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Suliman

Suliman

Dominant
Joined
Jan 15, 2008
Posts
459
Location
Bajen Land
I think its wrong to blaim MA for the prices on stuff.. actually its up to us to keep the market ingame... its up to us as players to creat our own economy, MA just deliver the Stuff and we set the price on them... We are the one to blaim... I haven´t been in the game for that long to know how it was in the past but dang god dammit equipment is expensive in this game if u wanna andvance from the breer series... No what i mean it is cheap to be a noob but expensive if u wanna go futher..

Why is the market so sky high? Like a Mod Fap cost me 1 year irl work to buy... Shadow cost the same around i think... when we are more skilled ppl we who started to play the game for around 6 month ago what will we have?

And for sure i will not work 2 years irl to buy me a uber gear? or will i loot it? LOL hell no i will....

So now when did the market go where it is now? Ubers on EF? When did a Mod Fap cost 1k and why is it cost 200k now? Resellers? Never looted again? what do u all think why the game is so expensive atm to buy a decent gear? nah not MOD fap.. thats just an example... but others stuff like guns and so on... Our economy is wicked wrong i think:S


Would a good way to remove the Startbid in auction to +0 and increase the days? To actually see how wanted a stuff is? cos thats the actually thing to see there value.. how wanted is the thing... not cos Tzepue have a stuff and nobody have bought it for a few month he raise the price a few K and hopefullysomeone will buy it and next guy will raise the stuff a few K more next time he sell..


Write what u think about our ingame economy? is it right as it is? what could make the economy more right and what have become wrong/right at is atm?

//Suliman
 
Well i agree that the economy is totally fubared, but i do think it's partially MA's fault but it's not much they can do about it. Ie the mod faps and such should never have existed from the beginning. The L economy stuff should have been there from the start though, but the L stuff is a way for MA to try and fix it also i think.
 
actually i just made the MOD fap as an example,,, could really thake any +5-100k part but i know that the Mod fap cost around 1k in the old days thats why i had that in mind..

// Suliman
 
Suliman said:
MA just deliver the Stuff and we set the price on them...
Click to expand...

The shipment from MA is a little late, so now the exisisting products are priced through the damn roof.

Even though players are the ones paying crazy prices, its already evident that the demand is there, theres just simply not enough supply to easy the inflation...

The old solution was if more ppl hunted more stuff dropped but they have changed how that works....why is that hmmm, I wonder.
 
I don't agree with the threadstarter that MA is not to blame. First of all, they shouldn't have made such ubergear like modfaps that mess up the balance. But that's not all. What causes the fixation of prices is the match between supply and demand. And it's stupid to say that MA can't influence the supply curve. They COULD (I don't say that they should) let rare armors drop more often.

The problem is that it's a problem that can't really be fixed anymore. If Shadow armor would suddenly drop like pixie armor, a lot of the people who spent thousands of dollars on their armor, would feel ripped off. I still think they could go a little bit in this direction however, so the supply and demand match stay around the same level. So when more players join, some more parts should drop.

I think it's very naive to say its because of the players, or because of the resellers. Prices in a non-monopoly economy like this, are set by natural rules. Only MA can help out, by increasing the supply, and they are actually doing this at his very moment, by giving us limited uber gear, like Hermes armor.

The limited items are in my opionion, what will enable the mid-classed players to acquire gear that matches up to the uber gear.

Valy
 
Supply and demand... if there is one item and ten players trying to buy it, price tends to rise... also, some people pay alot to have nice toys :D the ones that can't pay that mutch will have to use something else.

Ultimately, an item sell for tt+x% because someone thought it was worth to pay +x% for it (it isn't MA, resellers or anyone else that makes that... it is the buyer).

Since this is a game, you would expect to be able to reach to the highest level possible and use the best items (like all or most games around), but since this is a RCE and has this virtual universe feeling that actualy doesn't happen (unless you have the PEDs to back it).

This is a strategy MA decided to take (or at least I think they did) a few years ago, so players wont stay for one or two years and go away after they reached the top and got bored for some reason.

