Mining system broken

[slick27]

Since I start to watch result of returns something jump in my eyes.
If terra amp 6 is good for a specific mineral will not be so good for the rest.
Example. Best hits on redulite was with dclass... Level 5 amp was not bad but also not the best. Terra amp 6 is also one that you will find but very rare.
Best MU is find inside of waves. Waves are very short so you need to move fast and cove the spot fast until wave is not done. If you use a more powerfull amp there is a little chance to find that specific type of claim. Unamped is not a problem. Just the period to turn the ped will take forever. If you found the best setup for each material you are searching I belive on the end well be good. Is like on hunting, if you are try very hard to kill a mob with 100 shots will not be the same like kill with 10 shots.
Since 2016-2017 there are no more ath with high MU. If sistem is allowing me to take out per wave lets say 20% of "X" material from a total of 1000 ped wave cap material, why to go way under that %? I just try to find the best setup for each material on each server I go

Irc and I can say this I used terra 6 exclusively in fort argus at certain depth range outside f105 and terra 8 because I found alot unclaimed pyrite sizes. Amps have their uses over terra 8 it's a gamble for high mu stuff from what I seen.

Everyone talks about waves where I see it more as a server refresh as the claims are still their it's just you haven't found the holes so to say in depth and claim sizes at least how I see it. I still go through certain places even after a so called wave and find stuff. Wave implies you can only find stuff between certain times which is not the case if you found holes what people are not mining at.

My mining style irc is fast and short then a break for a few months I just can't stand waiting around for 18 hours a time for a server refresh for high turnover areas or 2 to 3 days for low turnover areas. It makes it more pleasant style for me personally.

 

[The Mind]

I guess ill also express my view on how i see mining is working.

Part 1

1. Drop.
2. System rolls hit or miss based on % (see part 2).
3. If its a hit:
   1. Check for decay.
   2. Roll for mutiplier.
   3. Check for available resources based on depth.
   4. Check for artificial resources caps.
   5. Populate the table of possible outcomes with % chance.
   6. Roll for a final outcome.

Im still not sure about the order of resources vs multiplier. Either way, the outcome is the same.
There is no 2d, no 3d. Single plain process.

Part 2

1. Drop.
2. Hit.
3. Roll for distance.
4. Server makes a note:
   1. Lon: xxxx
   2. Lat: yyyy
   3. Distance: 1-55 m from the drop.
5. Area goes into a cooldown.
6. % hit drops to a minimum available.
7. Gradually recovers to a maximum available during next x time.

 

[InKwL]

Irc and I can say this I used terra 6 exclusively in fort argus at certain depth range outside f105 and terra 8 because I found alot unclaimed pyrite sizes. Amps have their uses over terra 8 it's a gamble for high mu stuff from what I seen.

Everyone talks about waves where I see it more as a server refresh as the claims are still their it's just you haven't found the holes so to say in depth and claim sizes at least how I see it. I still go through certain places even after a so called wave and find stuff. Wave implies you can only find stuff between certain times which is not the case if you found holes what people are not mining at.

My mining style irc is fast and short then a break for a few months I just can't stand waiting around for 18 hours a time for a server refresh for high turnover areas or 2 to 3 days for low turnover areas. It makes it more pleasant style for me personally.

Yeppp...bingo. You catch the point.

 

[The Mind]

It would explain everything.
Studies done by @Ace Flyster and @kingofaces.
Why certain resources are better with certain amps.
Overpopulated areas.
Basically everything ive read for the past 15 years on this forum.

 

[slick27]

I guess ill also express my view on how i see mining is working.

Part 1

1. Drop.
2. System rolls hit or miss based on % (see part 2).
3. If its a hit:
   1. Check for decay.
   2. Roll for mutiplier.
   3. Check for available resources based on depth.
   4. Check for artificial resources caps.
   5. Populate the table of possible outcomes with % chance.
   6. Roll for a final outcome.

Im still not sure about the order of resources vs multiplier. Either way, the outcome is the same.
There is no 2d, no 3d. Single plain process.

Part 2

1. Drop.
2. Hit.
3. Roll for distance.
4. Server makes a note:
   1. Lon: xxx
   2. Lat: yyy
   3. Distance: 1-55 m from the drop.
5. Area goes into a cooldown.
6. % hit drops to a minimum available.
7. Gradually recovers to a maximum available during next x time.

From what indoor mining I did and I did alot on two different characters I don't think location plays into the equation. I don't personally believe in the veins etc but you get clusters which is consistent with bunch random numbers all coming up at the same time. Same can be seen in condition crafting where all sudden you get alot success rates as well as but rarely hofs and Ubers. I mean you could call it a wave but you could also say it's a set wheel after x amount turns produce a steady stream success rates and Uber with the wheels being reset after a server refresh to reflect what was lost previous cycle to be kicked out on new cycle(not character lootpool either just generally).

