First planet company to take over planet calypso

The economy rollercoaster takes a dive and everyone claims they saw it coming, it was inevitable, load of science crap talk and jargon - it will never go up again, we're all dooomed. Right. :wtg:

lol yeah,

PS any news on that press release
 
Action required, but slow and thoughtful

Do you appease 10% of your populous as leader of your economy/country whom can afford such things and ignore the rest of which then you find your population diminishing as they migrate to new countries and economies looking for new opportunities ?

Or you appease the other 90% also and bring things into the reach of 90+ % of your economy (I should say 100%, but in every economy there are those who are reliant upon others, ie. Sweaters, fruit, dung, stone collectors);
Affordability isn't a digital measure, with uber on one side and 90% classed as not uber on the other. As a mid-level player you can afford a hell of a lot more than some day old newb, and yet there are many complicated division within each group, not clearly defineable by time played or free cash.

If you then decide to make everything affordable, then you'll very quickly find resellers buy the whole damn lot up, creating a real problem. Here in the UK, you now have the pleasure of renting a home and paying virtually the same amount of money per month as if you mortage the property. This is because they make a house cheapper with special initiatives to lower cost to purchase, but 'resellers' aka buy-to-let obtain the housing stock, result = still just as messed up, but now we have even higher demand.


With this growth your GDP output can increase, hence any additional uber items as you put it will be continually consumed by the growing economy.
Nice high-school geography lesson, but the economy of calypso is not a model that can be directly equated with a country of the real world. We don't (curently) have any external trading, we don't have (anymore) a stock market, we don't have employment or rival companies that operate as a business unit to generate wealth. Simply put, GDP is a great measure, but it's not relevant here; GDP itself doen't mean good or bad for anyone or anything, it's not a direct measure of anything other than total income or total spend. It infers that an economy is doing well or not, and the % involved are then used as a ratio to give a guide to the severity of any expected impact.

This is where MindArk up until this point (Hopefully a stop is put to it soon) has lacked in properly leading/guiding an economy in-directly and allowed, the dwellers upon Calypso, being left to their own devices (human apsirations) for the most part to trash that economy as it continues to decline.
When baking a cake, if you open the oven every 5mins you're not likely to get a good result; Likewise sometimes you need to know when not to interfere in real world models. I read complaints about the rising economy, but I read in the next line complaints about market falling. This is a real world model, people see benefit in being here, they invest. People see less benefit that money is worth in pocket, they take money elsewhere. These cause natural fluctuations in market. With the recent rl economic issues effecting Calypso, and the resultant reduction in spending, coupled with some people chosing to move some money out, we see a reduction in the value of many items. So now is the time to be watching the market and gaining tools to take your game forward. This action is the stabalizer, and will kick-in when the value drops enough that the benefit to stay increasingly outweighs the benefit to take some/all peds out. But it's so important to remember this is a gradient. For some people the leave/reduce spent point has not been reached, for others the buy-in point hasn't been reached.

There would be no issue in dropping 1 unlimited item for every 2500 (L) that drop vs the current estimated 1 unlimited for every 10,000 or more (L)s that currently drop.
The current drop of L weapons is designed to promote their use, provide something other than oils in loot, and provide a stabalizing effect on the L item prices. Increasing UL drops reverses this process and drops of UL SIB weapons is very dangerous to the economy and L item usage. Again I think the model your proposing is not thought through fully. The 1:10,000 ratio sounds great, but consider that the tt or near L weapons make up the bulk of drops and will simply be tt'd, thus they'll play little or no part in slowing down inflation, every quicker the point will be reached where a sizeable proportion of the population have access to weapons that preclude the use of L entirely. Then MA's only action left to control economy is to nerf everyone, thus it'll be more difficult to skill, more expensive to play per hour, loot will be lower - all so we can move towards the inevitable point where a significant proportion of the population have UL weapons....

The same thing to be applied with an adequate ratio in crafting, which will push up the demand for gathered resources (hence their value) but in turn providing a reasonable and sensible offset to have a greater chance in having UnLimited recipes drop (1 click only) for all (L) based consumable crafted items.
Again, I can see the first move being played out in your mind, but I don't think your looking several moves on. Items have value, because demand outstrips supply. Demand outstips supply, because either the supply is low or the demand is high. If the supply is increased without a relative increase in demand the prices will fall though the floor. We have people who skill up in certain areas to do well and become the icons of their speciality or mix; People wont bother if their isn't sufficient reward, thus we could really mess up the future growth of Calypso with a terrible, yet innocent policy change as raising drop-rate on BP's.

