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Question: Mouse clicking machine - Just as bad?

Jeepers, it's been a while since I saw a thread like this...

I think people concern themselves with what other people are doing far too much in this game.

Is getting somebody/something else to click for you really such a big deal? Is it any worse than, say, somebody spending an unhealthy number of hours in EU?

There are plenty of people who play EU for far longer than is commonly acceptable, yet nobody seems to mind that they are getting an 'unfair advantage' because they play for too long.

So what's wrong with these automation devices really? The account owner still pays for every single click, even if he or she does do it 24/7 to get ahead.

And, if these people do get ahead, how will this affect your day really? There will be a few more skilled crafters around - hopefully that'll serve to bring the prices of some of the better items down. Maybe they'll have a chance to make the most of their significant investments in the game for the few hours they have free to play.

Isn't it a bit prejudiced that only people who have the time to spare can get ahead in EU?

The people who created bots to make profit IMHO are a different case altogether. They were using hunting bots because the equipment and skills they had almost guaranteed them profit. Whilst I still don't actually see much wrong with this myself, many people would argue that they are exploiting the system.

That's kinda admitting that you're not supposed to profit from hunting/mining/crafting, which I think is a bit hypocritical anyway.

If more people concerned themselves with the enjoyment they can extract from the game, with the amount of money they are prepared to pay regardless of the way others do it, I think they'd have a better time all around.
 
Naomi said:
As long as the sofware you use, does not provide you with any advantage, except having less pain in your fingers, it does not influence the EU software. A click generated by a program, does not give you a higher or a lower chance of succes on your crafting or whatever.
Click to expand...

The chance of success isn't the issue. It's automation while AFK and botting that are the concern.

I don't think they really want people dumping thousands of peds into a crafting machine, setting an autoclicker and walking away any more than they want a bot on CP. However, it seems like the former case is often overlooked and the latter case is harshly punished....:scratch2:
 
Just sent this support case now ;)

Hi,
There has been a great deal of discussion on Entopia Forum of late regarding the statement in the EULA agreement “The Participant also agrees upon not using any Third Party software or equipment that influences the Entropia Universe in any way.”.

Whilst I think I understand autoclicker programmes on my PC are not allowed, I would appreciate some clarity on the following points:

If I use a programmable mouse to click the craft button when crafting, would this breach the EULA?

If I use a machine (such as a lego device) to click the mouse button on the craft button would this breach the EULA?

I am specifically interested in crafting, as it is the only example I can think of where the outcome of the clicks I make are not influenced by any device I use to click the button. For example, clicking 1000 times with a finger will not result in more loot than clicking 1000 times with a lego machine.

I know you guys are busy, but would really appreciate an in-depth reply rather than a copy and paste one ;) .

Many thanks in advance for any information you can supply to clarify this point.

Pinky

p.s Whenever I type a support case, the letters appearing on the screen don’t keep up with what I type… is this just me?
Click to expand...



Will let you know the response ;)
 
Noggin said:
Jeepers, it's been a while since I saw a thread like this...

I think people concern themselves with what other people are doing far too much in this game.

Is getting somebody/something else to click for you really such a big deal? Is it any worse than, say, somebody spending an unhealthy number of hours in EU?

There are plenty of people who play EU for far longer than is commonly acceptable, yet nobody seems to mind that they are getting an 'unfair advantage' because they play for too long.

So what's wrong with these automation devices really? The account owner still pays for every single click, even if he or she does do it 24/7 to get ahead.

And, if these people do get ahead, how will this affect your day really? There will be a few more skilled crafters around - hopefully that'll serve to bring the prices of some of the better items down. Maybe they'll have a chance to make the most of their significant investments in the game for the few hours they have free to play.

Isn't it a bit prejudiced that only people who have the time to spare can get ahead in EU?

The people who created bots to make profit IMHO are a different case altogether. They were using hunting bots because the equipment and skills they had almost guaranteed them profit. Whilst I still don't actually see much wrong with this myself, many people would argue that they are exploiting the system.

That's kinda admitting that you're not supposed to profit from hunting/mining/crafting, which I think is a bit hypocritical anyway.

If more people concerned themselves with the enjoyment they can extract from the game, with the amount of money they are prepared to pay regardless of the way others do it, I think they'd have a better time all around.
Click to expand...

Wow..that's some serious "skew"...you've obviously put soem real throught into this subject...

I think part of the problem with an RCE with "real" money on the line nobody wants anyone doing anything which might get them more than they are allowed or should be getting. MA has put it in the EULA and has locked a few accounts who have violated that (including landowners) and that is good enough for me.

I don't worry about it, however, if I run across soemone who is obviously doing it I "test" it and write support tickets about what I found. I got a multi-account user farming in Bot Valley locked, but that's all I have reported so far...
 