 

[InKwL]

It would explain everything.
Studies done by @Ace Flyster and @kingofaces.
Why certain resources are better with certain amps.
Overpopulated areas.
Basically everything ive read for the past 15 years on this forum.

Maybe because every material found have his own cap size. Each amp is good for a limited amount of materials found.
To find the best amp that generate the best type of material. If materials was not caped on amp power, all miners will use just big amps. Nobody buy small amps from little crafters and soon players who are on begin in the game will leave.

 

[The Mind]

From what indoor mining I did and I did alot on two different characters I don't think location plays into the equation. I don't personally believe in the veins etc but you get clusters which is consistent with bunch random numbers all coming up at the same time. Same can be seen in condition crafting where all sudden you get alot success rates as well as but rarely hofs and Ubers. I mean you could call it a wave but you could also say it's a set wheel after x amount turns produce a steady stream success rates and Uber.

I think indoor mining rate of regeneration is "boosted". Much faster than planet side.
Yes, rng works in a higher/lower probability clusters.
If you keep tossing a coin, which is complete rng with 2 outcomes, youll get to a point of hitting streaks of 10 or higher.
(people will still blame MA for it )

 

[The Mind]

Maybe because every material found have his own cap size. Each amp is good for a limited amount of materials found.
To find the best amp that generate the best type of material. If materials was not caped on amp power, all miners will use just big amps. Nobody buy small amps from little crafters and soon players who are on begin in the game will leave.

I think hard caps only affect certain resources (rares and extremely rares).
But yes. Finding those with big amps would be impossible by been excluded from the roll (or maybe just an extremely low % chance).

 

[slick27]

I think indoor mining rate of regeneration is "boosted". Much faster than planet side.
Yes, rng works in a higher/lower probability clusters.
If you keep tossing a coin, which is complete rng with 2 outcomes, youll get to a point of hitting streaks of 10 or higher.

I can tell you now monria certainly isn't boosted. I can go round their unamped do all 3 arenas come back 18 hours later and only get a few claims because as I said previously it's not a high turnover area so it takes longer to refresh unless more people are cycling at different depths. The claims are generated from other miners cycling if their isn't many and you are mining at certain depth consistently you will deplete it very quick and get sore ass after a few days.

 

[InKwL]

From what indoor mining I did and I did alot on two different characters I don't think location plays into the equation. I don't personally believe in the veins etc but you get clusters which is consistent with bunch random numbers all coming up at the same time. Same can be seen in condition crafting where all sudden you get alot success rates as well as but rarely hofs and Ubers. I mean you could call it a wave but you could also say it's a set wheel after x amount turns produce a steady stream success rates and Uber with the wheels being reset after a server refresh to reflect what was lost previous cycle to be kicked out on new cycle(not character lootpool either just generally).

Since I start to save the location of some specific materials I did see that are spawned in same place. In argus my redulite claims was in 6 specific spots. Also didnt see others redulite claims in different place from where I found.Same 6 place with a radius of max 100 meters.

 

[The Mind]

I can tell you now monria certainly isn't boosted. I can go round their unamped do all 3 arenas come back 18 hours later and only get a few claims because as I said previously it's not a high turnover area so it takes longer to refresh unless more people are cycling at different depths. The claims are generated from other miners cycling if their isn't many and you mining at certain depth consistently you will deplete it very quick and get sore ass after a few days.

I have a log of 50k drops.
All unamped. All planetside.
I had entire weeks of extremely poor resaults.
Im not discrediting what you are saying. But its hard to tell if what you experienced was the same i did (rng), or it was caused by "other people cycles".
I do remember tho, in hunting 1.0 there were references to the same behavior on unpopular mobs from other planets (lack of cycling produced poor resaults). Maybe, since mining didnt get the overhaul, like hunting did, it still is guided by the old "pool" system.
Regarding Monria, i dont have much experience. Probably you are right there.

 

[slick27]

I have a log of 50k drops.
All unamped. All planetside.
I had entire weeks of extremely poor resaults.
Im not discrediting what you are saying. But its hard to tell if what you experienced was the same i did (rng), or it was caused by "other people cycles".

It could well be I mean I did hit 1.8k iron unamped in foma main arena but consistently monria because it doesn't have high turnover like foma I find after a few days I have depleted all claim sizes ample,sizeable and it really starts to hurt TT wise adding fact I start to see medium claims in indoor it's time to move on let it recover or get amps out and aim for different claim sizes.

