be carefull when investing - values can go down

[kira-red]

To quote Kira-red if I may

people, one does not invest in EU. investments have a guaranteed return - like a secured bond. what you are doing is speculating. these are two different things.

All I will say to that is ENDOWMENT MORTGAGES...... they were investments when people bought into them.......

pffft...

an endowment mortgage is most certainly not an investment. the endowment rider is normally rooted in stock market speculation. I would go so far as to say that it might be consider a form of gambling.

in my mind, it's certainly a form of a scam. people tend to over-buy because they think the rider is going to "cover" the mortgage. when a shortfall occurs because the market didn't perform as expected, they're left to come up with the cash. I certainly wouldn't want to be running my finances this way.

 

[Beki]

thx Kira you made my point with far greater clarity and emphasis than I had.

When you look at the history of Endowments and the Financial Experts that sell them as an investment nowhere in their paperwork does the word GAMBLING appear

 

[kira-red]

When you look at the history of Endowments and the Financial Experts that sell them as an investment nowhere in their paperwork does the word GAMBLING appear

yeah, I'm certain of that.

but, I doubt the word investment appears anywhere in their written copy as well. I'm sure that the people trying to sell these things litter their pitch with this word, though. those selling will use the defence their verbal use of the word is obviously just a marketing vehicle as it is never mentioned as such in the contractual copy.

a very fine line to be walking upon and almost criminal.

it's like that reporter in the video suggesting that MA's HQ is a bank. no, it is not a bank - nor will it ever be. it may be something of a financial institution through issuing the maestro card (cash mastercard) but that's a different matter.

I have real trouble with MA's marketing use of terms like "invest" and "deposit" that have specific financial meanings.

 

[Sumner]

I've noticed this unreliabilty quite a bit. From simple things, like upping decay on armors, to the more complicated examples that Spod mentions, it is impossible to place an accurate value on any item in this game.

MA really needs to disclose its plans with regards to any changes that may affect the value of our investments. (not that I care so much, as I no longer play. just some advice.)

I really hope they dont piss me off by taking an unreasonably long time with my withdrawal. I can easily show you why they would be liable in America for selling unregistered securities.

 

[LokiDarkStar]

I agree with you

+rep

Still another example of MA screwing over the players. You got to wonder what world they live in, not the same one I do.

I know they now say its not a game, and now they are telling the truth. Its gambling with odd much worst then the back room of a pool hall in New York.

DS

 

[Jager von Amber]

@ kira

investments do not have guaranteed returns; there is always some risk and therefore speculation. The difference between investing and pure speculation is the amount of risk and the predictability of the returns.

 

[Kpeters]

Just like in real life m8.

 

[kira-red]

investments do not have guaranteed returns; there is always some risk and therefore speculation.

no, not where I live. I can go to a chartered bank and purchace what's known as a GIC (guaranteed income certificate). there is zero risk. it pays the interest that it is contractually obligated to and it is guaranteed to do so. the only way for it not to is for the bank to go bankrupt and since it's underwritten by the government the whole country would have to be going bankrupt as well. there are other such similar vehicles available, here.

zero risk - zero speculation.

The difference between investing and pure speculation is the amount of risk and the predictability of the returns.

that's right. investing has no risk and speculation does. investing has predicibility and speculation does not.

incidentally, there is no such thing as "investing" in the stock market. that's just a lie that brokers tell you to pry your money from you. some things, like real estate, when selected properly, have such a low risk that they are considered an "investment". technically, "virtual investment" would be more accurate - using virtual to mean "almost exactly like". now, compare a virtual investment in real estate with "investing" in EU...

 

[Sumner]

@ kira

investments do not have guaranteed returns; there is always some risk and therefore speculation. The difference between investing and pure speculation is the amount of risk and the predictability of the returns.

yeah man. but in america, if you are going to sell investment contracts, you need to disclose the material aspects of the investment, and the relevant risks therof.

will keep the forum updated on my withdrwal request. I have 4 days between my last exam and the first day of bar exam preparation. I wouldnt want to make a nasty post...

 

[KapokWu]

... if you are going to sell investment contracts, you need to disclose the material aspects of the investment, and the relevant risks therof.

That is little bit difficult in this economy, which is geared to entertain
players. However it is "economy", it is also the way to make hours
passing and surrender to our attention demanding addictions.
So there must be surprises built in.

Also, many changes you learn to predict, for example if one
item is out of balance, it may get nerfed, and if some items
are missing, they may get added, and so on. And droprates
of all items fluctuate annually, so at least you can expect
a past pattern to re-emerge.

