Mining system broken

[The Mind]

is lbml working after interface update? for me - not, thats provoke me to write my own mapping tool for mark drops and coverage

Everything works except for the automatic tracking of coordinates.
Now you have to update your position manually. A little bit tedious at the beggining but, after getting used, its the same as before.

 

[MikeH]

is lbml working after interface update? for me - not, thats provoke me to write my own mapping tool for mark drops and coverage

It's working perfectly checked few 2-3 days ago .
Btw I will say mining is not broken don't touch it

 

[MikeH]

Everything works except for the automatic tracking of coordinates.

Auto tracking working with latest version u have to manually set the x and y of radar

 

[The Mind]

Auto tracking working with latest version u have to manually set the x and y of radar

Oh, great to know. Ty

 

[kingofaces]

is lbml working after interface update? for me - not, thats provoke me to write my own mapping tool for mark drops and coverage

It's working just fine (was a pretty quick turnaround since the UI update), though you likely need to update to the newest version. It'll give you a notification if you open LBML and it's out of date.

 

[kingofaces]

There is so many reasons for avatar desync... here is a few.

• Your network is unreliable
• The pc running the game is under powered
• Graphics settings to high
• The network speed setting is to high or to low in the game launcher tools window

This isnt a full list of course, just the main stuff that tends to cause problems

I wonder about that too. Personally I've never had these kinds of lag issues mining except maybe a decade ago when I used spotty wifi provided by my apartment that was dropping out repeatedly (but quickly enough I didn't notice during regular internet use). I also couldn't craft overnight because I would always get disconnected at some point.

If anything, I've had fewer instances of rubberbanding in the last few years even with vehicles or speed buffs.

 

[InKwL]

I did change some setings and I see a better improve. I will try to adjust to find the best setings.

Lets hope will last for a long time

 

[The Great Adventurer]

FYI when you do the testing, claims only exist on a 2-d plane on the x,y coordinates. You can easily check this by "clearing" an area with a shallow finder then using a deep finder on those exact same coordinates in a short period of time (generally no claims with the deeper finder). Depth doesn't change hit rate or anything, just the availability of resource types after you find a claim. Depth is somewhat similar to DPP in hunting where it changes loot composition, but doesn't change when you find any claim at all. Still different mechanics, but sometimes it helps for illustration.

I've tested Rookie > F102 > F104 > TM3 > TM5 all in the same spot and have hit resources at different depths. It's rare and there doesn't seem to be many occurences of resource stacking but it's possible.

The z coordinate is used in mining and claims are distributed in 3D space the same way mobs are spawned in Space.

It's a sphere explosion that is used for the search area. Probe descends down to avg search depth, explodes and a sphere is created checking for resources within its explosion radius in all directions x,y,z. It finds first claim closest to the center, you can drop again with same finder and hit another claim that was in search area but further from center point of explosion.

 

[The Mind]

I've tested Rookie > F102 > F104 > TM3 > TM5 all in the same spot and have hit resources at different depths. It's rare and there doesn't seem to be many occurences of resource stacking but it's possible.

The z coordinate is used in mining and claims are distributed in 3D space the same way mobs are spawned in Space.

It's a sphere explosion that is used for the search area. Probe descends down to avg search depth, explodes and a sphere is created checking for resources within its explosion radius in all directions x,y,z. It finds first claim closest to the center, you can drop again with same finder and hit another claim that was in search area but further from center point of explosion.

There are instances of multiple claims in the area of a drop.
Did you drop till you get nrf and proceeded to the next finder, or did you drop once per finder?

 

[The Great Adventurer]

There are instances of multiple claims in the area of a drop.
Did you drop till you get nrf and proceeded to the next finder, or did you drop once per finder?

While testing, if I found a claim I would drop again until NRF then move to next finder. It's also worth noting I chose those specific finders to further space out the search depths so there was no overlap.

Technically you could also add in finders of other depths and move to catch the empty 3D space that is left when stacking spheres on-top of one another.

OOOOOO
-OOOOO-
(vertical instead of horizontal)

 

[Theocles]

Just drop bombs in lootable, I will handle the rest.

 

[kingofaces]

I've tested Rookie > F102 > F104 > TM3 > TM5 all in the same spot and have hit resources at different depths. It's rare and there doesn't seem to be many occurences of resource stacking but it's possible.

The z coordinate is used in mining and claims are distributed in 3D space the same way mobs are spawned in Space.

It's a sphere explosion that is used for the search area. Probe descends down to avg search depth, explodes and a sphere is created checking for resources within its explosion radius in all directions x,y,z. It finds first claim closest to the center, you can drop again with same finder and hit another claim that was in search area but further from center point of explosion.

