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Question: Explosive bp residue drop

Admiral

Admiral

Alpha
Joined
Nov 17, 2012
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585
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JimJimtrader
Explosive bp drop too much residue right now and that sure will affect market of hunters and miners since it use just trade terminal nanocube , need to be fixed :wise:
 
The effect for hunters and miners should be lower MU on weapons and tools, cant see any harm in that.

Admiral said:
Explosive bp drop too much residue right now and that sure will affect market of hunters and miners since it use just trade terminal nanocube , need to be fixed :wise:
Click to expand...
 
Admiral said:
Explosive bp drop too much residue right now and that sure will affect market of hunters and miners since it use just trade terminal nanocube , need to be fixed :wise:
Click to expand...

I am pretty sure that is the intended effect ( at least on of the intended effects ).

BR
 
Jennson said:
I am pretty sure that is the intended effect ( at least on of the intended effects ).

BR
Click to expand...

Other effects that might happen that perhaps not was intended:

- bigger losses for grinders without the prints
- Huge losses for store owners who stocked up
- Price increase for many blueprints
- Price decrease for many blueprints

And a ton of others which I am too lazy to point out since I'm browsing with my mobile..
 
  • Hunters need cheap crafted weapons
  • Weapons/Tools/Attachment crafters need cheap and readily available residue
  • Condition crafters can't function with high MU ingredients
  • Condition crafters produce a significant amount of residue
  • When Condition crafters craft regular items it destroys the MU and makes it impossible for regular crafters... And then soon no one crafts the item
  • Hunters who use explosives as ammo need cheap explosives

So to rebalance all of this:

  • Explosives were removed from loot
  • Excessive amounts of stackables were removed
  • Shrapnel was introduced and gives an immediate 101% when converted to ammo which is better than everyone just TTing everything
  • Explosives BPs were introduced and they use Nanocubes from the TT, ideal for condition crafters and they will have no problem selling explosives for at or near TT

Now we will see how this new dynamic recalibrates the economy
 
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90% of hunters use looted weapons. It might result in a small decrease in armor/fap costs but not much. Very few use explosive weaponry as their main gun. Oils will take a hit as fewer gamblers click plastic components and regular crafters that do now get less for their res. Overall very little net effect for hunters.

Use of only TT materials removes a huge chunk of mining turnover. Cheaper res means cheaper amps, lower material demand means lower MU. MU on many mining materials will take a pretty big hit.

TT only materials also means gamblers can feed their addictions much easier. This is a pretty bad thing. At least with limited mined material supply they have a chance to sit back and thing about what they are doing. Now its full steam ahead for click click click OH GOD HOW DID I LOSE 50Gs IN THIS GAME? Cue more bad mouthing and casino accusations across the net.



I greatly dislike this change. It shows MA trying more and more to become an active participant in the ped turnover process, instead of just a passive participant. It goes along the same likes as the cash shop stuff and really undermines the hole economic setup. So far the only saving grace is that III and IV bps are very rare.
 
Admiral said:
Explosive bp drop too much residue right now and that sure will affect market of hunters and miners since it use just trade terminal nanocube , need to be fixed :wise:
Click to expand...

Do you really thinking that adding TT FOOD (literally, fucking literally) improves someones "profitz"?

Really? Shrapnel my ass, haha.

"Crafting" based on "resource" from fucking Trade Terminal ONLY - damn "economy"?

Kim|Calypso said:
The portion of TT food gets progressively higher based on the size of the loot, from around 50% up to a maximum of somewhere around 90-95%.
Click to expand...

The quote above is perfect example of current "Player Driven Market" - you really thinking that it is for improvement of your playing experience?

Seems, my dear Economy Experts, if someone will paint dung in gold - you will eat it and will recommend to everyone.
 
Svena said:
I greatly dislike this change. It shows MA trying more and more to become an active participant in the ped turnover process, instead of just a passive participant. It goes along the same likes as the cash shop stuff and really undermines the hole economic setup. So far the only saving grace is that III and IV bps are very rare.
Click to expand...

Don't worry. In past year was nice experiments with "Dynamic CoS", didn't you remember?