PINKY, I think I know the answer on your support case :laugh: because you wrote it in bad way, your support case is like: "hmm...I wanna have adventage :p"

support case should direct reader to understaing problem of getting disabled after doing 30k clicks/day for few days...and other ilnessess, and support case must contain information that its more healthy to use program to click every 1 second when you are still playing the game (you can chat with others, you can stop crafting/hunting any time and you have control over mause and keyboard) and you are never AFK.

:)
 
Level said:
PINKY, I think I know the answer on your support case :laugh: because you wrote it in bad way, your support case is like: "hmm...I wanna have adventage :p"

support case should direct reader to understaing problem of getting disabled after doing 30k clicks/day for few days...and other ilnessess, and support case must contain information that its more healthy to use program to click every 1 second when you are still playing the game (you can chat with others, you can stop crafting/hunting any time and you have control over mause and keyboard) and you are never AFK.

:)
Click to expand...

Didn't mean to write it in a negative way, sorry (I dont think it is tbh) however, if the reply is negative, i am planning on following it up with "what if i send a GP letter confirming I have RSI or carpal tunnel syndrome" just to see if it makes a difference for people (like Skam) who genuinly do have a problem with clicking like this.
 
The whole problem here stems from the fact that the relevant section of the EULA is so loosely worded that it could mean anything. As a result different people read it, and see it to mean different things.

Windows XP/vista is 3rd party software, so I breach the EULA by using it, but I can't run EU without it, so go figure.

taking that into consideration, what they must mean is what others said.

Influence: a power to affect persons or events.

An auto-clicker, be it a program, drivers, or a lego construction, does not effect or alter the outcome.

What is needed is a definitive reply from MA: auto-clicking is/is not allowed, however it is achieved.

Whats to stop some person building a little robot that's programmed/designed to click the mouse button every 5.3 to 5.8 seconds? This would be hard to prove, as the clicks + internet speeds would make the resultant logs look mostly random?

Bots are a different matter, as they perform complex functions without user intervention, and as such are clearly cheating.
 
its interesting that this discussion always focuses on mouse clicking, when there are keyboard macro apps and harware out there too. as already pointed out here, the space bar can replace the mouse click once the relevent screen is in focus, and thats easily achived with tabbing.

im very glad this has been highlighted as hopfully MA will remove tabbing which means that button can be used for actions, as it is when you change focus to a window you lose that option. (please fix the damn switch-focus-off-chat when getting to a TP while you are at it, if reading MA)
 
Frigid said:
The chance of success isn't the issue. It's automation while AFK and botting that are the concern.

I don't think they really want people dumping thousands of peds into a crafting machine, setting an autoclicker and walking away any more than they want a bot on CP. However, it seems like the former case is often overlooked and the latter case is harshly punished....:scratch2:
Click to expand...

Yeah... But how is it any different from them dumping thousands of peds into the machine and sitting there clicking away?

The outcomes still going to be the same. Except there will be a slow down in the progression of their carpal tunnel syndrome lol.

If everyone was shown how to use an auto-clicker for crafting.. I'm sure there wouldn't be much complaining about it anymore lol.

A lot of people don't like it, because they hate the fact that somebody else can sit and read or something while their items are crafting. While you have to click every few seconds while doing your reading or whatever lol.

It's like the guy who lived next door to the person who invented the car. And had to watch as his neighbor drove to work every morning, while he had to bike.
 
Dorsai said:
Windows XP/vista is 3rd party software, so I breach the EULA by using it, but I can't run EU without it, so go figure.
Click to expand...

Yep... and EU is also third party software. So you are not allowed to run it.... little quibbler... :silly2:
 
GullyFoyle said:
Yep... and EU is also third party software. So you are not allowed to run it.... little quibbler... :silly2:
Click to expand...

Actually no lol..

When a EULA talks of Third Party Software. What it means is software that is not made by their company.
 
PINKY said:
Didn't mean to write it in a negative way, sorry (I dont think it is tbh) however, if the reply is negative, i am planning on following it up with "what if i send a GP letter confirming I have RSI or carpal tunnel syndrome" just to see if it makes a difference for people (like Skam) who genuinly do have a problem with clicking like this.
Click to expand...

This forum has had many a locked thread from this exact discussion, and I have participated in quite a few of them :D. When I used to play a lot, I definitely felt the strain on my clicking finger, that's for sure. I used to have (and well before they added the 'device' clause in the EULA) a mouse clicker device I built myself - not being software I thought it was fine.

But time has gone by, and possibly thousands of people have played EU with either an autoclicker, or some kind of clicking device. Have they got banned? Not to my knowledge.

