Thread closures

[ruslan]

Here's the thing,

I don't give a damn about people whining, I also don't care about what some might consider as negativity. If you do, don't follow these so called "offensive" threads.
I find em amusing! They create action.

What I don't like is when someone closes threads which I follow.

Kick the thread closure habit and get rid of this stupid rule.


And, yes, this is a threat.

 

[SuperKanjo]

They create action for sure, and those threads have been around for as long as i remember. But it can scare (potential) new players, that is the problem and the reason those threads should be minimized.

 

[Artrat]

And, yes, this is a threat.

O RLY?

In order to make a threat you have to have the credible ability to inflict loss or harm on the threatened, good luck with that.

I'd love to be able to avoid the whining threads, problem is the whiners have started invading ALL the threads. I come here to read about and discuss the game I like, not wade through pages of entitled juvenile tantrums. Worst thing that ever happened to PCF was ER closing down .

 

[ruslan]

Ok, so in order to minimize the potential loss of a yet not existing player, the experience of an existing one must be ground to a halt by forum nazis.

Not only that, but seeing moderators banning themselves for doing the exact same thing. I mean, this just does not sound fair.

 

[Neil Stockton]

I'd love to be able to avoid the whining threads, problem is the whiners have started invading ALL the threads. I come here to read about and discuss the game I like, not wade through pages of entitled juvenile tantrums.

Exactly. Even some of the threads Bertha starts get flooded with whining.

 

[Ludvig|MindArk]

No, instead start to actually enforce the rules we have to stop the trolling, flaming and derailing that has become far too common here. As for whining, it is only destructive (unlike constructive or at least justified critizism and negativity).

Would you also have the mods ignore the handful of people that use the forum only to spread negativity and hate?



EDIT: Remember that you are a guest on this forum. Posting here is a privilege, not a right.

 

[Uvas]

I say, bring the ban hammer down on all nogoodniks!!!

 

[mastermesh]

They create action for sure, and those threads have been around for as long as i remember. But it can scare (potential) new players, that is the problem and the reason those threads should be minimized.

Do you have proof that they scare away anyone? I'd think that the folks taking the time to actually read this sort of stuff would want a better idea of what is going on rather than seeing a bunch of censorship going on. To me, it'd seem that the censorship might scare away the n00bs even more than the long whining threads that show up here and now which might have a post or three in them that have some actual useful info...

 

[Hijacker27]

Ban the trolls and stop locking the threads

 

[wizzszz]

No, instead start to actually enforce the rules we have to stop the trolling, flaming and derailing that has become far too common here. As for whining, it is only destructive (unlike constructive or at least justified critizism and negativity).

Justified and unjustified criticism - the difference is very subjective and depends on the beholder - what you deem unjustified may very well be justified to me.

Would you also have the mods ignore the handful of people that use the forum only to spread negativity and hate?

Again, it depends a lot on who you ask who is here "only to spread negativity" - not everyone is capable of an unbiased view.

EDIT: Remember that you are a guest on this forum. Posting here is a privilege, not a right.

This is basically correct - it is 711 sandbox, hence his rules apply.

But, a forum, any forum, is literally nothing without it's members - the members deliver the content, which is the only reason why people come here - it's clearly a symbiosis, and overmoderation can kill a forum as quickly as unquestioning obedience.


And on a sidenote:
Some of the threads that got deleted were far more entertaining than most of the threads that were 100% abiding to the forum rules, especially when you know enough about EU to not discuss the sweat price anymore...

 

[Ludvig|MindArk]

Justified and unjustified criticism - the difference is very subjective and depends on the beholder - what you deem unjustified may very well be justified to me.

...which is why we have mods to decide what should be considered justified or not.

Again, it depends a lot on who you ask who is here "only to spread negativity" - not everyone is capable of an unbiased view.

Maybe, but sometimes it is very clear... I have even seen people admit they are here for that reason alone. People that hang around here complaining about things after admitting they do not play the game any more can also be sorted into this category.

But, a forum, any forum, is literally nothing without it's members - the members deliver the content, which is the only reason why people come here - it's clearly a symbiosis, and overmoderation can kill a forum as quickly as unquestioning obedience.

Of course there should be no overmoderation, but there has to be a balance. People that are blatantly and repeatedly breaking the rules should be banned. Threads that are only destructive should be removed.

Some of the threads that got deleted were far more entertaining than most of the threads that were 100% abiding to the forum rules, especially when you know enough about EU to not discuss the sweat price anymore...

Again, maybe, but most of the threads that have been closed/deleted have not contributed in any way and has in some cases even been damaging to the overall atmosphere of the forum and/or game.

 

[wizzszz]

...which is why we have mods to decide what should be considered justified or not.

Exactly - they just may not share your opinion.

Maybe, but sometimes it is very clear... I have even seen people admit they are here for that reason alone. People that hang around here complaining about things after admitting they do not play the game any more can also be sorted into this category.

I have met such people, too - it's just... i've seen people labelling others "trolls" with absolutely no other reason than disagreeing with their point of view. I've seen people applying that prejudice where it clearly did not fit. You did that, too.

However, what's "very clear" to you may be seen totally different by me - i think you have too little doubt in your personal perception...

Of course there should be no overmoderation, but there has to be a balance. People that are blatantly and repeatedly breaking the rules should be banned. Threads that are only destructive should be removed.

You write as if you understood my point in the beginning and then you fall back to your old scheme: What's overmoderation depends heavily on ones personal view.

Again, maybe, but most of the threads that have been closed/deleted have not contributed in any way and has in some cases even been damaging to the overall atmosphere of the forum and/or game.

