Suggestion: We need better protections against luring

[Katie Chalmers]

Due to several recent discussions I think we need to put pressure on Mindark developers to implement some changes to better protect its player base, especially newer players that may not be aware of what’s happening.

I am in no way advocating for any removal of PVP mechanics. I think PVP is perfectly fine between willing participants who know the risks and know how to mitigate them.

Here are some of my suggestions:
1. Two party consent required to be added to a guest list of a vehicle. This request should come off screen via the notification panel, and clearly stating the risks of entering a foreign vehicle.
2. Two party consent for a Quad/Sleipnir to enter space. Risks to be clearly displayed.
2a. If a player has lootable items on them, a second confirmation screen can be displayed, highlighting the offending items, and asking the user if they would like to proceed. Only then can the vehicle enter space.
3. Have a physical barrier on the lootable border . This could work similar to the wilderness ditch in RuneScape. Displaying a warning and confirmation screen before being allowed to enter. There could be an option to disable the warning and move freely if a player so desires, but it would be enabled by default.
3a. The same could be applied in the space lootable borders but I’m not sure how this would be implemented.
4. The action to force exit a vehicle should be on a default hotkey and taught to the player during the tutorial mission. The current F solution doesn’t work. There should probably be a warning that pops up if the vehicle is in flight/space where accidentally pressing it would be disastrous.
5. Entering a vehicle could also be a seperate key that isn’t F. Maybe this could be the same hotkey as above.
6. Placing a vehicle on top of a player should be impossible.

For the sake of the games future, Mindark needs to address the issue and protect its players real life monetary value that they have in their accounts. I want a response!

Comment below your own bullshit too if you want. Just please keep it objective. No botting/anti botting discussion or player flaming.

 

[Proplayer2323]

Don't get me wrong they are all great ideas but they wouldn't need to change if ppl didn't macro the f key , change the auto fire from f to b or some other key that's not used to get in vehicles etc so it doesn't interfere with anything and it's solved . Macro users can still hunt and be safe. Cause let's be real all these changes are meant to help macro users feel safe

 

[Katie Chalmers]

Don't get me wrong they are all great ideas but they wouldn't need to change if ppl didn't macro the f key , change the auto fire from f to b or some other key that's not used to get in vehicles etc so it doesn't interfere with anything and it's solved . Macro users can still hunt and be safe. Cause let's be real all these changes are meant to help macro users feel safe

If the interact button rebinds to B then B will now enter/exit a vehicle and the same thing will happen. We need to remove the dual functionality of the interact button.

 

[Xanato Xan Kaso]

Hey Katie

Due to several recent discussions I think we need to put pressure on Mindark developers to implement some changes to better protect its player base, especially newer players that may not be aware of what’s happening.

I am in no way advocating for any removal of PVP mechanics. I think PVP is perfectly fine between willing participants who know the risks and know how to mitigate them.

Here are some of my suggestions:
1. Two party consent required to be added to a guest list of a vehicle. This request should come off screen via the notification panel, and clearly stating the risks of entering a foreign vehicle.
2. Two party consent for a Quad/Sleipnir to enter space. Risks to be clearly displayed.
2a. If a player has lootable items on them, a second confirmation screen can be displayed, highlighting the offending items, and asking the user if they would like to proceed. Only then can the vehicle enter space.
3. Have a physical barrier on the lootable border . This could work similar to the wilderness ditch in RuneScape. Displaying a warning and confirmation screen before being allowed to enter. There could be an option to disable the warning and move freely if a player so desires, but it would be enabled by default.
3a. The same could be applied in the space lootable borders but I’m not sure how this would be implemented.
4. The action to force exit a vehicle should be on a default hotkey and taught to the player during the tutorial mission. The current F solution doesn’t work. There should probably be a warning that pops up if the vehicle is in flight/space where accidentally pressing it would be disastrous.
5. Entering a vehicle could also be a seperate key that isn’t F. Maybe this could be the same hotkey as above.
6. Placing a vehicle on top of a player should be impossible.