Yeah, that you rarely hit something is exactly why I mentioned it's 2D. If you mine at a couple sets of coordinates with a shallow finder, go back with a deep one, and repeat this, there should not be a statistical difference in the percent of claims between the shallow and deep finders if claims were independently spread across depth or had a 3D sphere effect rather than 2D. That doesn't happen though. Instead you're looking at a difference of ~30% vs. ~5% most of the time.

What causes the rare "stacking" in that design is just likely respawning, just like why we didn't get 0% HR in the testing in my signature. It's not going to be exactly zero (zero is not great for statistical tests anyways), but it's still significantly lower.

 

[The Great Adventurer]

Yeah, that you rarely hit something is exactly why I mentioned it's 2D. If you mine at a couple sets of coordinates with a shallow finder, go back with a deep one, and repeat this, there should not be a statistical difference in the percent of claims between the shallow and deep finders if claims were independently spread across depth or had a 3D sphere effect rather than 2D. That doesn't happen though. Instead you're looking at a difference of ~30% vs. ~5% most of the time.

What causes the rare "stacking" in that design is just likely respawning, just like why we didn't get 0% HR in the testing in my signature. It's not going to be exactly zero (zero is not great for statistical tests anyways), but it's still significantly lower.

If your assumptions are correct then MA tracks your returns and even by sitting in the same spot and just dropping probe after probe after probe you'll eventually hit claims that respawn large enough to make up for most of the loss from all the NRF.

I'm not about to test that as the swings could be in the +10k PED range before something happens.

 

[The Mind]

If your assumptions are correct then MA tracks your returns and even by sitting in the same spot and just dropping probe after probe after probe you'll eventually hit claims that respawn large enough to make up for most of the loss from all the NRF.

I'm not about to test that as the swings could be in the +10k PED range before something happens.

Tests have been done already by @Ace Flyster and they do not reflect such behavior.

 

[slick27]

Yeah, that you rarely hit something is exactly why I mentioned it's 2D. If you mine at a couple sets of coordinates with a shallow finder, go back with a deep one, and repeat this, there should not be a statistical difference in the percent of claims between the shallow and deep finders if claims were independently spread across depth or had a 3D sphere effect rather than 2D. That doesn't happen though. Instead you're looking at a difference of ~30% vs. ~5% most of the time.

What causes the rare "stacking" in that design is just likely respawning, just like why we didn't get 0% HR in the testing in my signature. It's not going to be exactly zero (zero is not great for statistical tests anyways), but it's still significantly lower.

From what I seen on indoor mining stacking is normally by claim size. You can go over the same area without effecting your hit rate as long as the claim size doesn't over lap if that makes sense. I still do this in places and other places I know are heavy mined I try to avoid d class and lvl 5 and aim for higher claim sizes if it pays to % wise.

 

[The Great Adventurer]

Tests have been done already by @Ace Flyster and they do not reflect such behavior.

How many drops?

 

[The Mind]

How many drops?

Just read it. It’s on this forum. Was a part of the conversation about @kingofaces research on a hit rate testing.

 

[kingofaces]

If your assumptions are correct then MA tracks your returns and even by sitting in the same spot and just dropping probe after probe after probe you'll eventually hit claims that respawn large enough to make up for most of the loss from all the NRF.

I'm not about to test that as the swings could be in the +10k PED range before something happens.

That had nothing to do MA tracking returns, quite the opposite.

If you do something to tank your HR, claim size doesn’t change to compensate. If someone does wants to claim MA does track avatar returns to that degree in loot compensation, they could test it that way. MA says no though, and I haven’t seen any data suggesting it either.

 

[The Great Adventurer]

That had nothing to do MA tracking returns, quite the opposite.

If you do something to tank your HR, claim size doesn’t change to compensate. If someone does wants to claim MA does track avatar returns to that degree in loot compensation, they could test it that way. MA says no though, and I haven’t seen any data suggesting it either.

Your hit rate and claim size are what determine your returns.

If they are not tracked then you can technically achieve near perfect hit rates and greater than perfect returns by mastering the mining system by solving for where MindArk places mining nodes, the algorithm that distributes them in 3D space and what are their respawn times. It would be predictable given enough data.

If they are tracked, it doesn't matter what you do, you'll always be capped by what the system allows you to pull out.

 

[slick27]

Your hit rate and claim size are what determine your returns.

If they are not tracked then you can technically achieve near perfect hit rates and greater than perfect returns by mastering the mining system by solving for where MindArk places mining nodes, the algorithm that distributes them in 3D space and what are their respawn times. It would be predictable given enough data.

If they are tracked, it doesn't matter what you do, you'll always be capped by what the system allows you to pull out.

I don't personally think it would be possible without actually looking at the internals of the server.

