Idea to boost Economy

Rampsy

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Click here for 'Too Long Didn't Read' at post 2 if text is too big OR read on for more details and examples.

So lately I was thinking about the current economy, and the following issues are at hand:

  1. Mining have rather low MU returns
  2. Hunting has low MU returns on most items
  3. Crafting isn't possible to be profitable for most items


Why are these issues in our economy?
  1. (L) items drop from hunting, which compete with crafters
  2. Too many (UL) items in the game, it used to be for the elite, nowadays a lot of people have UL gear


Due to the fact that more UL items come to the game, their prices drop, a lot of people think this is positive, because it makes UL gear affordable for all. However, is this really as positive as people think?

  • If UL gear prices drop, so will (L) gear prices
  • If (L) gear prices drop, so will the ingredients MU's
  • Results in: both item drops as ingredients drops will have lower MU, meaning hunting becomes less profitable.
  • Same for Mining, and as a result, same for crafting.


This is something that has been going on for a few years by now, and MU keeps dropping. If this continues, then eventually we will reach a point where all the stuff will be TT food or close to TT...

This would also mean that, in time, profiting will become impossible, because we get on average 93% TT returns. With MU you can still make profit by hunting smart, but with current evolution, eventually all will be TT food , so that means that all of us will be losing money all the time. (This is not yet the case, don't respond with "you should hunt smart", because I know it's still possible to profit now, I just mean that with current evolution eventually we will reach that point).

We are constantly getting closer to that point, and we see people stop playing due to that already.

So I was thinking about that, how we can fix that.

I think, first of all, there should be less UL gear, but hey, you can't undo what's already done, so that's not an option.
I know some may not like to hear this, but higher MU on UL gear actually would help the economy, because that would also raise (L) gear MU, and due to that also the ingredients MU.




So here is the solutions I came up with, and I wanted to have your ideas:

1. Drop less (L) gear, so that crafting will become more important again, however, don't delete all (L) gear drops!
2. Give UL gear a new advantage, so their MU raise again, which will make (L) gear rise as well, BUT!!! Make sure that the advantage on the UL gear also raises the rest of the economy (crafting/mining/hunting materials)

This second option is what I started thinking about, because at first, this looked impossible to me, but after a little thinking it dawned on me that the solution is so logical and simple... But we never think about it, because we are stuck in habits, because we are used to certain game mechanics.



To compare it with a real life item (a camera):
- You have disposable camera's, this you can compare with L gear. You use it until you made all the photo's you can make with it, afterwards you throw it away.
- Then you have the normal camera's. which you can compare to UL gear. These camera's can be reused all the time. However, in real life, they break as well. And then you have to repair them. But how do we repair them? You don't repair them by glueing money on them (which we do in EU... we just put peds into repairing). No... If the lense gets broken, a new lense has to be made. That costs money, true, but it needs a lense first!



So this made me think of the following idea:
Create a new way of repairing your UL gear.
Make it so that we have 2 options:
1. Repair with peds, like we have now.
2. Repair with repair items. For example, you could make craftable items like "trigger" for a gun or buttons for pants and stuff like that. So you repair the weapon by putting a new trigger on it.

Lets use an example and say that repairing a gun would cost you 100 ped if you repair it on the current way of repairing (with peds).
Then maybe we could repair a gun with metal for example, and it would cost us 50peds TT instead of 100 ped.
Result: The MU of this metal/trigger/... will be a little below 200%. So people buying this kind of repair items will be able to repair cheaper, which makes UL items more valuable again. But at the same time, crafters are able to craft certain items with high MU, which will make crafting more valuable again. At the same time, the basic ingredients for these crafting BP's will raise again, so also mining and hunting become more valuable again.


To make this all even better, we could maybe even use the same blueprints for these repair items, as for (L) gear.

So for example:

I have gun A as an UL edition.
But there is also a gun A as an (L) edition.

Right now, with the current way the game works, to create Gun A (L), you need material X, Y & Z. Those can be made with certain basic mats.
An example: lets say a gun should use some materials called "trigger", "gun barrel" and "gun sleeve".
Right now these would for example be items with a TT value of 40 ped, 30 ped and 25 ped.
What if we would change it into "trigger pieces", "gun barrel pieces" and "gun sleeve pieces"? All worth 0.01 ped each, but stackables. So crafting the (L) gun would require 4000 trigger pieces, 3000 gun barrel pieces & 2500 gun sleeve pieces.

