FYI: high end item crafting is a worse lottory than vegas

A-Bomb said:

And im pretty sure the owner of the Dante BP cant craft any because the material needed isnt in supply .

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I thought it was platinum, but could be wrong. And I think dekel owns the dante bp.

I saw some gloablling on a101 ore amps yeasterday.. one after the other of 50 peds to 90 and then too finish things off he dropped a 2300 pedder..

for some strange reason i thought oooo i'll have ago bough materials etc.. and got naff all back.. unless things change there will never be uber crafters just because of the huge losses, other mmo's may just have a monthly fee which over time becomes more tempting due too the cost of this game.

the worlds most expensive free game ever... lets see what crytopia brings..

Was always a gamble, but after VU they pushed it yet again. My hope is that at some point they'll also understand is too much..

And regarding oa 101 on condition: it *used* to be aprox 1 succes for 10 clicks, enough to still loose big time on markup of ores, except the lucky bastards taking ATH. Nowadays? I crafted for 1 day oa 101 on condition (2k+ clicks) and got constant 2/3 succeses for 100 clicks. Got a 900 and a 1900 hof, but those were just silly jokes for what I spent.

Curious where MA will stop with this silly pushing.

Ah and for CoS on many clicks: how does sound 300 clicks on p1a on qty, qr 100, lvl 18 laser eng, 80 succeses?

P.S.: I also saw it in mining, 1 find in 200 bombs on CND is just not right.

Kerham said:

Was always a gamble, but after VU they pushed it yet again. My hope is that at some point they'll also understand is too much..

And regarding oa 101 on condition: it *used* to be aprox 1 succes for 10 clicks, enough to still loose big time on markup of ores, except the lucky bastards taking ATH. Nowadays? I crafted for 1 day oa 101 on condition (2k+ clicks) and got constant 2/3 succeses for 100 clicks. Got a 900 and a 1900 hof, but those were just silly jokes for what I spent.

Curious where MA will stop with this silly pushing.

Ah and for CoS on many clicks: how does sound 300 clicks on p1a on qty, qr 100, lvl 18 laser eng, 80 succeses?

P.S.: I also saw it in mining, 1 find in 200 bombs on CND is just not right.

Click to expand...

I'm not really a crafter but would have thought that increasing successes/attempts would be the way to go with (L) items to push down the crazy mark ups on these throw-aways. After all MA could balance increased success with lower base tt output of limited goods over the crafter population as residue is used to fill the tt. How on earth are we supposed to have a fluid economy, and shops be stocked at reasonable prices under the present conditions.

More success, lower prices for tools weapons, = more active miners and hunters.

DrPaddo said:

Maybe its gotta do with:

EntropiaTracker.com Loot Trends

Hunting Loot: + 55.84 %
Mining Loot: + 44.05 %
Crafting Loot: + 15.76 %

Click to expand...

Ahhh, 24 hours later, good to see Crafters still get ass-fucked:

EntropiaTracker.com Loot Trends
Hunting Loot: + 42.93 %
Mining Loot: + 29.46 %
Crafting Loot: - -4.54 %

C'mon MA stop the bulllshit already !

I myself havent even logged on in 2 days cuz I hate to see the reactions when ppl are crafting next to me...

Xen said:

I thought it was platinum, but could be wrong. And I think dekel owns the dante bp.

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Akoz is in charge of that monopoly now. Look at Bruud's buying thread for details.

I had my first positive return crafting run in more than a year a couple days ago. I also had 1/11 success rate on some armor i was making. It's definitely a rollercoaster.

InDaHouse said:

Y
Same thing happens with Dante amps. People saying that if cost close to the about 2k to get 1 amp but as far as I'm aware we have 1 Dante BP ingame right? So he/she has no competition and no list of materials on Bob the Builder website so we cant check. I'm pretty sure the owner of the Dante BP is making an absolute fortune right now!

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There is not only 1 BP.
There only 1 owner as far as i know and you are posting in his thread

I dont know if he make absolute fortune right now , but you can be sure he make 2 absolute fortune over the time , since he sell them for over 3 year
And he is whinning for a bad run on rxxx dunno what ...
Aint that funny ?

