FYI: Mindark: Not the Enemy, not your friend either.

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ffs doom+last knight edit your posts threads can't maintain open accusation of scamming else they get locked/deleted

FFS?! FFS?! I havn't direclty accused anyone, and even if you have put 1 and 1 together (=plus 2), why would you allow ANYONE to get away with such bullshit? I'm sure there's a 'reasonable doubt' or that there's an explainaition to all this, if so, let HIM explain it. I've never come out to say "so and so" was to blame, just that someone else has alluded to someone I think is the culprit. Even so, let the public decide, not a communist type regime here on EF.
 
Hop can file a police case with both UK & Swedish authorities. The risk is that the legal costs for lawyers etc & time spend will exceed the 8K US$.

Good luck Hopkirk!

True. But if he would take the case to court and win, he could then sue for legal fees thus not having to pay a cent.
 
Late answer, I know... but if your friend would have waited until he got back an answer from MA support, they would have told him that they would NOT help him in case of scam.

So your friend was just to greedy.
 
...
So Hopkirk handed over the 80K peds. After which the phone was hung up, the MSN closed and X logged off.
And Hopkirk knew he'd been had. A classic scam. But here's the twist to the story. Hopkirk is no noob.
...
I'm interested in what the community thinks of this.


I don't know this Hopkirk and I wish he gets his PEDs back.
:(


But please don't state "Hopkirk is no noob". If this guy really made this noob mistake, he is an uber-noob . :laugh:
 
FFS?! FFS?! I havn't direclty accused anyone, and even if you have put 1 and 1 together (=plus 2), why would you allow ANYONE to get away with such bullshit? I'm sure there's a 'reasonable doubt' or that there's an explainaition to all this, if so, let HIM explain it. I've never come out to say "so and so" was to blame, just that someone else has alluded to someone I think is the culprit. Even so, let the public decide, not a communist type regime here on EF.

Do you want to get banned? i don't make the forum rules you know. I have to adhere to them (including the few you just broke again) and I know what happens to people who don't <edited by Immortal> (or similar)
Prediction: this thread is going to vanish, Mindbuster or 711 quotes rule XXX and you "not allowed to accuse of scamming" and then tomorrow it's been forgotten about, give or take a few tempbans here or there.
 
Mindark: Not my enemy, not my friend either.
 
But please don't state "Hopkirk is no noob". If this guy really made this noob mistake, he is an uber-noob . :laugh:

At the higher level of play those figures are exchanged much easier than you'd think.
I know that you would never give 80k ped into the hands of someone you dont really know, but that 80k mean alot less for him than it does for you.
If you play at his level its easier to make mistakes really.
Hopkirk is not a noob, but he did make the mistake of falling for a pretty easy scam which was clearly not the smartest thing...

As for the insurance of MA support.
I'd like to see the supportcase in question, cause i can't believe they told him he would have any kind of insurance in this case.
(didnt read all the pages so excuse me if it's already been posted)
 
uber item, uber money, uber scam, uber stupidity is all to say

btw, can i call one of you, tell you i've been in game for 3 years now and ask you for 8k dollars? i think not...
 
if you stick your finger in this light socket ill give you 5 bucks
ZAP!!!
oh i lied
wait if i give you 5 more dollars will you do it again?
ZAP!!!!
im sure there are some folks at MA shaking their heads, but my god......
if i was them id shake my head too
im feelin bad for hop but only just a bit
HOWEVER!
this unnamed avatar should get the perma ban
lol i bet a buck hes not comin back tho, at least not as himself
:scratch2::scratch2::scratch2:
 
Do you want to get banned? i don't make the forum rules you know. I have to adhere to them (including the few you just broke again) and I know what happens to people who don't <edited by Immortal> (or similar)
Prediction: this thread is going to vanish, Mindbuster or 711 quotes rule XXX and you "not allowed to accuse of scamming" and then tomorrow it's been forgotten about, give or take a few tempbans here or there.

