ESI - a possible change to improve hunting and attract new players.

[dentx]

Hello,

TLDR: Massive silent ubers with ESI are unreliable and not as "fun" as 100`s of decent-good regular loots. "No more ESI in loot, instead craft it, and let the ingredients be found in loot". I do not have any accurate data as a proof other than my own emotions from when i began playing PE.
(Stupid thing to remind, but in case you disagree so badly that you really want to write a reply read the whole thing and write why you disagree instead of start flaming)

On to the topic

There have been several threads asking for MA to increase markup on hunting, but, unless they introduce a completely new and genius item that everyone would need, "increasing markup" is close to impossible. What I propose, is splitting the big and massive silent ubers/ATH into lots of small silent globals or cool little cookie-loots.

Asking markup from crafters, so that they start making new items that mostly use materials acquired from hunting requires that the the new items have a very high demand. New L weapons have quite low demand because ppl are used to the old ones(and new ones are not much more economic if at all), because there are loads of possibly too good L lootable weapons and because IMO there are already too many UL SIB weapons and every guy/girl with an UL SIB is not buying neither looted nor crafted weapons removing them from the demand in general.
The days of crafters spending millions of PED to gain skills and hoping for blueprints just to tt the results are over. Even if there are few of those crafters left the prices of all minerals and animal oils(or i guess just minerals since oils have always been 101-105%) are dropping, even miners have a hard time selling resources at more than 110-115% (as opposed to some areas having 150-200% average markup in the days when i started mining)

However, I believe that hunters already have quite high markup, but sadly it is given out in large chunks(high tt ESI and UL SIB weapons). UL SIB weapons and my full dislike for them is a different matter but my proposal today is - make ESI craftable.

Why would hunters give away the best and most reliable markup item in the lootpool to crafters? Because making them craftable doesn't mean you are giving them away, not if 100% of the materials needed to make them come from hunting, and because its far from reliable. Some guys are getting several of them every year and at high tt while some others never see any of them. ESI after the change where they were given a tt value(and the old ones were replaced with 12 ped ESI) are too damn rare to be a reliable hunting markup.

But its a chance at silent uber...
Yes, and its a chance that you will never see one in your entire life.I am sure a lot of new ppl quit because everything seems to be close to tt value and they quickly find out that unles you spend 50k$ on gear you will never profit on tt (hell... even that might just be a myth created by imk2 holders to drive up the price). I personally never have felt the need for a "silent uber" in general. Maybe if i had gotten one i would protect them, but i seriously doubt that a 2k PED silent uber feels better than 20x 100PED silent globals(and I do know how regular silent globals feel, from back before the ESI change)

Assuming that the idea might have a small bit of point hidden somewhere... How would it work? Should MA somehow get old ESI back?
NO. the new ESI make a lot of sense and they make chiping out or in a lot easier than before.To chip out a lot of skills you needed 300x ESI and to chip out small amount of skills you still used up a full ESI(12ped esi to get 1 ped of skills).
Like i said the ESI should be crafted and hunters should instead get 5-7 diferent ESI parts spread across diferent kinds of mobs.
Some of the smaller parts like 0.25-0.5 PED TT worth items are found on weaker mobs
0.5-1 PED parts on the average 1-2 PED mobs
Some of the bigger parts could be a rare-ish find on all of them but quite common on the big 10-20+ped/kill mobs. So that it seems more real make live mobs drop biologic pieces like neural strings and intact brain cells while robots drop mechanic pieces
Maybe you could even have drop% different on other planets but that would remove a lot of hunting markup due to planetary traders taking a share of it and not just crafters.

An important note: it must not be the BP`s that are limited, they need to be easy obtainable. Otherwise MA can and most likely will choose the easier version to control the markup and the crafters get all the profits while hunters end up with nothing.