The problem as I see it is the way the COS bar lies.

I'd rather it not be there tbh, as when clicking lvl6 L upwards, on quantity and still getting instances of 10 failures.

It is swings and round abouts as the other week, I made 8 AL24 scorpius from 9 clicks, and then straight after, made 3 s40 from 36 clicks D lvl1 aswell)

Crafting is now more of a lottery than ever before and I personally blame loots like MS's lvl1 ATH.

~90k on a lvl1 BP is totally bad for the game. Fair enough, it gets people clicking and losing on 101BP's but it takes away the need for skills. QR is far more important now. Skills just let you click more expensive bp's thats all.

Saying that, everyone is singing from the same Hymm sheet and everyone knows how it is so, if you know the rules, you can't really complain

Saying that though, I do get pissed off when I get my natural EU loot low period just as I'm clicking mp X1 BP

Doer said:

Akoz is in charge of that monopoly now. Look at Bruud's buying thread for details.

I had my first positive return crafting run in more than a year a couple days ago. I also had 1/11 success rate on some armor i was making. It's definitely a rollercoaster.

Click to expand...

I think youll have to agree with me that with the current settings the 1-arm-bandit (Crafting machines) do need some adjustments, say for example, the higher lvl your BP, the better return you will get, seeing the materials spent...

As I was on my personal quest to get my Simple I Springs BP @ 100QR (Started from 0.1) I noticed some people were HOF-ing them day after day after day after.......

Now that struck me, as Im at level 12 Mech. Engineer at the moment, I tried to set the slider (Condition / Quantity) from left to right, and all options in the middle, but the more I got tto the right the worse the loot went, then I set it back @ Quantity and got a 142 PED-er (HOF, but not worthy to post here)

Now look past the 9.0 VU, this screen should say enough about the "rollercoaster" effect:

(A little text will be quoted also)

-----------------------------------------------

All was going well, a few 20 PED-ers here 'n there, bam, Global!

"Nice thats a run with profi..." Wham, another one!
"OMG" "This is gonna be another month of bad loots..."
Minutes later another Global...
The guy next to me HOF-ed for 2.2K PED...
"OMG this machine is on fire" we shouted out

I went crafting OA-101 Lights as I was confident a HOF would lurk my way...
How wrong was I to think that (As I remembered while crafting I sold my Attachment Skills) - but managed to get some nice Residue + 101 Globals. . .

The loss was tremendous
"Dammit there goes my 5B Set" I thought...
Went to bed to wake up with a good vibe, turned on EU, first click - 25 PED-er...
"Thats nice, now some coffee"
made 1 last click before, but not before switching from Simple I, to Simple II Conductors.
First click -> Global! 116PED
I was LMFAO - This must be my lucky day, the guy who I was crafting with saw it and yelled to me Lucky S.O.A.B. and a big Gratz came from my Soc mates, but still no coffee... So off i went to the kitchen (wich is next to my room)
Came back every 10 seconds to make a click and when I returned to my room, with coffee, I saw the Camera zoom out...
"OMG Another Glo.. What the feck?"
[br]Click to enlarge[/br]
"OMG OMG OMG"
*dropped my coffee on my desk and started doing the EU-Rave*

-----------------------------------------------

Now get this, why do people even go all Condition, when its possible to uber right there on Quantity???

Like if I see 25/30/40 Fails in a row, I immediatly switch back to Quantity, getting less loot, but i do actually get loot!

Point of all: As the system is now, its utter bullocks... win big lose big...
Hopefully CryEngine will bring features wich will get the enjoyment for crafters back...

Wich reminds me of Ben Cobra Boner, who claimed he lost $30K Bux in a month doing Amps, is this the way to treat the people who put their wagers at stake? Some say "Deposit what you can miss" and I have to agree on that, but for some people they are in over their heads and thinklt hat by depositing some more their ATH will pop up some day

-rep me for whatever reason, just had to vent myself for a bit there

(Feel alot better now)

Kerham said:

P.S.: I also saw it in mining, 1 find in 200 bombs on CND is just not right.

