The VTOL, feature or exploit?

[sky west]

So with all the fuss out there about the vtol, I'd just like to ask why the use of the vtol during mining is no exploit?

I use my vtol to get to places where I would normally not be able to go, let alone dropping a bomb there. And even if I was able to get there, with high agro
& high dmg mob I would have serious trouble reaching the claim and pulling mob away from it. It would take ages with all the revives. With my vtol it's a piece of cake.

So why isn't this considered an exploit?

I understand the unfair advantage aspect of it, but I don't appreciate the fact that MA introduces something that we need to test in order to establish wether or not this is a feature or an exploit.

If MA doesn't feel the need/hasn't got the manpower to PROPERLY test new features, we SHOULD NOT pay for it.

 

[RobBuona]

As far as I know, most miners mine without armor. That being said, if you are unable to get to your claim (and not wearing armor) this isn't added decay, but simply wasted PEDs. MindArk is all for increased decay, but not allowing you to reach your claim by using a VTOL would just be wrong. You'd incur decay from the mobs attacking your VTOL, but as soon as you exit you'd likely be toast. So again, just wrong. Decay tends to cause deposits, but this kind wouldn't.

 

[mike jones]

yes it's a exploit cars/ VTOL are meant for transport not running away from mobs to make mining easier

 

[sky west]

yes it's a exploit cars/ VTOL are meant for transport not running away from mobs to make mining easier

But if that's true, why haven't they made vehicles more vunerable to mobs? There are a ton of options they could have used to even out the advantages of vehicles in regard to mob interaction.

For instance they could have made areas with mobs unaccessable from a vehicle. You can fly over it, land, but not get out. Same for cars, you can drive through it, but not get out.

I know, it would reduce the usage of vehicles. But no exploits with motorised vehicles, just like they (should have) intented.

 

[Argh non Ral]

yes it's a exploit cars/ VTOL are meant for transport not running away from mobs to make mining easier

Uh.. and z brainz is meant for filling your skullz... so it not empty and bugs wont crawl around inside! ... not for using it for thi.. thi.. thinking uh?

 

[XeroX2]

VTOL hunting has been classified as an exploit by the support section. Therefore it is an exploit. VTOL mining has not been classified as an exploit by the support section. That does not mean it isn't one... but it means it is either grayzone or not an exploit. I wanted to fill in a support ticket about this topic but something in the submitting went wrong so it never got delivered from what I know. Well that is not my business anyway. I am sure tons of ppl got a ticket in.
Untill MINDARK says otherwise I will NOT consider VTOL mining as an exploit. All it does from MAs POV is increasing the turnover in amp and finder decay by a shitload (3x normal drop speed i would guess?) so I would assume they are quite happy about it being in place.

EDIT: the thread title question is pretty dumb... ofc the VTOL as such is a feature... otherwise it would have been edited/removed looooong time ago. However the way we use the VTOL is another question and that is what my answer is about.

 

[mike jones]

But if that's true, why haven't they made vehicles more vunerable to mobs? There are a ton of options they could have used to even out the advantages of vehicles in regard to mob interaction.

For instance they could have made areas with mobs unaccessable from a vehicle. You can fly over it, land, but not get out. Same for cars, you can drive through it, but not get out.

I know, it would reduce the usage of vehicles. But no exploits with motorised vehicles, just like they (should have) intented.

how quickly everyone forgets that VTOL did take damage from mobs which made this type of hunting imposable this lead to massive mob trains and a string of support case's so they made it so they don't take damage your idea is a bit lol since then you couldn't drive to a hunting spot or mining spot you would have to tp there and whats the point in that

 

[jod]

if its possible to do it its a feature.

If its a bug MA will remove the possibility.

No grey areas.

 

[Agis]

Look at the points - There is an exploit and there is a feature to spacecrafts , boats etc..