If one post just do say something like that , usual post is delette , end of story ...
Problem is people come to whine why post is delette , or make a thread , with the name in big ....so they get ban ...
Thread get lock if the whole thread go a wrong way ...
Also , you could have warm the person though pm , and avoid him to get noticed...If you soo afraid the thread get lock , why you keep pointing to 1 post in middle of 15 page thread...

As for the whole it seems to be very messy ...
the "scammer" seems to be an avatar that been sold and borowed here or there.
That avatar has got som scam story allready ...
and he come with a very smelly story ...

I am sorry for the loss... but sadly ,in our world , there is som ass around ...

As for all those that whine for MA action ... i would be happy , if they stop to just whine , think a bit , and tell us how to manage such a case when you are in MA shoes...
I mean , how MA can solve such problem , and not create new problem or scam...
Can someone , of those so clever player that know evrything , tell me , how MA is suposed to behave ...
And i want a way , where my acount , dont risk anything like false acusation...
Seems to me , this world become " first that speak is the one right"...
 
I'm interested in what the community thinks of this.

I am not the community but what I learned from MindArk is, you are alone when it comes to such issues and they will NEVER help their "customers" except for sharing the FAQ and official help pages etc. and the reminder: All trades are final!

I like Hopkirck from what I remember of him and I sort of remember he has a high end equipment, this makes me somehow think is is a smart guy. This is sort of exactly the point that makes me wonder.

Why didn't he wait for a confirmation of MA that they back him up in such a issue? On the other hand, he is not part of any ingame "police" that has special rights or whatever. Without such rights and MA backing me up in such a deal (and I mean really backing me up, not the usual Support default statements) I would never hand out money to someoneto "catch" him and out him as a scammer.

Sorry to say, but this was very stupid and someone with his reputation should know better.

Maybe MA will start thinking of this policy if WIRED Magazine or other News-Sites report about such scams and show the world not everything is so "damn fancy"in this universe.

Until then everyone should know that he/she will be pretty much alone on the field.

I fell sorry for Lars, but really, this was very naiv of him.
 
I need to respond to something.

Edit
Apparently my thread got merged with this one. :(

Sorry for off topic.
/edit

Let me start out with a couple scenarios:

Scenario 1:
You want to buy a truck. You go in to the dealership, hand over a down payment and sign a contract agreeing to make specific recurring payments. You make those payments for some time, and then stop. The bank that now owns your contract, repossesses your shiny new truck.

Do you whine that they took "YOUR" truck or about not getting your money back?

Scenario 2:
You want to rent a truck. Again, you go into a dealership, hand over a security deposit and sign a contract agreeing to make specific recurring payments. You make those payments for some time, and then stop. The dealership sends someone to retrieve their property.

Again, do you whine that they took "YOUR" truck or about not getting your money back?

WTF am I talking about, you ask? In the thread about how Hopkirk lost a significant amount of money in a scam this was posted:

Why him not me - well - I was scammed for 60,000 - I would support anyone who has been scammed by professional scammers... they should not be allowed to play here.........

A scam is not really very difficult to put right by MA - they just fix it - they can stop withdrawals - they can halt an account - track it all - and so they should - if they wanna convince people to add money to the game - because if they don't - your throwing money into a system that no insurance & that puts anyone with money off - eBay has insurance - pay pal has insurance ---

All deals are not final - if one person is deliberately deceiving another to simple scam and profit - there is a difference between a Normal trade and a trade that is meant to scam another person.

So stick your all trades are final up your arse - as that just what the scammer wants to hear- laughs in our faces........

I wonder is the person was a member of the soc that the member was in, that, I was scammed off by 60,000......... Guess what they all said - all deals are final - Bunch of low down twats...

MoonFish

Moonfish claims to have been scammed for 60k.

'K, I'm not sure which scenario above applies, but it was one or the other. Moon was either buying or renting a hanger from my old mentor, and the general of my SoC at the time. The two of them had agreed on a certain price and partial payment was made. The rest of the price was NEVER paid, and my mentor eventually repossessed the hanger due to lack of payment.

This is a scam how?

