Lifespan of enhancers?

[Sunab Naverith]

Has anyone determined if the enhancers last a certain span of clicks, or can they disappear randomly anytime between 1st to 1,000th click??

Because I was thinking of a whole NEW level of scam that can be pulled now, thanks to MA doing the stackable route instead of L with a visible healthbar.

Let's say they do last ~1k clicks. Not hard to code/get a program that you can run to keep track of # of clicks on a specific button/hotkey, that would lock out use of the button after, say, 990 clicks. Person using the enhancer then pulls it out, puts in a box/bag/whatever, and then when he's done with the hunt/mining run, goes and puts it up on auction for full market.
Some poor soul buys it, sticks it on, and gets 10 clicks out of before... "Boing!" it's broke & gone.

Has anyone else thought of this potential scam, and if so - has it been posted? I see this as VERY detrimental to the (potential) future enhancer market if it's plausible, especially considering how many (*ahem*) less than ethical individuals we have who would take full advantage of this - just like they do when posting Technician available blueprints for 2~3 ped... .

 

[Executor]

Deleted post.

 

[Coop_]

I thing I have read that they break after 1250 uses.
Maybe Auktuma wrote it, not sure.

You are very right that there is no condition information on them when trading, this is risky.

(Also they have no stat at all, but I think we can live with that, thanks to EF and Entropedia...)

MA, as usual.

He probably wrote that one enhancer broke after 1250 uses. It is simply a random "check" to see if it breaks each time, maybe 1/1000 chance to break with each use. So if it has been used 1250 times and hasn't broken, there no reason to think it won't last another 1000 uses on average, thus no way to scam someone.

The whole thing is a little dicey if you ask me--nobody is gonna jump for joy if they get a few more than average uses, but when somebody loses one on the first use, be sure we will hear about it.

 

[billairboy]

He probably wrote that one enhancer broke after 1250 uses. It is simply a random "check" to see if it breaks each time, maybe 1/1000 chance to break with each use. So if it has been used 1250 times and hasn't broken, there no reason to think it won't last another 1000 uses on average, thus no way to scam someone.

The whole thing is a little dicey if you ask me--nobody is gonna jump for joy if they get a few more than average uses, but when somebody loses one on the first use, be sure we will hear about it.

Well, to be usefull the markup most go down under 200% i think and at that rate one enhancer will cost under 1 ped (level 1) so is not that one break will get you crying. But on the higher tier level they will get more expansive i guess.

 

[Naifas Anaconda]

I tried one enhancer today.. i sacrificed 5 ped to test a freaking range enhancer for socket I. The 5% increase in range is only useful in tag weapons of course. Still i putted it in an apis (lol, an increase of ~3 m up to 61,2m...... not meaningful) to see how long would it last.

Initial TT when i reached tear 1 and inserted the enhancer: 174,50
TT of weapon when enhancer broke: 164,22 (actually, it's a bit more, since i fired 1 extra shot without enhancer before taking note of the tt).
Elapsed time: a whooping 16 minute of pure madness (cof cof). And i made a pause to chat with wife...

Conclusion: do we really need this crap of system as it is? I feel really bad for people who invested large markups on this, all i can see is a huge FLOP in this system. And all goes out in smoke.

If you need picture confirmation, i'll upload it tomorrow... it's too late right now for me to do it. Cheers!

 

[Sunab Naverith]

Thnx for the info m8, will calculate the clicks later... anyone else care to post their enhancer lifespans, so we can figure if it's an average, or an exact science?

 

[JackyHorror]

blows

enhancers is a big joke (mindark scam to pump more $ out of nubs)

 

[billairboy]

I tried one enhancer today.. i sacrificed 5 ped to test a freaking range enhancer for socket I. The 5% increase in range is only useful in tag weapons of course. Still i putted it in an apis (lol, an increase of ~3 m up to 61,2m...... not meaningful) to see how long would it last.