For the sake of the games future, Mindark needs to address the issue and protect its players real life monetary value that they have in their accounts. I want a response!

Comment below your own bullshit too if you want. Just please keep it objective. No botting/anti botting discussion or player flaming.

am not sure of what issue you are trying to resolve with the F button changes, but I do like some of the PvP warning ideas.

 

[Katie Chalmers]

Hey Katie

am not sure of what issue you are trying to resolve with the F button changes, but I do like some of the PvP warning ideas.

The issue is the most pressed button in game is also a vessel for an attempted kidnapping by a well timed vehicle spawn.
Anyway that one isn’t my highest advocation, the two critical suggestions are 1 and 2. But I’m just brainstorming ideas

 

[Proplayer2323]

If the interact button rebinds to B then B will now enter/exit a vehicle and the same thing will happen. We need to remove the dual functionality of the interact button.

Interact button will remain the same , just the key to use auto-fire will change so they will be 2 different things

 

[atomicstorm]

The issue from today and every other day revolves around putting people in guest lists without their consent. It is the game exploit that is a copy of a previous one of years past that pirates used to exploit.

Solve that and this goes away. Nothing more needs to be done. It isn't complicated.

 

[Xanato Xan Kaso]

I agree that luring is wrong and should be punished. But the general hatred and mob with pitchfork like attitudes for people that do pvp is wrong. Its a game mechanic, there are warnings, there are ways to avoid them. You should not be punishing a player for simply playing the game. If they were camping a person and griefing them, then yeah that isnt right.

Im in space one day and i killed some one when I had just gotten my pathfinder, I was having fun playing the game. Then I got harassed by the player I killed and then by multiple other people that pmed me to yell atm e for pvping. I didnt even loot anything, and if I had I would have returned it, I was just trying to play the game and have fun. Yeah it sucks to be on the other end of pvp, but that is part of the game, they could have spent 7 ped to avoid the pvp zone but they decided to be cheap and fly, that is on them not me.

 

[Hijacker27]

I agree that luring is wrong and should be punished. But the general hatred and mob with pitchfork like attitudes for people that do pvp is wrong. Its a game mechanic, there are warnings, there are ways to avoid them. You should not be punishing a player for simply playing the game. If they were camping a person and griefing them, then yeah that isnt right.

Im in space one day and i killed some one when I had just gotten my pathfinder, I was having fun playing the game. Then I got harassed by the player I killed and then by multiple other people that pmed me to yell atm e for pvping. I didnt even loot anything, and if I had I would have returned it, I was just trying to play the game and have fun. Yeah it sucks to be on the other end of pvp, but that is part of the game, they could have spent 7 ped to avoid the pvp zone but they decided to be cheap and fly, that is on them not me.

The point of the thread has nothing to do with people getting shot in pvp, it is to do with people getting picked up with quads against their own will and being flown into lootable pvp in space and then killed and looted.

 

[Ivo Jahrumble]

I like it as it is. Keeps botters in check and at their keyboard

It only became a problem when botters got targeted by the strategy, not new players. Diguising it as a problem for new players is at least hypocritical.

The F key works as intended. And it is the user that joins the guest list and the quad ride by pressing the F key. If you are at the keyboard OP admitted in other thread you have to be braindead to get kidnapped.

If you change the F key for the specifics of the join ride purpose to protect the AFK botters, we might as well remove it entirely cause we open a pandora box of requests that anyone can demand from MA. Everyone will be entitled to create a problem and demand a solution from MA. Even if that problem exists only in your head...

Since Op does not want to discuss the real problem that lead to this thread and we are in a demanding mood, I might as well demand answers to when will botting issue be adressed... Cause this one would not exist without the other ya know.