Click to expand...

Second that from my own experience.

If the crafting COS *has* changed permanently with the new VU I think more high-level crafters should have noticed?

9 clicks and 0 return is statistically unlikely but not impossibe. To stick to the Vegas comparison: as Vegas regular I know bad runs happen, and the 3 Sigma ones (>99% chance this outcome does NOT happen) are the most painfull. Imagine being at a hot deck in BlackJack, max bet the table can handle and splitting your tens twice, getting 4 x 20 on the table and the dealer hit 21... Hurts more in $ than 9 missed clicks, I can tell you that. Only difference is that the rules in Vegas are clear and in EU you need to figure out the changes by your own experience, which increase the pain a lot.

/Slupor

lol, some nice comment ETOPIA, jelousy is a nice thing dont u think ?, lol, maybe dante is profitable, in 6 years it was the ONLY bp i looted that ever worth something, also not ATH and no nother big, so really, do u even knwo waht u takl about ? only because of the fact i played my cards right and didnt ruin dante like most ppl do with thier bps should mean anything...


point is this, COS bar lies, it doesnt inflect anything, its all luck.
MA should really chage thier sysytem, no problem with needed 100s of clicks to get even on a filters run, but when u do 500+ peds click runs, u cant afford 10+ failures, it just aint reasonable, MA should make a differance between high priced clicking and low priced

tell me, the new vrx3k bp (that bought it for 21k peds), how can he know if he is giong to make profit ?
by calculating matirialsx3+residue and see if the selling price is better ?

but thats BS, cause he will need like maybe 1000s clicks to really have his calc reasonable, atm i cant even count matirialsx5 on a maxed bp, cause its just ALL lottory,

so hmmmm, 1k clicks on vrx, thats what ? 500k peds ? who have that buffer ?, why letting us get 10 failorues in a row, or 10 success in a row, thats just stupid, MA should make the COS bar true, meaning, if max cos is 44%, make it varied from 30%-50%, on low end items 100 clicks, on high end items, 10 clicks.

meaning MINIMUM ull get frmo 10 clcks is 3, maximum is 5, that way its fair.

dekel said:

meaning MINIMUM ull get frmo 10 clcks is 3, maximum is 5, that way its fair.

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That would be fair, but that would not allow them to control the number of high end items currently available ingame.

What do you think would happen if you where 100% sure to get at least 3 items in 10 clicks ? If you can profit on getting 3 items in 10 clicks you will also profit on 100 clicks and we will quickly have lots of finders available on the market. This will make the price drop and more miners will use them so more rare ores will be found and their price will drop to so ...

I'll stop here you see the picture.

So high risk of bad runs on those high end items looks good for me, it prevents prices to drop.

To maintain the economy of Dante Amp, a certain crafter did limit the number available. MA is just making the same on a different way

dekel said:

lol, some nice comment ETOPIA, jelousy is a nice thing dont u think ?, lol, maybe dante is profitable, in 6 years it was the ONLY bp i looted that ever worth something, also not ATH and no nother big, so really, do u even knwo waht u takl about ? only because of the fact i played my cards right and didnt ruin dante like most ppl do with thier bps should mean anything...


point is this, COS bar lies, it doesnt inflect anything, its all luck.
MA should really chage thier sysytem, no problem with needed 100s of clicks to get even on a filters run, but when u do 500+ peds click runs, u cant afford 10+ failures, it just aint reasonable, MA should make a differance between high priced clicking and low priced

tell me, the new vrx3k bp (that bought it for 21k peds), how can he know if he is giong to make profit ?
by calculating matirialsx3+residue and see if the selling price is better ?

but thats BS, cause he will need like maybe 1000s clicks to really have his calc reasonable, atm i cant even count matirialsx5 on a maxed bp, cause its just ALL lottory,

so hmmmm, 1k clicks on vrx, thats what ? 500k peds ? who have that buffer ?, why letting us get 10 failorues in a row, or 10 success in a row, thats just stupid, MA should make the COS bar true, meaning, if max cos is 44%, make it varied from 30%-50%, on low end items 100 clicks, on high end items, 10 clicks.

meaning MINIMUM ull get frmo 10 clcks is 3, maximum is 5, that way its fair.