This way it stays the same for crafting the (L) gear, and it's easy for MindArk to change this, because you can change a 25ped crafted material into 2500x 0.01 ped stackable material.
But by doing this, we can then use the stackable pieces for the repairing idea above.


So this way:
- UL guns have an advantage of being able to repair cheaper (allthough it won't be much, because MU will be close to the normal TT repair I guess)
- Still keep the current repair option as well (will be a little bit more expensive, but that way people won't get stuck if no repair items are available on market)
- Crafters can craft an item of 200% MU
- The required materials for those crafted items will therefor also get higher MU
- By using the same items for (L) gear craft as for repair, it's:
1. More realistic
2. Makes the (L) gear get Markup as well
3. Will make the middle products more interesting, because nowadays, the middle crafted items are often unsold on auction, and people who craft an end-product usually craft the inetween materials themselves therefore. But with this change, people would have more chances to sell their middle product.
4. It creates a market for a lot of BP's that are currently useless/unused, because the repairing can be done through already existing BP's to boost them up again by giving them this new use.
5. It will also add some extra depth in crafting: crafters will have to make a choice, will they sell the middle product for repairing, or will they use them for the end product ((L) gear)



What do you guys think of this idea? Feel free to give your opinion, good or bad :) but Please also explain why you think so. Would be nice to have a good discussion about this, maybe it could lead to ideas for the developers to make this game better.
 
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TLDR:

Change repairing system to a dual option:
1. Current system (repair with peds)
2. Repair with materials (lower TT cost, but MU will make up for it)

For example:
- 100 ped repair
- 50 ped TT material repair => MU will raise to close to 200% (for example 195%)

This will create a new economy, as materials will get MU again.

=> Make current BP middle-products stackables of 0.01 ped each instead of valued items, so they can be used for repairing, but also can still be used for crafting (L) gear. Due to this, make middle products more important again, and boost the crafting profession's economy, while adding new depth into crafting system, and reviving some useless/unused BP's.
 
something that can boost the economy even the players to play more ? MA that dont suck you 5k ped every 3 days ... could be fun to play ... :handjob:
 
So here is the solutions I came up with, and I wanted to have your ideas:

1. Don't drop (L) gear, it should all be crafted using different BP's so that crafting will become more important again.
2. UL gear don't need an advantage, they can be repaired, however do make universal ammo be able to be used for repairing that way melee users will stop complaining.
3. Start dropping materials for BP's that no longer drop so that useless BP's can be crafted again, or swap out those items for similar items that do currently drop or can be crafted.

Fixed for you.
 
TLDR:

Change repairing system to a dual option:
1. Current system (repair with peds)
2. Repair with materials (lower TT cost, but MU will make up for it)

For example:
- 100 ped repair
- 50 ped TT material repair => MU will raise to close to 200% (for example 195%)

This will create a new economy, as materials will get MU again.

=> Make current BP middle-products stackables of 0.01 ped each instead of valued items, so they can be used for repairing, but also can still be used for crafting (L) gear. Due to this, make middle products more important again, and boost the crafting profession's economy, while adding new depth into crafting system, and reviving some useless/unused BP's.

I could hunt getting 95% TT back then repair my sword decay paying only 50% of that decay in TT. That would allow for players to pull money from MA and is never going to happen. MA doesn't care that much about MU, it's player to player thing. MA cares about TT and makes sure what you put in is more than what you get back - it's how they earn money. It's plain impossible for everyone to be profitable - money has to come from somebody, either other player or MA itself.
 
Well, you could possibly stimulate MU by getting rid of standard way of repairing items and replace it with materials based with 100% TT (+MU). That could stimulate MU but also increase price of hunting/mining. It's like pulling money from left pocket and putting it in right :laugh: No matter what change MA does, most ppl will lose anyway - no way around this.
 
I could hunt getting 95% TT back then repair my sword decay paying only 50% of that decay in TT. That would allow for players to pull money from MA and is never going to happen. MA doesn't care that much about MU, it's player to player thing. MA cares about TT and makes sure what you put in is more than what you get back - it's how they earn money. It's plain impossible for everyone to be profitable - money has to come from somebody, either other player or MA itself.
Hey Frey, thanks for your response, but I think you misunderstood :)

1. I know not all can profit. But the way we are evolving to now, is that all will lose, except mindark, cause there will be no more way to profit.

2. You get 95% back, but you don't pay 50% like you said. The TT is indeed 50%, but with markup it would be more like 99%.

