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Question: When can i start using ul weapons

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The Lizard King

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The Lizard King
When can i start using ul weapons.

I know it is not eco to use a ul weapon to early. They are maxed at lvl 100.

But if i use a P5 for my day to day hunting and need to buy new ones all the time i feel that at some point it will be more eco to use a ul HG whit equal dmg/sec.

Is there any info on when to start hunting good eco whit them?

Im just looking for a ballpark figure. is it lvl 25, lvl 50, lvl 75 or do i have to wait untill maxed for a good eco to take place.

The reason for asking is that my depos allways gets eaten up at the auction geting new (L) weapons, the hunting runns allmost allways give the ammo and decay back. so im figuring that my depos could last longer as soon as i can take the (L) guns out of the calculation.
 
in my opinion..at least lvl 70 hit and dmg close
 
I would say if you can wait long enought then lvl 65-70 as a minimum.

Some would say even lvl 80
 
i would say lvl 75. Tho i would go for a UL SIB gun! unfortunately i can`t afford that..... ;(
So i am in the same situation, P5A(L) MU =loss... even IF i get loot with MU
 
You will be able to use UL guns in 4-5 years...

But they will be useless by then :D

> you need a great amount of laser (or blp) weaponry technology together with a huge amount of anatomy to crack up your minimum damage (and other skills).

From experience it is not the missed shots that make you loose bad with UL (without SIB) weapons, it is the low average damage that is a real pain in the ***.
 
Well, as others said already, there is no point in using an UL weapon at level lower than 65-70. But there is an exception - imk2, which has extremely high economy. I started using imk2 since lvl 42 in hit/dmg and I can't say I'm doing bad.. Now I am at lvl 57 hit and lvl 56 dmg.

Stick to (L) or SIB UL weapons.
 
I only use non-L weapons, because I have since 2004.
If you hunt regen mobs, then eco doesnt matter much. what good is an m1a if the mob regens faster then you can say legostarwarslightsaberdeathmatch

I use my karma killer instead, which i dont have the level for, but can kill more economically now. Eco drowned when the new regen mobs appeared. Its dps now, and ofcourse there are L-guns with better dps then my karma/a105.. but then I still choose the karma.
For me, low decay on a gun combined with high dps is the ideal setup. I can repair my karma for 5 peds and will shoot a hell of a lot more then any comparable L-gun. Most L-guns are full tt if you buy them.. If i want to buy a full tt compareable L-gun then my monthly deposit is already gone, and i have nothing left to get ammo..
And sure, I loose.. but don't you?
 
at 10k HG you will be ~70 hg hit same for laser to ranged dmg

i just started using HG am at lvl 31 or so im using a imp ep21 and im doing pretty good... switching between that and a p4a/p5a or other L gun i can get my hands on
 
Hehe the eternal strugle Ul w L i was fearing this, alot of wait untill lvl 65-80, and now go for UL workes fine for me.

I found a ul p5 some days ago on auction waaay to expensive. old ul HGs are expensive to, but whit in a reach for me.

I think i will have to wait, but as i said the P5 gets expensive in the long run i have allmost payed for a old HG in markup for all my P5s.

And the higher sib weapons i can use is also expensive i pick one up now and then for some fancy hunting but i could never afford to use the bigger (L) ones like the P5.

Thanks for the advice guys.
 
what mobs do you usualy hunt?

and what lvl laser pistol are you?
 
When can I start using UL weapons?

"When you've shown that you can be responsible with it, Young man.."

Common thinking is to wait til around lvl 65 it seems.

I got a FreanD Delta at around lvl35 HG, and now I'm around lvl44... The eco is horrible, the hitrate apalling, but I do love it. Wouldn't recommend it though.