 

[slick27]

Since I start to save the location of some specific materials I did see that are spawned in same place. In argus my redulite claims was in 6 specific spots. Also didnt see others redulite claims in different place from where I found.Same 6 place with a radius of max 100 meters.

Your find certain materials can be found in certain places but rng still plays into the equation. Doesn't mean their in the ground physically. Just means when you drop in those areas that material is included in calculation.

 

[InKwL]

Your find certain materials can be found in certain places but rng still plays into the equation. Doesn't mean their in the ground physically.

Because of this I take the shoot.
I want to drop where I know that is maybe something waiting to be found.
The right time and place is vital from my point of view.
If RNG is good the I have luck, if not....next time.

To be able to hit where is needed and dont have problems to be put again and again in a place where I did bomb allready.

 

[The Mind]

It could well be I mean I did hit 1.8k iron unamped in foma main arena but consistently monria because it doesn't have high turnover like foma I find after a few days I have depleted all claim sizes ample,sizeable and it really starts to hurt TT wise adding fact I start to see medium claims in indoor it's time to move on let it recover or get amps out and aim for different claim sizes.

During hunting 1.0 people described similar behavior:
Average mean was much lower (in ~90%), Everything above came from the "pool" and "bonus loot". All of them depended on the cycles of other people and a relative DPP. Like a list of distribution. Higher on the ranking gets more.
People also described that unpopular mobs, from other planets, gave only that 90% back (because of lack of cycling by others, list had only 1 participant, and nothing to redistribute).
Assuming all the professions, back then, had the same logic, and only hunting got a 2.0 rewamp, introducing an objective return measures (weapons efficiency and looting profs), the rest is guided by the same system and would explain your observations.

 

[InKwL]

During hunting 1.0 people described similar behavior:
Average mean was much lower (in ~90%), Everything above came from the "pool" and "bonus loot". All of them depended on the cycles of other people and a relative DPP. Like a list of distribution. Higher on the ranking gets more.
People also described that unpopular mobs, from other planets, gave only that 90% back (because of lack of cycling by others, list had only 1 participant, and nothing to redistribute).
Assuming all the professions, back then, had the same logic, and only hunting got a 2.0 rewamp, introducing an objective return measures (weapons efficiency and looting profs), the rest is guided by the same system and would explain your observations.

Finder is same like a weapon. To claim something you need first to kill/drop. Like dpp on weapons depth is for finders/ dps for weapons are like range for finders. Lysterium is like shrapnel . To have better dps and dpp / range and depth will follow in a better composition of the return. Now put in looter / miner , etc and you can improve what you get at the end. Hunting have a new loot 2.0 items that make more sense to the final run. Mining is still missing. There is a ring but is way overpriced. So mining is still in 1.0

 

[The Mind]

Finder is same like a weapon. To claim something you need first to kill/drop. Like dpp on weapons depth is for finders/ dps for weapons are like range for finders. Lysterium is like shrapnel . To have better dps and dpp / range and depth will follow in a better composition of the return. Now put in looter / miner , etc and you can improve what you get at the end. Hunting have a new loot 2.0 items that make more sense to the final run. Mining is still missing. There is a ring but is way overpriced. So mining is still in 1.0

DPP = depth, i agree.
DPS = range, is complicated. All tho range gives you higher decay, it does it in a much less efficient way than amps.
Range does not contribute to a better composition. You dont get to choose what kind of loot (either "good" or "bad") you add to your roll with increased range.
There are no looter / miner impact in mining. You will get the same resault in mining, as soon as you max your finder, regardless of any level above it.

 

[InKwL]

There are no looter / miner impact in mining. You will get the same resault in mining, as soon as you max your finder, regardless of any level above it.

And this is why mining still working in 1.0.
A new mining 2.0 with boosted ring for mining/ coats and many more will bring more money for MA and also new people who want to take the shot and became a "UBER Miner" . Hunters provide strongbox for rings. Crafters can make UL outfits with dedicated buffs in this way all people have what to work

 

[slick27]

And this is why mining still working in 1.0.
A new mining 2.0 with boosted ring for mining/ coats and many more will bring more money for MA and also new people who want to take the shot and became a "UBER Miner" . Hunters provide strongbox for rings. Crafters can make UL outfits with dedicated buffs in this way all people have what to work

Yes it will bring money for ma but then the cost to play for average miner will increase drastically. Right now someone with 100 dollar a month budget could do mining and make it possibly last the month depending on how many hours etc.

