I'm Amazed!!

[Deke]

Yes, i am amazed at the amount of loot pool theories on this forum. It reminds me of people trying to figure out ways to "BEAT" the casino. Granted, a select few have figured out ways to increase the odds of success against the house. Some of those have gotten rich using the methods they've developed. What do those select few all have in common? They have all gotten "caught" eventually and have been banned from the casino's they've tried to "Rob". Thats what the casinos call it even though it's technically legal. Another thing they have in common...they kept the idea to themselves or only shared it with people they could trust. Why? Because if too many people were doing it, the casino would figure out a way to stop them.
What the hell is my point? If someone actually figured out a way to profit 100% of the time...they wouldn't share that information and MA would figure out how to stop them.
MA has clearly stated that their goal is for this game to cost the average player 1.00 per hour (i forget the exact number but, this is close enough). Do some of us pay more than that to play? you better believe it Do some people fund all of their play without ever depositing a dime? you better believe it. Has a very small percentage of the EU population figured out how to quit there day job and spend all there time making money in EU? Yep, and what did they all have in common? They had money to begin with and looked at EU as an investment more than they looked at it as a game. Do you think Ansche (spelling?) came here looking for a great new MMO to play? I doubt it. He saw it as a great investment. Did Neverdie? Maybe. Don't know him personally but, considering how much time and personal attention he gives CND and the events he runs I would have to say he loved it from the start.
As for the Ubers you see globaling all the time (Auktuma being my fave as he crafted my Ghost armor) these people have spent a lot of time and more money than 99% of Entropia residents could possibly afford. Just like in the rest of this world (the real one) they are in the top 1%. They're like CEO's of major corporations. They climbed the skilling ladder in the smartest way possible to become the best at what they do. Are they going to tell you there secret? Good luck getting most of them to speak with you period...they are busy improving their virtual selves and i don't blame them one bit. I do envy them (don't we all?) I also envy Bill Gates but, do i think he had an unfair advantage over me? Nope. He just had a good idea (well, Steve Jobs had a good idea, lol) he acted on it.
This is a virtual world. It has to operate similarly to the real world to be profitable. MindArk are capitalists, not socialists. If ANYONE figured out how to take profits away from MA, MA would either change the rules or ban the player. You want to know the one and only secret to profiting in Entropia Universe? Sell things at a markup. Thats it. There is no magic formula. There is no secret. The markup is paid by Entropians, not MA. Selling something with a TT value of 100 ped for 1000 ped does not concern nor effect MA in the slightest. If it did, we wouldn't have access to auction houses or player trades So that animal eye oil you have only has a markup of 102%? Sell it for 102% and you are 2% ahead of the 1.00 per hour MA is going to charge you to play this game. Do they care? No. Does this affect MA? Yes. They run ads all the time telling you that your a great trader. They do this because it makes good business sense. For every Entropian that figures out how to profit ingame, there are 1000 of you that don't care about profiting or haven't figured out how to profit. I wonder how many avatars are in EU simply because they've heard about Neverdie in a press release or internet gaming blog? So thinking that MA does not want YOU to succeed is ludicrous. Do you think we'd all still be here if we ALL KNEW this was a money pit? That would be like buying a lottery ticket in a lottery that no one has one in the last 50 years. Admit it, most of you have bought lottery tickets....i think the odds of winning the Powerball top prize is one in 44 million...i still play it, lol.

If you read this whole thing. Thank you. If you read any of it. Thank you. If you think i'm whacked out of my mind and wish i would never post here again. Thank you but, thats one wish that will never come true.

 

[AJack10600]

MA can't just "ban" you for finding a good way to play. It's up to you to try and beat the game. MA want you to try. But most people woant and that's how MA make money in average.

I doubt that anybody will find a real solution. The game is way too complex and there are too many factors and indicators that determine how the game works...

So keep trying

 

[Deke]

MA can't just "ban" you for finding a good way to play.

So keep trying

Sure they can. Just ask all the "scammers". I doubt every rule MA has in their EULA was there from the very beginning. Nobody has that much foresight. Auto-clickers are a great way to get skills and then sell them....banned. Programs that analyze the game (third party software) and give you an edge over the next guy...banned. If you find a way thats within the current EULA to consistantly profit from MA and not other players, the EULA will change and if you continue this behaviour you will be....banned. My point is you cannot take away profits from MA. You must make your profits from other players while allowing MA to continue to run their business as they see fit.

P.S.
I think the myth of the brand new avatar logging on and getting a mining tower are just that...a myth. Does anyone know anyone that has done this and then walked away from the game with a profit directly from MA?

 

[NastyCenturion]

EU is dynamic - that is and will be the only thing we know about EU mechanics.
There is no way (imo) to be 100% profitable unless u are trading but that is not under MA control.

