No 'pornographic content' but ....?

[Argh non Ral]

Mindark stated in EULA that we are not allowed to upload 'pornographic content'.
While still waiting for support case where they supposed to specify it more precisely what that means,
I would like to ask the community:

What do you think, where is the line between normal content, artistic akt, erotic art or the not allowed pornography?

We have kiddos ingame under 18, but we have calamusoids and even boorums

Now what should I upload from my works?
Should I upload flower makros only so there will be no problem from them?

 

[RedBlack]

Eh im sure this subject has been argued throughout the ages art and its boundaries . . . there is an obvious difference, you just have to figure it out for yourself, and other for themselves.

 

[Krrk]

If the length doesn't exceed boorums then it isn't pornography.

 

[Sirhc]

Its hard to define what is pornographic worldwide. Nudity may be considered pornographic in some cultures while others don't have a problem with it. My definition pornography is usually something which involves a blantant sexual act or exposure which is blantantly sexual. While many of the mutants are naked in EU and there is alot of questionable symbology in the landscape the only place I have seen something of an Erotic nature which might blur the lines to Pornography is in the Bilton Towers Wall papers.

Now if the Mutants were caught in flagrante delicto it might be a little over the top but other wise they are just a bunch of naked mutated people running around and in reality we are all naked under our clothes lol.

I have an artistic view of nudity so I don't really see it as pornography unless its taken to that level and that level is different for each and everyone of us.

I have seen more things in prime time TV that I would consider pornographic and unfit for children more than anything I have seen in EU.

So the EU pin ups, Boorums, Calamusoids, some of the Oxford art, and the sexual symbology dotted through out the EU landscape may push the envelope a bit but that depends on your own personal culture. I would use anything in EU as a gauge as to what I would upload if I feel its going beyond anything I currently see then I might be going to far. Another thing to think of is all of these things are drawn or modelled after something in RL. Uploading a RL picture of a nude might be pushing it but that is for MA to decide.

 

[NetStalker]

Its hard to define what is pornographic worldwide. Nudity may be considered pornographic in some cultures while others don't have a problem with it. My definition pornography is usually something which involves a blantant sexual act or exposure which is blantantly sexual. While many of the mutants are naked in EU and there is alot of questionable symbology in the landscape the only place I have seen something of an Erotic nature which might blur the lines to Pornography is in the Bilton Towers Wall papers.

Now if the Mutants were caught in flagrante delicto it might be a little over the top but other wise they are just a bunch of naked mutated people running around and in reality we are all naked under our clothes lol.

I have an artistic view of nudity so I don't really see it as pornography unless its taken to that level and that level is different for each and everyone of us.

I have seen more things in prime time TV that I would consider pornographic and unfit for children more than anything I have seen in EU.

So the EU pin ups, Boorums, Calamusoids, some of the Oxford art, and the sexual symbology dotted through out the EU landscape may push the envelope a bit but that depends on your own personal culture. I would use anything in EU as a gauge as to what I would upload if I feel its going beyond anything I currently see then I might be going to far. Another thing to think of is all of these things are drawn or modelled after something in RL. Uploading a RL picture of a nude might be pushing it but that is for MA to decide.

Sirhc is right on the money in my opinion.

Penetration, fondeling, kiddie porn, animals, anything that violates anothers boundry, and tasteless. No need for this to be in game, if you want to view it, play with dual monitors and have it showing on the second monitor all the time for your viewing pleasure.

Regards,

 

[andyzammy]

thing is, u can take ur clothes off ur avatar, god knows how many lil kids we have loggin on to find avi's with a seduce miniskirt so they can tilt the camera to look up it and jerk off to their hearts content.

abolishing porn, while its a good thing, is pretty pointless imo, cause theres so much in game thats already over the line

 

[Sionkiewicz]

I find it laughable that the same people who paid an artist to create Erotic wallpaper depicting several sexual positions for use in their Apartments are now trying to play the decency card. They already have set the bar to be judged by.

 

[Iset]

I think that when it comes to the defenition of pornography, it depends on what the intended reaction is.

If you create a work with the sole purpose of people getting off; then that in my opinion is pornography. However, if you create a piece that happens to have nudity in it, but you are trying to convey some other artistic expression, then it is not.