Click to expand...

i am not jealous...
I just think you are pathetic ...
You make nice money , you can aford your loss for sure..
You are here since enought time to know how crafting is working...
If you did clidk som of your skill that you like to brag about , you should know it...
I dont think if on your 20 click bp you have made 20 item , you make a thread to thanks MA , and give som of those stuff away...
You would have make great profit , and noone would have know it...
I do understand when som player come and whine about this and that cuz its crapy...
But i really dont like your thread evry 6 month to whinne about crafting system...
you are just pathetic...
If evrytime i buy a L bp and on 20 click i have 20 fail i make thread , i guess 711 would have make a forum part called etopia whining area...


Is EU ramdom system shit , yes.
Do i think MA should change the system , yes.

But thats the way it is since 6 year.... so why wake up now...

Make a thread with data , problem and so on , and speak about it , fine...

But just that lame whining ... pathetic

StrongMinded said:

I don´t think it matter what you click atm...

I did 150 clicks yesterday on a oreamp 101 (condition) and had 1 success, 2 near success and the rest was just total f**kups... The QR on the bp is 64 and i usually global atleast a few times during 50 clicks.. Made me pissed off as hell!!

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Was about to mention that. When I had my OA-101 phase I managed to fail 48 times in a row one night.

On the opposite, a "beginner" can do some thousand peds with 48 clicks.

So I stopped crafting one day, as its only worth when crafting away 10k PED in a short time.

Or you do a 1k PED run on jester D1...or...dyamic madness ^^*b00m*

Exactly same thing on weapons - especially the QR dependent bps. It drives me nuts clicking on a 1QR print which costs 100s of peds per click. But non-L prints aren't the only ones to suffer from this injustice. Worst run I've had was 8 fails / partials on a L bp (max. success rate) of H46 Menes. I nearly puked with the cost of that run.

Etopia said:

i am not jealous...
I just think you are pathetic ...
You make nice money , you can aford your loss for sure..
You are here since enought time to know how crafting is working...
If you did clidk som of your skill that you like to brag about , you should know it...
I dont think if on your 20 click bp you have made 20 item , you make a thread to thanks MA , and give som of those stuff away...
You would have make great profit , and noone would have know it...
I do understand when som player come and whine about this and that cuz its crapy...
But i really dont like your thread evry 6 month to whinne about crafting system...
you are just pathetic...
If evrytime i buy a L bp and on 20 click i have 20 fail i make thread , i guess 711 would have make a forum part called etopia whining area...


Is EU ramdom system shit , yes.
Do i think MA should change the system , yes.

But thats the way it is since 6 year.... so why wake up now...

Make a thread with data , problem and so on , and speak about it , fine...

But just that lame whining ... pathetic

Click to expand...

this is an informative post+ suggestion, includes whining but not the only post of it, u just choose to see it that way,

and the fact that u chose "system is crap, been crap, so i wont try to change it" approach is very sad,

because i play EU for 6 years, and because few years ago CRAFTING WAS 3 out of 10 on the bad cases, i do believe MA can change it.

the one saying MA cant afford giving us fair COS cause it will cause an unlimtied supply of items has a point, but MA controll it via ores anyway.

i mean, if zand was droping like crazy, the rich ones of us could do 1000s clicks vrx2k and get a decent success rate, but MA limit that one...

they do 2 limitations atm, and thats aint fair, its either, we get unlimited ore supply and than we can afford the current COS variantions, or we get a fair cos and a limited ore supply..

atm we have both and thats what bad, few years back it wasnt like that and sysytem worked so well, i guess they can find a solution.

btw, on the higher end bps lvl11+ they did add another limitation (finally btw), the skill limitantion. so... there are other ways

dekel said:

this is an informative post+ suggestion, includes whining but not the only post of it, u just choose to see it that way,

and the fact that u chose "system is crap, been crap, so i wont try to change it" approach is very sad,

because i play EU for 6 years, and because few years ago CRAFTING WAS 3 out of 10 on the bad cases, i do believe MA can change it.