 

[JoLin]

One of the reason to all the loot pool theories could be that the mystery has been solved once before. It is also great fun to try to come up with a theory some times. And to read them... some are so insane (mining theories) they have me laughing for days.

 

[BlackHawk]

MA can't just "ban" you for finding a good way to play. It's up to you to try and beat the game. MA want you to try. But most people woant and that's how MA make money in average.

I doubt that anybody will find a real solution. The game is way too complex and there are too many factors and indicators that determine how the game works...

So keep trying

Wrong.
For MA is not important who makes money in EU or who loses. If some lose or some win, MA has nothing from it. Some people will alwayse lose money. That is for sure. That is the entropy of the universe. MA can live just fine from that. If someone manage to beat the ENTROPY, MA dose not care. Your enemy is not MA. Is the entropy. Control that and you will profit. MA dose not care about that.

 

[Jimmy B]

Well, there's no harm in speculating how the loot system works imo. Understanding how a system works and being able to profit from that understanding are two different matters entirely...

I play games like Tetris on a site you can win money on. Each game has clearly laid out rules and even some strategy guides. Some games I'm good at some I'm not. Despite the fact that I know exactly how the games work and in most cases have worked out a decent strategy, I still stink at some of them

I do sometimes think MA could reveal a bit more information about game mechanics than they do but that's just the way they play it. The only way we'll ever completely understand how the loot system works will be if Marco gets drunk one day and tells us all.

 

[ka kaatje bou]

Great one deke! Keep on drinking
Ur just right about the markup-part, even if there are other right theory's, depending on markup is the only smart thing to do. Still would it take money to make money...

 

[Deke]

The only way we'll ever completely understand how the loot system works will be if Marco gets drunk one day and tells us all.

Got a great laugh out of this one and thought how true. Hey Marco, wanna go out for a drink? I'm Buying ....then i thought some more...Although MA is not a large company (employee wise)...bear with me here i'm on my 9th beer now...Even the CEO of a small company does not have total control over every aspect of the business. And an MMO? You'd have to be smarter than Einstein, Gates, Copernicus, Jobs and Forrest Gump to be able to review every line of code in this game. God help us if someone with enough gumption decided...i'll beat this game, i'm going to work for MA

 

[NightwolfAA2k5]

There is a rather persistant theory that the Perception skill influences loot... I'm not too sure about that, But I never used to profit much on hunts than I do now...

- Nightwolf

 

[Deke]

I would certainly agree that perception is one of the biggest mysteries in EU. And with that comment i'm off to bed...i hope more read this. It's just more fun to read theories when they are bounced off of your own i guess, lol. Yeah, in case you didn't notice my post was full of theories. Concerning the loot pool, thats all there is...just theories. Mines the best though

 

[Harvest]

I like bad theories but I really hate to see good ones in print. Think certain things you just shouldnt make public because of the compitition in game. I think some times ppl want recogniton from the community for helping it, missguided by their ego they share stuff they probably shouldnt be.

 

[Joat]

MA want some part of the playerbase to profit.
Why? Since that will help them to get more deposits done.
If they have wealth concentrated to some few, that will make the rest to
do more deposits (well, they think so at least ) since deposits always will
larger than the few lucky ones withdraws. This is also reason why MA want
resellers ingame, and why they are happy prices are high.
The problem is to find a balance so people doesn't get too upset and quit
when everything gets too expensive.

 

[AJack10600]

Wrong.
For MA is not important who makes money in EU or who loses. If some lose or some win, MA has nothing from it. Some people will alwayse lose money. That is for sure. That is the entropy of the universe. MA can live just fine from that. If someone manage to beat the ENTROPY, MA dose not care. Your enemy is not MA. Is the entropy. Control that and you will profit. MA dose not care about that.

Errr... I don't get your point

That's what I am saying .. MA does not care if you win, as most people will loose, that's how the business model works... So MA let's you try...

As soon as too many people find out a way to profit MA will just change how the loot works, you woant even notice... so no you woant be banned

 

[BlackHawk]

Errr... I don't get your point

That's what I am saying .. MA does not care if you win, as most people will loose, that's how the business model works... So MA let's you try...

As soon as too many people find out a way to profit MA will just change how the loot works, you woant even notice... so no you woant be banned

There will never be "to many people" that profit. Is a simple way of redistributing the numbers and there will never be to many people that profit. Not necesarly the same people, Not all the time unless they adapt, but they are. The system is made is such a way that dose not need to care about those that profit. The only people that care about those that profit are those that don't. Not MA.