But that I suppose all depends on how well the artist can convey their idea. Besides, if nudity is not just in nature on Earth but on Calypso as well (i.e. Boorums), then nudity itself is not pornography. But then of course, the discussion starts as to what is "tasteful" etc.... a whole new can of worms

Cheers,

Iset

 

[Vedder]

Hmm.. Lots of potential new 'players' if MA floods EU with pr0n.

He he... But even MA don't dare to make *that* move, I'm sure.

 

[Argh non Ral]

In my opinion, ART where
- primary genital organs are not displayed in premier plane,
- or not in 'action'
- and has additional artistic content and meaning
is not pornography.

Sirhc has the point.

Another thing to think of is all of these things are drawn or modelled after something in RL. Uploading a RL picture of a nude might be pushing it but that is for MA to decide.

...and i waiting for their answer.

I am against porn, and would hate to see PE flooded with it like the game... er where you can fly.

 

[Midnght]

I'm right up there with ya. What IS acceptable.

In the end it boils down to EU's point of view for getting banned this is a horrible position to be in.

Examples

A Nude be it drawn or photo is not porn.

But something depeicting a sexual act is considered porn.
This is where I have a problem.

See photos of people copulating is porn (porn the term is mostly aimed at RL images and movies not artistic images)

Artisitic images are classified erotica. By definition porn and erotica are the same thing. To me they are not.

But then you have comic books which is art that are purely porn.
so art and porn have blurred from the art of old I call erotica.

Problem is if i were to upload a 200 or 300 year old artistic work of erotica it would likely be seen as porn. Or would it?

Many people and groups today classify pinup art as porn. Most sensible folk don't it's designed to titlate but it's not porn.

Also does MA really care?

I mean lets look at this in an RL perspective. I own an apt I can make my apt not public. So why can't I put pron in my own APT and my guests can view it.
Selling it to others and watchign it proliferate would signal to EU I'm violating their EULA IMHO. but if i keep it in the privacy of my own APT who does it hurt?

Despite anything EU has in game I think this is your best guide.


Nudity is okay.

Showing depictions of people etc having actual sex is not.

The blur here is intimated sex scense one were they are in the act of going to hqave sex but there's no penetration of close ups of penetration.
this line you will have to walk the risk on your own as will everyone else unless EU gives us some way to submit works for an approval to be uploaded if we feel it's borderline.

But if you want to be safe don't include the borderline at all either.

And those who say nudity is porn well just laugh and walk away cause they're too stupid to have an adult comprehension.


As for the whole children thing. The eula is quite clear you need adult approval. If you don't have it or an adult sees somethign they don't want their child to see yet they signed them up. Well to fricking bad. We can only hope EU follows this same logic and sends those adults and their children packing.

 

[Hurrikane]

..everything's porn with enough imagination



I see what folk are saying; ok, Porn is that which is blatantly sexual or tastelessly graphic, but at what level do we set "blatant" or "tasteless"?

In a world where the Jackass boys smear poo on other, and every PC is used for watching porn (ok, four aren't, but they're owned by Nuns in the Antartic), many would argue that boundaries of taste have all but dissappeared; but of course, in many countries not so tuned into western ideals, just plain nudity is seen as wrong. Of course in some places nudity is frowned upon while public execution and ritual mutilations are seen as perfectly acceptable. Everyone has a different take. It always makes me laugh when the BBC report complaints about their more extreme tv shows; even "huge" numbers like 10,000 complaints should not influence anything, when 7 million others watched it and thought it fine.

Porn to me is anything erotic that I would hide if my mum came round. If only this was a testable criteria

Hurrikane

 

[Midnght]

..everything's porn with enough imagination



I see what folk are saying; ok, Porn is that which is blatantly sexual or tastelessly graphic, but at what level do we set "blatant" or "tasteless"?

In a world where the Jackass boys smear poo on other, and every PC is used for watching porn (ok, four aren't, but they're owned by Nuns in the Antartic), many would argue that boundaries of taste have all but dissappeared; but of course, in many countries not so tuned into western ideals, just plain nudity is seen as wrong. Of course in some places nudity is frowned upon while public execution and ritual mutilations are seen as perfectly acceptable. Everyone has a different take. It always makes me laugh when the BBC report complaints about their more extreme tv shows; even "huge" numbers like 10,000 complaints should not influence anything, when 7 million others watched it and thought it fine.

Porn to me is anything erotic that I would hide if my mum came round. If only this was a testable criteria

Hurrikane

Well smearing poo on each other isn't porn to me but yeah it is to some mostly it's just vile.

