Question: The resource cycle - A silly miner's impression

[R4tt3xx]

I would like to simply ask other miners if this is an accurate representation of the cycling of resources inside the Entropia Universe.

It all starts with the pool or tank containing liquid resources, miners probe the ground extracting resources of various types from this tank, if the tank is empty, there are no resources and your probes are sent to the void.

The extracted resources are then either sent back to the pool via the trade terminal if they cannot be sold. The resources that are sold eventually make their way to the crafters who process the resources into other items. During this process, the resources are sent back to the pool.


Is this accurate ?

 

[Me Really Never]

if the resources are empty, for example dianthus or pyrite are at their cap then you just get lyst or oil or other similar "filler" resources instead.

 

[R4tt3xx]

if the resources are empty, for example dianthus or pyrite are at their cap then you just get lyst or oil or other similar "filler" resources instead.

Then mining must be really bad if one does not even get filler resources in an area... I have a problem with that line of reasoning as lyst and oil are still resources that need to be extracted and should be subject to the resource pool.

What mining needs is a byproduct of some kind in order to offset the major loss of probes in a non-resource producing area. There has got to be some sort of carrot.

 

[K_rupT]

NRFs are the filler

 

[R4tt3xx]

NRFs are the filler

I think thats a good assumption yes. Anyway back to the topic...

Does anyone else have anything to say about this ?

What about amps ?

 

[K_rupT]

I think thats a good assumption yes. Anyway back to the topic...

Does anyone else have anything to say about this ?

What about amps ?

Well it is on topic

 

[R4tt3xx]

So amps based on what I have suggested, remove more liquid resources as resource x from the pool, leaving less resources in the pool overall..

Amps would be good (when they work) for miners that just do not have the time to sit mining small claims all day. Obviously amps would be subject to the same issue with probes as if they do not hit anything due to the level of the pool, you are just throwing away peds...

 

[mastermesh]

for the capped resources this is likely a good theory... For the uncapped, or ones that have such a high cap that the cap will never be reached, like lyst, oil, etc. theory goes out the window.

 

[Alina]

REally think you think to much. Got a question for u ? why u mine ? for profit or fun ?

 

[wizz]

REally think you think to much. Got a question for u ? why u mine ? for profit or fun ?

yeah, some people dont like people who THINK about what they do!
Just be a zombie and keep spending!
Right?

 

[R4tt3xx]

yeah, some people dont like people who THINK about what they do!
Just be a zombie and keep spending!
Right?

Im a bit of a zombie when I have the mining sheet open, I know what it's supposed to do, it's just that sometimes I override it's safeguards just to see what happens when I should not be mining. (PS It always ends badly!!)

 

[R4tt3xx]

for the capped resources this is likely a good theory... For the uncapped, or ones that have such a high cap that the cap will never be reached, like lyst, oil, etc. theory goes out the window.

Not necessarily. If those kinds of resources are not subject to a cap, that may be the mining by-product / resources generated by the use of actual probes...

Interesting...... I need to merge my lbml runs with my excel mining sheet

 

[R4tt3xx]

REally think you think to much. Got a question for u ? why u mine ? for profit or fun ?

Having profit at the end of the day, yeee thats a hell of a lot of fun !!!

So both...

 

[Haruto Rat]

The extracted resources are then either sent back to the pool via the trade terminal if they cannot be sold. The resources that are sold eventually make their way to the crafters who process the resources into other items. During this process, the resources are sent back to the pool.

The 'returning to pool' theory has been tested multiple times. People were crafting big stacks of uncommon stuff, and then running back to the field to try looting it again, or had other people in the field for them.

To my knowledge, all these tests failed.

The reason this theory still refuses to die is probably that it allows people to blame 'hoarders' (and kulaks, and wreckers) for everything they don't like.

 

[mastermesh]

The 'returning to pool' theory has been tested multiple times. People were crafting big stacks of uncommon stuff, and then running back to the field to try looting it again, or had other people in the field for them.

To my knowledge, all these tests failed.

The reason this theory still refuses to die is probably that it allows people to blame 'hoarders' (and kulaks, and wreckers) for everything they don't like.

Timing is likely a part of the theory... Does it restack in the loot pool instantly, after an hour, likely not? A day, 3 days, a week, or next server reboot?

 

[Simon Great]

my 2 pecs

 

[R4tt3xx]

Each area does contain certain resources... So one can assume different size tanks in those areas.

Ok I am going to go out on a major, major limb here. If I have to compare a physical real-world setting to this would be a gas station...

It contains an underground tank, with pipes that connect it to each pump. The pumps can only be used after a set amount of time has passed since it was last used, ie a cooldown timer.

Each pipe goes down to a certain depth in the tank depending on how much loot Mindark wishes the particular pump to displace. If the tank is not full enough, the pump just sucks air and produces a NRF.

Does this sound plausible ?

 

[Kerham]

I am not sure about the cap being a tt value term, what with the recent ubers on ignisium and dianthus. I think is a probability to hit a certain resource. This probability is influenced by depth, skills, pure luck and a discrete classification from MA who can qualify respective resource in terms of rarity. So terrudite for instance without MA interference would be much rarer than ignisium since it doesn't live under 500ish according to LBML while ignisium can be found with any finder. While in reality they tend to have pretty much same rarity (excluding anomalies like uberhofs), aprox 10-15tt per 1k dropped.