The result would leave us with quite a few new high markup items and with a bit of balancing all of them would be 400-1000% markup. This way ESI is not about a massive find once a year(with you feeling horrible from bad runs all year and happy for 1 day) and instead about reliable markup, about hunting diferent mobs based on current demand for that particular ESI part and lots of small cool cookie-loots .
Maybe in the ultimate long run hunters would get less as crafters would take a share of the profits, but there would no longer be months without anything decent to sell or in some unlucky cases even years.

I am sure that my proposal still needs tons of polishing, and since I am not really a crafter there are probably things I have not thought about, but I hope it got you thinking about possible options how to make EU a better game to play. Add something more if you think of something and I will try to edit this post.

edit: I just noticed that there is a wishlist section. If possible, than this probably should be moved there. Sorry, for wrong forum.

Thank you!

 

[Wollongong]

This is one long-ass post, and I read it all, but due to the late time, I don't think I got all the details, but in essence you are saying "No more ESI in loot, instead craft it, and let the ingredients be found in loot".

Seems to make sense.

 

[SpeedMetalVai]

Interesting idea. I don't craft or hunt a whole lot, but I'm curious to see what others opinions are. Subbed.

 

[Dan59]

For those who chip out (esi buyers) nothing will change.
Instead to pay MU to hunter they will pay it to crafter.
MA will still controll aviable amount by droping BP's (L) only.
All probelms will remain, just form will change.
There is astronomical fee 10% of skills lost upon chipping out seeling product (skills).
There is is silly high packaging (ESI) expense for seling product (skills) from 750% to 1000%+.
If produict (skills ) is worth just a small fractiion of final price counting chipout looses and ESI cost then something is wery wrong.
In the end we cant talk about RCE here but about wery closed, dictated and controlled economy where free market is unknown term.

 

[danimal01]

To OP-You're on crack. Where did you smoke it and where can I get some?

ESI's don't need to be crafted they are fine in the hunting loot pool as they are now. Don't snub the hunters further, we already have TONS of garbage TT loots we do not need our little markup blown up because you had an "awesome" idea.

~Danimal

 

[mike jones]

To OP-You're on crack. Where did you smoke it and where can I get some?

ESI's don't need to be crafted they are fine in the hunting loot pool as they are now. Don't snub the hunters further, we already have TONS of garbage TT loots we do not need our little markup blown up because you had an "awesome" idea.

~Danimal

Snub the hunters further you my friend are smoking something garbage in the loot what ever there is tons of hunters who make there rl income hunting your so called garbage tt loots and do pretty damn well.

 

[dentx]

For those who chip out (esi buyers) nothing will change.
Instead to pay MU to hunter they will pay it to crafter.
MA will still controll aviable amount by droping BP's (L) only.
All probelms will remain, just form will change.
There is astronomical fee 10% of skills lost upon chipping out seeling product (skills).
There is is silly high packaging (ESI) expense for seling product (skills) from 750% to 1000%+.
If produict (skills ) is worth just a small fractiion of final price counting chipout looses and ESI cost then something is wery wrong.
In the end we cant talk about RCE here but about wery closed, dictated and controlled economy where free market is unknown term.

I did not intend this to answer a problem with chiping in/out.

The markup for the ESI will be given to crafters but they can NOT make ESI without splitting up the money they will get and buying the parts from the hunters.
None of the components will be tt value and it must not be the BP`s that are limited because then indeed the crafters get all the profits and hunters end up with nothing (i will add this in the original post to fix the confusion)


The 10% fee in skills, the way i see it, is sort of a "gold sink" when it comes to skills otherwise they keep on growing, growing and growing and they would be even more worthless than they are now.("WTS evade skills at 700% near TP, anyone?") But again... that is not the reason i was making this topic. I want to improve hunting.

The last 3 points have always been in EU as long as i remember. Not that they cant be improved, but i don't know how. I did notice one thread giving an option of several "grades" of ESI - a poor quality ESI with 90% skills lost but nearly at TT value(for the cheap skills) or something like that. It could be added but it would take a lot of thinking to make it work

To OP-You're on crack. Where did you smoke it and where can I get some?