MA have purposely made the rule ambiguous so it protects their interest as much as possible.

I guess it means that if you use an autoclicker and it affects them in a detrimental way (whatever that may be), they have every right to lock your account. This means that if you use an autoclicker or not, your account is at risk.

What I mean by that is, even if MA have reason to suspect you're using some piece of 3rd party software, how would they know for sure?

They have no judge and jury - they could lock you on a whim if they felt the need, and you'd have no comeback. It's competely within their rights too, even if you're completely innocent.

When we are talking the sums of money that people have in EU, I think more guarantee is needed.

Granted, the likelihood of any of this happening to one of us is unlikely, but it certainly is possible. This is why we have a right to a clear set of rules, which say in no uncertain terms what will constitute a lock/ban.

I think the whole subject is ridiculous - even the people who have bots to play for them. Just as long as it doesn't affect anyone elses gameplay (which is the key thing here), what the heck does it matter. It's not cheating - EU is not a game of skill by any means. If it were, making bots would be considerably more difficult!
 
Noggin said:
This forum has had many a locked thread from this exact discussion, and I have participated in quite a few of them :D. When I used to play a lot, I definitely felt the strain on my clicking finger, that's for sure. I used to have (and well before they added the 'device' clause in the EULA) a mouse clicker device I built myself - not being software I thought it was fine.

But time has gone by, and possibly thousands of people have played EU with either an autoclicker, or some kind of clicking device. Have they got banned? Not to my knowledge.

MA have purposely made the rule ambiguous so it protects their interest as much as possible.

I guess it means that if you use an autoclicker and it affects them in a detrimental way (whatever that may be), they have every right to lock your account. This means that if you use an autoclicker or not, your account is at risk.

What I mean by that is, even if MA have reason to suspect you're using some piece of 3rd party software, how would they know for sure?

They have no judge and jury - they could lock you on a whim if they felt the need, and you'd have no comeback. It's competely within their rights too, even if you're completely innocent.

When we are talking the sums of money that people have in EU, I think more guarantee is needed.

Granted, the likelihood of any of this happening to one of us is unlikely, but it certainly is possible. This is why we have a right to a clear set of rules, which say in no uncertain terms what will constitute a lock/ban.

I think the whole subject is ridiculous - even the people who have bots to play for them. Just as long as it doesn't affect anyone elses gameplay (which is the key thing here), what the heck does it matter. It's not cheating - EU is not a game of skill by any means. If it were, making bots would be considerably more difficult!
Click to expand...

I agree with everything you just said, but I would actually take up crafting if I did'nt have to sit at the pc clicking 10,000 times :)

This thread was just a good excuse to try get an answer from MA, as I would not risk my account with the money i have tied up in there - even if the chance of it being locked is teeny tiny ;)
 
Indeed! Wonder what answer you'll get. There was a thread (couldn't find it in search) in which somebody did ask MA, and they did get an official answer. I can't remember what the answer was, but it was suitably useless.

As you say, the chances are teeny tiny, but MA govern EU a bit like a Sheriff in the wild west, except the sheriff's 100ft tall and bulletproof :wtg:
 
i want one, this site may alreay have a pre built one you can use lol

robot kits
 
iv thought of the idea too :)

i think it would be cool
send me a copy when u make :b

i dont think its agains EULA
cause your not hacking or botting :) your just clicking the mouse over and over again
 
Already built one out of old RC model parts, but the auto clicker is much more easy to setup, lol. If MA ever decided to enforce their own rules, you would see 75% players leave, so don't complain...
 
This is one subject that does raise a few concerns.

For MA to totaly ban anything that could be stated to be an autoclicker or similar, they would have to say that you must use a computer mouse and click the left mouse button with your own finger attached to your body, or words to that effect.

Now this raises another problem. What about laptop users? I used to play EU on my laptop quite often. And I didn't use a mouse but the laptops track pad. Sometimes I used to read a book while letting my finger tap constantly on the trackpad to craft. Is that cheating? A few times when my arm got sore from clicking I put the laptop down the end of my bed and let my toes do the tapping. Is that cheating as well? Can these be argued as auto clickers?

Also another thread was created in a similar vain to this one about using a weight to hold down a key to make the player run into a bunch of mobs to gain skill. Is this against the EULA the same as an auto clicker for crafting? If this was it would be hipocritical because you could just hit the "r" key and let your ava run off into the wild blue yonder while walking away form your PC. So you are using a feature of the game to accomplish a goal that by a similar method (the weight) would be classed as cheating, but it isn't.

I aggree that a batch option would be a great idea for crafting. You could also have a limit on how much is in one batch so that the player would have to come back every few minutes to start a new batch.
 