3. Mindark won't lose on it either. It will just create more versatility, and more activity in all professions. It's true that currently 100% of the repair costs go to mindark, yes. With my idea, it would be bought from players. But is that a loss for mindark? No, because the items required for repairing will come from crafting, and mining. The losses on crafting and the probes TT cost are the income for mindark then. So mindark will get the same money, but players will have a say to sell items and have fun that way.
 
Well, you could possibly stimulate MU by getting rid of standard way of repairing items and replace it with materials based with 100% TT (+MU). That could stimulate MU but also increase price of hunting/mining. It's like pulling money from left pocket and putting it in right :laugh: No matter what change MA does, most ppl will lose anyway - no way around this.
Yes, correct, there will always be people losing, that's right. But right now we are heading towards a point where all lose, so no more chance of making profit, not even when hunting smart. Right now it's still possible, but with the prices continuing to drop, soon even smart hunting won't help, as there will be no more MU. When that happens, if there is no more chance to profit, I bet that a lot of people will stop playing, EU will eventually die.
 
Yes, correct, there will always be people losing, that's right. But right now we are heading towards a point where all lose, so no more chance of making profit, not even when hunting smart. Right now it's still possible, but with the prices continuing to drop, soon even smart hunting won't help, as there will be no more MU. When that happens, if there is no more chance to profit, I bet that a lot of people will stop playing, EU will eventually die.

I think it's the other way around. There is less and less MU because there is less and less demand which indicates less players playing. There is no MU because game is not expanding and most likely shrinking slowly.

Other thing is that if you mine or hunt you don't really need to buy anything if you are developed player.

Mining:
- UL finder
- UL extractor or TT one
- TT probes

Hunting:
- UL armor
- UL gun
- TT ammo

Don't expect MU if players don't have to buy anything from others to play. Even if you get rid of ULs then once again you will have to pay MU to buy gear in order to get MU back on mats. Same shit if you ask me but more hassle :)
 
[*]Too many (UL) items in the game, it used to be for the elite, nowadays a lot of people have UL gear
[/LIST]
B.S. TT machine used to carry UL items that lots of folks used at the time... I do agree on some points, but even UL sib stuff wasn't 'for elite' even when it first came out.

2. Repair with repair items. For example, you could make craftable items like "trigger" for a gun or buttons for pants and stuff like that. So you repair the weapon by putting a new trigger on it.
If you review the books, you'll see Mindark was headed in that direction for a while with the way component book II, Weapon book II, etc. started out... but they decided that wasn't the way to go with it all since it was too complicated (at least that's what I'm guessing they were thinking)...

Your idea about 'making UL' work different than L to give them a new potential is a good idea though... What I think they should do is make it so that buffs can be added via crafting to UL items... but only the old school UL stuff or new non-sib UL stuff... so you'd basically have two paths... L and SIB or UL and Buffy....

well, that and make explosives impossible to TT... make is so you have to use em or sell em if you crafted em... but... if they do that they should 'balance it' by stopping the sell of regular ammo in tt, make it sell universal... and convert it so probes cannot be TTed but have to be used similar to how universal ammo works.
 
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we had this economy pre-2012...

basically it was hyper-inflation... avg ore markup was like 140% lol

but you also couldn't really hunt/mine without paying a hefty markup input.

MA has since then made EU more expensive for higher bankroll players while making EU cheaper for lower-bankroll players..

just an appeasing of the masses thing really.

Eliminate EP BPs, thats all

this is a "fix-all" solution tbh... one step further.. just eliminate ep4... 1-3 are fine
 
To stimulate economy and generate MU, its needed to create a demand.

The more UL items come into game, the less will be the demand for anything crafted.

So we need a way to create a demand that is not player sold to player items for the crafted goods, and there is a very easy solution.

Install daily trade in missions!

Example:
Deliver X PED of weapons.
Deliver X PED of medic tools.
Deliver X PED of armor parts.
Deliver x number of Jester D-1 (or whatever crafted item)
aso aso

Now if a player accepts such a trade in mission, he gets back the full TT of the delivered item + some mission reward.
This mission reward could be something like the daily tokens or simply 1 attribute token.

Asuming they make the reward for this trade missions 1 Atribut token, and 1 daily trade mission for every attribute, there would be real demand for this crafted items.
Even the items could generate MU, as some players very likely will be to lazy to craft the items themself and simply buy it from auction.

Would it cost MA anything?
NO, attributs are not chipable so not tradeable.