ESI's don't need to be crafted they are fine in the hunting loot pool as they are now. Don't snub the hunters further, we already have TONS of garbage TT loots we do not need our little markup blown up because you had an "awesome" idea.

~Danimal

I was sort of on crack when i came up with it (working out a bit). But simply trying to think of improvements to a game that i used to love and would want to love again works too.

ESI are not fine. they used to be awesome loot you got every now and then, that fixed 1 bad run/day or improved a good one. Now they are a lot less common but when you get it you "sort of" get a jackpot and there are plenty of jackpots in this game as it is. If this idea is put in the way I would want, then hunters will more or less get the same amount of markup in the long run but in smaller doses.
Crafters will act as traders that do a bit of work and probably profit a bit for doing it.

 

[Mariko Ninja]

The only problem I see, is that when BP's are needed to craft an ESI.
They get horded and prices pushed up through the roof, seen that happen more than enough on auctions.

Nice idea, but isn't going to work so well.

 

[Robin]

This will never happen...Just Think of all the hunters who would quit because of it...alot

 

[Wollongong]

This will never happen...Just Think of all the hunters who would quit because of it...alot

Why would people quit? Instead of getting 1x 10 PED *150% you get 10x1 PED x 150%

 

[Legion]

The only problem I see, is that when BP's are needed to craft an ESI.
They get horded and prices pushed up through the roof, seen that happen more than enough on auctions.

Nice idea, but isn't going to work so well.

Read what he wrote again, the bp should be quite easily attainable.

 

[Sub-Zero]

Imo in my opinion a BP should be added to the technician that allows you to create L ESI's. To create ESI you will need basic components (tt-food) but you'll also need 1 rare component (new item) that can be looted by say every lvl 15 and above mob - can also be gained from mining perhaps?
By still needing a rare component there won't be oversupply of ESI's but the price will go down some, so it will be cheaper to chip in and to chip out. Skills will go down in value some but you'll get more skills for the buck, so you'll become more efficient easier.

This will be a win-win for all since for players they'll get higher markup on normally TT food stuff. Increasing the avg returns, crafters will be able to "control" the market - as long as MA still drops the rare component.
MA will earn more because they won't actually be paying out anything, they'll be paying out the same as now plus the rare component (minus the ESI).

So they can actually increase the avg % loot if they wanted to. They'll also earn more since to create a higher TT value (L) item you need animal oil residue - that money will go straight into their pockets in turn this might actually increase the MU on animal oil residue too . Hence win-win!

 

[Coz1969]

So, as a hunter, let me see if I have this correct...

NOW: I loot and ESI every now and then... not often at all. That markup can sometimes make up for a crap run but, again, not often at all. So, for my hunting loot, ESI is a rare item, and the markup is based on what players will pay to be able to use an ESI (as OP stated, thi fluctuates) and all the markup for the ESI comes directly to me.

PROPOSED: I loot some rare component needed to craft an ESI.... not often at all. So, if I loot that rare component, the markup may or may not make up for a crap run. The market value for this rare item is based on what crafters are willing to pay, which is, in turn, based on what players are willing to pay in markup for an ESI. So, part of the markup for the end product (ESI) goes to the crafter, and part comes to me.

So, ummm... remind me again, as a hunter, why the hell I would want to have ESIs gone, as rare as they are for me, from my loot?

 

[dentx]

Imo in my opinion a BP should be added to the technician that allows you to create L ESI's. To create ESI you will need basic components (tt-food) but you'll also need 1 rare component (new item) that can be looted by say every lvl 15 and above mob - can also be gained from mining perhaps?
By still needing a rare component there won't be oversupply of ESI's but the price will go down some, so it will be cheaper to chip in and to chip out. Skills will go down in value some but you'll get more skills for the buck, so you'll become more efficient easier.

This will be a win-win for all since for players they'll get higher markup on normally TT food stuff. Increasing the avg returns, crafters will be able to "control" the market - as long as MA still drops the rare component.
MA will earn more because they won't actually be paying out anything, they'll be paying out the same as now plus the rare component (minus the ESI).