Theirs also a big issue with not enough materials being used up wouldn't support many more miners and lead to decrease in mu. This is why you haven't seen to many UL amps in circulation and the ones you have seen are generally low end to medium ones with a few bigger ones above lvl 5.

They got system already in place if they wanted to a mining event but it's disabled on all planets except ark

 

[The Mind]

And this is why mining still working in 1.0.
A new mining 2.0 with boosted ring for mining/ coats and many more will bring more money for MA and also new people who want to take the shot and became a "UBER Miner" . Hunters provide strongbox for rings. Crafters can make UL outfits with dedicated buffs in this way all people have what to work

They cant introduce items with "boosted" stats alone. When they did it in hunting 1.0 it broke the system to the point of people getting positive TT returns.
They would need to rework stat/skill impact first (with hard cap in mind), and after introduce items to boost them.

 

[R4tt3xx]

Your hit rate and claim size are what determine your returns.

If they are not tracked then you can technically achieve near perfect hit rates and greater than perfect returns by mastering the mining system by solving for where MindArk places mining nodes, the algorithm that distributes them in 3D space and what are their respawn times. It would be predictable given enough data.

If they are tracked, it doesn't matter what you do, you'll always be capped by what the system allows you to pull out.

So much effing work, just for MA to change the location of these so called "nodes"...

 

[JohnCapital]

SOLVE THIS PROBLEM MINDARK

Short response: Mining isn't broken. There's something wrong with your situation on a personal level. Likely an ISP or latency issue you aren't finding. Or you shouldn't running a new mining bot when you are sleeping. Or you are lying to stir drama 'cause #boredom. Dunno and don't really care.

Here's my mining results for the past few months. Same gear. Same location. Mining at the same time.

Nov 2023
Runs - 14
TT Spent - 14,218.08
TT Return - 13,915.59
% Results - 97.87

Dec 2023
Runs - 11
TT Spent - 12,404.30
TT Return - 11,844.35
% Results - 95.49

Jan 2024
Runs - 1
TT Spent - 1,127.96
TT Return - 1,336.73
% Results - 118.51

Feb 2024
Runs - 6
TT Spent - 6,714.43
TT Return - 7,495.92
% Results - 111.64

March 2024
Runs - 8
TT Spent - 8,949.78
TT Return - 8,182.18
% Results - 91.42

April 2024
Runs - 3
TT Spent - 4,496.10
TT Return - 5,070.76
% Results - 112.78

Overall
Runs - 43
TT Spent - 47,910.65
TT Return - 47,845.53
% Results - 99.86

Good results. Why not mine a lot more and get wealthy? Simple. I got a job and other things that take up my time.

As for all these theories.... Whatever. Enjoy making them and testing them. I've done my tests and in my opinion, many of you way overthink things.

 

[InKwL]

Short response: Mining isn't broken. There's something wrong with your situation on a personal level. Likely an ISP or latency issue you aren't finding. Or you shouldn't running a new mining bot when you are sleeping. Or you are lying to stir drama 'cause #boredom. Dunno and don't really care.

Here's my mining results for the past few months. Same gear. Same location. Mining at the same time.


% Results - 99.86

Good results. Why not mine a lot more and get wealthy? Simple. I got a job and other things that take up my time.

As for all these theories.... Whatever. Enjoy making them and testing them. I've done my tests and in my opinion, many of you way overthink things.

Try to do a 6k mining in a single day and not a month and we speak later about returns. In short time and also ped I am still have good returns.

My account is played only by me not 2,3 or 4 persons like others.
I play when time let me do this. Usually I work and also have a family.
Do exist bots for mining? To drop and extract claims?
The problem was from game client and I hope is fixed after the new setup I have did.

 

[The Mind]

Short response: Mining isn't broken. There's something wrong with your situation on a personal level. Likely an ISP or latency issue you aren't finding. Or you shouldn't running a new mining bot when you are sleeping. Or you are lying to stir drama 'cause #boredom. Dunno and don't really care.

Here's my mining results for the past few months. Same gear. Same location. Mining at the same time.

Nov 2023
Runs - 14
TT Spent - 14,218.08
TT Return - 13,915.59
% Results - 97.87

Dec 2023
Runs - 11
TT Spent - 12,404.30
TT Return - 11,844.35
% Results - 95.49

Jan 2024
Runs - 1
TT Spent - 1,127.96
TT Return - 1,336.73
% Results - 118.51

Feb 2024
Runs - 6
TT Spent - 6,714.43
TT Return - 7,495.92
% Results - 111.64

March 2024
Runs - 8
TT Spent - 8,949.78
TT Return - 8,182.18
% Results - 91.42

April 2024
Runs - 3
TT Spent - 4,496.10
TT Return - 5,070.76
% Results - 112.78

Overall
Runs - 43
TT Spent - 47,910.65
TT Return - 47,845.53
% Results - 99.86

Good results. Why not mine a lot more and get wealthy? Simple. I got a job and other things that take up my time.