Imagine you are in a room with many other people. The room has some holls on thefloor. Each man pays some coins and someoun trows them all up. They all land in diferent places. Some get nothing, some get morethan they had, and also some coin go thru the holes from the flor. Those belong to the owner of the house. EU is something like this...

MA want some part of the playerbase to profit.
Why? Since that will help them to get more deposits done.
If they have wealth concentrated to some few, that will make the rest to
do more deposits (well, they think so at least ) since deposits always will
larger than the few lucky ones withdraws. This is also reason why MA want
resellers ingame, and why they are happy prices are high.
The problem is to find a balance so people doesn't get too upset and quit
when everything gets too expensive.

Peoplr don't quit when it is to expensive, but when they know that is not worth it and is expensive for nothig. MA is not making items expensive, Players do and they do a great job.

 

[AJack10600]

There will never be "to many people" that profit. Is a simple way of redistributing the numbers and there will never be to many people that profit. Not necesarly the same people, Not all the time unless they adapt, but they are. The system is made is such a way that dose not need to care about those that profit. The only people that care about those that profit are those that don't. Not MA.

Imagine you are in a room with many other people. The room has some holls on thefloor. Each man pays some coins and someoun trows them all up. They all land in diferent places. Some get nothing, some get morethan they had, and also some coin go thru the holes from the flor. Those belong to the owner of the house. EU is something like this...



Peoplr don't quit when it is to expensive, but when they know that is not worth it and is expensive for nothig. MA is not making items expensive, Players do and they do a great job.

Mate I don't get why you're arguing with me ... you're saying the same thing I am saying in different words

 

[Igorl]

You cant beat the house - but you can beat other player.

Just like in poker tournament - there are professionals... and they win - and others lose.

Some activities are plaid agains the house, other against orher players... you find a way to be best in the ones plid against players - cause you wont beat the house for shure

The house is:

MA
ND
Deathifier
And SOME other LA / hangar / bank owners.

Others are just little players trying to get more than they put in.

I.

 

[Jimmy B]

I like bad theories but I really hate to see good ones in print. Think certain things you just shouldnt make public because of the compitition in game. I think some times ppl want recogniton from the community for helping it, missguided by their ego they share stuff they probably shouldnt be.

Sorry but that's getting a very rare -rep from me. Lots of people have spent a lot of time helping out others and creating resources that everyone (and I suspect yourself too) use from time to time. I don't think they deserve to be insulted for it, just because you're afraid that your selfish needs may be hindered if someone reveals something that you know about.

Whilst yes, it makes sense to not always reveal everything you know since certain things once revealed are rendered useless if everyone knows it (e.g. someone once posted about how profitable it was to craft Basic Sheet Metal - within a day or two of the thread, the market prices had adjusted because so many people were trying it).

However, the wealth of information that has been made available to people here and on other sites is invaluable to everyone in-game. People share their ideas partly because they enjoy helping others, but also because doing so often results in their own understanding being improved too. Imagine if none of the information available here, at wiki, at Zap's loot table, etc, had been made available. The information at those resources not only makes EU more accessible to newcomers, who may otherwise have just given up and left, but is also regularly used for reference by long-term players.

Some things are very hard to figure out by individuals alone. For instance the impact of skills on professions was only recently figured out and it took a collaberative effort from probably over 100 people in order to get all the data required and figure out the numbers. I really doubt anybody had figured out the full breakdown on their own beforehand. So by sharing our information, the community as a whole became more knowledgable and now we have great tools like jdegre's chipping optimiser which enables people to work out the most cost-effective chipping route to certain goals.

All this information isn't shared in order to feed egos. It is shared to help promote our own understanding of EU, to help other people enjoy EU more, to make EU a more welcoming and accessible place for newcomers. And in turn if those goals are met, the results benefit us all.

Whilst a selfish individual is sometimes more successful than an altruistic individual, a group comprised of altruistic individuals is almost always more successful than a group comprised of selfish individuals. (and I quote paraphrased from a paper on evolution in a science journal)

 

[Joat]

...
Peoplr don't quit when it is to expensive, but when they know that is not worth it and is expensive for nothig. MA is not making items expensive, Players do and they do a great job.

I know a lot of people that has quit since things (fees, taxes and so on) has
become to expensive with things that has zero to do with the core action
like hunting, mining, crafting or what ever they want to do. They don't quit
due they can't afford it, they quit since it has zero value in a entertainment
p.o.v. Some of us are here for entertainment, not make profit.
When we want profit, we work IRL.
MA controll drop, they can "easily" balance drop so prices never get too
extreme, but since the extreme prices is not always something bad for MA,
the chance drops will increase to make more players happy, are very slim.