 

[Katie Chalmers]

I like it as it is. Keeps botters in check and at their keyboard

It only became a problem when botters got targeted by the strategy, not new players. Diguising it as a problem for new players is at least hypocritical.

The F key works as intended. And it is the user that joins the guest list and the quad ride by pressing the F key. If you are at the keyboard OP admitted in other thread you have to be braindead to get kidnapped.

If you change the F key for the specifics of the join ride purpose to protect the AFK botters, we might as well remove it entirely cause we open a pandora box of requests that anyone can demand from MA. Everyone will be entitled to create a problem and demand a solution from MA. Even if that problem exists only in your head...

Since Op does not want to discuss the real problem that lead to this thread and we are in a demanding mood, I might as well demand answers to when will botting issue be adressed... Cause this one would not exist without the other ya know.

This isn’t necessarily a botting issue, botters are just at a greater risk because they aren’t present.
Players can and are being added to a guest list without their consent, it’s not as you say entirely in the hands of the player.
All you need is to be inattentive for a few seconds to be caught, and if you panic or don’t think to right click exit or log off, you can be in trouble. Sure it’s unlikely but the risk is there. And it’s been happening.

 

[addz]

Due to several recent discussions I think we need to put pressure on Mindark developers to implement some changes to better protect its player base, especially newer players that may not be aware of what’s happening.

I am in no way advocating for any removal of PVP mechanics. I think PVP is perfectly fine between willing participants who know the risks and know how to mitigate them.

Here are some of my suggestions:
1. Two party consent required to be added to a guest list of a vehicle. This request should come off screen via the notification panel, and clearly stating the risks of entering a foreign vehicle.
2. Two party consent for a Quad/Sleipnir to enter space. Risks to be clearly displayed.
2a. If a player has lootable items on them, a second confirmation screen can be displayed, highlighting the offending items, and asking the user if they would like to proceed. Only then can the vehicle enter space.
3. Have a physical barrier on the lootable border . This could work similar to the wilderness ditch in RuneScape. Displaying a warning and confirmation screen before being allowed to enter. There could be an option to disable the warning and move freely if a player so desires, but it would be enabled by default.
3a. The same could be applied in the space lootable borders but I’m not sure how this would be implemented.
4. The action to force exit a vehicle should be on a default hotkey and taught to the player during the tutorial mission. The current F solution doesn’t work. There should probably be a warning that pops up if the vehicle is in flight/space where accidentally pressing it would be disastrous.
5. Entering a vehicle could also be a seperate key that isn’t F. Maybe this could be the same hotkey as above.
6. Placing a vehicle on top of a player should be impossible.

For the sake of the games future, Mindark needs to address the issue and protect its players real life monetary value that they have in their accounts. I want a response!

Comment below your own bullshit too if you want. Just please keep it objective. No botting/anti botting discussion or player flaming.

I mean if you're just sitting at your computer actually playing the game you aren't going to have this problem.

Hey look a that, I solved it.

 

[Ivo Jahrumble]

This isn’t necessarily a botting issue, botters are just at a greater risk because they aren’t present.
Players can and are being added to a guest list without their consent, it’s not as you say entirely in the hands of the player.
All you need is to be inattentive for a few seconds to be caught, and if you panic or don’t think to right click exit or log off, you can be in trouble. Sure it’s unlikely but the risk is there. And it’s been happening.

There is a risk in anything we do in life. I can very well live with that risk same way as I cross the road...

If this bothers you so much let me tell you something you can teach to all those panicking chickenheads you know.

Press L in game. Go to Action Library - Control. Add the "Exist seat" button a place on the screen where you can use it in case of panic. There ya go. You can jump out of a vehicle anytime you need

Don´t get me wrong. Im all for helping newplayers make it in game. I just don´t like what you are trying to do here

 

[Katie Chalmers]

I mean if you're just sitting at your computer actually playing the game you aren't going to have this problem.

Hey look a that, I solved it.