It could also be a three level mission, that reward with 1, 2 or 3 tokens.

Maybe like that:
L1 Mission - 250 PED to trade in 1 token
L2 Mission - 500 PED to trade in 2 token
L3 Mission - 1000 PED to trade in 3 token

That would create 1750 PED demand of crafted items for each attribute = 8750 PED demand of crafted items / player who like to get all possible attribute tokens / day.

That would really boost economy!
 
Yes, correct, there will always be people losing, that's right. But right now we are heading towards a point where all lose, so no more chance of making profit, not even when hunting smart. Right now it's still possible, but with the prices continuing to drop, soon even smart hunting won't help, as there will be no more MU. When that happens, if there is no more chance to profit, I bet that a lot of people will stop playing, EU will eventually die.

Right. When no one is willing to pay to play, the game will die.

Markup isn't only about making more, it's about being willing to pay more.

If I understand the OP this requires one of two things to happen:

a) MA defines an incredible new system that tracks exactly the price that each player paid for each ingot/rock/stone/resource in inventory so that this terminal can repay the user's MU directly from MA's primary income source (e.g. decay ...)

or

b) MA accepts ingots/rocks/whatever at current MV for the cost of repairs. MA just deducts the additional cost (that another player took as profit) and also any savings between what the player paid and what current MV is directly from their income.

Both of these situations seems to end up with a player being able to withdraw peds that would have kept the servers on (MA giving up core revenue).

Admittedly the one where they develop and integrate an entire new game system to minimize their revenue is slightly less likely than the one where they just start giving away peds.
 
I think it's the other way around. There is less and less MU because there is less and less demand which indicates less players playing. There is no MU because game is not expanding and most likely shrinking slowly.

from PP player (RT) perspective:
There's less MU because so much loot is bugged and this leaves the crafters with a small amount of items to craft, so rather that having diversified hunting all the player funnel into the same mob (vixen) and this drives the MU down... like vixen gears went down from 1000% MU to <500% MU...
there's no need for big guns/amps when all you can do is hunt puny vixens, because all other mobs have no items in demand...

Stuff we can't craft atm because loot 2.0 broke loot:
- weapons
- armor
- armor plates
- some of the attachments
- vehicles
- some of the clothes
- some of the furniture
- player-owned instance keys
- some of the RT/hell instance keys
- some of the textures

so some/many hunters just migrate to caly, driving down MU of stuff on caly... same with crafters...

PP stuff needs to get fixed, then players will spread across the universe and supply of stuff on caly will decrease and the MUs should go up...
 
Actual mindark have 0 interresing to fix economy
because if players can win over others based markups in long term mean less deposit
its much more profitable to mindark make everyone as fool believe get tt 98% in short term with shit mu is better get tt 90% with decent ammount markup , to not say about reduce votality and !!!! off any multiplier exist
 
Actual mindark have 0 interresing to fix economy
because if players can win over others based markups in long term mean less deposit
its much more profitable to mindark make everyone as fool believe get tt 98% in short term with shit mu is better get tt 90% with decent ammount markup , to not say about reduce votality and !!!! off any multiplier exist

Correct!

Mindark wants to drain the economy not build it up.
You are a fool if you invest in EU.. unless you think you can fool someone else even more
 
Actual mindark have 0 interresing to fix economy
because if players can win over others based markups in long term mean less deposit
its much more profitable to mindark make everyone as fool believe get tt 98% in short term with shit mu is better get tt 90% with decent ammount markup , to not say about reduce votality and !!!! off any multiplier exist

98% tt-return with 102,05% is equal to 90% tt-return with 111,11% MU for the seller. However, at the 90% tt-return players need to depo a lot more to compensate for the tt-return loss.

So MA has done us a favour by increasing the tt-returns/reducing the volatility...

don't let yourself get fooled by only looking at MU numbers...
 
Easiest way to fix economy is to find some players. We are at best a community of 5k people. A measly 1000 new players would be a 20% increase in player base.

And when I say players I don’t mean a thousand more sweaters.
 
I think there is another way to boost the economy, add resourses from mining and hunting to EP bp isn't?
 
TLDR:

Change repairing system to a dual option:
1. Current system (repair with peds)
2. Repair with materials (lower TT cost, but MU will make up for it)

For example:
- 100 ped repair
- 50 ped TT material repair => MU will raise to close to 200% (for example 195%)

That would increase MA's TT liability every time the repair terminal is used. They'd be bankrupt within a month.
 