Initial TT when i reached tear 1 and inserted the enhancer: 174,50
TT of weapon when enhancer broke: 164,22 (actually, it's a bit more, since i fired 1 extra shot without enhancer before taking note of the tt).
Elapsed time: a whooping 16 minute of pure madness (cof cof). And i made a pause to chat with wife...

Conclusion: do we really need this crap of system as it is? I feel really bad for people who invested large markups on this, all i can see is a huge FLOP in this system. And all goes out in smoke.

If you need picture confirmation, i'll upload it tomorrow... it's too late right now for me to do it. Cheers!

Well as i have sad, i think they are design for a markup somewhere between 100-200 %, so only wait and see where things goes

 

[Naifas Anaconda]

According to my calculations, 343.81 clicks. I shot one extra time.. so.. we can round that to 343 clicks. That doesn't seem reasonable! If it is random, given my average luck, then i think the average person will perform much better. But nevertheless, this sucks! It is a system where the guarantee of your product is absolutely zero! They should leave randomness to loots, and don't mess with tools!

 

[Manique]

I have no idea,
But its interesting to know,
I'll only test this if it gets cheaper (which will take some months)

 

[billairboy]

According to my calculations, 343.81 clicks. I shot one extra time.. so.. we can round that to 343 clicks. That doesn't seem reasonable! If it is random, given my average luck, then i think the average person will perform much better. But nevertheless, this sucks! It is a system where the guarantee of your product is absolutely zero! They should leave randomness to loots, and don't mess with tools!

i think you must change your "mind set", think of it as a kind of ammuntion to be consumed, not a "tool".

 

[Naifas Anaconda]

i think you must change your "mind set", think of it as a kind of ammuntion to be consumed, not a "tool".

do you loose ammunition randomly when you fire your weapon? same thing.

 

[billairboy]

do you loose ammunition randomly when you fire your weapon? same thing.

no but in the long run we will see an avarage value. If the avarage breaking point is 300 shoots or if we know for sure it allways break a 300 shoots don't matter in the long run. My guess why they have done it this way is that the "random breaking" make them able to have the enhancers without decay, no need to keep track of the decay of each enhancer.

 

[Coop_]

i think you must change your "mind set", think of it as a kind of ammuntion to be consumed, not a "tool".

do you loose ammunition randomly when you fire your weapon? same thing.

The more of these things you stack on the weapon, the closer you will likely get to the average durability, and so it will start to seem less random and more predictable.

Ofc that won't work with current prices.

 

[Executor]

Deleted post.

 

[McCormick]

lol ?

 

[Kamarkos Danix]

this is really the shite...

Now MA, FPC, whatever are joking on us !

Imagine that now weapons, tools and armor didn't have a decay bar, and it breaks after some random uses.

This is

 

[Huskie]

Keep in mind that they also increase the decay of the base item they're inserted into proportionally to the benefit granted, so on top of the enhancer's cost, you're also paying extra base-item decay.

Add that to the random number of uses, the cost to tier up UL stuff (if you're not using L), and you'll have to get to a really, really tiny MU for them to be remotely useful other than for PvP. And since it's such a pain in the ass crafting them, due to the sheer diversity and amount of different resources needed, that is never going to happen.

Conclusion:

Enhancers = big fuss over a waste of time...

 

[billairboy]

Keep in mind that they also increase the decay of the base item they're inserted into proportionally to the benefit granted, so on top of the enhancer's cost, you're also paying extra base-item decay.

Do you have confirmation that the decay increase?

 

[Huskie]

Do you have confirmation that the decay increase?

See for yourself in Auktuma's last discovery thread. Granted it is one enhancer type it is about, but I don't think MA would refrain to making only one of the enhancers increase decay, too. It is a heal enhancers for fap, so I think it is very unlikely that damage enhancer on weapons and defense enhancers for armor, at the very least, don't also increase the base item's decay.

I guess none of those who have used enhancers have done the fruit test after applying it and using the item once, to see if the decay increases.

 

[waperboy]

All info suggest that an enhancer has a probability to break each time it is used. Sometimes, one will break after first use, others will last thousands of uses.