There have been actual attentive players that have had this happen to them.
This isn’t a botting issue, it’s a consent issue.

There is a risk in anything we do in life. I can very well live with that risk same way as I cross the road...

If this bothers you so much let me tell you something you can teach to all those panicking chickenheads you know.

Press L in game. Go to Action Library - Control. Add the "Exist seat" button a place on the screen where you can use it in case of panic. There ya go. You can jump out of a vehicle anytime you need

Don´t get me wrong. Im all for helping newplayers make it in game. I just don´t like what you are trying to do here

I don’t know what’s not to like, these changes won’t negatively affect normal gameplay in any way, it will only make it harder to accidentally enter lootable areas. Seems like a net win to me. Except for the people abusing these mechanics.

 

[MeiGDLing]

The only time this is a problem is if people are going into new player areas and doing it to newbs who have no clue what's going on, but in that regard it's just another form of trust scam similar to telling them you are going to show them a new planet and then booting and looting just easier to pull off. Seasoned players who say they were present at the keyboard but got into a ship and allowed themselves to get taken to space and looted are almost 100% lying, me and every player I know who actually plays the game as it was intended have never run into such a problem nor do I worry about it happening to me.

 

[Ivo Jahrumble]

The way I see it, the way it is is much better.

- It adds a new dimension to the game.
- It tames botting outside instances since MA admittedly cannot control the grow of botters in game.
- There is no reason to change something that is working as intended. Fix EP launchers bug instead with this time so we can have some fun huh

"I don’t know what’s not to like, these changes won’t negatively affect normal gameplay in any way," - ermm if I was running a bot farm in entropia and I knew that developers have given me confirmation that botting is absolutely okay Id be going nuts...

You are usually one of the first persons to find exploits in our brainstorming threads you can surely understand that is the message that would be sent to the playerbase and the community with ths change dont ya?

 

[Katie Chalmers]

The way I see it, the way it is is much better.

- It adds a new dimension to the game.
- It tames botting outside instances since MA admittedly cannot control the grow of botters in game.
- There is no reason to change something that is working as intended. Fix EP launchers bug instead with this time so we can have some fun huh

"I don’t know what’s not to like, these changes won’t negatively affect normal gameplay in any way," - ermm if I was running a bot farm in entropia and I knew that developers have given me confirmation that botting is absolutely okay Id be going nuts...

You are usually one of the first persons to find exploits in our brainstorming threads you can surely understand that is the message that would be sent to the playerbase and the community with ths change dont ya?

You’re right it would inadvertently help keep botters safe. But anti botting measures are a different topic at hand and can be brought up (as they Are already repeatedly) in other threads. I’m happy to support some of your measures to reduce botting if they aren’t intrusive and still allow for casual play. Perhaps mindark can implement both our ideas. These two things don’t have to be mutually exclusive. Just because I suggested this doesn’t make me pro bot.

 

[Ivo Jahrumble]

Best idea I can think of is.

Keep F for interact with not equipped items.

Use tool button to shoot the gun instead of F for all.

Remove lock to target funcionality so we need to aim while shooting. Again fix Eps launchers so we dont get bored if its punys we killin.

To avoid that only a few users are able to create macros and bots since it becomes a tad more complicated to do one without target lock: Any avatar that goes above the threshhold of human possible aim accuracy % over a certain amount of shots gets flagged and auto report for MA to analyze the strange behaviour.

But that would require a game security team...

 

[Evey]

I know there's a lot of passion around the topic I’m really happy these discussions take place. Along with the recent events it will prompt a change in the META sooner.
Just like Mayhem changed the meta of farming low categories and giving skill for free, current meta will go away because it’s not good for the game long term, in my opinion. And it will be the easy fix, to remove it, just like pyrite was moved because the high number of exploit reports, easy fix was to remove pyrite from lootable where there's no need to exploit.

