Wave Based loot theory

[tamlin]

I don't know the swedish law enough ...

Then at least see what Google translate says about the law I linked to (that's straight from the Swedish governments website).

but I think that a business is allowed to give gifts to their customers based on their sole arbitrary decisions

You consider a global, HoF or even an ATH a gift from MA? Then I can understand how you don't see it as gambling.

May I ask, do you by any chance have a large amount of money tied up in EU, maybe even own MA shares (last I saw someone tried to sell them at $0.20 each, on a website, and failed)?

which would explain why they can out of the blue decide that a chirpy young will have a monstrous loot multiplier and be the source of an uber loot.

Read that law I linked to. Understand it. Let it sink in. Meditate on the wording, meaning and intention.

Welcome back to comment on the issue once you have done that.

 

[Magyar_Republic]

Looks like this thread has been hijacked. The subject is wave based loot theories, not the definition of gambling and Swedish law.

 

[-Archangel-]

Which is completely irrelevant, as it's gambling that is the issue. Does EU provide gaming within the financial system it is, with the gaming+potentially_gambling front-end it presents its customers? Yes, most certainly. Are the 3 endorsed activities gambling? Many think so (note I didn't say most, just "many").

If "many" think it is gambling, and that would be against the law governing it, would it then not be prudent to have the agency governing such issues to make a ruling based on the most possible information it could gather that we all could verify? I think such a ruling, with elaboration, is important, else it seems there will always be opinions that are polar opposites.

Not irrelevant

What many people are complaining is that the company doesn't give fair instructions on how to play the game so that a player doesn't have to gamble in its activities...

It's not even the matter that they think it is gambling, MA didn't try to provide an explanation why it isn't.

Is that allowed under swedish law ? I don't know.

The regulatory agency when given the instruction by MA on how to play the game will of course not find such issue when they try to audit the game.





And what do you mean with

with the gaming+potentially_gambling front-end it presents its customers? Yes, most certainly

if you mean that people play dumb (even if it isn't their fault that they don't know how to do better) and get losses

isn't MA allowed to promote the game by increasing the returns of those who follow what MA thinks is the way that the game is meant to be played ?


(I don't think it is a healthy business model to piss off so many potential customers,
that doesn't mean that I think that they are promoting gambling).

 

[-Archangel-]

Looks like this thread has been hijacked. The subject is wave based loot theories, not the definition of gambling and Swedish law.

If players don't know/ don't have rules/instructions to get "fair" returns (fair to be determine by MA, in relation to MA's expectable profits per investement made)

what will be the difference between them being gaming but not gambling and gambling ?

 

[-Archangel-]

You consider a global, HoF or even an ATH a gift from MA?

No.

Then I can understand how you don't see it as gambling.

If it was rack back that wouldn't mean that it wasn't gambling in place somewhere, I don't consider it rack back.

May I ask, do you by any chance have a large amount of money tied up in EU, maybe even own MA shares (last I saw someone tried to sell them at $0.20 each, on a website, and failed)?

No.
I wouldn't buy it either, nor do I own CLD.
( the actual game is quite boring, the fun part is understand how it works and finding new bugs).

It does not apply to machines that do not yield a profit or pay out only in the form of free games. Föreskrifter om sådant automatspel finns i lagen (1982:636) om anordnande av visst automatspel. Regulations on such machines in the Act (1982:636) on the organization of certain gaming machines.

I will try to find 1982:632 to see if it matters.

 

[JohnCapital]

Looks like this thread has been hijacked. The subject is wave based loot theories, not the definition of gambling and Swedish law.

If players don't know/ don't have rules/instructions to get "fair" returns (fair to be determine by MA, in relation to MA's expectable profits per investement made)

what will be the difference between them being gaming but not gambling and gambling ?

I'm going to have to agree with the OP. This thread is about his wave theory, not Swedish gaming laws. That's another subject for another thread.

 

[-Archangel-]

I'm going to have to agree with the OP. This thread is about his wave theory, not Swedish gaming laws. That's another subject for another thread.

I agree with you.

But randomness usually will get a thread in that direction.


In my posts I tried to show that small ammounts of uncontrolable factors and previously unknown may if further information is obtain due to the natural course of actions result in not totally random results depending on different choices.

Which is a very important issue when studing wave patterns.

 

[JohnCapital]

I agree with you.

But randomness usually will get a thread in that direction.


In my posts I tried to show that small ammounts of uncontrolable factors and previously unknown may if further information is obtain due to the natural course of actions result in not totally random results depending on different choices.

Which is a very important issue when studing wave patterns.

Based on that argument, no thread should be kept on-topic.

Wave loot theory. The other stuff belongs in other threads.

 

[Uvas]

Looks like this thread has been hijacked. The subject is wave based loot theories, not the definition of gambling and Swedish law.

{removed}

Is there any way, if this theory proves correct, that it can be of help to the players of the game?

I mean, by making their peds last longer, or occasionally, (cough, cough) profit?

 

[-Archangel-]

Think about it. Each player has 1 value. Time the wave started. Otherwise they are the same. Each mob/activity has 2 values. Wavelenght and Amplitude. The planet has the final value. Where is the zero point?

I think this theory is pretty sound. Any takers?