Exploit - Purposely using a VTOL to hunt super uber mobs - impossible or extremely hard to kill gaining an unfair advantage to those people who have spent years upon years to reach a skill level to hunt these mobs (warning to those Rudolf Dragon Stalker & Neverdie Dragon Stalker - not naming names, looks like you guys have been reported by rocktropia staff recently) HOF people. An exploit is only recognised in the EULA as an act of having unfair advantage therefore economically impacting the market or gameplay.

If you mine with VTOL or hunt with VTOL just to save time and get over some heavy dense mob spawns its not against the EULA as your not exploiting the system (economical impact), its just a good reason to have a ship to get those hard to reach spots, none of these acts in this paragraph violate the EULA as they clearly state economical advantage, Hunting or mining in hard to get areas is not an economical advantage, its not unfair advantage either as everyone can do it.

 

[ChairmanEdgewise]

VTOL is a feature


Using it to hunt in order to bug mobs is a exploit. How effing hard can it be to understand?

 

[ChairmanEdgewise]

if its possible to do it its a feature.

If its a bug MA will remove the possibility.

No grey areas.

You really have no idea what a bug is, do you?


If it's possible it is a feature you say?

I will quote what a bug is to you, and maybe you change your mind...

Bug:

A software bug is the common term used to describe an error, flaw, mistake, failure, or fault in a computer program or system that produces an incorrect or unexpected result, or causes it to behave in unintended ways. Most bugs arise from mistakes and errors made by people in either a program's source code or its design, and a few are caused by compilers producing incorrect code. A program that contains a large number of bugs, and/or bugs that seriously interfere with its functionality, is said to be buggy. <----Could be the whole, or most of the game tbh...


A feature in the other hand, is something they have implemented and it works as it should.... VTOL Hunting is NOT a feature.... It is a exploit/bug/way to ban specialkids who have not read EULA



I just love how some people look upon things..."If it is possible to do, it is a feature"


I bet hacking a fucking online bank or any other website for that matter, is a feature then.. Since it is possible to do it?





To OP:

I would consider the VTOL Mining NOT an exploit, but still some sort of bug....

If you sit in the VTOL, You are not allowed to drop a bomb, but ofc if you leave it you are allowed to... This is where the bug appears, once you drop the bomb you can instantly enter the VTOL and keep flying, and if u find anything u will still get the marker a few seconds after your bomb drop... It surely does make mining faster, but since we are not allowed to drop a bomb when in flight, I suppose entering before the finder is done searching is considered a bug.... I am sure in a few months when MA got it out of their ass they will add a timer to entering vehicles, so that we can't leave and reenter that quick... or we can't enter during an item is reloading.



So, a bug I would say but not really an exploit, since there is no advantage of finding better deposits when entering the vtol... in hunting mobs can not hit (that would otherwise oneshot you if they reach you) you and u can regain range between u and the mob using the vtol, that is why it is considered a exploit when hunting.. so they can basically hunt mobs their skills and gear does not allow... thus it is a exploit! Just like trapping was back in the days... that got fixed... just be patient and VTOL will be fixed as well

 

[jod]

snipped

Actually I know exactly what a bug is and what a feature is,do you?

A bug gets fixed/disabled in a timely manner,VTOL's have had this feature for over 4 months.

Bugs get advertised as bugs not improvements,Features get implemented on purpose and advertised as features/improvements.
----------------------------------------------
Content 11.3.0 RELEASE
Entropia Universe 11.3.0 Release Notes
28 Sep 2010

Additional vehicle improvements:
Vehicle Inventory will now be closed at vehicle recalling.
Added range limit to vehicle action Pick Up.
Vehicles will physically move when hit by explosion from, for example, grenade launcher.
Improved explosion effect when a vehicle is destroyed.
Added control information in the vehicles' Item Info.
Creatures don't attack flying vehicles.
----------------------------------------------

Your analogy of hacking a bank is completely ridiculous and has nothing to do with this subject as no one is 'hacking' anything,They have simply used the improved features of the VTOL.