Enough is enough, Moon. You failed to live up to your end of the bargain, and you lost out on an opportunity to own a hanger. You even got the peds you initially paid returned to you. You didn't lose 60k peds, you lost a hanger that wasn't even yours to begin with yet. Your decision not to finish the deal.

The point I REALLY needed to respond to was the intimation that the SoC as a whole was complicit in this deal and that it would harbour known scammers!

If a person was so inclined, they would be able to research Moon's past posts, and would find that the SoC that is being referred to is Mann MPH Killers, the SoC of which I am currently General. I could not sit back and allow my SoC to be slandered in this way.

We, Mann MPH Killers, are an Honorable Society.

We have a strict ANTI scamming policy and if caught doing so ANY member can and WILL be booted! I personally take the reputation of my society very seriously, and will not accept actions that will negatively affect it!

I do not understand why you feel it necessary to slander my Society, Moon, but I will here and now publicly ask you to stop.

You were NOT scammed.

MMK does not in any way support or harbour known scammers.

Enough is enough. Move on and grow up.
 
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One of the main problems (not including the all trades are final and should have known better) is the fact that Hopkirk has knowingly given out his User/Password to other people in EU prior to this problem. Who knows if this is THE Hopkirk? I do like THE Hopkirk, but we can't know for sure this is him unless someone has actually chatted with him lately and can confirm it is the same voice as before.
Hopkirk and I spoke (TS) and chatted. He asked me to write the post as I seem to have aquired a bit of a rep for writing posts. There is no doubt this is really Hopkirk.

Worst part about this is that the player X tried a similar scam on me involving an imp 2870 pistol. I didn't think anything of it at the time and actually somewhat believed he needed the peds for removal from the bank, but I still didn't risk it as X had a checkered past (something involving Angel armor).
Another top10 soc member has a story to tell about the same player also. I am hoping he will come forward soon.
 
As for all those that whine for MA action ... i would be happy , if they stop to just whine , think a bit , and tell us how to manage such a case when you are in MA shoes...
I mean , how MA can solve such problem , and not create new problem or scam...
Can someone , of those so clever player that know evrything , tell me , how MA is suposed to behave ...
And i want a way , where my acount , dont risk anything like false acusation...
Seems to me , this world become " first that speak is the one right"...

Exactly. What if Hopkirk was the actual scammer, and he was selling the 80k through paypal or bank transfer. The other party paid for the PEDs, the trade happened ingame; and then Hopkirk gets the 80k back cos he claimed the other person was scamming him.

There are so many possible scenarios. It's best that MA just doesn't get involved, and people are way way more careful.

That said, this really sucks :/
 
After thinking about this a bit... i really kinda pisses me off you would even hint that MA is somehow in the wrong in anyway.. or even mention them in this post.. Its low, lowlife low...

i have had several problems once my 104 amp i just repaired just disappeared from my inventory, i wrote them and they got it back to me, once i got a hof and couldnt pump it and i wrote them a message and at the end i said i know about this bug but it upsets me, and didnt even ask for the hof... i consdiered it a loss, and never even checked for a reply and sure enough when the update came, bingo the hof i lost appeared in my inventory.. MA is great, and if they are wrong they will fix it, no doubt in my mind... but MA had nothing to do with this whatsoever... Ma is not your dam mother.... your an adult and so is the guy who got ripped... he gambled that he could trust that guy and he lost... thats just the nature of gambling.... Adults are supposed to be able to live with their mistakes.. some adults anyway
 
mindark fault at least 50%

i understand hop was to trusty and gave away peds to a complete stranger but my question here is why did not mindark locked that <mention of name> ava since was previosly known as scammer ...
 
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For the record...

I was asked to post this by Hopkirk and Gunzy, leader of Deja-Vu. I will not go into actual content of chatlogs, communications between Hopkirk and MA, Hopkirk and X, or whatever, since I am simply nor privy to those.
I can vouch for Hopkirk's identity. Everything I wrote here is what he told me. Nothing more, nothing less. I will speak to him again tonight, and ask him if he feels like answering any questions.