 

[Harvest]

I like bad theories but I really hate to see good ones in print. Think certain things you just shouldnt make public because of the compitition in game. I think some times ppl want recogniton from the community for helping it, missguided by their ego they share stuff they probably shouldnt be.

Sorry but that's getting a very rare -rep from me. Lots of people have spent a lot of time helping out others and creating resources that everyone (and I suspect yourself too) use from time to time. I don't think they deserve to be insulted for it, just because you're afraid that your selfish needs may be hindered if someone reveals something that you know about.

Whilst yes, it makes sense to not always reveal everything you know since certain things once revealed are rendered useless if everyone knows it (e.g. someone once posted about how profitable it was to craft Basic Sheet Metal - within a day or two of the thread, the market prices had adjusted because so many people were trying it).

However, the wealth of information that has been made available to people here and on other sites is invaluable to everyone in-game. People share their ideas partly because they enjoy helping others, but also because doing so often results in their own understanding being improved too. Imagine if none of the information available here, at wiki, at Zap's loot table, etc, had been made available. The information at those resources not only makes EU more accessible to newcomers, who may otherwise have just given up and left, but is also regularly used for reference by long-term players.

Some things are very hard to figure out by individuals alone. For instance the impact of skills on professions was only recently figured out and it took a collaberative effort from probably over 100 people in order to get all the data required and figure out the numbers. I really doubt anybody had figured out the full breakdown on their own beforehand. So by sharing our information, the community as a whole became more knowledgable and now we have great tools like jdegre's chipping optimiser which enables people to work out the most cost-effective chipping route to certain goals.

All this information isn't shared in order to feed egos. It is shared to help promote our own understanding of EU, to help other people enjoy EU more, to make EU a more welcoming and accessible place for newcomers. And in turn if those goals are met, the results benefit us all.

Whilst a selfish individual is sometimes more successful than an altruistic individual, a group comprised of altruistic individuals is almost always more successful than a group comprised of selfish individuals. (and I quote paraphrased from a paper on evolution in a science journal)

I shouldnt had said "good theories". I think thats where I have misscomunicated my meaning. What I should had said was anything that will have a negative long term effect, to include what some would consider good. I truely belive that SOME ppl have shared info not really to help the community but to stroke their own ego or manipulate the materials markets.

There are some very good resources that ppl have spent lots of time compiling, I use and I have +Rep them. There are some very good resources that I use but I totally would never put them inprint, wish they didnt exsist and I wonder to myself "Why did they do that?" 1) They really didnt think about what they where doing while they did it and the true end result. 2) They arent doing it for the benifit of others but for the benifit of themselves in an unobvious way.

I am not trying (but my be succeding) to insult ppl. I know they have spent a long time figureing some of these charts and resources out. What I am trying to make ppl aware of is sharing of SOME info, is not the best idea and really take a second to think "Is this a good idea?" because theres a good chance its gonna turn out like the aboved mentioned "Sheet Metal", effect material markets and have unforseen negetive reactions and that benifits nobody.

I never said ALL info sharing was ego driven.

People that have been insulted by this I hope this clears it up for you.



And yes Jimmy I do see your problems with my previous statement.

 

[Acronoid]

You are nuts, insane in the coconut, a real macadamia

But so am I, and ya know what, the smartest people in the world are completely nuts. They see the truth, in the bizarre way of thinking, they are geniouses, but not adapted to the world of the "normals"

 

[Nicole]

A very small % of people make money in EU, and that is exactly how ma likes it!a

When I first started out about 4 years ago maybe the upper 10% of the most skilled players made stable profits, one of those players was a great legend of the game Andea Attriddies (spelling).

She (RL female) would make 3k per day hunting Tardians but that was along time ago.


A lot of the vet players have been complaining that its even harder these days to make proftits, so times are changing and even hunting with imk2 (UNAMPED) is no longer 100% way of making profits per hunt!

 

[Deke]

You are nuts, insane in the coconut, a real macadamia

But so am I, and ya know what, the smartest people in the world are completely nuts. They see the truth, in the bizarre way of thinking, they are geniouses, but not adapted to the world of the "normals"

Ummm....Thank you? I still haven't had the guts to go back and re-read my post (I will right after this, i promise). Alcohol has a tendency to make me think in the abstract. I do remember being quite passionate when i was typing it but, then again, alcohol makes me emotional too

I just reread it and i didn't mean to come off sounding harsh. I think the main point I was trying to get across is that...well, let me reserve comment on that and find out what everyone else thinks my point was. This will not only give me insight as to better ways to get my point across but, will also answer the question....Does anyone actually read any of the posts besides the first one and maybe the last one before replying?

 

[Deke]

B.U.M.P. I want more replies

 

[Igorl]

The only way to profit here is to provide services to other players.
And markup is basically how services are paid for.

I.