So they can actually increase the avg % loot if they wanted to. They'll also earn more since to create a higher TT value (L) item you need animal oil residue - that money will go straight into their pockets in turn this might actually increase the MU on animal oil residue too . Hence win-win!

I hope i understood everything correctly.
Making a BP for ESI available from the technician is a good option(if resellers truly are so aggressive in price manipulation to drive a very common BP from tt+10..20 into 1000`s)

Using current TT food(I am guessing you meant basic filters and such items that have little or no use at all) would give them some markup but it would very directly steal profit from hunters and is very far from win-win for them. I am guessing you meant that if you give crafters more money they would rise the price on animal oils, but unless there is a very strong reason to do it... they can just as well keep it to themselves .
You could maybe try using the animal oils as the TT components but there is a massive supply of them(I would guess tons of animal oils are being thrown in TT basket every day and I'm not sure of the effect it would have... maybe it would be just a good). The result of TT food + 1 rare component would kind of bring back the silent globals though(said component could easy be 50-100PED) and it is one option how to make this happen.
Miners have never had anyhing to do with ESI other than chipping out, they have enough regular and high markup as it is. I am a miner, I know it very well.

I dont think the price of ESI will change either way because MA seems to like the current price and since they control all drop rates they would simply adjust the drop rate so that ESI price remains the same both with 1 component + tt food or with many components.

I am sorry if i misunderstood something that you offered.

So, as a hunter, let me see if I have this correct...

NOW: I loot and ESI every now and then... not often at all. That markup can sometimes make up for a crap run but, again, not often at all. So, for my hunting loot, ESI is a rare item, and the markup is based on what players will pay to be able to use an ESI (as OP stated, thi fluctuates) and all the markup for the ESI comes directly to me.

PROPOSED: I loot some rare component needed to craft an ESI.... not often at all. So, if I loot that rare component, the markup may or may not make up for a crap run. The market value for this rare item is based on what crafters are willing to pay, which is, in turn, based on what players are willing to pay in markup for an ESI. So, part of the markup for the end product (ESI) goes to the crafter, and part comes to me.

So, ummm... remind me again, as a hunter, why the hell I would want to have ESIs gone, as rare as they are for me, from my loot?

Currently the ESI you loot can be anywhere from 9ish(i have not seen lower) to 1250 ped and assuming 700% markup you just looted from 63 ped to 8750(probably less due to diferent markups at higher tt and the auction fee.) I believe that the old system where all of them were somewhere around 70-80 ped and they were not nearly as rare was better from hunting point of view. It still was random, but at least you got to see one every now and then. They ware a lot more common and i would almost call them somewhat reliable markup.

While I have not had a 8k ped silent uber I very much doubt it feels 100 times better than geting a small silent global. I probably wouldnt even know what to do with a 8k loot and waste it in 2 days on unnecessary stuff that i would later sell for 5k.

The components will actually drop quite often but instead of massive silent ubers( I am sure big part of them are so silent and there is not even a post in these forums.) these components will be sold for anywhere from 50 pec for the very small ones to maybe 40-50 ped for the biggest of them(all of them at roughly 400-1000%).

If done right crafters should not be taking very much and a beginner on his first hunt has a good chance of getting something that actually has a value and then this game feels less of a casino where you spend TT to get TT. I`m sure giving all beginners hof on first hunt works even better, but it is quite expensive.

Hope it helped.

 

[Legion]

First, i just checked what my skills are worth, ~3500ped if i where to sell those the buyer would have to spend another ~17k ped for the ESI alone. That is just stupid imo.

A few positive things with making esi a bit easier to aquire from crafters would be something like this.

Cheaper ESI -> more people would likely trade skills and purchase them -> moneysink for MA (Gold sink in game dev terms) = good for MA as more people would drain funds out of the system. Instead of one person draining his funds to skill more would do it but in less quantity. And having more people drain their money is a good thing for MA.