Well "most" sounds like you can prove it, and, on top of that, make everyone share your point of view. A thread contributes when it meets certain criteria - one of them being "entertaining"...

I know, you will disagree and measure threads differently, but i, for one, can take a little smack talk when it's entertaining.

Damaging... that's another thing - what can damage a forum? If a forum changes, the type of audience changes - that's about it. The point is which audience you are targetting - but then again, not everyone fits 100% into one of your categories.

 

[Ludvig|MindArk]

Exactly - they just may not share your opinion.

Obviously, just like they may not share your opinion. They are supposed to be as objective as possible (while still following the rules).

I have met such people, too - it's just... i've seen people labelling others "trolls" with absolutely no other reason than disagreeing with their point of view. I've seen people applying that prejudice where it clearly did not fit. You did that, too.

However, what's "very clear" to you may be seen totally different by me - i think you have too little doubt in your personal perception...

Of course the "very clear" cases are quite rare, and there are many gray zones. Again, this is up to the moderator to decide.

I will also admit to having made judgemental mistakes (I am only human after all), but if I am proven wrong I will accept that I was wrong and apologize. I have however never done it for the sole reason of someone disagreeing with me.

You write as if you understood my point in the beginning and then you fall back to your old scheme: What's overmoderation depends heavily on ones personal view.

That balance is once again up to the moderators, but they still have to follow and enforce the rules. That is their purpose.

 

[wizzszz]

Obviously, just like they may not share your opinion. They are supposed to be as objective as possible (while still following the rules).

They may as well not share my point of view, of course.
Your point is...?

Of course the "very clear" cases are quite rare, and there are many gray zones. Again, this is up to the moderator to decide.

Well, the problem is, mods are human after all, too - it is just not easy to tell a mod that his judgement was wrong in a thread that has been locked... on a forum that doesn't allow criticising mods...

I will also admit to having made judgemental mistakes (I am only human after all), but if I am proven wrong I will accept that I was wrong and apologize. I have however never done it for the sole reason of someone disagreeing with me.

Maybe not for this reason alone, but you did it for personal dislikes.

That balance is once again up to the moderators, but they still have to follow and enforce the rules. That is their purpose.

I am a fan of rules, they make your life much easier (you don't have to judge yourself what is still ok and what is not) - enforcing the rules is absolutely ok, too - the difficulty is just to find a set of fair rules, and while a rule may be 100% accurate in most cases, there will be exceptions... and the rules can't cover them all.



However, running a forum is not a charity thing (most people tend to forget that), they are, and that's top priority, subject to financial interests. And this is where the problem starts:
A thread may not only be ok, netiquette-wise, yes even needed, as i.e. MA does indeed NEED the feedback (including negative statements, even you will agree here), and it may still be locked because it runs contrary to the owners financial interests (i.e. in discouraging new players, or devaluating the ingame assets of the forum staff).

 

[Ludvig|MindArk]

They may as well not share my point of view, of course.
Your point is...?

My point is simply that they will always be wrong... from a certain point of view.

Well, the problem is, mods are human after all, too - it is just not easy to tell a mod that his judgement was wrong in a thread that has been locked... on a forum that doesn't allow criticising mods...

Well that can be a problem, yes, and not one with a simply sollution. If we allowed anyone to critizise any mod decision at any time on the forum itself, the threads for that would take up half the forum after a while.

We are able to PM the mod, another mod or 711 about it though, which may clear up the issue in at least some of the cases.

Maybe not for this reason alone, but you did it for personal dislikes.

Maybe years ago, but never now.

 

[safara]

Any particular thread closure in mind Ruslan?

 

[mastermesh]

However, running a forum is not a charity thing (most people tend to forget that), they are, and that's top priority, subject to financial interests.

which leads back to the longstanding issue regarding forum moderation as it relates to Entropia Universe. Mindark does not own these forums. Planet Calypso almost did for a few months, but they backed out of that deal... so here this 'unofficial' forum sits, along with entropiaforum, another 'unofficial' forum, and Mindark and Planet Calypso staff just keep posting away in them as if they are official... which is actually pretty crazy if you think about it since IP addresses for participants are getting thrown out here all the time in theory... and at least once in the past one of these two forums had some virus that it was spreading (even if it was not intentional and it was tied to advertising network issues related to the advertising network that was being utilized, etc.). Mindark could just put up their own forums, which is actually something they can/should do as a part of their new advertising campaign, but they choose not to do so... so not much you can do if what exists here gets overmoderated to death like some of it's predecessors.

 

[GeorgeSkywalker]

This thread didn't get locked despite a threat! hmmm impressive

 

[~CHOPPER~]

Nothing to see here folks, move along

 

[711]

Here's the thing,

I don't give a damn about people whining, I also don't care about what some might consider as negativity. If you do, don't follow these so called "offensive" threads.
I find em amusing! They create action.

What I don't like is when someone closes threads which I follow.

Kick the thread closure habit and get rid of this stupid rule.


And, yes, this is a threat.

Excessive whining, complaining and negativity may not bother you personally, but it certainly bothers many of the members here, and I have received numerous requests to do something about these issues.

Threads will be closed whenever they are in violation of the forum rules (such as this one) or whenever the forum staff decides closing a thread is necessary to ensure the mission of PCF is upheld.

Ok, so in order to minimize the potential loss of a yet not existing player, the experience of an existing one must be ground to a halt by forum nazis.

Not only that, but seeing moderators banning themselves for doing the exact same thing. I mean, this just does not sound fair.

JohnCapital did not ban himself, he was temp banned by me.

If you have any further comments or questions about the administration of PCF, contact me via private message, as threads such as this are not permitted by the forum rules.