PC: Weapon Economy Enhancers

[Konve]

These seem to be worth a pretty penny. Are they? What do you guys think, are they worth it? Or are they too expensive?


So far as I can tell;
EP-40 Mercenary Modified+A204 has 3.083 DPP.
Justifier Mk.II Improved unamped has 3.280 DPP.


Now, assuming that enhancers break 1 every 1000 shots and cost 500 %, by my calculations;

T5 EP-40 Mercenary Modified+A204 with 5 eco enh has 3.126 DPP.
T5 Justifier Mk.II Improved unamped with 5 eco enh has 3.338 DPP.

T10 EP-40 Mercenary Modified+A204 with 10 eco enh has 3.254DPP.
T10 Justifier Mk.II Improved unamped with 10 eco enh has 3.517 DPP.

 

[minim]

Useless for other than tiering guns. Won't improve Eco due to breakrate and markup.

 

[Harmony.]

Useless for other than tiering guns. Won't improve Eco due to breakrate and markup.

You did read the maths in the OP didn't you?

 

[Skaffen]

MA Ass

You did read the maths in the OP didn't you?

My bad. Misunderstood - still doubt at 500% they improve eco.

 

[minim]

You did read the maths in the OP didn't you?

I did, was just replying shortly

Correct me if I'm wrong someone but check this out


Average damage on MM+A204 is (87*0,75*0,90)+1,74= 60,465 dmg/shot

1000 shots is 60465 dmg
1000 shots cost is 19610 pec

This restult in 60465/19610 = 3,083375828658858 dmg/pec (lol)

So let's add enhancers into the mix. 1breaks for each slot at 5x enhancers in. Eco enhancers are 1ped TT each and at 500% markup that's 5ped each enhancer or 25ped in enhancers for every 1000 shot. 25ped=2500pecs.

1000 shots still 60465 dmg
1000 shots cost is 18845+2500= 21345

This result in 60465/21345 = 2.8327.... and so on dmg/pec

Counting with enhancers at TT
60465/19345= 3,125dmg/pec

Enhancer price to break even (not enhancing eco but getting the same as without enhancers)

((19610-18845)/500)*100=153%

5*1.53= 7,65ped

60465/(18845+765)=3,083

 

[RobBuona]

I've never understood eco enhancers. If we could get them with low markup they would be worth it no doubt, but at ~800% markup they hurt more than help. This is no doubt because of the rarity of the BPs, but nevertheless the markup is too much. At such high MU they are cheaper to craft yourself even if you buy Dianthus at normal MU. They are probably worth it in that case, but otherwise they aren't worth it.

 

[Fanan]

The only use I can think for these economy enhancers with the actual price would be use them on expensive L weapons or for L weapons when you want to reach high tiers for some reason.


With actual price of these don't think they are suited to any unL weapon.

 

[Viperstrike]

IMO,

At there current cost, vs the cost of mats to make them, they don't fit in with the rest of the economies MU rates for the "vs loot returned" prospect.

So no, no enhancers are worth it at this time for any item, ranging above 150% MU.

 

[danimal01]

You are mis-informed, it is NOT 1 break in 1000 shots. An official representative working with MindArk has already stated that it is random.

~Danimal

 

[narfi]

You are mis-informed, it is NOT 1 break in 1000 shots. An official representative working with MindArk has already stated that it is random.

~Danimal

Of course it is random, but random in a range has an average, and that is what you have to work with.

I dont know if 1k is the average or not, but would be interested in a couple other scinarios....

High dmg low reload weapons, Baringer SR47 and Dragons Breath specifically interest me.

High markup weapons that are fairly eco even at that markup.... For example Isis Project Zero-Five

 

[Dollymaus]

I've never understood eco enhancers. If we could get them with low markup they would be worth it no doubt, but at ~800% markup they hurt more than help. This is no doubt because of the rarity of the BPs, but nevertheless the markup is too much. At such high MU they are cheaper to craft yourself even if you buy Dianthus at normal MU. They are probably worth it in that case, but otherwise they aren't worth it.

They should be worth a try at weapons with over 300 damage/shot like the bigger grenade launchers

 

[Harmony.]

ok, someone buy 10 and post the results when they are all gone

 

[Vaako]

You did read the maths in the OP didn't you?

There is no math in the OP, just a claim about the enhancer efficiency.

 

[girtsn]

Now, assuming that enhancers break 1 every 1000 shots and cost 500 %, by my calculations;

T5 EP-40 Mercenary Modified+A204 with 5 eco enh has 3.126 DPP.
T5 Justifier Mk.II Improved unamped with 5 eco enh has 3.338 DPP.

