Does armor increase evade skills? A small test

first, i want to apologize that my test was so small
but i was close to unlocking combat sense, and that would change the average misses and hits, and maybe the skill gain therefore as well

second, i got some weird skill increases while being unarmored, which could make the whole test run useless
i can't explain those myself

third, i suck at statistics and hope i didnt make too many mistakes

maybe i make someone wants to run similar tests himself

either way
i just had ~6000 hits unarmed (i was aiming for 10k) and about 9800 armored

i wondered if evade could be faster increased by wearing armor and made test after

the conditions were quite easy

i went hunting the same mob for a while, first time unarmored, checked evade and counted hits

then i went armored with
bodyguard L + 1D L plates

the L each time to
a)keep the decay the same
b)using to calculate the hits, so i didn't have to count anymore (BG decay was 0.072 per hit, so i just had to calc decay )

i also kept my hunting style similar, by not getting swarmed unnecessary etc etc

i gonna post the figures for calc first, the actual test figures later on

while unarmored, i counted 6033 hits
and came
from 3331.42 evade, tt value 34.96
to 3351.4, tt value 35,38

diff being 19.76 pts and 0.42 tt
both divided by 6033
0,0032 pts and 6.9671E-05 (pretty small tt figure ^^)

for armored and 9862 hits
from 3351.4, tt 35.38
to 3378.45, tt 36.21
diff 27.05, tt 0.83
divided by 9862
0.0027 pts and 8-41614E-05

so, in this test i even got more evade (in pts) from being unarmored, while the tt difference is bigger, although not that much
hence, i can make no conclusion
but doesnt look like armor makes a huge difference at least in lower regions


either way, i decided to post anyhow, maybe someone is interested and makes a better test than me

here the sheet btw
[br]Click to enlarge[/br]

Hmm, well I remember that Marco once said that hunting naked gave some kind of advantage compared to hunting with armour...

the test is very small :S

{edit: ah yes BG merp hit above max every time }
I have found that tracking one skill (in this case,evade) can be unreliable... {edit: and it is hard to track, but not impossible if you know you other skill gains e.g. weapon, fap}

I could try and work out the volume/ped gain if I know what skills you have active related to evader profession.

You gaine .79ped volume(unadjusted) compared to .455 unarmored (unadjusted) in evade. So a conclusion could be that you garnered 1% of your armor decay back in skill. This would be consistent with other data regarding skill gains.

Isnt TT value gained/hit the best indicator as its the only constant?

considering we know the actual point gain decreases as it gets higher.

If so and your test is solid armoured appears to give a little more gain.

hm... if this is correct.... screw armor

Immortal said:

the test is very small :S

With the comparison to TT, you are assuming you got hit for minimum damage each time (0.00001)? Am i correct in this assumption? Also I have found that tracking one skill (in this case,evade) can be unreliable...

I could try and work out the volume/ped gain if I know what skills you have active related to evader profession.

You gaine .79ped volume(unadjusted) compared to .455 unarmored (unadjusted) in evade. So a conclusion could be that you garnered 1% of your armor decay back in skill. This would be consistent with other data regarding skill gains.

Click to expand...

ya
i wish i had thought of it earlier
now that i got combat sense the evade profession gonna increase more i guess, so shifting the average misses/hits more than a few evade pts

i didnt check other skills, since several are skilled with hunting, what i did by the way

i didnt mention, the test was against merps

lowest dam from merp young i ever got unarmored, was 8.6

with BG L+1D L i am at 7.5 protection, so the decay should stay the same
especially for BG, with 1.5 protection

i "unfortunately" got combat sense around 5 days earlier than expected, i am actually quite happy that i switched to the armor that early and didnt wait for more unarmored hits

i would be happy if someone else could maybe get something like that going himself, someone who doesnt have fresh combat sense or evade skills that increase a lot to shift the profession much

jod said:

Isnt TT value gained/hit the best indicator as its the only constant?

considering we know the actual point gain decreases as it gets higher.

If so and your test is solid armoured appears to give a little more gain.

Click to expand...

ya, but the test was too small for that to really make a conclusion

Manique said:

hm... if this is correct.... screw armor

Click to expand...

heh
well on a average "run"

unarmored, i had 9 ped T1 fap decay (say 50-100 pec t15 or sk20 in case i got swarmed)

and with armor ~1 for BG L, ~4.3 for plates (at 124%) and ~2 for fap
so overall ~7.3

thats 2 ped less cost with armor, for, if an increase with armor happened at all, isn't really visible
while you miss out all the paramedic skills

could as well be worth to hunt unarmored

for smaller stuff i do usually
but i have that habit since i skilled biotropy, and to get more heals (faster skilling) i didnt use armor

i think the advantage of being unarmored is being less hit and lower hit,
thats what i always feel like if im hunting naked.

somon90 said:

Hmm, well I remember that Marco once said that hunting naked gave some kind of advantage compared to hunting with armour...

Click to expand...