I think MA wants to keep EU playable for most people so they start making a few changes, that is, you can't buy a gun for tt+x that is very rare and needs good/high skills to be used, but you can buy a gun for tt+y% that is more common, best to your skill level and still very efective (but keep in mind, this second gun has a drawback, it wont stay in perfect working condition forever, and you will endup losing the y%, so in the long run that first gun could be better for you). But they seam to need to make a few more changes since the y% on many items seams way too high (because they are too uncommon or hard to manufacture).

"Write what u think about our ingame economy? is it right as it is? what could make the economy more right and what have become wrong/right at is atm?"

I think our ingame economy is a bit hard on players that want to move into better gear, but it seams to be working still :D
Don't think it is wrong as it is, but could be better. But MA needs to be careful, since EU has few things to do (my opinion, but I think this can be improved with dinamic game story and those nice events that soc's make). But playing to get to a higher level and get better gear wont work for everybody in the long run, specialy if people realise they can't actualy get some of the skills and gear they see out there.

Well, just realised I been writing for a while now :D am loosing my line of thought so I'll stop here (hope I said something interesting since I actualy can't remember what I wrote in the beginning :D I'll gess I'll need to read it now :D)
 
The economy on some items is really screwed up now. A few points:

1. A) Ridiculous rampant inflation on uber items because they basically don't drop anymore (okay, they drop, but so infrequently that they might as well NOT drop); Adj V1, Adj Stark 97, Imp MK2, Imp FF8K, Mod FAP, Mod Merc, etc. are good examples.

1. B) MA is probably afraid of too many people cashing out, and having to pony up some big bucks, due to 1. A), if they allow more to drop. But that's a Catch-22, because the less that drop, the more ridiculous the inflation becomes.

Solution: Allow more to drop, though not as infrequently as now, but as frequently as they did in the past, but in line with the player population. Example: If 1 Adj Stark 97 dropped in the past for every 500 avatars in a 1-week period, then 100 should drop during the same period if the game has 50,000 avatars. Eventually the price of that rifle will stabilize to something we can consider "normal".

2. A) Again, similar to the uber items' reduced drop-rate, are the "good" items; examples being Camo Arms, ML-35, ML-45, almost all armors (Shadow, Angel, Eon, etc.), MK4 & MKV, V1, etc.). There's really no excuse for the ridiculous prices on these items other than the "practically-no-longer-drop" situation. These are all items that have max TT values around 100 PED or less. Why can't more of these drop in loots instead of 3K animal oil?

2. B) Like the example in 1. MA is afraid of too much cashing out if they allow these items to drop again. However, this is only a real problem if they allow them to drop at too low a frequency. If they dropped at the same frequency-per-population as before, the prices would stabilize and return back to Earth from the Heavens.

Solution: Allow more to drop. There's absolutely no reason for items like a 50 PED MK4 or Angel harness to have become so rare as to drive the prices into the Heavens. I'm not saying have them drop so often that the market becomes saturated, but have enough drop, from non-uber-only mobs, so that non-uber-only avatars can have a little more fun playing this game.

3. A) Loots are just plain dull and boring. Everyone has been saying this for years now. I had a loot of 384 PED from Atrax many years ago that was a helluva lot more fun and exciting than Stormer's recent Falxangius ATH (though not worth as much), with multiple guns, armor parts, an amp, skins, jaw and PEDs in it. Since "good" item drops are so incredibly rare now, it's just plain sad to receive a global with nothing of any value in the loot window.

3. B) If anything, boring loots with little to no markup DEPRESS the economy. I'm sure Stormer was thrilled to get thousands of dollars' worth of oils, but what do you think he did with it? Sell it in auction? I doubt it, I'd probably have TT'd the whole damn thing. Not much point in trying to sell all that oil for 102%, is there? Same goes for extractors. 95% of them have bad enough markup to make it not even worth the time to auction them.