T10 EP-40 Mercenary Modified+A204 with 10 eco enh has 3.254DPP.
T10 Justifier Mk.II Improved unamped with 10 eco enh has 3.517 DPP.

"my calculations" - cool
care to share at least decay reduction per enhancer added?
i do am inclined to think your math is off related to Friday evening
at 500%, this does not make any sense

 

[mjukis]

The calculations in the original post assumes that only one enhancer breaks every 1000 shots regardless of how many slots are filled with enhancers. With 5 slots filled you will spend 5 times as many enhancers, and 10 times as many with all 10 slots filled. Assuming a break rate of 1/1000 and 500% markup the actual numbers would be

T5 EP-40 Mercenary Modified+A204 with 5 eco enh has 2.833 DPP.
T5 Justifier Mk.II Improved unamped with 5 eco enh has 2.945 DPP.

T10 EP-40 Mercenary Modified+A204 with 10 eco enh has 2.620DPP.
T10 Justifier Mk.II Improved unamped with 10 eco enh has 2.672 DPP.

 

[Konve]

Post anything and people freak out. It'd be nice if half the forum lost their general bad-will attitude and either chilled for a bit or went on a holiday far away from here.

I did, was just replying shortly

Correct me if I'm wrong someone but check this out


Average damage on MM+A204 is (87*0,75*0,90)+1,74= 60,465 dmg/shot

1000 shots is 60465 dmg
1000 shots cost is 19610 pec

This restult in 60465/19610 = 3,083375828658858 dmg/pec (lol)

So let's add enhancers into the mix. 1breaks for each slot at 5x enhancers in. Eco enhancers are 1ped TT each and at 500% markup that's 5ped each enhancer or 25ped in enhancers for every 1000 shot. 25ped=2500pecs.

1000 shots still 60465 dmg
1000 shots cost is 18845+2500= 21345

This result in 60465/21345 = 2.8327.... and so on dmg/pec

Counting with enhancers at TT
60465/19345= 3,125dmg/pec

Enhancer price to break even (not enhancing eco but getting the same as without enhancers)

((19610-18845)/500)*100=153%

5*1.53= 7,65ped

60465/(18845+765)=3,083

Entropedia has it down at 86.7 DPS (average) and 86 APM. A minute has 60 seconds, so..

(86.7*60)/86 = 60.488 average DMG per shot.

(I don't know how Entropedia calculates DPS, I just use their numbers.)

Anyway, the main difference in my and your calculation is that I assumed 1 break every 1000 shots. Not 1 per enhancer per 1000 shots. So I get;

(DPP*Cost)/(New cost)
(DPP*Cost) gives you average DMG with enhancers, calculated by Entropedia. Divide that by the total cost including markup to get the real DPP.

@ 5 enhancers
(3.209*18.845)/(18.845+0.1*5) = 3.126 DPP.

There are some rounding errors in Entropedia (3.209*18.845 is 60.473605, not 60.488) and there's no knowing if the Enhancers actually do change the stats like Entropedia assumes, in the "real world". But it's the best I can do.

If I calculated like you I'd get;

@ 5 enhancers
(3.209*18.845)/(18.845+0.1*5*5) = 2.833 DPP.

There is no math in the OP, just a claim about the enhancer efficiency.

I didn't want to bore you. Happy?

"my calculations" - cool
care to share at least decay reduction per enhancer added?
i do am inclined to think your math is off related to Friday evening
at 500%, this does not make any sense

1 %.

You are mis-informed, it is NOT 1 break in 1000 shots. An official representative working with MindArk has already stated that it is random.

~Danimal

I have no idea how often they break. Which is why I said I assumed they break 1 every 1000 shots. That means they are more efficient the more of them you use.

If I knew how often they break I would not bother with this thread.

 

[Konve]

The calculations in the original post assumes that only one enhancer breaks every 1000 shots regardless of how many slots are filled with enhancers. With 5 slots filled you will spend 5 times as many enhancers, and 10 times as many with all 10 slots filled. Assuming a break rate of 1/1000 and 500% markup the actual numbers would be

T5 EP-40 Mercenary Modified+A204 with 5 eco enh has 2.833 DPP.
T5 Justifier Mk.II Improved unamped with 5 eco enh has 2.945 DPP.

T10 EP-40 Mercenary Modified+A204 with 10 eco enh has 2.620DPP.
T10 Justifier Mk.II Improved unamped with 10 eco enh has 2.672 DPP.

