so far they have not done so. No, I've never gone vehicle hunting.

Mindark should make it so that vehicles only follow certain 'roads' and if your vehicle goes off of the beaten path it gets put back in storage automatically, or you can hit a box to confirm you want to continue to use your vehicle in a non-vehicle area in defiance of the law, you get fined a certain ped amount per minute you are in the non-vehicle area.

If you don't have the peds, your ped balance goes negative for the fine until you loot back that amount to get it to zero or something. If you stay negative a certain amount of time your avatar gets a 'target' above it's head and anyone with target above head can be looted anywhere in game, both in and out of pvp zones until the tt balance equal to the fine amount is looted from you. This system could be used for all exploits that Mindark is too lazy to code out of existence... of course, if they take the time to code the parameters to make this system, they should be able to code the damn exploits out too, lol... but it might be fun to have a system like this anyways. There could even be a repeatable quest assigned by law enforcement npcs to 'hunt the criminal targets' where you have x amount of hours to hunt and kill the criminal targets. All the 'targets' will appear on your radar and be trackable in your map. There will be a list of all of them and you pick the one to go after, hitting them all, one by one, to take em out. There could be a 'special reward' for those that kill the most amount of targets in any 24 hour period.

 

[Akbar]

Dying from a mob hit and losing aggro is an intended feature. Using a vehicle to lose aggro and be able to hunt above your level is not. That's the difference.

How can you affirm this ?
Are you in mindark comfidences ?
May be you belonged to the mindark project meeting before they released the vehicle system feature ?

-

Mindark created the vtol system in a paying game as "supposed" professional game makers.
If we can do something, then they know it, and it is allowed.
You can be 100% sure, that after 6-7-10 years of activity doing this game and changing the rules all the time (in good or bad), in short and medium term, that mindark had the vision of EVERYTHING that this new feature (land and air vehicles) would be bringing.

Now if this is not allowed (like everywhere on earth in most democratic countries) they must do the necessary to find a FAST solution to make it not work.
But accuse people to be cheating for something they are DELIBERATELY letting ALIVE FOR YEARS like it was once created is NOTHING FAIR.

Since 2 years or 3 that vtols arrived, they solved nothing, accused people to be cheating where there is none, implemented an unfair "cool down" spawn time limit, and they are forcing ninja respawns on the vehicle position (<-- this is not an exploit may be ??? #1)..., but also in the particular case of mining claims, same they are forcing ninja respawns on the mining claim itself (<-- this is not an exploit may be ??? #2).
I remember threads on this forum where miners were complaining that now they must take tons of ammo to shoot during their mining runs (when they never had to before).

Also notice that since the vtol system appeared, a huge majority of creatures have seen their range attack increased over the 50m radar limit which was previously given to the "BIG" mobs.
In the same process, the radar itself have been doubled in size with the new bold outer circle, clearly made in purpose to keep and increase the mob aggro (guess who took advantage of doing this...).

Finally no viable solution was found to make a so called "exploit" un-available.
No as usual, they left it without fixing anything (clearly due to a huge lack of beta-testing (nothing new)), they just added some new unfair and disgusting features.
who are the cheaters ?...

Welcome to EU, enjoy your experience....

Still beats me why it is considered an exploit, because dying from mob hits would be losing aggro too, thus an exploit.

Absolutely Paul.

... then whats the point of having vehciles at all: just for fly in space or going from one spot to another? Thats silly.

Yeah, mindark for sure analysed all possible ways of using this new tool.
And you can be 100000% sure they analysed all possible exploits that could affect the game with this new tool.
But implement new "features" which are leading in such kind of topics and talks in forums,
is really not something new, and they still do...

But one "hidden" reason was clearly to destroy the sweat market,
or undirectly saying, motivate new players to depo.
* And for those who will pretend this is wrong...
What tool we were using ALL THE TIME before the vtols appeared ? needing what energy ?...

 

[mastermesh]

As far as the 'exploit' part goes, both hunters AND miners are simply utilizing the feature of the vtols:

http://www.entropiaplanets.com/wiki/11.3.0

Creatures don't attack flying vehicles.

If Mindark really cared, they'd fix that and make it so that creatures DO attack vehicles. After all a vehicle is just a souped up version of armor, and they DO hit armor.

 

[Spawn]

* And for those who will pretend this is wrong...
What tool we were using ALL THE TIME before the vtols appeared ? needing what energy ?...

If that is the case, why are there now blueprints containing part of the energy you refer to?
If that is the case, why do you need a gigantic amount of part of this energy you refer to, to spawn the hussk?

 

[Akbar]

If that is the case, why are there now blueprints containing part of the energy you refer to?
If that is the case, why do you need a gigantic amount of part of this energy you refer to, to spawn the hussk?

This is just a little consequence to what happened. (and it happened really later after)...
To give a way for new players/sweaters to sell their sweats.
How many times the hussk was spawned ? 3 times.. nothing to brag.
And you can (even with 1-4 pulls) easily gather the 500k sweats in 1 day.
(At least, i had 1 golden sweat from the hussk !)

You can be sure that the ammount of mind essence made from refining sweats & nexus dramatically decreased, just as auction sells, and everthing related.

 

[Akbar]

As far as the 'exploit' part goes, both hunters AND miners are simply utilizing the feature of the vtols:

http://www.entropiaplanets.com/wiki/11.3.0

If Mindark really cared, they'd fix that and make it so that creatures DO attack vehicles. After all a vehicle is just a souped up version of armor, and they DO hit armor.