From my POV - they greatly fucked up in "natural" market attempts, so they just "simplified" their "points of control" - shrapnel was first - now - brilliant nanocubes.

It's all about simplified (centralized) manual control.
 
Svena said:
Use of only TT materials removes a huge chunk of mining turnover. Cheaper res means cheaper amps, lower material demand means lower MU. MU on many mining materials will take a pretty big hit.
Click to expand...

I don't agree. Some people think that it will occur and already tearing the hair on the ass.
But it is not. If you do not know the answer on question 'why', then you do not yet understand EU. Nothing will fall, because there is still something that you can get in the process of crafting, and it more than all of these ТТ HoF's (Mostly with garnets, Diamonds etc).
 
Svena said:
90% of hunters use looted weapons. It might result in a small decrease in armor/fap costs but not much. Very few use explosive weaponry as their main gun. Oils will take a hit as fewer gamblers click plastic components and regular crafters that do now get less for their res. Overall very little net effect for hunters.

Use of only TT materials removes a huge chunk of mining turnover. Cheaper res means cheaper amps, lower material demand means lower MU. MU on many mining materials will take a pretty big hit.

TT only materials also means gamblers can feed their addictions much easier. This is a pretty bad thing. At least with limited mined material supply they have a chance to sit back and thing about what they are doing. Now its full steam ahead for click click click OH GOD HOW DID I LOSE 50Gs IN THIS GAME? Cue more bad mouthing and casino accusations across the net.



I greatly dislike this change. It shows MA trying more and more to become an active participant in the ped turnover process, instead of just a passive participant. It goes along the same likes as the cash shop stuff and really undermines the hole economic setup. So far the only saving grace is that III and IV bps are very rare.
Click to expand...

i agree completely :yup:
 
Seems not to many know a lot about game design in here. This change is mostly good, sure it might need some tweaks on how much residue is dropping. But cheaper res means cheaper gear for the rest of the community, ie amps will go down in price most likely and thus more will use them and thus more resources are gathered and can be used in manufacturing more amps and weapons. So maybe weapons will be crafter more now so i can find the guns i need to use at my skill level.
 
Legion said:
Seems not to many know a lot about game design in here. This change is mostly good, sure it might need some tweaks on how much residue is dropping. But cheaper res means cheaper gear for the rest of the community, ie amps will go down in price most likely and thus more will use them and thus more resources are gathered and can be used in manufacturing more amps and weapons. So maybe weapons will be crafter more now so i can find the guns i need to use at my skill level.
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You seems most Knolageable™ one.

Open graph for metal res. Meditate on nice price plummet in the middle of current year. Explain, why there was NO guns crafted anyway during that period?
 
dr3w said:
You seems most Knolageable™ one.

Open graph for metal res. Meditate on nice price plummet in the middle of current year. Explain, why there was NO guns crafted anyway during that period?
Click to expand...

Never said i was the most knowledgable one, but i am an educated game designer although i have been more focused on the CEO/project management part.
 
Legion said:
Seems not to many know a lot about game design in here. This change is mostly good, sure it might need some tweaks on how much residue is dropping. But cheaper res means cheaper gear for the rest of the community, ie amps will go down in price most likely and thus more will use them and thus more resources are gathered and can be used in manufacturing more amps and weapons. So maybe weapons will be crafter more now so i can find the guns i need to use at my skill level.
Click to expand...

Well, cheaper residue will probably also mean more expansive enchanters, because with a lower residues price you most sell the enhancers for a higher price and the enhancers are too expansive to craft from the start.
 
Legion said:
Never said i was the most knowledgable one, but i am an educated game designer although i have been more focused on the CEO/project management part.
Click to expand...

That for sure you're close to CEO/PM part, since you even answered on non-existent question, while skipping existed one.

Thx.
 
It will crash residue, as peeps have no idea what to sell their residue at to breakeven. This has been the case for crafting for a VERY long time. 95% of crafters craft at a loss, even those that think they dont. (the maths really isnt that difficult).

So cheap amps results in cheaper ores markups = cheaper all crafted stuff.

Cheaper limited hunting will mean cheaper loot.

95% of players will lose more peds overall.

