We need some changes !!!

[kel]

Sweating is a method MA allows players to in-game fund their play. However, one has to look at their ability to sweat as a temporary position. A normal player would, by the time they reach the 'attuned' level, get the gist of the game and more or less realize whether they would like to continue or not.
However, like anything in life there is abuse where opportunity arises. The problem is that MA made sweat an intrical part or game play ( various mind chips.. ) As it seems to stand right now, there are not enough players to maintain a reasonable supply to keep prices at a reasonable level. The result is the current obscene price for ME.
One could, just by sweating make enough to fund their play to no end. This does not help MA, hence the sweating cap.
So far it makes sense to me. What is also obvious is that the current situation is not only detrimental to players, but also to MA who are not getting the full benefit of decay from their mind items.
What is needed is a solution. And as seen in the previous posts there are a number of suggestions. Allow me to post mine:
Initial sweating cap should stay as is. This would only affect new players giving them an intoduction to PE without having to spend money.
How does one get more sweat into the system then, you ask? The answer is simple: deposit.
By making a deposit, a certain number of points/levels ( whatever ) would be concessed to the player. Then this player would be able to continue sweating those additional levels, in addition to having the funds.
Well, I'm mega super uber player - i hunt spiders for breakfast/lunch and they make my dinner ( my bitches ) . It is obvious that sweating is below me.
Well, mr Uber, that is fine also, because MA could make those points tradeable. Meaning if I deposit to fund my hunting but don't feel like sweating, I could sell my deposit's worth of sweating points to someone who would not mind putting them to good use.
The result would be that more VS would be available driving the prices down enough to cause the common use of mind items. I used to be self sufficient with ME until enlightment ( funny, I don't feel any different )
What do you think MA - would this scratch your itch? It sure would mine -

 

[Fusion]

One could, just by sweating make enough to fund their play to no end. This does not help MA, hence the sweating cap.

I don't think so ... if there would not be a sweating cap, everyone could still sweat ... it would kinda get rid of the sweat market like it is today and maybe raise the prices of FN due to increased MF usage.

Any people not using MF themselves would still be able to make money - in some way yes, to no end - but if everyone would be able to sweat they could just make a minimal ammount out of it ... still enough for complete noobs to get a Jester, an Axe, some sort of starting equipment though I guess ... plus it would create some sort of job opportunity, since the busy hunter/miner/whatever could hire some other people to do the sweating for him, maybe his disciples or something, and pay them a little something for their work and the sweat that they're not using themselves yet because they can't afford any FN.

 

[Vedder]

Reversed skill effect

How about reversing the skills effect on the sweating, and removing the sweat cap?
So that the better your skills are, the harder (slower?) sweat gathering would become. The decrease in effectivity should of course be very slow, but I think it would result in more ppl ending up as addicted depositors like us. (Whan an evil thought... But that must be MA's goal)

My point is that MA doesn't want players who sweat forever, because they are really playing for peds paid by the depositors, but MA want a way to let new players taste the game and a shot of becomming addicted depositors.
This means that MA in in a dilemma: Minimizing/removing the sweat period minimizes/removes the money 'drain' on depositors, but making the sweat period longer increases the no. of new players ending up as depositors.

After the new skill system was introduced, new players could reach the sweat cap in a few days, which is far too short a period to make good in-game friend and become addicted.

So...by removing the sweat cap and reversing the effectivity, MA can let ppl sweat longer without increasing the tax on depositors. I think this would in the end result in more depositors.

 

[Azrael]

I've seen some good suggestions here...thanks for those that are constructive, even if you dont agree with the right way...errr...I mean my way

I've been thinking that those that actually use mind force and build their skills...should be the ones able to increase sweats per pull...instead of hitting a cap. After all..sweating is a MF skill is it not? why do I lose an ability that I'm increasining my skills in? Shouldnt I (with 300+ concentration) be able to yank a few more bottles of sweat from a snab than a noob with minimal skills?

I would still need to combine it with FN, and noobs could still sweat for a small profit (especially for the higher skilled MF users that dont feel like sweating, they could hire it done).