I strongly believe Entropia will survive without macro. The game thrived before there was even lock target and we had to manually aim each shot and each missed shot was costing us PED. There are a lot of players that say they will quit without macro. Some will, but most will continue no doubt even if they push heavy on the blackmail towards MA pedal.

Probably for the short term this META of macroing did well for the game, just like loot 1.0, but just like loot 1.0, it will ruin it eventually and the game has a great survivability ability so eventually will change the meta because it does great harm to the game long term, especially for the player retention. If we have spawns for low & medium level players with bots using high tier BP130, like we had few months ago, turning itself into a turret being fully afk for many hours - there’s little to no interest to play the game, to advance.
For highly active players, botting is very bad because it removes the most important edge they had - being active. Now everyone can be "active".

Consent is a must, anywhere, but, in Entropia Universe, interact function is consent. Asking for extra layers of consent is not bad, but right now it baffles me because it seems like a grotesque charade of shielding botting and because botting started to be a lot more obvious, now it gets thrown at everyone, everywhere, no matter if they do it or not.

I mean if you're just sitting at your computer actually playing the game you aren't going to have this problem.

Hey look a that, I solved it.

There have been actual attentive players that have had this happen to them.
This isn’t a botting issue, it’s a consent issue.


I don’t know what’s not to like, these changes won’t negatively affect normal gameplay in any way, it will only make it harder to accidentally enter lootable areas. Seems like a net win to me. Except for the people abusing these mechanics.

Again, sitting at your computer controlling your avatar makes it 100% impossible to accidentally enter lootable.
The player that went t into PVP3 chasing someone's mob, while on stream, was auto consenting for hours, he also saw the two messages indicating approaching a lootable area so there is no way.


Tricking new players to rob them is extremely bad and it's called scamming. No amount of layers of consent will prevent that if people don't act responsible with their valuables. More information on how to prevent the common scams is highly needed.
Let's hope UE5 WILL fix everything

 

[Deleted member 69849]

I know there's a lot of passion around the topic I’m really happy these discussions take place. Along with the recent events it will prompt a change in the META sooner.
Just like Mayhem changed the meta of farming low categories and giving skill for free, current meta will go away because it’s not good for the game long term, in my opinion. And it will be the easy fix, to remove it, just like pyrite was moved because the high number of exploit reports, easy fix was to remove pyrite from lootable where there's no need to exploit.

I strongly believe Entropia will survive without macro. The game thrived before there was even lock target and we had to manually aim each shot and each missed shot was costing us PED. There are a lot of players that say they will quit without macro. Some will, but most will continue no doubt even if they push heavy on the blackmail towards MA pedal.

Probably for the short term this META of macroing did well for the game, just like loot 1.0, but just like loot 1.0, it will ruin it eventually and the game has a great survivability ability so eventually will change the meta because it does great harm to the game long term, especially for the player retention. If we have spawns for low & medium level players with bots using high tier BP130, like we had few months ago, turning itself into a turret being fully afk for many hours - there’s little to no interest to play the game, to advance.
For highly active players, botting is very bad because it removes the most important edge they had - being active. Now everyone can be "active".

Consent is a must, anywhere, but, in Entropia Universe, interact function is consent. Asking for extra layers of consent is not bad, but right now it baffles me because it seems like a grotesque charade of shielding botting and because botting started to be a lot more obvious, now it gets thrown at everyone, everywhere, no matter if they do it or not.




Again, sitting at your computer controlling your avatar makes it 100% impossible to accidentally enter lootable.
The player that went t into PVP3 chasing someone's mob, while on stream, was auto consenting for hours, he also saw the two messages indicating approaching a lootable area so there is no way.