Solution: Put more items in loots that have a markup. Markup items is what STIMULATES economy, trade, auctions. Items with almost no markup mostly get dumped in TT. Exciting loots = more people hunting. I remember when the miners and crafters complained because they never got the really big uber-loots, well now it's the other way 'round, it seems.
 
What ive seen in if i look markup on some stuff... Decade (the game has been around in 5 years?) the price was +500 and now the same item is +5-100k? what did that drastical change in markup?

Did it rised slowly ower time or was it a time MA did improvment on stuff they rised in price? i have talked to a before uber guy who said that Shadow was almoust TT and Angel was bad decay in the old days? Why are they so attractive now when they used to be bad armours?

Why did MA improved the Angel/Ghost? what have changed in gear from the old days when Skalman was a sweater and got 20ped for 1k sweat.. Write what u tink and what u feel about it....

// Suliman
 
What's changed from before, and why prices have skyrocketed? I answered that in my previous post.
 
ZeMag said:
Ultimately, an item sell for tt+x% because someone thought it was worth to pay +x% for it (it isn't MA, resellers or anyone else that makes that... it is the buyer)
Click to expand...

Yea but is it only 1 buyer who wants it? and the player who whants it really bad and see auction every month see reseller stuff (markup decade:3k) so i hasen´t been sold in 1 year the start bid is 20k? why? ecomomy is based on what ppl sell and buy... not for how long they haven´t been sold.. so this stuff is compared to DA VINCI... his work haven´t been sold for awile... but who as a mid level irl worker wanna pay for a DAVINCI armour? IN A GAME? A COMPUTER GAME? so is it so that the game by there resellers and not looted stuff is worth as a DAVINCI painting... go on and bid on it... for sure even if i one day will have better skills then skalman and neomaven i would´t put in that money to have the armour required to beat them whith... i would like to have a new appartment and a new car....!!!!

I wanna trade a DOA SH to a Volvo S80 T5.. anyone intressed? pr a dodge Viper.... now u see that is something wrong about it... cos there is it where it gonna end... ah ofc if not everyone in the game quit and do soething real with there money... btw no name but i talked to a guy who have deposited over 400k SEK in 3 years ... i made 200k SEK a year... for a computer game?

//Suliman
 
How to reduce the number of reseller whores in EU? Reduce inflation. How to reduce inflation? Increase drop frequency of "demand" items in loots. What would happen to the reseller whores if DAR 9300's started dropping again at the same frequency as before? Well, there'd be more than a few resellers in some dire straits, financially. Wouldn't THAT be great to see? :laugh:
 
It takes a number of things to complete the chain. First it`s low supply. Then sellers/resellers. And at the end of the chain the buyers that make things how they are.
 
Thorn said:
It takes a number of things to complete the chain. First it`s low supply. Then sellers/resellers. And at the end of the chain the buyers that make things how they are.
Click to expand...

Agree :)

I think you just put everything I was trying to say in there :D

Suliman, I'm not saying that resellers aren't part of the problem, but it is the player who buys the item the 'end of the chain'.

Totally agree with the posts from Coelacanth.
 
Thorn said:
It takes a number of things to complete the chain. First it`s low supply. Then sellers/resellers. And at the end of the chain the buyers that make things how they are.
Click to expand...
Quite true. The problem is, the market on "demand" items has been on a fairly predictable upward climb, for years now. The "silly" buyers who are paying more and more for their items have the predictable perception that a year later, the item they coughed up all that money for, will be sold for even more. As long as MA allows that upward, predictable trend to continue, this will just continue to happen, also. For a few years now, it's been easy for resellers to proliferate, because they're all almost 100% certain that they'll get more for their product than they paid for.

What MA *ought* to do is *reverse* that trend. Would you pay 20K for a ML-35 if you thought it would be worth half of that--or less--in the future? Hell no! How do they reverse the trend? Reduce demand. There's only one way to reduce demand; either increase the supply of those items, or introduce items that create a similar demand (and NOT *cough* (L) items, that is!).