For me the game is correct, nothing should be changed, just use your head before every move you make.
I even think that MU on things are high, should be even less than what it is.
You want to play than pay.
Play at your confort level, and deposit at the right time.
 
For me the game is correct, nothing should be changed, just use your head before every move you make.
I even think that MU on things are high, should be even less than what it is.
You want to play than pay.
Play at your confort level, and deposit at the right time.

Lol, just so you know, I didn't start the topic to whine, because I don't want to depo or so, cause I've probably donated more than 100 times as much as you have ;) there ain't many who donated more than me, so no worries, I pay when I want to play. The idea I came up with was more for others than for me (I don't mine nor craft, so it makes no difference to me), but the way it's goint now, I only see 1 possible outcome if they don't change things, and that is the game will bleed to death imo.
 
Eliminating EP IV won't solve anything. I don't really like some of its cosmetic impacts either, but I used to believe it would solve all of our MU problems. But it won't. Metal residue used to be 108%+. Everything that was crafted (L) was immediately 108% cost base. The alternative, which is to craft condition, is out of the question. Components to make guns/armors is too expensive to risk on condition.

It took significantly more TT addition over the TT of the ingredients in order to be able to sell end products at a MU that buyers could accept. Some crafters bought ingredients and crafted end products. Part of those ingredients was a 108% MU stack of residue. It inflated just about everything across the board.

Explosive projectiles provides us with a low cost residue which allows for crafting to still have a chance success and chance return system. Crafters can have a supply of residue to fill in the missing condition value at a realistic MU. I believe taking that supply out now will cause side effects we ultimately don't want.
 
I think there is another way to boost the economy, add resourses from mining and hunting to EP bp isn't?

This.


*short*

Eliminate EP BPs, thats all

I'm going to post my reply from the current thread on this topic:

Right one year ago you could still buy gear that would basically print you ped (they deserved it right) and the whole time and still today people are on that EP ruined the economy.

MA straight took a cut of the money that gamblers were spending crafting items that were never sold at MV (or in most cases for any MU at all) but TT'd.

I understand some player resentment but also it's a lot of single cycle wasted ped and they had to keep the doors open while 3.xx and even 4+ DPP players were takin' home the bacon.

TBH I hope for some actual rebalancing so I can feel like I want to be a crafter again but at least in the meantime they've shut that hole and made hunting a lot more tolerable for a lot of players.

IMO EP I-IV kept the doors open here until loot 2.0.

There is nothing wrong with these BPs, they just pointed out some other massive problems. It turns out, in the end, that these BPs were not the reason for the emptying of the "loot pool" that everyone thought they were.

I wish I had time to find and link all the posts from mid-high level players that sold all their crap and started doing nothing but EP crafting, er even just quit. Taking away EP doesn't mean those players are going to start buying your loot at competitive MU to "the old days". If they didn't have incentive to also hunt/mine themselves they would have no use for your stuff.

The DPP hole is (mostly) closed now, they're working on the event formats and doing other things to bring new players into the game. Players that don't start with their buddies telling them how to spend 10-20k USD and start taking home a paycheck from EU in a month.

EP is not actually a bad thing overall. Given the (apparent) choice between taking some MU from the player base or shutting down, I'm glad EU is here and do see EP as a part of that.

Also as someone else mentioned, the only way for those crafters (the straight TT gamblers) to get close to TT was markup on the res that they generated. It's probably true that if you take away EP now you're looking at an instant 8 - 12% increase in the prices for most (L) items.

You can push these numbers around, but there has to be some minimums or it just all shuts down.
 
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Lol, just so you know, I didn't start the topic to whine, because I don't want to depo or so, cause I've probably donated more than 100 times as much as you have ;) there ain't many who donated more than me, so no worries, I pay when I want to play. The idea I came up with was more for others than for me (I don't mine nor craft, so it makes no difference to me), but the way it's goint now, I only see 1 possible outcome if they don't change things, and that is the game will bleed to death imo.

I was not talking about you I was talking in general, always have eared that game will end soon but is still here.
Am playing more or at least the same and depositing way less and having more interest in game. Just have discovered how it should be played that's all.
A lot of people are here for profit and forget that this is a game.
Game is very well done and like I said for me no need for big changes
 
TLDR: didn't read
 
Just take the EPs out of the global stream. The gamblers are still going to do it, it would make the chat log fill slower, and it would reduce the complaining we all do about it. It wouldn't fix anything specifically, other than allowing other actual problems to be discussed.
 
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