Question: Is Mining Resources MU going up a good thing?

[psyche]

Prices only get up , because if you minning regular you going know whats miners become...
And yes actual situation is bad bad for everyone

1 - Is bad to miner that even with stupid high mu fews items , they bare can hit break even
2 - its bad to hunt that not going buy overpriced wep
3 - Its snowball to crafters as well that not going produce/consume as much because people not buying
loop

I said several times
1 - Stop with this TT 90% Bullshit mindark revert changes to 2017...... no rares cap ..... no tt cap .... no fuck waves
2 - Rebalance this BP to use any universal Tier of Mineral
Like lysterium/cumbriz/iron/oil is Tier 1 i can trow any of that (not combine , just any value any of this) in refiner and or craft new comp called T1 Ingot (just damm example) and that use to craft anything else
why? so many useless ores/emt/comp out there you need scale down its make also more easy to balance

I love this idea. I like any idea that makes use of the useless resources. I think useless resources are bad for the game. We end up with a bunch of useless item. Waste of game space too. Why fill a game with items that have no use? Might be off topic, but would be nice to have a discussion about a clever solution to the useless / obsolete old weapons that currently fills the game.

 

[Legends]

I love this idea. I like any idea that makes use of the useless resources. I think useless resources are bad for the game. We end up with a bunch of useless item. Waste of game space too. Why fill a game with items that have no use? Might be off topic, but would be nice to have a discussion about a clever solution to the useless / obsolete old weapons that currently fills the game.

Well, not everything you loot/find can have value, every profession is set up that way. For example, when you are fishing for blueprints at the crafting machine, sometimes you loot very valuable BPs like AP-66 Impact for example, and sometimes you loot useless BPs with no value like AP-42 Shrapnel or Spectre armor BPs. In hunting, you can loot very valuable items or useless mindforce chips that have no mu. So what I'm saying is it's normal for this to work in the same way in mining; some resouces you find will be very valuable and some will be worthless.

But if we wanted to completely get rid of worthless resources, it could be done I guess, but the miners would have to receive shrapnel or something similar that could then be converted back to new probes.

 

[Ivo Jahrumble]

Well, not everything you loot/find can have value, every profession is set up that way. For example, when you are fishing for blueprints at the crafting machine, sometimes you loot very valuable BPs like AP-66 Impact for example, and sometimes you loot useless BPs with no value like AP-42 Shrapnel or Spectre armor BPs. In hunting, you can loot very valuable items or useless mindforce chips that have no mu. So what I'm saying is it's normal for this to work in the same way in mining; some resouces you find will be very valuable and some will be worthless.

But if we wanted to completely get rid of worthless resources, it could be done I guess, but the miners would have to receive shrapnel or something similar that could then be converted back to new probes.

It has been that way forever. Some things are worth more than others even in mining. Or do you account for those rare bps at the beginning of the crafting run? I understand they are SOOTOs... And as such not part of our math.

The worthless stuff in mining had a purpose to serve in game before 2014 and EPs. And this balanced out the economy to its true and expected levels. At least in mining and crafting. It even created a breakeven point of quantity vs condition crafting. Even for items!

Check auction by decade and watch carefully between years 2012 to 2014 what happens to metal residue value, Narc, Duru, Belkar, Niks. There is no other reason for that drop in value other than the lack of demand caused by the EPs bps that substituted OA-101, standard dampers and many other tt food bps that sanitized the economy of those worthless resources.

What happened in my view was that in an effort to lower cost of hunting as there is no regular markup in loot (only SOOTO events or HOFs usually bring in good items) we (MA & players) trapped the whole economy below what should be the natural average of 105%/107% for residual loot, 110/120% for belkars and stuff.

And this is the point where vadio and marcos idea of sinking all worthless loot from hunting and mining into "nanocubes" and simplify loot a bit comes into play as a great idea.

What hunting always missed was a loot dumpster like mining had until 2014. And this would be a great way to link highturnover players and create a highturnover economy. Not just some small parts of loot.

Let both hunters and miners provide "spice" to crafters in the form of useless loot. Not the TT with nanocubes. Its really unfair on the players as it stalls the economy completely.

And don´t get me started on ideas to sanitize the infinity of unL items. Happy with tiering guys? Players bitched so much that requiring an equal item to tier up and having a chance to lose it was to much back then. Now we have same number of players in playerpool and 3x that number of unL guns avaliable. In a RCE this leave market for???

Maybe the robots should attack the repair terminals rendering them useless. And we had to craft repair terminals to repair unL guns. Little they know they would be doing us a favour

 

[Legends]

It has been that way forever. Some things are worth more than others even in mining. Or do you account for those rare bps at the beginning of the crafting run? I understand they are SOOTOs... And as such not part of our math.