Then an apparent tt cap can be introduced with, if you want, an affinity of certain resources for tiers of amping, which I believe is a thing. That is, the higher the level of amp, certain resources simply disappear, like amping would reduce itself the probability very close to 0.

I am not sure on the impact of preamped finders with all this, since they require way higher skills than regular finders, but they offer way lower depth comparatively.

In my opinion, if these tiers will grow even more apart in future (but this needs to happen together with crafting), they would offer for higher skilled miners the possibility to split even more between pursuing rarity vs pursuing quantity.

As for NRFs, I have yet to find an area which has no resources whatsoever. I believe oil and lyst are fillers, but are also "legit" components of certain fields. For example, when Shinook and white Amethera were released, in the first few days they only had lyst and oil. Before last miniVU, Cyrene mining got bugged and was giving only lyst and oil. But on the other hand, at Minopolis and (old) Fort Pandora you had lyst since the beginning of mining.

 

[bigdaddy trim]

yeah, some people dont like people who THINK about what they do!
Just be a zombie and keep spending!
Right?

Sometimes when you overthink a problem you can cause more problems for your self. I do ok at mining i dont keep logs or stats. I just keep a eye on AH whats selling and what not. I have LBML map so i know where to mine resources that are need.

 

[R4tt3xx]

Sometimes when you overthink a problem you can cause more problems for your self. I do ok at mining i dont keep logs or stats. I just keep a eye on AH whats selling and what not. I have LBML map so i know where to mine resources that are need.

Perhaps your right...

Lets use the easiest array I can think of.... Max Number of deposits in an area = (server size/2/diameter)^2 = 1386 circles...

Apply circle packing... Link found ... Applying array to known distribution system..... Complete....

New array setup complete....

 

[ZPF]

The 'returning to pool' theory has been tested multiple times. People were crafting big stacks of uncommon stuff, and then running back to the field to try looting it again, or had other people in the field for them.

To my knowledge, all these tests failed.

The reason this theory still refuses to die is probably that it allows people to blame 'hoarders' (and kulaks, and wreckers) for everything they don't like.

Isn't this how we explain the phenomenon of Dunkel only being found ~once a year? What's the alternative?

 

[R4tt3xx]

I think Mindark needs to look at resource distribution within mining. Most miners know when mining is bad and just stop mining. With no peds in the mining system, there is nothing to distribute into the mining loot pool which results in no resources and the cycle continues.

 

[Haruto Rat]

Isn't this how we explain the phenomenon of Dunkel only being found ~once a year? What's the alternative?

I don't know anything about dunkel (have some experience with tridenite though).

I speculate off the assumption that the primary objective of balancing is, well, balancing server load, and not denying someone good stuff or enforcing someone's understanding of fairness, or anything like that.

If so, the system would reward me for finding an undermined server - and my tridenite finds fit that hypothesis (e.g. two on the first day of mining a certain server, one two days later, and nothing after that).

The rarest rewards might as well be placed manually, who knows.

 

[Rocket192]

Generally, yeah this is correct.

MA also manipulates it to prevent EZ profit mining/crafting.

 

[R4tt3xx]

Another tip, that just popped up.

Don't drop probes when there are no globals / hofs on happening ... You get a lot less hits ....

 

[Me Really Never]

Another tip, that just popped up.

Don't drop probes when there are no globals / hofs on happening ... You get a lot less hits ....

thats bullshit again. it would be impossible to mine on next island or toulan if that would be true. on toulan you got maybe 1 global per hour. so basically no mining possible? i get the same hitrate and the exact same return on toulan than anywhere else on mining.

 

[R4tt3xx]

thats bullshit again. it would be impossible to mine on next island or toulan if that would be true. on toulan you got maybe 1 global per hour. so basically no mining possible? i get the same hitrate and the exact same return on toulan than anywhere else on mining.

Cool, just making an observation ..... on Calypso.....

 

[Kerham]

Another tip, that just popped up.

Don't drop probes when there are no globals / hofs on happening ... You get a lot less hits ....

You do realize that there HAVE to be some probes dropped in order for those globals & hof to happen, they are not givens of nature...

 

[R4tt3xx]

You do realize that there HAVE to be some probes dropped in order for those globals & hof to happen, they are not givens of nature...

Aye.... I do.... It merely waits for the tank to fill to a certain level, then allows avatars to take from it... Almost like a valve ....

So you can either be a carebear and drop your peds into the tank, or a ruthless bastard that wants to pull more than they put in.... I don't think the game cares, as long as the balance is maintained.

Well if there is a personal loot pool, I should not be able to pull out more than what I put in, if there is no personal pool, one should be able to pull out from other player's loot pool...

This opens up a whole can of gambling and other such gray area issues. Decay goes to Mindark as a "transaction fee" for participating in mining in the game. The ped value of probes are transferred to a "pool" weather it's individual, server or global, we have no way of knowing.

The distribution system is also unknown, but is most commonly thought to be random...
The system gives and takes in peds based in "waves" or at the very least a timer (This has been present since the days of Project Entropia so it is a known mechanic.)