Rgds

Ace

EDIT: didnt mean to quote drew then
 
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Ace Flyster said:
It will crash residue,
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Already done, not to the bottom yet tho, anyway:

Ace Flyster said:
as peeps have no idea what to sell their residue at to breakeven. This has been the case for crafting for a VERY long time. 95% of crafters craft at a loss, even those that think they dont. (the maths really isnt that difficult).

So cheap amps results in cheaper ores markups = cheaper all crafted stuff.

Cheaper limited hunting will mean cheaper loot.
Click to expand...

and there is the thing:

My opinion - in normal, "healthy" market which is adjusting - resources will go up, if res will go down, and etc. There will be no "falling skies", as it is in reality - something go down, something go up. It's ok.

Also:

LATELY, most crafted stuff for hunt is... not crafted. So residue price (metal) have NO influence on hunt, if there is some craft (AFAIK) - it is ark guns with ANIMAL RES (AFAIK), but even those doesn't crafted, since there is mostly looted guns!

Ace Flyster said:
95% of players will lose more peds overall.
Click to expand...

The funny shit is - doesn't matter what you do - they will lose ANYWAY. It's human nature in EU, and it is OK. MA doesn't need to "adjust" something to make people lose - they (players) will fuckup themself good enough (look at your crafting quote). Instead, MA should "adjust" to keep idi... players as long as possible in game, make them decay and have "fun" around. And this is done very well too!

Now, what is the REAL problem (for MINDARK) in my opinion - it is profiting players and resellers. See - even if they in smaller amounts compared to rest of the playerbase, they too smart. MA isn't big enough to "control" each one, and those smartasses starting to invest, reinvest, and etc, and then suddenly withdrawing significant amount of money.

I especially like latest auction change, when MA tried to counter 100% SB listings - was very funny to watch this shit, but they fucked up and rolled back that new system it seems. I hope for review and reimplementation. (smile.jpg)

So, what Im about in the end?

My opinion: "healthy", normal market for MA is no-no. Try to look at it from this perspective.

Another sexy quote:

Kim|Calypso said:
It is possible, however unlikely, that some stackable items may become too difficult to obtain and if that happens we would take action to counter it. The reason I find this unlikely is that the market has a tendency to adjust itself, if some stackable is becoming scarce chances are someone will try to find the best mob to grind for that particular item. We also haven't restricted the stackables to just one creature, each stackable is shared among a couple of different creatures.
Click to expand...

If someone thinks that they doing from "poker" now "casino" - they mistaken. They converting "poker" to "slots". if you understand what I mean.

And again, I am hope that Im completely mistaken.
 
Ace Flyster said:
It will crash residue, as peeps have no idea what to sell their residue at to breakeven. This has been the case for crafting for a VERY long time. 95% of crafters craft at a loss, even those that think they dont. (the maths really isnt that difficult).

So cheap amps results in cheaper ores markups = cheaper all crafted stuff.

Cheaper limited hunting will mean cheaper loot.

95% of players will lose more peds overall.

Rgds

Ace

EDIT: didnt mean to quote drew then
Click to expand...

Cheaper? I doubt. Several cheap amps like 2,3,5,7? Maybe. 1-2% cheaper, not more. How these 1-2% affects mining? No affect I think, because there is too many stuff (Like Jashonish AP, Dynera Sight and other BP's, which continue to eat all common resources like crazy) used for gambling, with higher click price (for ATH on Dacascos today was used a ton of Duru). Also, Terra Amps, high level amps, Arkdaian Weapon Amps and more others, in which will be used all mining resources. If several resources will drop in MU, miners will move to other places with other resources, all will be balanced again, and all prices will stay as always in +/- 10% deviation.

Edit:
And by the way, I am guided by the rule:
If ores are cheap - burn ores by yourself! Do not sell, do not drop MU!
So I had recieved a couple of HoF and looted several rare BP's...
 