Reason why is because other players will effect your return depending on their own success. As any mining claims generated over a time frame is from decay from other miners. If you managed to find a server on your own don't bother testing. I can tell you! if you mine heavy with same setup (ped drop depth) you will get burned badly after a few days because you deplete the system those claim sizes / depth plus the system redistributes it to claim sizes and depth outside what you typically been mining with. so it would go to someone else, unless your prepared to roll with a lot different finders/amps.

What brings you to near perfect TT returns is hofs and Ubers but it's like the holy grail entropia (lootius), personally I think every time you drop you roll a large number against another large number if they match you enter jackpot for whatever is in system based on your drop(different sized numbers for Ubers globals and.hofs). We like to to think entropia is this complex system but in reality its really not, its just essentially matching those numbers over a long enough run to get that so called return 90% 97% ?????? reason why that final number varies is because its based on other peoples returns for given timeframe from what's available in the system.

 

[InKwL]

Is happened to me not once but a lot of time.
Just write down every amp result with the materials on it.
Usually using a normal 1 ped drop finder and dclass amp will result in a 13-17 claims per amp.
When you have high MU claims the TT return will be less that normal. When MU is very low the TT return will be near 95%
Now, a dclass have 40 drops. If you start mining and in first 25 drops you hit 15 claims, the rest of the amp will be only NRF. Dosent matter what and where you go. A few time was that HR was good and continue to find claims but on second amp was a very bad return that compensate the first one and bring the TT return to a normal 90-95% . If MA dosent track INPUT-OUTPUT ot each, there will be a lot of players who will rock the shit of the lootpool.

 

[InKwL]

We all know that some ores and enmatters come on "surface" just on waves time in some well know spots. If I just go to drop only on waves on first days maybe I will be able to hit only the good stuff. After a time the "Entropia system 32 dll" will put me aside and show me a lesson of a very bad tt return . Gooing to do this unamped will take a long time to reach that point. Amped will take a matter of days until the "you have a bad day" is hitting me hard. I did try all the shits to improve this. After a time I have a very bad result in mining. From day 1 until day 10 I lost lets say 10k . Day 11 up to day 14 I hit good stuff worth 7k. After selling on best price I did have back my lost 10k. Not more not less.

Is MA keep track of your loss and pay you back with MU that generate your loss?
I was never able to hit back that TT loss with same amount of TT. Just think on this. Losing 20k TT and have back 18k TT of great minerals with 150% MU. Small amount of few hundreds of peds is not a data to can make a true test.

I still belive that over a huge amount of time everyone have a limit of how much "X" materials can pull out.
Why I say this? On planet X, server Y on start I found only lysterium. After a time of grinding I did see pyrite and no more lysterium. Same mining gear. This was in time when mayhem was working hard. Why when I start mining I didnt find any trace of pyrite and after a time I hit that amount of pyrite to bring me on overall afters 100k on " x% amount of pyrite"?

 

[The Mind]

All that sounds like a normal destribution and mean reversion. Escept from a players perspective it becomes "subjective".

 

[M Rufen Power]

To inform you. End of January 2024 until today - 21 april 2024 .....141k droped...118k recived. ( planetside and not indoor ) YEAH I know. Is to little because I need to work and also since I did see this shit return I let it slow because I am not here to sale my house to be able to play one month on entropia .

I repet....If I start on position "A" and run to "B" and so on.....if I log out when I am on position "X" and log back why the fuck I am still on position ''A"? Why my avatar is not where I let him?

So 141k dropped meaning cycled, has to be. So can you confirm if you dropped 21692 drops all with D-class amp? I do doubt it.
If you're keeping track of your last location ingame and you're seeing your avatar has moved back, but why is that an issue here?
Do you think the latency is creating pockets where your peds are just going into a VOID in the system? Possible yes, but unlikely.
Perhaps the server didn't save your last known coordinates due to server lag, however, that doesn't mean the system isn't registering your decay especially if you are seeing, the respond vector on your finder, otherwise you'd have claims that would stack as it registers on server.

 

[M Rufen Power]

If they are not tracked then you can technically achieve near perfect hit rates and greater than perfect returns by mastering the mining system by solving for where MindArk places mining nodes, the algorithm that distributes them in 3D space and what are their respawn times. It would be predictable given enough data.

This ^

 

[InKwL]

So 141k dropped meaning cycled, has to be. So can you confirm if you dropped 21692 drops all with D-class amp? I do doubt it.
If you're keeping track of your last location ingame and you're seeing your avatar has moved back, but why is that an issue here?
Do you think the latency is creating pockets where your peds are just going into a VOID in the system? Possible yes, but unlikely.
Perhaps the server didn't save your last known coordinates due to server lag, however, that doesn't mean the system isn't registering your decay especially if you are seeing, the respond vector on your finder.

Let's start again.
I love this btw.