the one saying MA cant afford giving us fair COS cause it will cause an unlimtied supply of items has a point, but MA controll it via ores anyway.

i mean, if zand was droping like crazy, the rich ones of us could do 1000s clicks vrx2k and get a decent success rate, but MA limit that one...

they do 2 limitations atm, and thats aint fair, its either, we get unlimited ore supply and than we can afford the current COS variantions, or we get a fair cos and a limited ore supply..

atm we have both and thats what bad, few years back it wasnt like that and sysytem worked so well, i guess they can find a solution.

btw, on the higher end bps lvl11+ they did add another limitation (finally btw), the skill limitantion. so... there are other ways

Click to expand...

MA do what make people click...
They dont care if crafting is fair , logic or what ever...

They make som BP that looks good so noob click.
Som old player make money so noob believe they will get rich.
And the success is very low , so they can make very big ATH.

noob see that , deposit som thousand $ and click like crazy , buy skill , bp and all that and hope to become rich.. and he will never... but who carre ?
He did play casino , he win jakpot or loss big ...
evryone know that ...
thats the way the crafting is , its its not like that because MA did mistake.

The crafting is the way it is , because player like it that way ...
If you dont like , dont click ...
Make som amp , or what ever bp you have that make money , sell your stuff and withdraw money...
Sell part of your total useless skill , since they change nothing to sucess rate ....
And all this fine.

The whole game is that way now ... mining , crafting , hunting ... evrything.

Just start making those dantes again, already! I bet you're thankfull about that price manipulation to +2k (tks @ Akoz)... so u'll be deaf to the pleads anyway as it feets u, right?

u guys are funny....
akoz is the owner of the dante bp. so take it out of ur sysytem please.

I DONT OWN DANTE BP ANYMORE.

Same experience

Hi Dekel,

I had the same experience a couple of days ago,
lots 12k in about 1 hour. 1,5k clicks on full cond with Oreamp 101L.
Before VU i made around 3-4k loss on such a round. yeah yeah im crazy..

Now im not sure what 2 do... i dont dare do any big tt klicks anymore. not after reading your post... i just thought me unlucky .

F'ck it, its just a game! And its not real money.(U cant touch it )

Honestly though i think laying low with crafting might be a good idea right about now .

I just read the first post so I dont know about all the other posts in this thread... maybe im just another ...

Cheers!

Hulle said:

Hi Dekel,

I had the same experience a couple of days ago,
lots 12k in about 1 hour. 1,5k clicks on full cond with Oreamp 101L.
Before VU i made around 3-4k loss on such a round. yeah yeah im crazy..

Now im not sure what 2 do... i dont dare do any big tt klicks anymore. not after reading your post... i just thought me unlucky .

Click to expand...

Looks like another reliable datapoint from a high-rolling crafter.

Statistically you need at least 8 datapoints to make it a trend.... Any others?

Hulle said:

F'ck it, its just a game! And its not real money.(U cant touch it )

Click to expand...

I use the same approach in Casino, it's not real money, just black pieces of plastic Guess it's a natural protection against your rationale which says not to do the clicks/bets

/Slupor

same thing has happened to me a few times, yesterday 18 clicks on a Bull Tac50... 2 successes, lost quite a few ped there if i had gotten roughly 6 back i would have broken even at least i saved peds on residue

Manix6 said:

same thing has happened to me a few times, yesterday 18 clicks on a Bull Tac50... 2 successes, lost quite a few ped there if i had gotten roughly 6 back i would have broken even at least i saved peds on residue

Click to expand...

that is exactly our problem, we calc everything at 1/3, even tho some of these bps we will never click anough to ectually have that kind of success.


also, another thing i wanted to add, some ppl claim to get alot of success in a row, some 10 out of 10, like i got 10 out of 10 none success.

its just not true, i have done my fair bit of crafting and i never in my whole life got more than 5 successes in a row (we are talking high end items), not filters...., also its usually followed by few none success to make it even.

btw hulle low profile for a high end crafter is a problem, cuase if i dont craft alot, i stay behind on the BP looting bizz, which i am allready far behind considering i am not using autoclickers.