I don't know what you are referring to here when you say "rare bps at the beginning of the crafting run"... I was just saying that some stuff you loot/find is worth a lot and some is worthless and that this is the case in every profession. It's impossible for everything you loot/find to be valuable, that just cannot be, it wouldn't be a functionning economy.

The worthless stuff in mining had a purpose to serve in game before 2014 and EPs. And this balanced out the economy to its true and expected levels. At least in mining and crafting. It even created a breakeven point of quantity vs condition crafting. Even for items!

Check auction by decade and watch carefully between years 2012 to 2014 what happens to metal residue value, Narc, Duru, Belkar, Niks. There is no other reason for that drop in value other than the lack of demand caused by the EPs bps that substituted OA-101, standard dampers and many other tt food bps that sanitized the economy of those worthless resources.

What happened in my view was that in an effort to lower cost of hunting as there is no regular markup in loot (only SOOTO events or HOFs usually bring in good items) we (MA & players) trapped the whole economy below what should be the natural average of 105%/107% for residual loot, 110/120% for belkars and stuff.

And this is the point where vadio and marcos idea of sinking all worthless loot from hunting and mining into "nanocubes" and simplify loot a bit comes into play as a great idea.

What hunting always missed was a loot dumpster like mining had until 2014. And this would be a great way to link highturnover players and create a highturnover economy. Not just some small parts of loot.

Let both hunters and miners provide "spice" to crafters in the form of useless loot. Not the TT with nanocubes. Its really unfair on the players as it stalls the economy completely.

I think what you are describing here is the Gizmo BPs for fishing for limited blueprints, aka the new "blueprint economy". Crafters have to constantly "fish" for new BPs and in order to do so, they must do thousands of clicks of Gizmos. A ton of Animal Oils get used up in this process; lately, you could not buy Liver Oil from the auction for less than 107%, for example, and Adrenal Oil went up to just above 105% as well. This system will work but still needs time to strike the right balance. Also, a little birdie told me that soon, every planet will be revamping their blueprint economy, this should have some beneficial effect for the markup of Animal Oils.

As for miners, well, those "filler" resources such as Lyst and Oil will always have poor mu so long as they are "fillers". Which is why I talked about adding shrapnel in mining returns. But I don't think the idea proposed by Vadio and seconded by MsTurlese is the best solution. I understand the problem they are trying to resolve, but there are better long-term solutions like for example introducing new buildings for Land Plots that require millions of Basic Filters, Basic Processors and Basic Auxilliary Sockets to construct, as just one example. This would give new crafters an opportunity to enter the profession and build up skills while at the same time raising mu of Lyst, Melchi and Oil to a more sustainable level. That's just one example, same idea could be applied to take care of the mu of other resources like Niksa, Iron, Blausariam, etc...

And don´t get me started on ideas to sanitize the infinity of unL items. Happy with tiering guys? Players bitched so much that requiring an equal item to tier up and having a chance to lose it was to much back then. Now we have same number of players in playerpool and 3x that number of unL guns avaliable. In a RCE this leave market for???

Maybe the robots should attack the repair terminals rendering them useless. And we had to craft repair terminals to repair unL guns. Little they know they would be doing us a favour

MA is aware and understands that introducing too many UL items would wreck the in-game economy in more ways than one, they have repeatedly stated in both AMAs that ways of "consuming" (removing) UL items from the game is something they talk about a lot at MindArk and are passionate about. So in my opnion, we can expect new systems and "upgrades" in the future that will effectively "remove" some UL items in ingenious ways and keep it balanced so that there is never too many in game. Forexample by following the same formula as the 5B upgrade chain where 2 of the previous level of the item is destroyed to make one of the next level item. Gorgon armor and Serpent Scales work in the same way, so I bet they will do something similar for UL rifles, in this way, the number of UL items introduced via the Mayhem Token Vencor isn't really that scary to me.

 

[Ivo Jahrumble]

I think what you are describing here is the Gizmo BPs for fishing for limited blueprints, aka the new "blueprint economy". Crafters have to constantly "fish" for new BPs and in order to do so, they must do thousands of clicks of Gizmos. A ton of Animal Oils get used up in this process; lately, you could not buy Liver Oil from the auction for less than 107%, for example, and Adrenal Oil went up to just above 105% as well. This system will work but still needs time to strike the right balance. Also, a little birdie told me that soon, every planet will be revamping their blueprint economy, this should have some beneficial effect for the markup of Animal Oils.

As for miners, well, those "filler" resources such as Lyst and Oil will always have poor mu so long as they are "fillers". Which is why I talked about adding shrapnel in mining returns. But I don't think the idea proposed by Vadio and seconded by MsTurlese is the best solution. I understand the problem they are trying to resolve, but there are better long-term solutions like for example introducing new buildings for Land Plots that require millions of Basic Filters, Basic Processors and Basic Auxilliary Sockets to construct, as just one example. This would give new crafters an opportunity to enter the profession and build up skills while at the same time raising mu of Lyst, Melchi and Oil to a more sustainable level. That's just one example, same idea could be applied to take care of the mu of other resources like Niksa, Iron, Blausariam, etc...