There will be a heavy over-supply of cheap apartments for
example. Just like there is an endless supply of cheap
tt equippement. And so on.

Don't worry, you will get your money, unless you have seriously
broken EULA, or supplied inadequate banking info.

 

[Count Dracula]

totally aggre with you man, but it still wouldnt hertf to own a peice of land... I hope

 

[Jager von Amber]

no, not where I live. I can go to a chartered bank and purchace what's known as a GIC (guaranteed income certificate). there is zero risk. it pays the interest that it is contractually obligated to and it is guaranteed to do so. the only way for it not to is for the bank to go bankrupt and since it's underwritten by the government the whole country would have to be going bankrupt as well. there are other such similar vehicles available, here.

zero risk - zero speculation

No, very limited risk; but there does still exist risk. Countries have gone bankrupt.

that's right. investing has no risk and speculation does. investing has predicibility and speculation does not.

incidentally, there is no such thing as "investing" in the stock market. that's just a lie that brokers tell you to pry your money from you. some things, like real estate, when selected properly, have such a low risk that they are considered an "investment". technically, "virtual investment" would be more accurate - using virtual to mean "almost exactly like". now, compare a virtual investment in real estate with "investing" in EU...

Obviously you have something against the stock market or brokers. Real estate is historically much more volatile (the standard deviation of this volatility being the definition of the amount of risk) than stocks.

 

[Mirand]

So this all fits in the larger picture, only one can make money here.
That is the person who knows whats happening when its happening.
And whom do we guess that will be ?
no one has uber knowledge in any real economy, but here MA has because its all theirs. The participants can only hope that after the rather pretentious news of 160 Million $ and now the ability to let people withdraw, the participants will get a fair share of the cake.
Making profit is any companys goal and MA has the servers and all to pay for but still, it has to be kept fair. The possibilities for abusing this kind of system when you're at the source are kinda limetless.
Since MA has defacto become a bank institution they must have made most of the 160 Mil themself, if not al.
Virtual items with real world value will always be shady. I personaly dont like the fact the whole concept is very, and i mean VERY well covered by lots of words in the eula and even on the startupscreen stating it is NOT a game.
People seem to forget that all the time. Maybe a serious look into the workings of this system by an independent official is overdue.

Kind greetings

 

[KapokWu]

So this all fits in the larger picture, only one can make money here.

Many people make money here: those who got good items in beta,
those who have invested a lot to rigth stuff (early estate purchases
and sales after 1.5 yrs, land areas, TI and perhaps CND), some with
exceptional skills in manufactoring and tailoring. They do not need
actual inside knowledge to succeed.

Maybe a serious look into the workings of this system by an independent official is overdue.

Such info should be for potential new shareholders. To me, as a player,
it is enough if they can convince the investors. (Real Life investors).
A lot of the future plans is strategic, and obviously MA has made
quick decisions about the game. Reasons for this were many. One was
the bankrupty of the previous company, which influenced the business strategy a lot. Another one was the delays in the emergence of the competing concepts. Another is that this kind of game is based on
user behaviour, and introducing new elements is sometimes quite a gamble.

One serious factor behind their quick decisions is the limitations
of the existing codebase. A minor upgrade sometimes requires
a major overhaul.

MA personnel is required to play this game. While they do so,
they cannot profit much. It is quite easy to set an in-house
policy to make sure no profits are made by the inner circle.
I happen to trust these Swedes, I am more afraid of the offspring,
which kind of real-money games will emerge in the future?

 

[Mirand]

"IF" that is the way it is, then it is very clear alot of people are being fooled.
Just the ones that bring in big cash (shareholders) will make a profit.
Indicating nothing more then the next moneymachine.
The only thing MA has to worry about is how long they can last before everybody knows they have been fooled.
The danger of this software lies just in that, doing all possible to make people think they are inside a game that wouldnt have to cost them anything, when in fact, we can clearly see the system is setup to make the easy manipulated masses give money and more money just to get a little bit of fun out of it. (yes MA will make anoying rules so you will be "forced" to put in real cash, just as any gamemaker manipulates code in order to avoid customers complaining their games playtime is too short)
Yes people with the big bucks are welcome to invest, its an failsafe investment for them.
It reminds me off MONEYTRON.
everyone likes to think he/she is the smartest and thats what this system exploits. dummy's we are

Greetings

 

[spod]

i thought i might be an idea to resurect this thread,

esp with the new vu 8.5 having increased the number of land areas by 11 ( about 40%ish increase ).

i wonder how this will effect teh prices, as it means that the same number of players will now be spread out over more land areas.

more land = lower prices ?
more land = few people per land = lower revenues for land owners