This means that an ehancer does not have a "state of health", so there's no difference in using a "used" one and a brand new one.

Now, the probability to break need not be static - as a parallel, Tier Increase Rate seems rather blurry to get to grips with, other than that higher is generally faster - so enhancer breakage probability could also be dynamic...

 

[Johned]

Back to the original topic - Yes, I see the auction will be suspect when buying these. We saw the new BPs from the technician put on auction for high markup and if people will scam with tt items like these why would they not scam with enhancers. Seems like a dream come true to them, no way for the person buying to know if it is mostly used or not - no matter how much the buyer knows about how the system works.

 

[billairboy]

See for yourself in Auktuma's last discovery thread. Granted it is one enhancer type it is about, but I don't think MA would refrain to making only one of the enhancers increase decay, too. It is a heal enhancers for fap, so I think it is very unlikely that damage enhancer on weapons and defense enhancers for armor, at the very least, don't also increase the base item's decay.

I guess none of those who have used enhancers have done the fruit test after applying it and using the item once, to see if the decay increases.

yeah i did see his post after i posted here, a bit disappointing in my opinion, i thought the "only" cost would be the enhancers themself. Now it will only be more expansive useing the enhancers

 

[Etopia]

All info suggest that an enhancer has a probability to break each time it is used. Sometimes, one will break after first use, others will last thousands of uses.

This means that an ehancer does not have a "state of health", so there's no difference in using a "used" one and a brand new one.

We have no clue how this was coded , and what are the odd and the security MA did make...
For exemple , you maybe have 10% chance to break an enhancer at every use.
Or an enhancer can get a ramdom number of use when created.
Or a mix of both methode , at evry use a check is made , but if enhancer get to some number of use it break anyway...
Also the chance of break enhancer can be same for all player , or change depending on some variable...

 

[waperboy]

We have no clue how this was coded , and what are the odd and the security MA did make...
For exemple , you maybe have 10% chance to break an enhancer at every use.
Or an enhancer can get a ramdom number of use when created.
Or a mix of both methode , at evry use a check is made , but if enhancer get to some number of use it break anyway...
Also the chance of break enhancer can be same for all player , or change depending on some variable...

Yea you're right, we don't know. But logically, I'd say it's likely to be a chance to break at every use - for reasons of simplicity. To get a random number of uses when created, is the same as having a health bar, and also having to keep track in database about every single enhancer's usage.

But as you say, we can't know for sure. Maybe the first times soemone uses an enhancer for 2000 clicks, than sells it, and the buyer uses it for 2000 more clicks, we might get some hint...

 

[Etopia]

Yea you're right, we don't know. But logically, I'd say it's likely to be a chance to break at every use - for reasons of simplicity. To get a random number of uses when created, is the same as having a health bar, and also having to keep track in database about every single enhancer's usage.

Never , ever ever think logicaly about what MA do...they are specialist to make unlogical things because their prioritise deferent things that other people/compagnie.

It depend how things are made...
all the solution i speak about are simple...
You anyway must track in DB every singel enhancer.Its mainly a problem on where you want the stress , if you prefer to have it in DB or in server... but anyway , for security purpose , i am prety sure that MA would store a max number of use...

But as you say, we can't know for sure. Maybe the first times soemone uses an enhancer for 2000 clicks, than sells it, and the buyer uses it for 2000 more clicks, we might get some hint...

If i ever use those enhancer , i will ressel to you those of mine that are still alive after 500 use for the marquet price...would you go for such a risk when you have know clue how the system work , or will you prefer buy first hand made from a crafter?

 

[Sunab Naverith]

Ok, did a test. Buckled and bought some of the d.... crystal power (forgot how to spell it, lol) and made myself an Accuracy socket 1 enhancer (had all the other mats looted already ). Out of 3 clicks, made one. (figured best test would be ME making one, rather than chancing buying one, no matter the seller)

Put it in the Svempa X1 at a starting TT of 148.58 ped. Had a dante amp on it, and a dynera laser sight. At 139.35 ped TT value, had the msg of the enhancer breaking (and quite a unique noise that is, made me think it was a new crit sound or something).