It has to be more complicated than that otherwise it would be easilly exploitable (I know for sure that many have tried, their failure only predicts that the system can't be that simple, nor that it isn't an important variable since, in my readings of it, the overall data points in that way).


Just an example on how things get complicated:
the loot that a mob will give isn't just based on its HP.
Different weapon set up will show significative differences.

 

[wizzszz]

{deleted, didn't read all posts before replying}

 

[wizzszz]

Perhaps you missed my "stay on topic" msg above.

Of course i did - why not just split the topic?

Now i wasted over an hour on two posts that simply vanished...

 

[-Archangel-]

{removed}

Is there any way, if this theory proves correct, that it can be of help to the players of the game?

I mean, by making their peds last longer, or occasionally, (cough, cough) profit?

Yes, to some that bother with more than just point-click, but it won't be simple
so maybe not a what a casual player would consider helpful

Hint:the second part is answered with-> if you play above your "rank" even this won't help you
("rank" of course what I mean with this is most likely not what you think)

 

[Uvas]

Yes, to some that bother with more than just point-click, but it won't be simple
so maybe not a what a casual player would consider helpful

Hint:the second part is answered with-> if you play above your "rank" even this won't help you
("rank" of course what I mean with this is most likely not what you think)

Well, I am looking forward to learning more.

 

[-Archangel-]

Well, I am looking forward to learning more.

Would it be helpful to a casual player that for him to start geting more than 90% returns that it was required for him to have knowledge of all the activities and outputs of it that he did in the last hour of the game and how they were related to what should be considered good.


Is it hard to understand why mining is the profession that there are so many hardcore players geting a decent return, it isn't just MU

Those player really care to change their behavious in order to obtain better results and use all available knowledge to achieve this.


(The easiest and probably least expensive way to test some aspects of this theory is with mining, but on others aspects there is no easy way and on some mining is not even the least expensive).

 

[tamlin]

Is there any way, if this theory proves correct, that it can be of help to the players of the game?

I mean, by making their peds last longer, or occasionally, (cough, cough) profit?

No, not a chance.

Once upon a time, MA-noobs (meaning that in the worst possible way) had "designed" and implemented the mining system in EU.

A person gambling the system and with slightly more analytical skills than MA's "design" skills properly black-box reverse-engineered the mining loot system, to the point he could effectively predict multipliers and always make a tt-profit.

Once MA got wind of this, the system was promptly further obfuscated.

While I'm a bit fuzzy on this last part, I suspect MA also banned that poor person for life, for doing what MA themselves do all the time.

 

[TheOneOmega]

While I'm a bit fuzzy on this last part, I suspect MA also banned that poor person for life, for doing what MA themselves do all the time.

This may have been the player's version of the story, but I doubt it properly represents what actually happened. If the player was banned, I would be willing to bet it was for breaking the EULA or TOS in some way, not for the act of figuring out the loot system itself.

 

[silentkill234]

You know someone was banned for finding an ancient wormhole chip that would take centuries to find? (This was before the mindforce VU). He gave players any planet they wanted for free. Then boom, banned the day after. I know this guy but i'm not going to continue.

 

[R4tt3xx]

Yawn this theory is well known and was the first system that I noticed waaaaaaay back in the beta when proper mining veins existed at set times of the day.

This also matches Legion's timer, obviously.

Below is a simple example of how this COULD work.

H = high loot
A = average loot
L = low loot

AH
LA 0 to 15 minutes

LA
AH 15 to 30 minutes

AL
HA 30 to 45 minutes

HA
AL 45 to 60 minutes

Depending on the time the chances of getting better loot changes. If you follow the change of an individual sector, it does indeed resemble a sine wave

 

[Fifth]

Once upon a time, MA-noobs (meaning that in the worst possible way) had "designed" and implemented the mining system in EU.

A person gambling the system and with slightly more analytical skills than MA's "design" skills properly black-box reverse-engineered the mining loot system, to the point he could effectively predict multipliers and always make a tt-profit.

Once MA got wind of this, the system was promptly further obfuscated.

While I'm a bit fuzzy on this last part, I suspect MA also banned that poor person for life, for doing what MA themselves do all the time.

There's lots of similar examples, some ppl even had a pretty epic "battle of the minds" with MA. They figured out how to beat the system, MA improved it (= shut it down, hehe), the guy figured out how their improved system works, and it was modified again...
At least those people i know were never banned for it, i think MA was simply using them like some high-profile testers...



Disclaimer: There's a difference between using an exploit and figuring out how things work, if you not sure what the difference is, don't try it at home!

 

[R4tt3xx]

There's lots of similar examples, some ppl even had a pretty epic "battle of the minds" with MA. They figured out how to beat the system, MA improved it (= shut it down, hehe), the guy figured out how their improved system works, and it was modified again...
At least those people i know were never banned for it, i think MA was simply using them like some high-profile testers...



Disclaimer: There's a difference between using an exploit and figuring out how things work, if you not sure what the difference is, don't try it at home!

Mindark will never ban such "beta testers" as like you said, they are being used as guinea pigs.

 

[Kenney]

Very interesting stuff here. You could spend hours trying to make all of this stuff work for real. Thanks

 

[Serica]

Very interesting stuff here. You could spend hours trying to make all of this stuff work for real. Thanks

/mod note/

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