As for mom. Heh well see in that case 200 year old erotic japanese art I can put up. I don't hide thes e images hanging on my wall form my mother if she were to visit. Heck they're in my bedroom.

If you want to see a few images of what i'm talking about pm me and i'll send you the link. Posting it here woudl not be a good idea I do think despite my own views and opinions.

 

[goldpython]

As was mentioned above, it's an old discussion. In the US, the criteria was defined in the case that lifted the ban of publication—or perhaps, just the sale—of James Joyce's Ulysses. Porn was described as material designed to provoke sexual excitement, and so, the crux of it, in the US anyway, speaks to intent, rather than actual content.

 

[Hurrikane]

As was mentioned above, it's an old discussion. In the US, the criteria was defined in the case that lifted the ban of publication—or perhaps, just the sale—of James Joyce's Ulysses. Porn was described as material designed to provoke sexual excitement, and so, the crux of it, in the US anyway, speaks to intent, rather than actual content.

LOL as Bill Hicks said so wisely; "...no artistic merit, designed to promote sexual thought... that's every beer commercial you've ever seen."

 

[Midnght]

As was mentioned above, it's an old discussion. In the US, the criteria was defined in the case that lifted the ban of publication—or perhaps, just the sale—of James Joyce's Ulysses. Porn was described as material designed to provoke sexual excitement, and so, the crux of it, in the US anyway, speaks to intent, rather than actual content.

Hehe that's an interesting case one which can never be proven unless you ask the artist.

So if i just causually doodle a sexual act on a napkin then it's not porn because it was just a doodle i didn't draw it intending to stimulate.

hahaha leave it to us in the US to make such an odd way to rationlaize porn and art.

 

[ano]

difference between art and pornography? A government grant.

 

[Doer]

That which arouses is pornography; that which enlightens is art.




Obviously that logical definition precludes legislation, standardization, or regulation...

 

[andyzammy]

That which arouses is pornography; that which enlightens is art.

lol, whats the difference?

... would be an awesome chat up line that: "you enlighten me "
"you arouse me" is an ok one too

 

[Midnght]

That which arouses is pornography; that which enlightens is art.




Obviously that logical definition precludes legislation, standardization, or regulation...

That's not entirely true though.

The term porn was originated in the 60s as an aberviation fo the term pornography form the 50's

and agian by your definition the kama sutra is not porn. It was created to enlighten yet it's full of sexually explicit images many will slap the label of porn on.

Just because they created a new term and labeled it with the same over all definition of erotic does not make everything porn.

One coudl go to so far as to say it's only porn if it was created after the 50's }:>P

All those before hand are not. But then agian that doesn't work. the def for porn is bad pure and simple and needs more serious definition. But this is my opinion.

And to say something that has not literary or artisitc value other than to stimulate sexual desire, is porn, is ridiculous.

It agains tells you that anything you can create with literary and artistic value is not porn when by todays standards the images of the karma sutra and various hindu statues on temples was cleary designed ot stilmulate but at the same time teach and would be and is considered by most modern day prudes to be porn. Yet that would be wrong as it has literary and artistic value not designed to solely to stimulate sexual desire.

 

[Iset]

That which arouses is pornography; that which enlightens is art.

That is a much more eloquent way of saying what I was trying to...

 

[Doer]

That's not entirely true though.

The term porn was originated in the 60s as an aberviation fo the term pornography form the 50's

and agian by your definition the kama sutra is not porn. It was created to enlighten yet it's full of sexually explicit images many will slap the label of porn on.

....

It agains tells you that anything you can create with literary and artistic value is not porn when by todays standards the images of the karma sutra and various hindu statues on temples was cleary designed ot stilmulate but at the same time teach and would be and is considered by most modern day prudes to be porn. Yet that would be wrong as it has literary and artistic value not designed to solely to stimulate sexual desire.

You're missing my point, and when the english word was coined is completely irrelevant. My definition is a personal definition. If i find a text on the Kama Sutra arousing then it is porn, regardless of the intent of the writers. If you find it simply enlightening, it is art.

That's why it is impossible to completely regulate porn. Legislators may define "hardcore porn" and ban it, but it won't stop a 14-year-old pubescent boy from being turned on by the Glamour cover photo or a pedophile from drooling over some kindergarten class photo.

Of course it's all academic because in this case MA is the judge, jury, and prosecutor.