You don't get armor decay...

hmmmm +rep for this new hypothesis , ofc more data / experiments are necessary. But if i well understand your data in effect there is a difference between armed an un armed, it s little but there is. Now let try this for 1 year.... maybe this difference at the end can result in a nice evade gain . Moreover, if u hunt un armed you must fap youm this mean you will gain other skill. This to come back at the old ditto:
repair armor give you nothing, repair/consume a fap give you skills!!

sorry guys this thread deserve a little bump

Another great test, thankyou Alice! As I said earlier, I will +rep you for this, I just need the 24 hour allocation back Gl, and thankyou again for the test-v interesting!
Frankenberry-NBK Legion

Interesting test. My (completely unscientific tests) indicate that every point of Evade (I am around 600 atm) costs around 1 PED in either armour decay or FAP decay. I've tried this a few times with Tantillion.

Hmm thinking about another way of looking at the data, and other variables.
1. We don't know how many times you weren't hit (not getting hit you can get gains also) And we don't know if those times you weren't hit (and attributed gain) you were given the gain as if unarmored, or given the gain as if armored. i.e. were you attacked 20k times? or 15k? 10k? 50k?

Also you state decay on BG, what about decay on 1D? entropedia sez:
0.396*9862=39.05ped ?

You had .792*10/9 volume gain in evade
0.792*10/9*(67/25)=2.3584ped volume->6% decay went to skills

gain/hit after volume adjustment 0.00023914

without armor: 1.557
volume gain/hit 0.000258044

I bet your fap cost far outweighed the supposed gain here. Again it is hard to tell due to the way skills fluctuate and not all skills tracked etc.

if TE approach were applied, we would look at the amount of dmg absorbed transferring to skills (rather than decay itself)
so 9862 hits=1.5dmg absorbed by BG(L) +6dmg 1D(L)
=73965dmg

->
3.22504E-05 volume gain/dmg absorbed,

Merp doing you 18.94 dmg/pec

davidgr1200 said:

Interesting test. My (completely unscientific tests) indicate that every point of Evade (I am around 600 atm) costs around 1 PED in either armour decay or FAP decay. I've tried this a few times with Tantillion.

Click to expand...

Which works out to ~1% of pedburn goes to skills

Great work done with the test Alice, your patience is close to being nuts here..
But as we discussed yesterday when you were summing up the data, the figures are maybe too small to come to any relevant conclusion. I am not trying to say your test was useless, I know you have invested a lot of time and hard work there. Just that you maybe need some more help from others willing to extend your research.
Also it seems there are a larger number of variables that should be taken into account, many of them I didnt know about. Immortal pointed out a few, maybe there are more. Working with higher numbers -say 100k hits, or 100k attacks, out of which some are landing on the target, some dont (but would be a real pain to count that especially when in the unarmored part of the test)- could end in being easier to find out how the system is working and if there is any difference in skill gains. I just doubt there is anyone else willing to take up on that task and keep accurate records of everything.

Immortal said:

Hmm thinking about another way of looking at the data, and other variables.
1. We don't know how many times you weren't hit (not getting hit you can get gains also) And we don't know if those times you weren't hit (and attributed gain) you were given the gain as if unarmored, or given the gain as if armored. i.e. were you attacked 20k times? or 15k? 10k? 50k?

Click to expand...

that is correct, but i simply assumed that the average % of hits and misses stays the same, since the evader profession didn't move that much
i doubt at lvl 22 evader (or 23, dunno, havent checked lately), that a few pts i got in the related skills will change the hit ability of mobs that dramatically

considering that i got during "a run", where i kept the conditions the same on weapon decay used (200 ped decay on embra) about 1400 hits,
without 1200 or 1600 hits, likely even less fluctuation, i think the assumption was acceptable

it could ofc be that you get more evade gain if that evade gain comes during a "miss" of the mob, instead of a "hit"
although that would be quite easy to test, with or without combat sense
i might do that

then it could also be that evade gain is depending on damage you get, during a hit then ofc
thats harder to test, since evade takes a while
maybe all kind of damage is counted you will get and you get evade after, say, 5000 damage points taken
maybe even after damage you would have got, so the damage you had got during evades would count as well
say, you would get 100 hits with 10 damage each but the mob misses 50 hits also with 10

would just the 1000 count in this case or the 1500?


most of that doesn't matter in the long run though, since that all evens out
not in my short test ofc, i would be happier with 20k hits unarmored and 20k armored as well, or more hits
i just got the idea too late and that many hits had likely changed the HA of mobs way more than a shorther run

when i reach 4000 combat sense i might make a new one

edit
this will be in the distribution thread i have as well btw

overall decay on the 1D plates i can deliver too, either exact
decay on
run 1 4,30967
run2 4,47
run3 AND 4 8,35
run5 4,34

just run 6 is missing, but can be calculated, i didn't use the plates since
i guess if you count with 4.3 ped decay you wont be that far off

Thanks for reporting this test. I've never noticed a difference in Evade gains while armored or unarmored and really can't see why anyone would expect there to be. I feel your test supports that.

If all you need is to keep track of hits (instead of attacks), you can use that hit/damage parser witte made to keep track for you so you don't have to count them yourself.

Oh, and gratz on combat sense.