All of that are good ideas, excellent ones! Maybe a final product to what needs to be done.

I have said before as well that I would prefer a more fundamentally good solution than the simple patch they talk about.

All those ideas won´t work as planned long as people have bypass BPs to craft on that are simpler and cheaper. You won´t convince any EP bp crafter to pay more to craft those Land Plots instead. And thats what the general idea of Vadio and Marco adresses in the present. Not in 5 years from now, joke aside... it´s MindArk we talking bout. A tantardion will do anything kicker than MA implementing all that.

 

[Sulje]

Lots of smart people in this thread. I don’t do mining except begrudgingly when a mission demands it, so I feel I have less insight into ore/enm fluctuations.
So can somebody explain to me the sharp increase in Medical Compress recently? Got a fap to tier up and not too excited too under current conditions. I don’t think it’s used much except to make a few run of the mill L faps, and of course fap tiering, but I think those would be fairly small markets.
Has the drop rate on this resource changed?
Have the locations changed and miners haven’t found it again yet?

same drop rate, just some rich people tiering up their hedocs ) wait it out, once they are done, it will be cheaper again.

 

[Msturlese]

maybe it is not this way but if Frakite was 200% and not 3k% and Perseus was 115% markup there would be more players hunting monster that they can kill with the weapons they wield

 

[Vadio]

well as i keep saying

1 - Back tt to 95% +- based tool and skills LIKE this game should be
*Otherwise is pure gamble rigth? with defined RTP and regulate by looto swedish gamble laws

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And Everyone should know reality of gamble... if not know yet,,, i true recomend watch trainwreckstv on twitch fews days....

Maybe i need contact they to make another audition in mindark codes again

2 - Remove cap to Rares , yes i remind times you can spend whole day minning frakite/redu(and many others) , price are enough , everyone happy include crafters and hunters , yes i want my damm ruga 4k tower , is ask to much?

3 - Stop with Waves..... is shit system help no one... and dont make you generate more money only less money f rom decay in long term

4 - Stop flood game with UL items , only UL should be allowed is Blueprint to make L items...

Going say again... atm this game run on Comunism/State Economy
Switch to Free Market.... and Fixing you core link between hunt/minning that its called craft , if you fix this you fix both minning and hunt same time

[Edit]
They switch all points above to make players earn less money and need deposit more often... or stop playing but like Gamble Addiction Its hard to stop
you keep pump and spin and expect other outcome you spend even more money change setups and skilling with hope going be better its not , they did pragmatic over years nerfing any chance profit , you can argue you profit in events , and yes i agree entropia become big seassonal hunt event game
If is good or not i leave up you

 

[Sulje]

maybe it is not this way but if Frakite was 200% and not 3k% and Perseus was 115% markup there would be more players hunting monster that they can kill with the weapons they wield

best defense is evade/dodge, armor is waste of money.

 

[papinana]

Everything cap... bring back old loot 1.0

 

[Legends]

This is true for some things like for example Belkar and Garcen, but somehow, Pyrite did not come back down between Merry Mayhem and Easter Mayhem, it stayed up, actually went higher (from about 170% at the end of Merry Mayhem to around 190% before Easter Mayhem).

I think I know these cycles pretty well, been observing them for years, but I think this time, Antimagnetic Oil, Redulite and Light Liquid are in a new range now and will not be coming down much unless MA intervenes. Erdorium and Dianthus could also never come back down around the 140% range where it used to sit between Mayhems.

So that's what I'm talking about.

Almost a year later and this statement turned out to be mostly true; Redulite never came back down, Antimagnetic Oil came down a bit briefly but quickly went back up above 300%, same with Light Liquid (I blame tiering requirements for that one). Erdorium has come back down, but Dianthus has not, it's staying firmly above 200% now. We can add Ignisium to the list of resources that have become too expensive, it is now sitting around 250% and somehow it doesn't look like it's going to come back down anytime soon.

 

[Jade Draconis]

Almost a year later and this statement turned out to be mostly true; Redulite never came back down, Antimagnetic Oil came down a bit briefly but quickly went back up above 300%, same with Light Liquid (I blame tiering requirements for that one). Erdorium has come back down, but Dianthus has not, it's staying firmly above 200% now. We can add Ignisium to the list of resources that have become too expensive, it is now sitting around 250% and somehow it doesn't look like it's going to come back down anytime soon.

Ignisium has become rarer than pyrite to an extent. I used to mine it so regularly on Ark and now i find 50 ped in a 500 cycle. maybe even less. id justify the mu on that considering it is used for so many bps. juat my experience though as a regualr Ark miner