 

[Midnght]

You're missing my point, and when the english word was coined is completely irrelevant. My definition is a personal definition. If i find a text on the Kama Sutra arousing then it is porn, regardless of the intent of the writers. If you find it simply enlightening, it is art.

That's why it is impossible to completely regulate porn. Legislators may define "hardcore porn" and ban it, but it won't stop a 14-year-old pubescent boy from being turned on by the Glamour cover photo or a pedophile from drooling over some kindergarten class photo.

Of course it's all academic because in this case MA is the judge, jury, and prosecutor.

Truer words were never said. }:>)

 

[Scorpion]

I don't think the two can be distinguished. Art can be tastless and what some consider porn can be plainly beautiful. Cultures and personal beliefs vary and no one can define either for the world. I can't really define the two to myself.

I don't remember the photographer but it was a series of women sitting in front of white backgrounds, legs bent up towards there bodies but spread open. The name of the collection was "flowers". The focus was on the female genitalia. The lighting varied between pieces for effect. I found it beautiful and arousing, I would also call it art.

Art often exists for its own sake, Jackson Pollock, Claude Monet for example.
Some pieces may enlighten or inspire, show us something else but many pieces are about aesthetics, focus, composition, planes, media used, ink or pastels, shutterspeed, intensity, lifelike or over done, deep or shallow, shading/cuts, light, to name some qualities.
Just my views and opinions. I don't expect people to agree.

Edit: I was thinking about this and realized I didn't post anything but my thoughts on art.

I would guess MA simply doesn't want anything showing the act of sex blatantly, or any other sexual aspects outside the social norm that could be found offensive. I doubt they will care or do anything about pieces in game unless complaints are made. Maybe there is leeway for items being shown in estates vs. publicly.

 

[Argh non Ral]

Ladies and Gentlemen,
Mindark's answer on subject arrived:

03 Apr 2007 Entropia Support:
...
Your second issue is a bit more complicated. What is considered pornographic has to be handled from case to case. If you want us to check the images before uploading them to the Entropia Universe (to avoid possible problems), please send them attached to Support_Info@mindark.com. Please add *support case number removed* as subject.

Regards,
Entropia Support

I will try to inform you about the progress and i hope you can see online what pictures accepted.

 

[kalanen]

If the length doesn't exceed boorums then it isn't pornography.

It aint the length but the angle.

 

[The-Onciest]

Mindark stated in EULA that we are not allowed to upload 'pornographic content'.
While still waiting for support case where they supposed to specify it more precisely what that means,
I would like to ask the community:

What do you think, where is the line between normal content, artistic akt, erotic art or the not allowed pornography?

We have kiddos ingame under 18, but we have calamusoids and even boorums

Now what should I upload from my works?
Should I upload flower makros only so there will be no problem from them?

Just take something of theirs and turn it into something new. ^^

For example: https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61955

 

[goldpython]

Hehe that's an interesting case one which can never be proven unless you ask the artist.

So if i just causually doodle a sexual act on a napkin then it's not porn because it was just a doodle i didn't draw it intending to stimulate.

hahaha leave it to us in the US to make such an odd way to rationlaize porn and art.

From AskOxford.com:

pornography



• noun printed or visual material intended to stimulate sexual excitement.
[SIZE=-1]— DERIVATIVES[/SIZE] pornographer [SIZE=-1]noun[/SIZE] pornographic [SIZE=-1]adjective[/SIZE]. [SIZE=-1]— ORIGIN[/SIZE] Greek pornographos ‘writing about prostitutes’.


That's a very English (not US) source.

 

[kira-red]

Mindark's answer on subject arrived:

hahahahahaha. ...which basically says: "we can't define it, but we'll know when we see it". hahhahahahahah

I guess, for everyone to be safe and avoid EULA violations and possible locks, anytime you wish to upload PC to MA, you'd best send it to support first - just to see that it doesn't violate some rule that they can't tell you about.

 

[Midnght]

From AskOxford.com:

pornography



• noun printed or visual material intended to stimulate sexual excitement.
[SIZE=-1]— DERIVATIVES[/SIZE] pornographer [SIZE=-1]noun[/SIZE] pornographic [SIZE=-1]adjective[/SIZE]. [SIZE=-1]— ORIGIN[/SIZE] Greek pornographos ‘writing about prostitutes’.


That's a very English (not US) source.

Interesting even older origin that means something entirely different than the abreviations used to day of the word figures as much.

Art about prostitues hahaha Is bad m'kay. hehe