Does MA have say something about droping in same place will come back to your loot? Are you willing to prove that you will stay in same place and drop 1000 times and on the end you will have 90-95% back ? I dont belive this.
If I remember good they say once dont drop in same location more that one.
If droping in same position again and again was not a problem, you will see people stand in same place and drop like morrons until they hit and dooing again and again.
To be this shit real.....damn. I know a spot where on wave I hit all the time redulite. Imagine that "system 32 dll entropia" have in plan to give me in next 10 claims 2 big 10k hoffs. 10k redulite found by MF Fritz....

And come on bro...please.
Until when MA say ok we need to pay back to Fritz X amount of ped back because he is a morron and drop again and again in same place, I will take the others side and go after no big hoffs hits but decent return with MU in and not a 200k lyst ath

If this was easy....just stand in one single place and start droping until you have 100k loss and hope that ath of 90k will be on pyrite,belkar or anything else was true . All miners will do this.

Bomb in same place maybe will return back but will be like gooing to hunt with grindhouse and hope that when the big return will come you will hit something else that shrapnel

 

[slick27]

So 141k dropped meaning cycled, has to be. So can you confirm if you dropped 21692 drops all with D-class amp? I do doubt it.
If you're keeping track of your last location ingame and you're seeing your avatar has moved back, but why is that an issue here?
Do you think the latency is creating pockets where your peds are just going into a VOID in the system? Possible yes, but unlikely.
Perhaps the server didn't save your last known coordinates due to server lag, however, that doesn't mean the system isn't registering your decay especially if you are seeing, the respond vector on your finder, otherwise you'd have claims that would stack as it registers on server.

Considering ma has clearly stated theirs no personal loot pool he could be on to something but!!! and I say but because you are creating an event every time you drop their still is a chance mathematically that you could hit a hof or Uber. That's if their is a claim size their ofc. While it defo won't = you out because way ma issues Ubers and hofs normally in common sizes not random which says to me they done that in such a way to more equally even out returns instead of select few scoring massive jackpots. I find it hard to explain but it's how I see it.

Question I ask is why would you carry on in such a situation losing ped and using lvl 5 amps and d class which are bloody worse things to use anyways because everyone else is using them at certain depths.

 

[TeesMaarKhan]

I bet the staff at MA sits there thinking on a daily basis, shall we laugh or be concerned at this lots madness?

Veins
3d, 2d
flat plane
cyclindrical
sphericle
claims in the ground
x co ords y co ords

As humans we really do have amazing theories and ways to cover & comfort our stupidities dont we.

 

[InKwL]

Considering ma has clearly stated theirs no personal loot pool he could be on to something but!!! and I say but because you are creating an event every time you drop their still is a chance mathematically that you could hit a hof or Uber. That's if their is a claim size their ofc. While it defo won't = you out because way ma issues Ubers and hofs normally in common sizes not random which says to me they done that in such a way to more equally even out returns instead of select few scoring massive jackpots. I find it hard to explain but it's how I see it.

Question I ask is why would you carry on in such a situation losing ped and using lvl 5 amps and d class which are bloody worse things to use anyways because everyone else is using them at certain depths.

Since I start to watch result of returns something jump in my eyes.
If terra amp 6 is good for a specific mineral will not be so good for the rest.
Example. Best hits on redulite was with dclass... Level 5 amp was not bad but also not the best. Terra amp 6 is also one that you will find but very rare.
Best MU is find inside of waves. Waves are very short so you need to move fast and cove the spot fast until wave is not done. If you use a more powerfull amp there is a little chance to find that specific type of claim. Unamped is not a problem. Just the period to turn the ped will take forever. If you found the best setup for each material you are searching I belive on the end well be good. Is like on hunting, if you are try very hard to kill a mob with 100 shots will not be the same like kill with 10 shots.
Since 2016-2017 there are no more ath with high MU. If sistem is allowing me to take out per wave lets say 20% of "X" material from a total of 1000 ped wave cap material, why to go way under that %? I just try to find the best setup for each material on each server I go

 

[InKwL]

I bet the staff at MA sits there thinking on a daily basis, shall we laugh or be concerned at this lots madness?

Veins
3d, 2d
flat plane
cyclindrical
sphericle
claims in the ground
x co ords y co ords

As humans we really do have amazing theories and ways to cover & comfort our stupidities dont we.

Until MA dont reveal how claims are generated and found, all we can dream and think of everything.
Why not? If I stop dreaming about a big major hit or a specific material found , I will just stop gooing mining.
Why to go to drop something if my "veins, 3d, airplanes, space aliens, etc" dont give me the hope that maybe today is my day? People want to improve the result. Nothing more. Why to go after a high MU mineral when lyst is found everywhere.

P.S. I am so bored on work....and this topic keep me "alive" today