I'm using Apis and CB21's far more though. Past the SIB on em, but 10/10 rocks.
 
you can start using them whenever you will want... it will just be lil bit more expensive :)

Im going to buy an adj-97 for tagging and carabine like fighting and will use HG for the main fight... i will see how it will goes but i think that when you are not regulary using it ( it means as main weapon ) its ok to sometimes have fun :)
 
At lvl 75 HA i could use ul properly. And after lvl 80 it went back to the worse instead lol. But yeah, 75 was the magic number for me. But the ammount of time/money it will take you to get there, things might change alot in the (L) department in the coming years. I gave up at lvl 82 myself. Too much money involved skill wise for me at that point. :silly2:
 
Yes, this is one of those "to be or not to be" questions.
My answer; When ever you want to :)

I personally don't see any difference in hit rates between maxed SIB and those UL guns, i still miss 20-50% of the shots, no matter what i use.
Just borrowed an EP-45 from a soc mate to try out some UL gun for a change, it was just FUN using it so, i'll rather go with fun than not-so-fun-but-may-save-some-pecs :)
 
The Lizard King said:
When can i start using ul weapons.
Click to expand...
Whenever you like. In fact the sooner you start, the more MA and the playerbase at large will love you!

But if i use a P5 for my day to day hunting and need to buy new ones all the time i feel that at some point it will be more eco to use a ul HG whit equal dmg/sec.
Click to expand...
If your skills are too low, using an UL gun with the same dmg/sec FOR YOUR SKILLS will mean using a gun that has much higher dmg/sec when maxed, with the correspondig ammo usage and decay. Very uneco, in other words.

Is there any info on when to start hunting good eco whit them?
Click to expand...
EntroPedia.info is your friend. So is EntropiaTools.com

Im just looking for a ballpark figure. is it lvl 25, lvl 50, lvl 75 or do i have to wait untill maxed for a good eco to take place.
Click to expand...
That greatly depends on the eco of the weapon itself. It also depends on a whole range of other factors, including but not limited to your Evader skill level, range of the weapon, dmg/sec, type of mob, etc.

The reason for asking is that my depos allways gets eaten up at the auction geting new (L) weapons, the hunting runns allmost allways give the ammo and decay back. so im figuring that my depos could last longer as soon as i can take the (L) guns out of the calculation.
Click to expand...
Overall, using (L) guns at low level is simply more eco. So if a large upfront investment feels like a painful payment, set aside portions of that amount after each hunt, similar in size to what you would pay in repair for a non-(L) gun (+ markup of course). This way you save up for the next gun, and you also get a more realistic feel for what the (L) weapon really costs. As it is now, you don't feel like you pay for the decay of the (L) gun, until it's all broke. But you pay for it one way or the other. :D
 
I play quite a lot, and am currently Lvl 43 Swordsman. I got to Lvl 40 at the end of May, and I can see it will take about a year from there to get just to Lvl 50.

So unless you want to invest a large amount of money, reaching the crossover point between L and UL is completely unrealistic.

But I've largely used UL Axes 2x0 and Kat Dets all the way up, so I've no doubt spent a lot more than I would have done with L weapons. But I can repair the Dets 3 times a day without scrambling through the auction, and I don't have to find 1500 PED in one go. For melee hunters there aren't the quantity of L weapons available.
 
I myself used MK2 more or less all the way from lvl 5 to 30 and i can honsestly say, i have never had that good results with korss 400, p5 or any other (L) gun.. :scratch2: (and it was a slow crawling towards lvl 30 back then so i hunted like that for over a year and lost maybe 5-10k ped's in grand total).. while i was hunting argos with p5/korss 400 some months later that's what i lost every month.. don't go blind on numbers is my advice.
Im back to unlimited guns now and im not sure it's giving me better return but it for sure aint worse either.
I mean ofc, if ur using a maddox4 at lvl 10 blp pistoleer than u simply shouldn't be able to break even. But there are several people out there who has constantly been using super-crap-eco guns and are still on the + side with the help of all the frequent hof's some people obviously are destined to get.
 
I was thinking about the same thing myself: what if I start hunting with UL weapons? And so I started, but after a while I came to the conclusion it's not right... to much money to loose. I still use UL every now and then, while waiting to find the right L gun or decent price; every time I do it's a pain to see how much I loose.

Bottom line is to get an UL weapon of your choice (you can always sell it back, or borrow it from someone) and go test it yourself for a while. If you're happy... keep going, or else go back to UL.
 
stick to SIB blood. you only want to start switching to "normal" weaps when the markup you (over)pay on the (L) becomes greater than what you would lose hunting (uneco) using normal weapons. that is extremely hard to gauge though.

dbelinfante said:
That greatly depends on the eco of the weapon itself. It also depends on a whole range of other factors, including but not limited to your Evader skill level, range of the weapon, dmg/sec, type of mob, etc.
Click to expand...

could you elaborate on how evader skill depends on shooting eco please?

i assume you refer to being hit a lot and then having to fap a lot so you shoot more due to mob regenning more - thats the only way i see evader affecting dmg dealing anyway, but i could be wrong.
 