According to Bob the Builder, TT cost per click of VRX2000 is 55.26.

For someone who has made as much out of crafting as you have 9 x 55.26 doesnt seem like a lot to lose.

I really dont give a shit that it actually cost you thousands to make those clicks because of markup - thats your choice.

If you pay several hundred peds per zand ingot then of course misses will hurt, but that is no justification whatsoever for MA to change the odds for higher level bps, and even if they did, then the cost of the base materials would just adjust upwards by natural market methods. (Crafters would be willing to pay more for the ingots)

If you havent got the stake for the big-money table, go play the penny slots instead.

Hulle said:

Hi Dekel,

I had the same experience a couple of days ago,
lots 12k in about 1 hour. 1,5k clicks on full cond with Oreamp 101L.
Before VU i made around 3-4k loss on such a round. yeah yeah im crazy..

Now im not sure what 2 do... i dont dare do any big tt klicks anymore. not after reading your post... i just thought me unlucky .

F'ck it, its just a game! And its not real money.(U cant touch it )

Honestly though i think laying low with crafting might be a good idea right about now .

I just read the first post so I dont know about all the other posts in this thread... maybe im just another ...

Cheers!

Click to expand...

I wish you OA-101 crafters would not even think about whining in these threads, you clicking on condition (BIGGEST GAMBLE IN GAME) so you will either win big or pay for someone else to win big.

Everyone your COS is MUCH lower and thats because your gambling on Condition! Put it on Quantity and then complain if you miss on 10+ clicks in a row. We are talking about full quantity clicks to have MAX success rate.

I’m sorry for your lose on this run and all the runs you probably had too.

I agree strongly that is why I never really went into crafting , and some of the new weapons looks really kewl to use and even thought of trying to make a few items but with (L) bps and high cost decided it was not even worth it : (

Kerham said:

P.S.: I also saw it in mining, 1 find in 200 bombs on CND is just not right.

Click to expand...

Etopia said:

The whole game is that way now ... mining , crafting , hunting ... evrything.

Click to expand...

sad but you both are so right
I think MA needs new gambling inspection..

InDaHouse said:

I wish you OA-101 crafters would not even think about whining in these threads, you clicking on condition (BIGGEST GAMBLE IN GAME) so you will either win big or pay for someone else to win big.

Everyone your COS is MUCH lower and thats because your gambling on Condition! Put it on Quantity and then complain if you miss on 10+ clicks in a row. We are talking about full quantity clicks to have MAX success rate.

Click to expand...

Not everyone are oreamp crafters.. if you fail many times even on quantity and need to put huge % for items you want to sell to others in order to recoup at least some of the losses..and if same experience is common for majority of crafters.. it its also screwing other players big time.. hunters and miners

Just wanted to say one more thing, Some crafting has taken a dive much like some mining did this VU. I can get around 50% return crafting high end items, while i can seem to get around 130% tt return crafting rubbish like Basic Sensor.

Something is being balanced, and it may be best if people slow down before they loose it all. It bound to settle eventually. Just some of my data leads me to believe that Residue is not dropping as often as it used to anymore, just in big lumps. not sure how this would effect anything but has anyone else noticed it.

And OA101 crafters on condition... haha, i one did 20 clicks on condition, realised what i was going to be doing with my ped and stopped. You cant complain about potentially loosing K's of peds to hopefully get a 10k ped loot.

Also dekel maybe you want to pm me about some crafting theories i have, maybe we could swap ideas. Even though mine are probably wrong and i dont have 100% concrete data to back it up

I think you guys are all wrong here, this system i random and it should stay that way. You flip a coin and get heads 5 times you don't get a coin with tails on two sides because it seems unfair, do you? In EU the fact that you can fail 9 times in a row shows it is random. If MA said you can't fail 3 times in a row the game is no longer random.

Outman said:

...this system i random and it should stay that way.

Click to expand...

no, no it shouldnt. it should be predicatble within reason. otherwise you'd be better off at the casino where, even though it is random, the odds are better.