 

[Ludvig|MindArk]

Cheaper ESI -> more people would likely trade skills and purchase them -> moneysink for MA (Gold sink in game dev terms) = good for MA as more people would drain funds out of the system. Instead of one person draining his funds to skill more would do it but in less quantity. And having more people drain their money is a good thing for MA.

Seeing it from the other angle, cheaper ESI would also make it easier for people to chip out, meaning more people might sell skills and withdraw more PED.

 

[Coz1969]

...components will be sold for anywhere from 50 pec for the very small ones to maybe 40-50 ped for the biggest of them(all of them at roughly 400-1000%).

That's a big huge margin you got going there. But, from my understanding, you are saying we need to loot MORE crap, and, if the crap is a common as you indicate, then the market value is not going to be very high. Also, what do you propose the full TT of these crafted ESI's would be?

If done right crafters should not be taking very much

*wipes tears from eyes* Unless a crafter is crafting simply for skill gain (basic filters come to mind) they will always try to maximize their profit. Of course, there might be those crafters who craft simply for the fun of... wait, I cant even finish that sentence. The only "fun" thing about crafting is the chance to see a golden swirl.

Hope it helped.

Not so much. In fact, not really at all. You have yet to propose anything in this idea that might make me, as a hunter, want to change over to crafted ESI's. But hey, feel free to keep trying.

 

[Legion]

Seeing it from the other angle, cheaper ESI would also make it easier for people to chip out, meaning more people might sell skills and withdraw more PED.

Yep, but more people would probably also spend money/deposit to buy skills ie it would probably even out. And it's the ped drain that is the important thing, if you get more to drain their ped but in smaller amounts your would most likely generate more deposits.

 

[Tepes]

Seeing it from the other angle, cheaper ESI would also make it easier for people to chip out, meaning more people might sell skills and withdraw more PED.

If is so easy to depo it should be also easier to chip out. I do not see anything wrong with people selling their skills, is MA job to do things differently to keep people interested. Just making harder to chip out does not inspire too much confidence.

At this very moment, AH has only 8 ESI listed, most of them big TT value.

 

[morey]

ESI being looted is a good idea. It helps the game's most sought after activity, Hunting, by offering chance to earn great MU for the majority of EU players.

Crafting is nice, but good BP tends to be hogged and few benefit. So ESI from variety of players Is better than ESI from afew players.

I think ESI is good as is

 

[lyosha]

uh... no thanks, ESI is good as it is, crafters have plenty of MU to lean on... us hunters, not so much.

 

[Vedder]

The basic problem is, that we are simply way too many hunters to keep up any decent MU.

If some non-rare hunting loot has MU, it will instantly be over-hunted, until the MU is negligible. We're ALL looking for something to hunt, with just a little MU, to minimize costs.


They should work on making other professions more fun. Or adding new fun professions. If more people were spending peds on other professions, the MU could be more balanced.

 

[Venture Bros]

I fully endorse this idea. The markup on items required to make the ESI would increase and it would equal out. Even use sweat as part of crafting it and EVERYONE wins.

It would be best to alert everyone a month or several months in advance, and stop ESI from dropping, so that they do not lose value unfairly.

 

[InDaHouse]

I dont see where the problem with ESI is that we have a need to fix something???

Why fix what IMO aint broke, when MA should be working to fix what is already broke?

ESI has MU that helps keep skill price's up, if you lower the ESI price you lower the skill price, when ESI price goes back up skill price does not. We also have the problem that with a lack of players coming into game and wanting to stay no-one has confidence to buy skills and with all the complaints about broke things and MA nerfing things more people are leaving.

Supply and demand there is more people selling skills than there is buying skills so you all start to undercut price's so you get your peds fast.

Bring back taming......
Fix the mute mic in windows setting.....
STOP adding millions of new items.....
and my biggest FIX - PLEASE ADVERTISE!!!!!