Please think and say what you want but do NOT violate forum rules. I want this thread to run its natural course, and everyone to have their say. Naming names will make that impossible. So please respect EF rules.
Thank you.
 
MA's fault???

Been thinking this over.

A) The Scammer is well known for his shady past..
B) Hopkirk is an adult, knowing the game, knowing the risks and knowing that the scammer has a shady past.
C) Hop agreed on giving out the 80K ped. It was HIS free will. It was HIS responsability. It Was HIS decsision. It was HE HIMSELF who put 80K in a trade window and pressed 'agree'.
D) In an attemt to get a back-up he sends a support case.. but does not await the answer?

Ok, it sucks monkeyballs to loose a neat amount of ped because of such a low life ****off bastard of a scammer. But I fail to understand what MA has to do with it..????

The only thing MA could have done, is banning the "shady ava" in the past. But that does not solve such problems in general (new ****ups will always accur).

I run a business IRL, and I'm NOT friends with my customers. They are my customers and not my mates. You need to keep a professional distance.

So, MA not your friend? ofc not. They provide you a service.
Is your internet provider your friend? Is your electricity provider your friend? Is your local supermarket your friend?

I hope the scammer gets banned. And things will settle.

Cheerio.
BB
 
Mods Note:

Please do not mention the ingame name of the accused in this thread as it will only lead me to having to delete parts or full post (aka more work for skammie, and I have quite alot of work on my hands already!) Thank you.
 
Exactly. What if Hopkirk was the actual scammer, and he was selling the 80k through paypal or bank transfer. The other party paid for the PEDs, the trade happened ingame; and then Hopkirk gets the 80k back cos he claimed the other person was scamming him.

There are so many possible scenarios. It's best that MA just doesn't get involved, and people are way way more careful.

That said, this really sucks :/
Aye. Because a RL transaction can be paid for in PEDs if both parties agree to it and MA's logs can only show what was said and done ingame. Hell, you could e-mail someone a script to type into chat just to make it look really good!
As Plato said so many years ago:
"Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly,
while bad people will find a way around the laws." - Plato (427-347 B.C.)
and the lack of any realistic deterrent lets people show their true nature here. Given that freedom some float and some sink.
 
Please do not mention the ingame name of the accused in this thread ...

well, everybody knows about whom we are talking about, just look at "other forums", it is now a common knowledge

btw, it is a very very sad story :mad: not much can be done now but I hope all will solve in good way, I hope ...

such "storys" should be tagged as sticky or whatever as a sign to let new ppl know of potential danger and problems, we all must lear our lessons

sad, sad, sad... MA really should change a bit their "all trades are final" policy
 
OMFG, what a mess :eek: :( :scratch2:
 
id like to say a fiew words about this in my perspective...... i see evryones point how this was wery stupid and why deal with a know scammer, fact is hopkirk was gone from game when all the scamming from this avatar accoured all the heat on him hade died down so when hopkirk talked to this guy he just knew him as the trader he was when he set up deals for people and took a % of deals that was successfull. also u all have to remeber this is not just some guy this guy has gotten a full angel set of a guy ones and alot of skills of a wery old player that definetly is no noob and now this 80k scam of hopkirk. Hopkirk has contact police and i think he even emailed swedish police i havent talked to him today, anyway il ask him to clearify some of the questions if he can and we will have to see how this ends. But even how stupid u all think this trade was its still theft. Because hopkirk gave him the money in good faith and after alot of convincing for an item that was said to be in bank

Pe@ce out Gunz
 
Why did he not asked for collateral ........ sry but i just dont get it ... how can an old player just forgets one of the basic rules of trading :X ?