You said with a L weapon, that I assume you are maxed on, you manage to get the ammo+decay back but you loose markup payed on decay on weapon.

With an UL weapon close in stats with the L weapon, on which you are not even close to max it, let's assume you are using it only at ~20% of it's potential(due to lack of skills), you still use decay and ammo in the same amount as if the weapon would work at 100%. If the dmg/hit ratio dealt would be 30% lower that means on average your loot would be ~20% lower then with the L maxed weapon.

You don't pay for markup on weapon anymore but you get ~20% less loot on average with the same amount of ped spent.

I know many ppl argue here that they see no difference in miss rate on UL weapons vs the L ones but at least there is a clear difference in dmg on similar class weapons.

Even if we don't consider the hit ratio of L vs UL let's make a dumb example on dmg to see where the ~20% less efficiency on UL weapons come from.

If a maxed weapon does 30-60 dmg for a cost of 10 pec/pec and a similar weapon UL does 12-60 dmg for the same 10 pec/shot then on average you pay 10 pec for 45 dmg on L maxed weapon and 10 pec/shot for 36 dmg for UL weapon which means a difference of 20% vs the L weapon.

Those 10 pec per shot is made mostly from tt ammo and only a small part is made from decay on gun on which you pay decay.

If you consider that the 20% less loot is less then the markup you pay for the L weapon then go for UL weapons.

Does this answer your question?:scratch2:

Sitram
 
andyzammy said:
could you elaborate on how evader skill depends on shooting eco please?
Click to expand...
If you are a lousy Evader, you will get hit more (leading to armor- and fap decay, and extra ammo consumption). This might lead you to use range as much as possible, hence influence your choice in weapon. An uneco rifle might conceivably be a better choice than an eco pistol (if the differnence is not too great).
 
sitram said:
You don't pay for markup on weapon anymore but you get ~20% less loot on average with the same amount of ped spent.

Even if we don't consider the hit ratio of L vs UL let's make a dumb example on dmg to see where the ~20% less efficiency on UL weapons come from.

If a maxed weapon does 30-60 dmg for a cost of 10 pec/pec and a similar weapon UL does 12-60 dmg for the same 10 pec/shot then on average you pay 10 pec for 45 dmg on L maxed weapon and 10 pec/shot for 36 dmg for UL weapon which means a difference of 20% vs the L weapon.

If you consider that the 20% less loot is less then the markup you pay for the L weapon then go for UL weapons.

Does this answer your question?:scratch2:

Sitram
Click to expand...


Yes a good answer to my dumb question.

Now its just to dicide if i will do good or bad whit those 20% less.
20% looks like allot though.
 
dbelinfante said:
If you are a lousy Evader, you will get hit more (leading to armor- and fap decay, and extra ammo consumption). This might lead you to use range as much as possible, hence influence your choice in weapon. An uneco rifle might conceivably be a better choice than an eco pistol (if the differnence is not too great).
Click to expand...

yeah i thought so. i knew u meant evader affects the overall cost to kill a mob but i also thought u were getting at that evader affects dmg/pec of the weapon itself... my fault, half asleep @ work >.,<
 
Ok I didn't bother reading 3 pages of replies, so this has probably already been said and I don't know it..... It really depends on what gun you want to use. Imk2 is so incredibly eco that I would start using it at level 40 hit and (dmg). Modified Mercenary I'd start using around level 60 hit and dmg, along with Imp 2870. Karma Killer though, I would wait until at least level 70 to start using.
 
Gluepot said:
Ok I didn't bother reading 3 pages of replies, so this has probably already been said and I don't know it..... It really depends on what gun you want to use. Imk2 is so incredibly eco that I would start using it at level 40 hit and (dmg). Modified Mercenary I'd start using around level 60 hit and dmg, along with Imp 2870. Karma Killer though, I would wait until at least level 70 to start using.
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If i had an MM i'd start shooting with it from the first second, would reach lvl 60 quite fast that way :p
 
Semai says| ...

well that's the other thing, you might skill up faster if you don't have the skills to use the UL gun yet ;)
 
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