Both restricting hunters to 1 successful drop, and crafters, 1 successful combine of an UnL recipe per X amount of time (eg. 24 months), whilst also limiting recipe bp drops of a crafted UnLimited item to 2 or 3 within this same time period, hence promoting activity diversity, keeping opportunities open for all and to stop any excessive devaluation from farming of UnLimited items by any one participant.[/I][/U]
If the solution was simple, it would have been implemented. Limiting over time is terribly restrictive, durring the recent competion we saw ppl invalidating entry by chosing to play because they were bored and cared less about competition than restricting their game time to perscribed levels. Apart from generating a sense of disapointment when you get a big hit, with the idea that you'll now be certified bad loots for X time, you're only pushing the lawless mind to actions such as multi-accounts. Also we generate lots of paper-doll skilled avatars, as we're pushed from skill area to skill area, avoiding looting restrictions. This ruins not only diversity and player enjoyment, but destroys the opportunity for business interests and the belief that 1 person can work to better themselves. Without this belief system, we'll lose untold amount of investment.

People are so fed up with, the carrot on the stick, I will never get one of those routine, EU is gambling, it is like playing lotto ... and the rest of testimonies people put forward about Entropia Universe.
:scratch2: I think what you mean is to move the carrot nearer the donkey ;)
The carrot metaphor represents postive desire, motived by self will. With a carrot further away or not present, the donkey won't have any motivator left accept the stick.

Even those who have received nice drops have been here forever in a day, and after the fact are in such a mindset upto the point it does happen to them.
:laugh: 6yrs and I'm still waiting, however short of 100k I'm not going to run naked though the streets screaming with joy. So your point is true. Yes I'm jaded with my age here. But I don't see how increasing the big loot frequency will help this, instead it hurts everyone else more. I'd sooner have better economy than massive one-off hit, I'd rather have a smile on my face the majority of hunts, than 1 heart attack.

It might be small, but they all add up to a consensus, which when such things start to appear on premium industry websites, deters future growth and development of MindArk's business;
Sure bad-press is bad press, but... advertising is always good :D
Some people join just to find out if it really is that bad, alot of people will investigate and be drawn-in with the quick logic - "if it's so bad, why is anyone playing".

Please don't take this as a personal attack, you've just been kind enough to cover a wealth of ideas in your prolifically long post that I desired to balance out. Sure I appear to have 'fought the MA side' here, but I'm no brown-noser, I've just got different priorities and see a different set of dangers in getting their.

My overriding concerns are the false representation of the player base (even though this itself has good and bad points ingame and investment wise for MA), as I believe that the falsely inflated population, derived though the white-lie of created accounts = active accounts, is actually causing people to think that Entropia isn't a budding place to get in and start investing. When in actuality we are at the very start of a time where people really can enter Calypso with serious investment and a real chance to make it big. Really it's like turning 'The American Dream' sour by saying we've already peaked, and from here on in it's only going down hill.

Also of serious concern is the awful ped lock-in required for so many items in the Entropia Universe, items that really can't justify it in any way. I've made many masks, I've listed them in my shop, I've advertised in-game for sales at 10%. Great deal, but no sales what-so-ever. I tailor (Unlocked Fashion Design :D) many items, items with 40, 50, 80 and more ped locked into tt. These don't sell, people simply don't have a taste en-masse for in-game clothing that costs as much as a pair of basic jeans in real life (or jeans in-game that cost as much as much as my Levi's :rolleyes:). I'll get though hundreads of k (or k of k :silly2:) in tailoring res to make full tt item that will look good with colour and texture, only for it to sit undesired on a shelf.

We need arses, lots of arses, sat at computer, logged into Entropia. The current ability to manufacture goods outstrips the demand by so damn much, it's crazy. The price won't come down any further for alot of items, the floor is the cost of materials and efficiency, with the hugely false raised floor of massive tt values and 90% condition limits.
 
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Affordability isn't a digital measure, with uber on one side and 90% classed as not uber on the other.

Not sure why your making this division, Affordability is in reference to what people can afford to deposit from the real world as USD into the platform and has no bearing on what level of development they are upto in Entropia.

As a mid-level player you can afford a hell of a lot more than some day old newb, and yet there are many complicated division within each group, not clearly defineable by time played or free cash.

Refer to above, you make the assumption people in the real world are well off at this point. I am a mid level player buying mid level items 1k USD (1.5k AUD) - 2.5k USD (3.5k AUD) and these prices are still way out of context for someone who has money saved up to make such purchases. 2yrs ago most of these items were 500 to 1k USD or less.

Again this needs to be brought back into context with what people in the real world can afford, across the world in both the lower and mid classes of society. Placing items outside the reach purchase wise leads to mass demotivation.

That being one point, the other is the chance to loot such items today is pretty much nil, no matter how much time, effort and money you put into it. This is pretty much being a fact of the current day workings of Entropia at this point in time leads to further demotivation and degrunted participants;

Whom for those who are foolish enough to give it a shot, eventually leaving to a trail of carnage and bad reputation in the real world.