Tricking new players to rob them is extremely bad and it's called scamming. No amount of layers of consent will prevent that if people don't act responsible with their valuables. More information on how to prevent the common scams is highly needed.
Let's hope UE5 WILL fix everything

thank you for this so much!!! its refreshing to see a player at your level have that stance for once and not defending macroing...

we do NOT need more protections against luring, there are plenty as it is. we need bug fixes and content

 

[TheOneOmega]

These seem like reasonable options. I would modify the first one to allow players to remove themselves from vehicle guest lists as well. Otherwise we end up with a dynamic similar to the friend list before it was bidirectional. At that time, there was good reason to be extremely selective about accepting friend requests, because it meant years down the road someone could have an advantage over you in PVP.

The other thing we need to discuss is the question of when to stop adding more protections. When we have two confirmation boxes in place, will we think we need a third? Maybe we do need a third, but what then about a fourth? Will we still be talking about how players disregard all four confirmation boxes and are being morally wronged in some way by experiencing some loss as a result of their sloppiness? At some point we will need to accept that players are allowed to make mistakes, learn from them, and become better players over time as a result, rather than branding these mistakes as some sort of human rights catastrophe. Yes, I can imagine the logical possibility of some hypothetical brand new player who has deposited their entire life savings into Entropia and can't reasonably treat such an event as a learning opportunity, but if this player exists, they are an outlier of an outlier, and the ultimate mistake would not be going into space unprepared, but failing to take the time to learn anything about the game before depositing.

 

[atomicstorm]

I mean if you're just sitting at your computer actually playing the game you aren't going to have this problem.

Hey look a that, I solved it.

As we have just seen (which is the 3rd case of it that I know of) that was not the case.

 

[MikeH]

I think there is few problems
1. People can add you in your guestlist without your consent
2. You cannot remove yourself from their guestlist
3. People are spawning ship over other players (This part is against a ToS many refer to as interfering with gameplay)

First 2 problems need to be solved by MA.
3rd problem is the people that may be some have good intention to stop botting , some may have intention of monetary gain , but who the f gave you the right to decide who is botting or not ? Some big socs supporting these type of actions and piracy is sad.


Edit:ship not shop

 

[ProActive Mango]

IF you play the game as it was intended, (without botting) this would never happen. Botters are ruining the game for everyone else.

Get some karma poor botters...

 

[cbretado1]

botters compliaining that regular players found a way around their auto hot key scripts to their own personal gain is why i quit this game. I don't see longevity in a game where botters are allowed to be botters so openly. and you never realize it till you actually wanna quit, but any GOOD weapon/Ring that costs over 6K is really hard to sell. so what is even the point of leveling up and getting better gear when at the end of the day, if you actually try to get rid of it, you cant unless you sell at a significant net loss.

 

[thisEUplayer]

if you actually try to get rid of it, you cant unless you sell at a significant net loss.

im pretty sure some reputable high-ticket resellers would disagree on that one

 

[PreyNaika]

botters compliaining that regular players found a way around their auto hot key scripts to their own personal gain is why i quit this game. I don't see longevity in a game where botters are allowed to be botters so openly. and you never realize it till you actually wanna quit, but any GOOD weapon/Ring that costs over 6K is really hard to sell. so what is even the point of leveling up and getting better gear when at the end of the day, if you actually try to get rid of it, you cant unless you sell at a significant net loss.

You wuld have quit anyways, dont blame that on bots or a game that got a stable economy for 20 years. Ur own fault if you feel forced to sell stuff for low amounts, its also your own fault if you buy something for way above your Budget.

 

[cbretado1]

You wuld have quit anyways, dont blame that on bots or a game that got a stable economy for 20 years. Ur own fault if you feel forced to sell stuff for low amounts, its also your own fault if you buy something for way above your Budget.

I was always big on the Calypso deeds and arkadia deeds. After their appreciation along with their deed payouts over the year, I think i still ended up in the green in terms of cashing out. so no hard feelings. I'ts just that other than Those deeds, nothing in the game seemed appealing, or worth spending real life hours on that aren't botted. It's mind numbing to spend hours pressing "F" even if I'm watching anime on the side. Old school runescape does it 10x better.