If you use your VTOL to drop into a spawn that you could not otherwise access and quickly jump out and drop your bomb and re-enter your VTOL to avoid dying (as the OP is suggesting) then you are using this very feature you call bug.

Using a 'bug' in any way is exploiting.

There is no grey area.

 

[jod]

Let me be clear though.

This is my opinion and not MA's,It would seem that given what I posted above and MaryJanes' lock for using this feature (if thats what the lock is actually for) that MA can call it an improvement one day and an exploit the next if and when they see fit.

So the best thing for the OP to do is refer to the official announcement made by MA....Goodluck finding that

 

[ChairmanEdgewise]

Ahhh, so when I ask MA about using a VTOL for hunting(or in this case Mining), they will say it is allowed, since it is a feature... yes?



oh wait... no.. they already told me a good while ago it's a bug.

 

[jod]

Ahhh, so when I ask MA about using a VTOL for hunting(or in this case Mining), they will say it is allowed, since it is a feature... yes?



oh wait... no.. they already told me a good while ago it's a bug.

They have already called it an improvement but if you took the time to read my last post you would see that I said...
"It would seem that given what I posted above and MaryJanes' lock for using this feature (if thats what the lock is actually for) that MA can call it an improvement one day and an exploit the next if and when they see fit."

And isn't it nice that they took the time to tell you its a bug because they haven't told anyone else its a bug yet apart from the few people that filed support cases and I dont mean to be rude but your support cases aren't addressed to me,If MA wants me to know its a bug then they will make an effort to tell me themselves.

Should we all be sending in support cases to find out even though they have already called it a vehicle improvement and have known about it for 4months and yet not changed anything?
If so should I send another support case in month or two to see if it is still a bug or if they have changed their mind yet again?
And where does it end?
Should I be double checking everything that I have previously taken as a feature just to be sure my account is safe?

If so I hope MA support is ready for the flood of inquiries from their 1million registered accounts

 

[mastermesh]

And where does it end?
Should I be double checking everything that I have previously taken as a feature just to be sure my account is safe?

If so I hope MA support is ready for the flood of inquiries from their 1million registered accounts

Exactly. It's complete and utter nonsense that something can be classified as a feature one day, and the same exact thing be classified as a bug/exploit the next. Unfortunately, due to the dynamic and random nature of this environment, that is the exact problem we have here for this issue and every darn issue that is, has, or ever will exist in Entropia Universe.

Everything they say at http://www.entropiaplatform.com/entropia-platform/security/ is wrong...

MindArk aims to provide the safest online entertainment environment available. Safety and security is highly prioritized and MindArk has implemented functions on several levels to ensure this. Both Planet Partners and the participants on the planets should always feel safe in their endeavors in Entropia Universe.

It's wrong because the fact that features can become exploits on a whim and vice versa means that we cannot and never will be able to "feel safe" in any endeavors in Entropia Universe. The fact that systems like taming that people invested in can be gone for over a year indicates that this is a highly unsafe online environment. The fact that estates, one of the most expensive assets in game, can function improperly for months, and then later stop working again after they do start working makes this an unsafe environment. None of can or should "feel safe" in any endeavors in Entropia Universe the way that things are currently.

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/setview/features/loadFeature/120/gameID/31/from/features

We are very reluctant to change the stats for any item in the virtual universe, as such measures would bring instability to the ingame market, which is just plain bad. We are a business and our main priority is to have pleased customers for the long haul. Anything else is just plain stupid.

The more they do this sort of junk with all the changes, the more that they will not have pleased customers... so they really got to turn things around ASAP. Anything else is just plain stupid...

Changing the vtol feature of no damage while flying to a bug status is "just plain stupid."