Now, *if* I'm doing this math right, it comes out to this:
Lifespan ~319 clicks X 19(00) ammo/click = 6061(00) ammo = 60.61 ped ammo & 9.23 ped decay?
I don't know if the accuracy enhancer causes any extra decay... it doesn't say so, and I didn't see any extra ammo burn, so forgive me if my numbers don't count that in - I don't know lol.

The long of the short is this - without some serious price reduction, and/or some major overhaul, enhancers are just going to be the 'random rich boy toy'. Those 3 clicks cost me (market wise) around 50 ped for what I used, and if the fact that they want you to carry around a STACK of these enhancers per slot for a full run is any indication, this is a massive random ped sink that has no return (gee, 40 pec per random enhancer breaking? That'll boost loot...).

My suggestion? Set a damned lifespan on them, WITH A COUNTER VISIBLE like 1000/1000 power (or just get a f'kin lifebar like they should have in the first place!). I know we'll see prices drop in the near future, but it also got me thinking on one other interesting thing...
The blazar fragment is the first of many fragments we're going to end up looting. What if we end up having either of the two following scenarios:
1. Upwards of half dozen~dozen different frags start dropping. Market will go haywire as it's entirely random when/if you get them.
2. For miners, you can get special mining-looted only frags, and crafters get their own kind - each in place of random complete failures or NRF's? I see basic filters having a new place in each crafters heart for shard farming, lol!
But point is, if other frag types get introduced, the blazar frag could end up being reduced in drop rate to the degree where we will see 1-2 ped a shard (or more) for an otherwise nearly useless and unpredictable system, that seems to have a crappy dice roll chance of screwing the buyer over (what was that other thread saying, 6 clicks and it bust?).

Ah well, time shall tell...

 

[Coop_]

Ok, did a test. Buckled and bought some of the d.... crystal power (forgot how to spell it, lol) and made myself an Accuracy socket 1 enhancer (had all the other mats looted already ). Out of 3 clicks, made one. (figured best test would be ME making one, rather than chancing buying one, no matter the seller)

Put it in the Svempa X1 at a starting TT of 148.58 ped. Had a dante amp on it, and a dynera laser sight. At 139.35 ped TT value, had the msg of the enhancer breaking (and quite a unique noise that is, made me think it was a new crit sound or something).

Now, *if* I'm doing this math right, it comes out to this:
Lifespan ~319 clicks X 19(00) ammo/click = 6061(00) ammo = 60.61 ped ammo & 9.23 ped decay?

So with the dante, the X1 does average damage of 81.75. If I understand the accuracy enhancer correctly, it gives a 20% boost to your chances of scoring a critical hit. If you normally score criticals on 2% of shots, with the enhancer you would get criticals on an additional 0.4% of shots, for a total of 2.4% of shots.

Since a critical doubles the average damage for those shots, you are dealing an extra 81.75 damage on 0.4% of shots. So on average you are gaining .327 damage per shot (81.75*0.4%).

Your enhancer lasted 319 shots, so you gained an expected total of 104.31 points of damage. Calculated at the tt value of the enhancer, that's just 2.608 avgdam/pec. That's slightly below the 2.667 avgdam/pec you are getting with the X1+dante at market rate.

It will be interesting to see what the average number of uses ends up being. At 500 uses, the avgdam/pec of the enhancer soars to 4.088.

Of course with the price you paid, the eco of the enhancer falls to almost nothing (0.021 actually).

Now consider the case of PVP. If you are attacking someone in Hermes+6a with your x1+dante, you only score an average of 20 points damage per hit. So your effective eco drops to 0.709 dmg/pec. But all of the extra damage from critical hits goes to the target. So for the enhancer to reach that same economy, and assuming average of 500 uses, you could pay 550% mu for the enhancer. And if the enhancer means the difference between looting and getting looted, the benefits quickly outweigh the costs.