Oh well...just thinking out loud here.

Az

 

[Vedder]

There are 2 concerns in this discussion:
1: What makes the PE economy work
2: What behaviour is 'believable'

And I agree very much with you Azrael, that it's totally backwards to lose the sweat ability, because you become better at something. I'm sure MA could have come up with a better explanation, if they had put a little efford into it.

Anyway I still think it's good for the economical concern that we are not allowed to continously keep increasing the amount of sweat we gain, as our skills improve.

 

[Fusion]

Anyway I still think it's good for the economical concern that we are not allowed to continously keep increasing the amount of sweat we gain, as our skills improve.

I agree you shouldn't get more sweat as your sweating skills increase ... for example to 3-4k or so in Sweat Gatherer - maybe a reverse effect wouldn't be too bad either, meaning it will take you more and more tries to get some. Even though sweating globals would be kinda cool

Anyway, by removing the sweating cap alltogether what would happen (like I sort of explained before) is that basically a Product would be turned into a Service. Since everyone would be able to sweat it would still be viable for noobs to do it since they've got nothing better to do anyway when they're not depositing. It means they could still sell the Sweat, as they don't have any Nexus anyway (well, except they buy some) ... but they definately won't teleport around or something.

Ok, everyone could sweat but well, ... it takes time to do so. You could still pay the noob, yes even hire a couple of them, to do the sweating for you.

Yes, this would affect the economy, but in a positive way I think. Of course people would be willing to pay less for a Service like this than a Product - and yes, I know sweat is not the final Product, .. well, it's a sub-product needed for the final result, Mind Essence. Anyway, I think removing the sweating cap wouldn't at all make the price of sweat go down to it's tt-value (nothing) but still maintain a reasonable market value for it and even create some job opportunities - example:

Disciple: I'm out of money.
Mentor: I need some sweat to go along with the Nexus I just mined, but I want to go hunting with someone right now. I'll pay you 1 ped for every 100 you get me.

now the conversation could continue like this:

Disciple: Ok, that's great I'll go get you some. *runs off to sweat*
Mentor: Thanks, let me know when you're fed up with it. *teleports somewhere*

or like this:

Disciple: I want 2 ped for every 100.
Mentor: I'll rather go get some myself then.


Again, that's just an example to illustrate my point


/EDIT - And yes, I like the idea of people teleporting all over the place, wormholes and stuff like that, it's very convinient - and there's still decay to the chips and first of all you need them. After all MindArk said Mind Force is going to be the future, and I think it definately won't with sweat prices like that

 

[Morg]

Saying it is bad for the economy is just plain silly. Noone controlls the economy other than MA (MA could make ME free and it wouldnt effect the economy, unless they allowed it to). If/when MA wants ME (and sweat) to be cheaper they will do just the opposite of what they did when they caused it to increase.
If you'll notice, "the cost" of doing most everything has increased over the last few months. Though there are more, two of my personal favorites that have been contributing serious ped$ to the cause is empty fapping and the current condition of crafting success. (I counted 18 empty faps while I was hunting Allo's today, it would of been 19 but one finally caught up to me after I revived)
Now that the bottom line is attractive enough to of gained the needed investors to insure the future and stability of the game, maybe with the coming of the new VU they may funnel a little back to those who have carried the weight of this...the players.

...one major thing I would like to see changed is the current ability to list items from the terminal onto auction. Some may say that if a noob is stupid enough to buy a TT shirt or Blueprint or whatever off auction then they deserve to be ripped off. After watching a couple TT blueprints being bought at tt+50,000%, I decided to cause these "resellers" to lose a lot of peds by listing the same ones they do at 1ped. Since they list theirs at 3-6ped openers they no longer get bids anymore and lose all their listing fees. Though I lose 1pec on each one I list (2 per week) I have cost one particular "reseller" 34ped (about to be 41ped by end of week) in wasted listing fees. Even though MA is making a good amount of peds from listing fees, I would like to see the ability to list terminal items stopped. Ummm we're suppose to help new people, not exploit them, right?