It's hard to believe this simple economic concept of supply/demand is so hard for MA to tackle and handle. They're only shooting themselves in the foot by reducing the drops of "good" and "uber" items, I'd imagine.
 
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the reason this i like this is cuz a guy and his buddy work together to create a false sense of supply and demand
one guy places and item on bid for XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX <--- excessivle large amount, when its really worth x <- tiny amount and his buddy will buy it at double XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX because he can and neither of them is making money off it cuz after deal the guy gives back item and other guy gets back money. making his crappy item seem relly good when it actually isn't and the rich consumer whores buy right into this scam and make it worse.



thats my :twocents:
ok im done now:D
 
valygar said:
I don't agree with the threadstarter that MA is not to blame. First of all, they shouldn't have made such ubergear like modfaps that mess up the balance. But that's not all. What causes the fixation of prices is the match between supply and demand. And it's stupid to say that MA can't influence the supply curve. They COULD (I don't say that they should) let rare armors drop more often.

The problem is that it's a problem that can't really be fixed anymore. If Shadow armor would suddenly drop like pixie armor, a lot of the people who spent thousands of dollars on their armor, would feel ripped off. I still think they could go a little bit in this direction however, so the supply and demand match stay around the same level. So when more players join, some more parts should drop.

I think it's very naive to say its because of the players, or because of the resellers. Prices in a non-monopoly economy like this, are set by natural rules. Only MA can help out, by increasing the supply, and they are actually doing this at his very moment, by giving us limited uber gear, like Hermes armor.

The limited items are in my opionion, what will enable the mid-classed players to acquire gear that matches up to the uber gear.

Valy
Click to expand...

Well said, totally agree with this post!
 
But it is Mindark's fault. They admit themselves that they have the economy under total control, and I don't see a reason to dispute their word on it. :dunce:
 
I think MA has a lot to do with it, if you think about it.

It's all a matter of supply and demand.

The higher the player activity rate, and the longevity of each player needs to closely control the drop rate of rare to good items.

If there are 5,000 players that have played for years, then 500 more players join them and prove to be players that are likely to continue playing for a while, they need to stop dropping rare and good items as much, and let the ones that are already out there be sold on the market.

Thats just how it works, thats good business.
 
Nobody in this thread seems to realize: MA don't WANT more uber items in the game. In fact, they'd probably like very much to remove them entirely, but ofc it's too late for that now. So instead, they thought for a while and then introduced (L) items. I'm very surprised to hear that uber items are dropping at all.

And as far as resellers and MA's long-term foot-shooting: remember, a speculative market can only last as long as the tulips keep selling for more. But there's always some upper limit to how much ppl will pay for tulip bulbs, isn't there? And when that happens, when the resellers start to panic and sell out to cut their losses, the market must crash. Uber items will still be out of my reach, but I imagine they'll lose at least 75-90% of their value in a matter of months... I've just been waiting for it to happen.
 
another factor for inflation is the predicted lifetime of EU. 5 years ago,who would have thought that one day a useless virtual egg will go for10k usd? the game was small and the possibilities limited => noone wanted to sink 35k usd into a modfap in a game which might be down after a year.

today, EU is full of investors and customers hoping that the concept of EU is good for another 5years and more. so it makes sense to invest big $ into (insert inflated item of your choice) since the game will be on long enough to make good use of that item.
 
CorwinBS said:
Nobody in this thread seems to realize: MA don't WANT more uber items in the game. In fact, they'd probably like very much to remove them entirely, but ofc it's too late for that now. So instead, they thought for a while and then introduced (L) items. I'm very surprised to hear that uber items are dropping at all.

And as far as resellers and MA's long-term foot-shooting: remember, a speculative market can only last as long as the tulips keep selling for more. But there's always some upper limit to how much ppl will pay for tulip bulbs, isn't there? And when that happens, when the resellers start to panic and sell out to cut their losses, the market must crash. Uber items will still be out of my reach, but I imagine they'll lose at least 75-90% of their value in a matter of months... I've just been waiting for it to happen.
Click to expand...