Exactly. It's funny how I actually said that but no one seems to have read it.

It depends on how many enhancers break every 1000 shots. Which is the kind of data needed. I have asked so many people but no one actually knows. So I make a thread...

 

[Falagor]

Sadly to actually have a slight chance to even estimate the true eco of ANY enhancers (including eco enhancers) we would need at least average break rate.

And since break rate is different for each item (for everything: each tool, each weapon, etc) i doubt you will get anything specific as an answere here in this thread. Why i am sure of it that it is different - because Charlie posted it few times that they break proportionally to "usefullnes" of an item. Also i have tested accuracy enhancers on Dominax Original Viper (3max damage, very slow, low range weapon) and they were breaking 1/8000 uses (of course i might just have been lucky but i really doubt that it was over the sample i did). I tested only 1 slot though so can't answer if more slots filled - higher break rate but this seems logical.
So obviously accuracy enhancer in big gun will most likely break much more often than even 1 per 1k uses.

So before ANY economy estimation on ANY configuration of item + enhancer type there must be at least 30k uses done with EACH configuration of them to have slight chance of estimating true eco of enhancers.

Of course having some results for different sizes of i.e. weapons we could try and seek for "formula" what "usefullnes" means. For example it can be combination of range, eco and dps (seems reasonable).

Since this seems like really really lots of data colection i really doubt we will be able to find "how enhancers works" (similar to "how armor works"). Without it - i see no point of using them at all unless someone has gut feeling they work for him.

--------

So my advice for you now: if you want to actually check if eco enancers work good for the weapon setup you have: do at least 30k uses test on your actual weapon setup (prefered over 100k of course or more but 30k should be enough to estimate it) and measure it. Remember to always put same amp and always have all slots filled otherwise the test will be not accurate.

Falagor

 

[skunkjunk]

Post anything and people freak out. It'd be nice if half the forum lost their general bad-will attitude and either chilled for a bit or went on a holiday far away from here.



.

yup......

 

[Cail]

You are mis-informed, it is NOT 1 break in 1000 shots. An official representative working with MindArk has already stated that it is random.

~Danimal

It's NOT random, atleast not completely, of course it has some random factor in it...
But, as MA has said, they break in relation to how much improvement they provide, so on different guns the same enhancers break at different rates.

And indeed, i also think these are more suitable for some expensive L weapons, should test and check invidually on every gun though...

Edit:

I can confirm that the consumption rate of enhancers of all types is directly related to the magnitude of the benefit received.

As an example, the consumption rate of damage enhancers attached to weapons is primarily determined by the amount of additional damage created by the attached enhancers.

 

[Fanan]

Nice find Cail! That's why ppl can't generalize the frequency of breakage of an enhancer.

Different items have different break rates for enhancers because the shots per minute and the damage interval is different. Like Bjorn says, it depends of the benefit received.

 

[minim]

Nice find Cail! That's why ppl can't generalize the frequency of breakage of an enhancer.

Different items have different break rates for enhancers because the shots per minute and the damage interval is different. Like Bjorn says, it depends of the benefit received.

To me it also looks like eco is a big factor not only shots/min and dmg.

 

[Konve]

To me it also looks like eco is a big factor not only shots/min and dmg.

Much like tiering cost, then.

 

[Cail]

To me it also looks like eco is a big factor not only shots/min and dmg.

I'd say it's an equal factor, what comes to enhancers.

So basically you get almost fixed amount of improvement for each enhancer (there is still some randomness involved), now someone just has to test those enough on different types of tools and come up with some kind of formula.

 

[Doer]

The only use I can think for these economy enhancers with the actual price would be use them on expensive L weapons or for L weapons when you want to reach high tiers for some reason.


With actual price of these don't think they are suited to any unL weapon.

I assumed that was the case based on how they work. Seems it's generally true from the numbers here.

One of the problems is that dianthus is used in all the truly eco enhancers (accuracy, eco) and it has gone up in price. Whether that was a deliberate change by balancing manager to reduce the eco to be had through enhancers i don't know, but that's the net effect. Wish they'd spread the wealth a bit. So many ores and enmatters are basically tt food...

Anyway, the best chance for increasing UL weapon economy with enhancers is still accu. They're worth approximately 175-200% at break even on eco in my specific case, but again the break rate dependence on weapon used makes every case unique. (n.b. in my case of imk2 the break rate seems to be about 1/950 shots for accu enhancers.)

ETA: My accu enh info in this thread.