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While I have not crafted the new BP's from nanocubes (seems I still really like skirts) The MU on most things that I craft or have use for, Arkadia Keys, Some Mining Amps, Damage enhancers, Gun amps (hotfoot & Shear Pro X00) most of these mats have not been going down, on the contrary they are actually going up. I have found myself doing more mining to get the resources I need to help me avoid some of the high MU I am currently seeing. Same goes for hunting, I am much more focused on what I want to hunt, as mobs now have distinct items I can focus on, that either offer mu or that I need in daily game play. Over all I am pleased with the new changes and know that over the course of the next couple months, especially after merry mayhem is over, I will have a much better read on the cause and effects of economic changes in the game.

On a side note the Metal Residue factor really gives me a chuckle. For many years a group of avatars have controlled the metal residue market and pushed the price from low to high and back to low etc etc. They do this for a constant profit, just like controlling real world resources such as oil. (when was the last time you paid such a low price at the pump). The group of avatars that have been controlling the metal residue market will simply find another resource they can have control over, maybe it will be Pyrite for damage enhancers, or fine leather for miniskirts, or redulite for level 13 amps. The point is that in order to profit in this game just try and make the right decisions and dont always believe what forum trolls have to say. The way the game changes economically is a good thing and helps to keep it fresh.

Hope you all have a great holiday season, and happy hunting.

Salty
 
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In sound economy all kinds of residue shall be as close to 100 % as possible in order to have minimal impact on prices of L gear, weapons, amps etc which brings lower costs for miners and hunters. With lover cost to cycle activity in that areas will rise. All repeated brings long awaited atabilisations as long as MA will leave something with nice MU and rarity ( rare ores in mining, maybe diamonds or garnets in crafting ).

Those who forgot is MA what sets something rare or common.
 
There no doubt will be winners and losers in any new market variable, however the continuously changing dynamic for all three professions has been a constant in EU since the inception of PE. Adaptation is a fundamental requirement... always has been and always will be. Those who wont adapt will fail.

Some points to ponder:

  • MU% of crafted (L) equipment is too high for most end users
  • MU% of crafted (L) equipment is too low for most crafters
  • Condition crafters as well as poor mathematicians ruin profitable blueprints every time.
  • Low MU% residue allows crafters to be profitable with low MU% crafted items
  • The majority of looted (L) weapons now only have a partial TT value and not full TT

The supply of residue certainly is exceeding the current demand, thus we see a fall in the price. For right now, ores and enmatters are vulnerable to a fall in MU% due to condition crafters migrating over to Explosives Blueprints that use TT Nanocubes. Any possible fall in MU% on ore and enmatter likely will be short lived.

As it is now, the vast majority of blueprints dont get clicked simply because the low MU% of the crafted item combined with the high MU% of Residue required to fill the TT of that item make clicking that blueprint long-term cost prohibitive.

Its very important to consider a proven and fundamental market principle which is: supply creates demand. As a result of that fact, lower Residue MU% gives room for crafters to craft more items for people to use. As the supply of those items increase, so will demand... especially since their looted counterparts now usually only loot with a partial TT value which will cause more and more (L) users to seek out full TT crafted items.

By moving the condition crafters aside and creating a whole new world for them, it appears to me that MindArk is trying to evolve the crafting related elements of the economy away from condition crafting and more towards real crafting meaning clicking on quantity and filling the TT with residue.

If thats correct and if that succeeds, it will be happy days for miners, crafters, and hunters.
 
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With a 100 QR Explosive BP I, what is the most efficient way of crafting it. 100% Condition or 100% quantity.

Terms of skill gain wise and MU wise.
 
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HardWrath said:
Yes, and now others are PMing me too.

Here is what I will say to all of you. A major element or EU is discovery and in order to do that you need to click, a lot of clicking... Explosive BPs are new and there is a very limited and very short lived opportunity with them, so short it may have already come to pass. It's nothing ground breaking, relax... But in this game we play against each other just as much as we are playing against MindArk.

Explosive BP I costs 0.02 PED per click and for Explosive II, it's 0.20 per click. The cost per click is very low and as a result the risk is low as long as you don't play with that slider. Whether you do Quantity or Condition, I recommend a high QR BP.
Click to expand...

Usually people give the "opposite advice" in order for personal gain thus condition crafting with high QR bp is prolly the best way to go.. Although I could be wrong.
 
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