Absolutely Mastermesh,
this would have solved the "problem" and would have been a fair and logic feature.

It is clear knowing this game's hitory that mindark's conception of fairness differs a bit from its basic definition...

 

[trance]

Back to the theme: NO vtol mining is not a exploit! but maybe take care about hunters on the place around you want mine. As a miner you should never agro mobs so they attacks other ppl.

 

[Akbar]

As a miner you should never agro mobs so they attacks other ppl.

Yeah, this is saddly a more than commun behaviour, as someone did it this way against me lately...
until he jumped in his vtol when his target was on me.

This could be considered as an exploit,
and exploit to directly destroy another player's game /harrassment.

I took screenshots when that happened, even i know they will just fill my HDD for nothing.
Report such unadmitable behaviour to mindark is only resulting in...

Support Case closed.
They will do nothing.

 

[Ludvig|MindArk]

How can you affirm this ?
Are you in mindark comfidences ?
May be you belonged to the mindark project meeting before they released the vehicle system feature ?

No, Akbar. Just as usual when you ask this, I am not. I am, however, fully capable of reading, remembering what I have read and, if needed, use logic to make connections.

I won't post any links or quotes to show you where I read it this time though (as I have done earlier), since I really do not feel it is worth my time.

 

[Spawn]

And you can (even with 1-4 pulls) easily gather the 500k sweats in 1 day.

Buying akbar's sweat tool tt+500 (I would really love to pull 20k sweat per hour)

 

[Akbar]

Buying akbar's sweat tool tt+500 (I would really love to pull 20k sweat per hour)

There are enough sweaters in the whole game to gather the 500k sweats in 1 day,
don't you think ?...

 

[TheOneOmega]

There is no more VTOL exploit. It was a hunting exploit where folks could bypass weapon reload speed, as well as quickly avoid battle damage by entering an air vehicle before their weapon had properly reloaded (I guess it could have been used to drop probes too quickly as well, but that wouldn't be very rewarding ). A large amount of confusion seems to have developed regarding the "VTOL exploit," as folks learned to use it as a blanket term for accusing your enemies of wrongdoing. The real exploit was based on a reloading glitch from years, which has been fixed for quite some time.

 

[Vedder]

..
I won't post any links or quotes to show you where I read it ... since I really do not feel it is worth my time.

Aw, that would have been nice.


I heard that MA consider vtol hunting an exploit. But it's just what I heard.
A link to a MA quote or similar, which could clear up the basics a bit, would make this discussion much more constructive.

Provided that MA still considers vtol hunting an exploit, I'd say that vtol mining would be the same.

Another thing is, that I really think mobs in aggro, should attack vehicles too. Only up to a realistic height ofc, if you're flying. Why wouldn't they?

 

[JD RACING]

vtol is just the same as there hunting whit it

if there were no vtol in the game there wouldnt be mining there or they would need to have decay fabbing or alot more time running and tping there

i went to hunt one time at a atrox LA and there were a person there using a vtol to mine whit hoo you think got the decay

if you ban one person ban them all miners also

 

[Peezle]

Nothing against you Sloe, just took your quote to illustrate the point.

the common argument against VTOL hunting is that it make you able to hunt big mobs, and I wont comment on that as we all should know the rules.

But what about VTOL mining, where you drop down in the middle of a spawn, drop one probe then fly off and then if you get a claim fly to dig it up. (multiple times if needed, no regard on aggroing mobs on a nearby hunter)

Isn't that the same as VTOL hunting, if you got the gear you should be "allowed" to mine that place but if you dont and use a VTOL it's an exploit...

Just some thoughts on the matter....

EDIT: another quote on the matter:

And once again, who are we to say that someone who get a ATH while vtol mining in big thick mob spawns isn't equally to blame as the ones getting it from hunting...
(if there is any blame for any of it in the first place)

You are contradicting yourself on every step. Please Jenny. Your time will come. All of this nonesense of vtols will evaporate once you get your fat hit.

It sounds to me like an ant complaining the queen got the nectar because ant # 5006 got a nice hit.

Please. It is not about other players.

 

[Profit]

Look, it's very simple.

MA say VTOL hunting is an exploit.
MA don't say VTOL mining is an exploit.

Therefore;

Is VTOL hunting an exploit? YES
Is VTOL mining an exploit? NO

 

[Profit]

There is no more VTOL exploit. It was a hunting exploit where folks could bypass weapon reload speed, as well as quickly avoid battle damage by entering an air vehicle before their weapon had properly reloaded (I guess it could have been used to drop probes too quickly as well, but that wouldn't be very rewarding ). A large amount of confusion seems to have developed regarding the "VTOL exploit," as folks learned to use it as a blanket term for accusing your enemies of wrongdoing. The real exploit was based on a reloading glitch from years, which has been fixed for quite some time.

While you are correct on most points, your opening statement is wrong.
VTOL exploit in hunting now refers to using VTOL to negate agro of mobs.
It is an exploit. MA have said it's an exploit.
Why is it so hard to understand?

 

[PaulCrystal]

While you are correct on most points, your opening statement is wrong.
VTOL exploit in hunting now refers to using VTOL to negate agro of mobs.
It is an exploit. MA have said it's an exploit.
Why is it so hard to understand?

Oh, everyone understands. There just happens to be a problem with accepting a pointless rule such as this.

 

[Mika]

EDIT: Wrong thread lol