Jehu said:
You could also have a limit on how much is in one batch so that the player would have to come back every few minutes to start a new batch.
Click to expand...

Thing about that is.. The programs typically used for "auto-clicking" are called Macro programs. Which can easily be programmed to start a new batch after how ever many clicks you want.

So there isn't really a solution to auto-clicking.

And I don't think I'd like a batch crafter either. Because that's just 1 chance of getting a HOF or GLOBAL or new Blueprint. Instead of a chance each time you click craft..
 
Crafting can be boring, without a doubt, but would you really wanna miss a 1000 ped HOF or something while you were away, and all your friends PM'ing you congratulating you? If you were away when that happened, you would miss the rush of hearing the sirens and bells and the clapping wouldn't you?

Just a thought.
 
Wynfairs said:
Crafting can be boring, without a doubt, but would you really wanna miss a 1000 ped HOF or something while you were away, and all your friends PM'ing you congratulating you? If you were away when that happened, you would miss the rush of hearing the sirens and bells and the clapping wouldn't you?

Just a thought.
Click to expand...

Yeah, if your gonna be going off doing other things..

But if your just sitting in your room doing something else, you'll hear it and see it :p.


I'd liken that situation to buying a lottery ticket, and then sitting at the lottery booth until the numbers are released to see if you won.
 
Ok, while I wait for the support reply, Inspired by MA's own server power supply I came up with a totally undetectable auto clicker machine.

The problem with any lego machine, or thing made my any mechanical means is that the click is repeated ever "x" number of seconds, creating a pattern no human could replicate due to the exact timing... MA can pick up the fact the timings are exact and ban you for autoclicking.

So, here it is... breaking all the forum rules... Pinkys patent pending hamster powerred auto clicker! :D

hamster.jpg


The genius of this device is that its powered by nature, and you will never get a sequence of clicks with an exact pattern.

Genius if I do say so myself!


Next i will work on a way to stop the hamster chewing through your mouse cable ;)
 
I think my finger has become an auto-clicker. It just starts clicking when I grab the mouse and I have to use my other hand to get it under control.
 
PINKY said:
Ok, while I wait for the support reply, Inspired by MA's own server power supply I came up with a totally undetectable auto clicker machine.

The problem with any lego machine, or thing made my any mechanical means is that the click is repeated ever "x" number of seconds, creating a pattern no human could replicate due to the exact timing... MA can pick up the fact the timings are exact and ban you for autoclicking.

So, here it is... breaking all the forum rules... Pinkys patent pending hamster powerred auto clicker! :D

hamster.jpg


The genius of this device is that its powered by nature, and you will never get a sequence of clicks with an exact pattern.

Genius if I do say so myself!


Next i will work on a way to stop the hamster chewing through your mouse cable ;)
Click to expand...

LMAO, better patent it before I will do :laugh:

Phil Surtees said:
I think my finger has become an auto-clicker. It just starts clicking when I grab the mouse and I have to use my other hand to get it under control.
Click to expand...
you are not alone..sometimes my finger is "clicking" during typical day when I am not in front of PC...is it illness ?
 
Last edited:
How abt just teaching a monkey...and then just feed it :banana:
 
PINKY said:
Ok, while I wait for the support reply, Inspired by MA's own server power supply I came up with a totally undetectable auto clicker machine.

The problem with any lego machine, or thing made my any mechanical means is that the click is repeated ever "x" number of seconds, creating a pattern no human could replicate due to the exact timing... MA can pick up the fact the timings are exact and ban you for autoclicking.

So, here it is... breaking all the forum rules... Pinkys patent pending hamster powerred auto clicker! :D

hamster.jpg


The genius of this device is that its powered by nature, and you will never get a sequence of clicks with an exact pattern.

Genius if I do say so myself!


Next i will work on a way to stop the hamster chewing through your mouse cable ;)
Click to expand...

Haha, this is either proof of the 'Great Minds Think Alike' theory (or maybe the 'fools seldom differ' one), or you're trying to steal my ideas and pass them off as your own!!

Noggins Wonderful Clicking Invention

I think you'll find that this was posted many moons ago! :scratch2:
 
Noggin said:
Haha, this is either proof of the 'Great Minds Think Alike' theory (or maybe the 'fools seldom differ' one), or you're trying to steal my ideas and pass them off as your own!!

Noggins Wonderful Clicking Invention

I think you'll find that this was posted many moons ago! :scratch2:
Click to expand...

HamsterClicker.JPG


No way!!! Thats so freaky!!!:eek:


Your post was made in April 2006 - same month I joined the forum, so i guess its possible I saw it and it stuck in my mind subconsiously ever since...

But I prefer the great minds think alike excuse! :D
 
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