Good point! I definitely think that`s the case that MA do not really want ubder items in game. They woke up one day and realized here are the already highly skilled avatars who are now skating on lots of decay enabling them to snag bigger loots that they can then withdraw. Now we get to pay for it by having high markup items that become trash once they decay. On the other hand they probably lik ethe fact that people mortgage thier house and bring another 50k usd in game for a fap. Looks good to investors at least.
 
To me, stuff that is insanely expensive is that price for one of two good reasons.

1. It's rare, and Very Good.
SO good in fact that MA wish they had never dropped it. As a result it no longer drops.

2. It's Rare.
Some people will pay "over the odds" just to own something that is "Exclusive". Does not matter how good it is, (though it does help if it is good).

I personally don't let the price of some stuff bother me.

I buy what I can afford, shoot what I can kill, and have fun.
 
It's not just the uber items which prices are horribly inflated.
A while ago, i bought a Marber Bravo for about tt+20, which was its normal going price... Recently, i sold it for tt+270. Of course, all this money made a poor Eluqqa very happy, but it shows the very expensive state of things.

I probably bought that gun a few years ago. It's been a while, but it was not in the fabled days of yore when you could get any uber item for just about nothing.
 
I dare say in some senses MA regret the existence of very high economy items and have so stopped them dropping.

I could suggest another reason why they don't drop - I think that MA are very happy that such items exist and that prices rise. A core element of their marketing swings around people thinking maybe you might just see an item in your loot worth 30k USD. You know it will never happen but deep down you hope ....
 
Suliman said:
but who as a mid level irl worker wanna pay for a DAVINCI armour? IN A GAME? A COMPUTER GAME? s
//Suliman
Click to expand...

Welcome to the fact that this isnt JUST a computer GAME ;)
 
valygar said:
I don't agree with the threadstarter that MA is not to blame. First of all, they shouldn't have made such ubergear like modfaps that mess up the balance. But that's not all. What causes the fixation of prices is the match between supply and demand. And it's stupid to say that MA can't influence the supply curve. They COULD (I don't say that they should) let rare armors drop more often.

The problem is that it's a problem that can't really be fixed anymore. If Shadow armor would suddenly drop like pixie armor, a lot of the people who spent thousands of dollars on their armor, would feel ripped off. I still think they could go a little bit in this direction however, so the supply and demand match stay around the same level. So when more players join, some more parts should drop.

I think it's very naive to say its because of the players, or because of the resellers. Prices in a non-monopoly economy like this, are set by natural rules. Only MA can help out, by increasing the supply, and they are actually doing this at his very moment, by giving us limited uber gear, like Hermes armor.

The limited items are in my opionion, what will enable the mid-classed players to acquire gear that matches up to the uber gear.

Valy
Click to expand...

There is only 1 BIG problem with (L)-items...You cant never buy them when you need them ( like the non (L)-items ) and MA wont to drop the blueprints to the better (L)-items.
 
hmm drop 2.5k modfaps & make loot a bit worse, prob solved.
mod fap owners get ripped like all ghost owners once where, just on a bigger scale:yay:
 
I said this in the merry mayhem tread a while ago, but no1 said anything about there ( well, not that I could see ;) )
One of the prizes in merry mayhem was a full set Shadow armor.
I thought this was very bad, coz if its right that gear like that have a droprate conected to the playerbase in some way, what they actually did was to even furter reduce the chance of looting a shadow part.
I think that the prize should have been a unique armor, like the P O E s or something, if it was not P O E, stats could have been similar to shadow or something. That way we still could have a microscopic chance to loot a Shadow part :cool:
So, if there is ever an event like that again, please MA, dont give " lootable"
stuff in prizes, better with something like the P O E or other of the unicque prize items from former events coovers nurse ?? dub and macormic ?? stuff like that, it will still be a very nice prie, and if stats are similar to existing gear, Im sure the price will be higher when sold due to rareness.

Just my 2 pecs ;)

S V :)
 
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