As for all these theories.... Whatever. Enjoy making them and testing them. I've done my tests and in my opinion, many of you way overthink things.

When i had those numbers i also thought people who cycled more were exaggerating.
When i scaled up... oh boy if i was wrong. Some swings are just.... wild.
And you cant help yourself but ask... where it went wrong? Because i was doing everything the same way i did it before.
Its really hard to survive those lows.

 

[slick27]

Try to do a 6k mining in a single day and not a month and we speak later about returns. In short time and also ped I am still have good returns.

My account is played only by me not 2,3 or 4 persons like others.
I play when time let me do this. Usually I work and also have a family.
Do exist bots for mining? To drop and extract claims?
The problem was from game client and I hope is fixed after the new setup I have did.

yes bots do exist they normally around fort argus in open areas and odd occasion the less sophisticated ones get stuck in trees when you get those odd claims that are well outside 50 meter range.

 

[The Great Adventurer]

Considering ma has clearly stated theirs no personal loot pool

They never defined the term loot pool or did they?

Yes, rng works in a higher/lower probability clusters.
If you keep tossing a coin, which is complete rng with 2 outcomes, youll get to a point of hitting streaks of 10 or higher.

So much effing work, just for MA to change the location of these so called "nodes"...

Go read various patch notes when they adjust mining system. It's always referred to as nodes.

"Mining nodes around the biome islands moved to the old volcano"
"Adjusted lootable pvp mining nodes"

 

[Rattler Llama]

Since I start to watch result of returns something jump in my eyes.
If terra amp 6 is good for a specific mineral will not be so good for the rest.
Example. Best hits on redulite was with dclass... Level 5 amp was not bad but also not the best. Terra amp 6 is also one that you will find but very rare.
Best MU is find inside of waves. Waves are very short so you need to move fast and cove the spot fast until wave is not done. If you use a more powerfull amp there is a little chance to find that specific type of claim. Unamped is not a problem. Just the period to turn the ped will take forever. If you found the best setup for each material you are searching I belive on the end well be good. Is like on hunting, if you are try very hard to kill a mob with 100 shots will not be the same like kill with 10 shots.
Since 2016-2017 there are no more ath with high MU. If sistem is allowing me to take out per wave lets say 20% of "X" material from a total of 1000 ped wave cap material, why to go way under that %? I just try to find the best setup for each material on each server I go

This. So clear to see that you go big amping at Fort Argus which is a highly overmined area and expected hit rate+tt return is lower.
Read this: https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...ning-before-you-affects-your-hit-rate.265523/

Since your entropialife is hidden I can't help you more than advice you to read other threads under mining section. Besides: Your data is horrible, and I see a pattern here of strapping on a big amp and dropping without adapting to results.

 

[The Mind]

They never defined the term loot pool or did they?



Go read various patch notes when they adjust mining system. It's always referred to as nodes.

"Mining nodes around the biome islands moved to the old volcano"
"Adjusted lootable pvp mining nodes"

Wording from patch notes wont cut it. It can refer to anything: from a server to a zone distribution, as a single "node".
I feel like you are stack in a visual representation of things, forgetting that its just a code behind it, in text format. And creating a 3d world with nodes and all those complicated stories is not practical. Easiest way to do it is by a simple rng roll based on inputs. Like every other MMO created back then.

 

[WolfStar]

There are better tools for the same job. L and UL ones.

FYI when you do the testing, claims only exist on a 2-d plane on the x,y coordinates. You can easily check this by "clearing" an area with a shallow finder then using a deep finder on those exact same coordinates in a short period of time (generally no claims with the deeper finder). Depth doesn't change hit rate or anything, just the availability of resource types after you find a claim. Depth is somewhat similar to DPP in hunting where it changes loot composition, but doesn't change when you find any claim at all. Still different mechanics, but sometimes it helps for illustration.

I can drop probe 5 m from claim and hit next one that got more resource of same type. Soooo?

 

[The Great Adventurer]

Wording from patch notes wont cut it. It can refer to anything: from a server to a zone distribution, as a single "node".
I feel like you are stack in a visual representation of things, forgetting that its just a code behind it, in text format. And creating a 3d world with nodes and all those complicated stories is not practical. Easiest way to do it is by a simple rng roll based on inputs. Like every other MMO created back then.

Just because you do not understand doesn't make it complicated. I find it rather simplistic.