Did he get a response from MA to the original mail (the warning mail) ?
 
id like to say a fiew words about this in my perspective...... i see evryones point how this was wery stupid and why deal with a know scammer, fact is hopkirk was gone from game when all the scamming from this avatar accoured all the heat on him hade died down so when hopkirk talked to this guy he just knew him as the trader he was when he set up deals for people and took a % of deals that was successfull. also u all have to remeber this is not just some guy this guy has gotten a full angel set of a guy ones and alot of skills of a wery old player that definetly is no noob and now this 80k scam of hopkirk. Hopkirk has contact police and i think he even emailed swedish police i havent talked to him today, anyway il ask him to clearify some of the questions if he can and we will have to see how this ends. But even how stupid u all think this trade was its still theft. Because hopkirk gave him the money in good faith and after alot of convincing for an item that was said to be in bank

Pe@ce out Gunz



Can you please rewrite your post with commas, dots, well with human sentences...
I can't read this one. :(
 
What was the agreed price for the FAP? Please tell us this is not a classic example of "If it's looks to good to be true.." :rolleyes:

What can one say. I think this highlights the fact that RCE universes (especially ones of EU's magnitude) should not exist unless proper governance is established.

It's important that thieves (and that is what they are) at least have a chance of being caught. Thus far, they can get away with it with absolutely no fear of the law catching up with them.

It's wrong to steal, but in the context in which MA set us, it's actually not against any 'law' at all.

People trade property worth tens of thousands all the time, yet have no protection whatsoever. I think it's about time that changed. I also think it's about time MA took some more responsibility.

Thefts of thousands of dollars cannot and must not go unpunished - what's that telling the world otherwise?

I'll remain confident that Mindark will (or would) act on what the authorities tell them to do. Mindark as a private instance has no right to judge in any legal matters, so they can't give the money back. They are in their full right to chuck out anyone from their service for no reason, though, so locking the offenders account wouldn't be a problem. (Only they might have to let him withdraw the money, which I guess is up for debate. :()

Except if if you're Jeff.
...
See the answer to Etopia.

It's a different matter when Mindark is not a third party. With Jeff they were involved themselves and showed some goodwill. That they apparently give special treatment does not help, though.
 
For Executor...

id like to say a fiew words about this in my perspective...... i see evryones point how this was wery stupid and why deal with a know scammer, fact is hopkirk was gone from game when all the scamming from this avatar accoured all the heat on him hade died down so when hopkirk talked to this guy he just knew him as the trader he was when he set up deals for people and took a % of deals that was successfull. also u all have to remeber this is not just some guy this guy has gotten a full angel set of a guy ones and alot of skills of a wery old player that definetly is no noob and now this 80k scam of hopkirk. Hopkirk has contact police and i think he even emailed swedish police i havent talked to him today, anyway il ask him to clearify some of the questions if he can and we will have to see how this ends. But even how stupid u all think this trade was its still theft. Because hopkirk gave him the money in good faith and after alot of convincing for an item that was said to be in bank

Pe@ce out Gunz
What's the real problem?
 
I share the opinion its the avatars own fault. MA should not intervene, as that will enable a whole new array of possibilities to scam.

One thing I can think of is that MA could make a contract system ingame. I am not sure if MA should enforce these contracts, but at least I would make legal investigations a hell lot easier.
 
I think what gunzy is trying to say is:

I'd like to say a few words about this from my perspective...... I see everyone's point how this was very stupid and why deal with a known scammer? The fact is, Hopkirk was gone from game when all the scamming from this avatar occured, all the heat on him had died down. So when Hopkirk talked to this guy he just knew him as the trader he was when he set up deals for people and took a % of deals that were successfull. Also you all have to remember this is not just some guy. This guy has gotten a full angel set off a guy once and a lot off skills a very old player that definitely is no noob - and now this 80k scam of Hopkirk. Hopkirk has contacted the Police - I think he even emailed swedish police, I haven't talked to him today. Anyway I'll ask him to clarify some of the questions if he can and we will have to see how this ends. But no matter how stupid you all think this trade was its still theft. Because Hopkirk gave him the money in good faith and after a lot of convincing for an item that was said to be in the bank.

Pe@ce out Gunz
The version I rewrote as a native English speaker isn't so different.
If you have any problem with my use of punctuation please let me know.
Otherwise please stay on topic.
 
Can you please rewrite your post with commas, dots, well with human sentences...
I can't read this one. :(


Sorry for offtopic but wtf :0 i dont want to met you irl :D you must be an horrible !#%(@#
 
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