 

[JD RACING]

using votol for mining is just as much a exploit as hunting

i had a guy mining whit vtol on the la40 were the atrox are and he was landing in the middle of the spawn droping bombs whit out getting hit


whit out the vtol he would had no way to do that other than getting decay

the worst part i was getting all the agro from the mob he disturb no decay for him but alot for me

i say put a timer before you can enter the vehicule when click

 

[kira-red]

Changing the vtol feature of no damage while flying to a bug status is "just plain stupid."

the exploit, as I understand it, is that of no damage while not flying.

creatures ignore vehicles in flight becuase is was too easy to end up with a train of them following you even if you did not intend to collect them. also, there have been suggestions that creatures which fly should be able to attack vehicles in flight, but this doesn't seem workable as the pilot has no way to defend themselves.

 

[Shee]

i am flying with my vtol. is this an exploit also?
i mean just take them and do whatever you want to do until there is an official statement or MA changes something. some support statement isn`t considered "official" as we know that one support person says this and another one says that... it happened so many times...
now game on and have fun!

 

[Audrey Cheerful]

There is a difference between using a feature and abusing it.

 

[ChairmanEdgewise]

There is a difference between using a feature and abusing it.

Exactly... Some people are just tio dumb to notice a exploit... I mean, isn't it obvious that vtol hunting, and mining(but only a bug, not rly exploitable) is bugs? Think like this...... Why the FUCK would MA make us possible to Hunt like this? Ppl has been skilling for years to be able to Hunt end mobs.... It is just a matter if time before it is changed imo disable VTOLs for 20 sec after shooting, or talong damage, or agroing mobs.





Offropic; screw auto correction on iPhone

 

[jod]

Exactly... Some people are just tio dumb to notice a exploit... I mean, isn't it obvious that vtol hunting, and mining(but only a bug, not rly exploitable) is bugs? Think like this......

Oh so its exploiting it to save money or hunt mobs you couldn't normally hunt but its not exploiting to save decay or mine in areas you couldn't normally mine?

You cant have your cake and eat it too.
It either is an exploit or it isn't.

Why the FUCK would MA make us possible to Hunt like this? Ppl has been skilling for years to be able to Hunt end mobs....

I ask myself the same question but guess what,Thats exactly what they did and advertised it as an improvement.
Therefore till its changed or announced as an exploit its a feature as that's exactly how it was advertised.

It is just a matter if time before it is changed imo disable VTOLs for 20 sec after shooting, or talong damage, or agroing mobs.

Yeah now that so much stink has been made about it it will because as you surely know by now nothing happens around here unless a riot breaks out on the forum.

You seem to be missing the point of what I'm saying here.
The thing is your opinion-and mine for that matter-mean exactly bugger all.
The only opinion that actually makes a difference is MA's and until they make a change or an official announcement its still not an exploit.

 

[Audrey Cheerful]

From all these threads about the VTOL exploiting I learned one thing: Some people are not intelligent/decent enough to distinguish between right and wrong or use and abuse. The only way EU can be saved from the exploiters is by closing the exploits as soon as possible and punishing the exploiters fairly hard. There is no way MA can rely on all members of the community to do the right thing. Most people here are smart and good but enough are dumb and rotten to cause big problems.

 

[jod]

From all these threads about the VTOL exploiting I learned one thing: Some people are not intelligent/decent enough to distinguish between right and wrong or use and abuse. The only way EU can be saved from the exploiters is by closing the exploits as soon as possible and punishing the exploiters fairly hard. There is no way MA can rely on all members of the community to do the right thing. Most people here are smart and good but enough are dumb and rotten to cause big problems.

Thats certainly true to a degree but for me its not about right and wrong anymore,Its about after 4+years being sick and tired of making excuses and allowances for MA's mistakes.

Once upon a time I would have been right with you calling exploit,dont use it,etc(and I'm still not saying people should use it,people can make their own decisions on that) but it seems the more we make excuses for MA the less effort they put in to getting it right or even correcting the errors they make.

If they want something to be done a certain way then they need to get off their arse and make it happen.