If you then decide to make everything affordable, then you'll very quickly find resellers buy the whole damn lot up, creating a real problem.

Resellers are found everywhere in all economies, yes they are a problem, but they are factored into the drop rate ratio, hence why things need ot be monitored. Correctly adjusting the drop rate ratio, can allow for resellers to buy up to the point that their buying and reselling values are kept within an affordable tolerance range. This is all part of economic management. (Something we have not seen managed properly here in Entropia to date)

Here in the UK, you now have the pleasure of renting a home and paying virtually the same amount of money per month as if you mortage the property. This is because they make a house cheapper with special initiatives to lower cost to purchase, but 'resellers' aka buy-to-let obtain the housing stock, result = still just as messed up, but now we have even higher demand.

Same case in a lot of the parts of the world, except the US which has been horribly slow to move in such matters under the Bush administration :laugh:.

Again you need money to be able to do this, most do not, so your approach is very one sided. I am keeping in context the affordability of an entire economy at all levels whilst doing my best to address the negative consensus that is starting to build in the real about Entropia (A consensus in the negative is very hard to shake and can take years of proven positives to come out of), not just focusing on my own circumstances or those of minority groups within an economy, such as resellers.


Nice high-school geography lesson, but the economy of calypso is not a model that can be directly equated with a country of the real world. We don't (curently) have any external trading, we don't have (anymore) a stock market, we don't have employment or rival companies that operate as a business unit to generate wealth. Simply put, GDP is a great measure, but it's not relevant here; GDP itself doen't mean good or bad for anyone or anything, it's not a direct measure of anything other than total income or total spend. It infers that an economy is doing well or not, and the % involved are then used as a ratio to give a guide to the severity of any expected impact.

It was more to keep things simple for people :)

Same concept applies within an isolated economy. If you produce or harvest more resource than is consumed, the produced end products or resource either go to waste, or their values are trashed in an attempt to move them.

MA has already tried the backburner approach by reducing loot output of each participant which starts to end up in revolt of people complaining about loot (Backburner approach being the additional PED still owed to you is recorded in your accounting records being builtup)

This is then further compounded later on when this PED needs to be eventually released back to the particiapnt, in what we saw as, 'Are daily ATHs good for the economy' (Thread here on EF). So a second lot of people become demotivated over this occuring. (Double sword, both edges MindArk did not fair so well from this time around)

This is where continued growth is required to continually increase and build the economy, as people level up, the economy need to grow also as at higher levels the average participant harvests/produces a lot more (Higher level of PED weapon output decay/mining AMPs/Crafting higher end items with greater PED value)

Yes at this point we do not have external trading, we may at some point, but my demonstration is an isolated one, interested only in FPC's development & growth.

Nice high-school geography lesson, but the economy of calypso is not a model that can be directly equated with a country of the real world. We don't (curently) have any external trading

As a secondary response to the above quoted and bolded;

Of course we do, every participant in Entropia is an external trading partner in their willingness to deposit financial equity into the economy as quoted from my previous post :

Footnotes :

1. Financial entry points into the RCE environment - Investment & ongoing sustainability/profitability

Primary points of USD entry into the universe stemming from *wider-scale* (meaning a drop rate/ratio ensuring affordability by the average day folk, lower to middle classes, and not just the upper class & super rich) Virtual Item (Unlimited Weapons, Armor & higher end mining/healing/etc tools), Virtual Assets (dwellings/LAs/Hangars/Vehicles/etc) along with Accelerated Investment into skill chip-ins and/or faster progression of the skilling cycle through consumable (L) items providing faster skilling offsets (see next footnote), also as mentioned next from those investing into areas of production.

I think what you meant to say is we do not have any intra-internal trading partners, as in other partner worlds.

As far as external trading partners go, they will always be the participants in making deposits of financial equity into the system across all virtual worlds upon the Entropia platform.

When baking a cake, if you open the oven every 5mins you're not likely to get a good result; Likewise sometimes you need to know when not to interfere in real world models.

It is also not good to open it every 2-3 years, same thing, your not going to have much of a cake left by then.

Change is required, look at our economy and what is occuring, use the tools on the tracker if your not sure of participation levels and how many are burning enough ped to global daily & weekly across the spectrum of hunting, crafting and mining. You would be surprised to know that less than 300 people global daily and less than 750 global once or more weekly. (That 750 including the average 300 that global daily)

The point being not how many people are globalling/HoFing, the point being activity levels are right down, the economy is not inspired or motivated, most are finding Entropia to be a non viable nor affordable environment to participate in (even worse for those who are starting today or those who started in the last few recent years) which does not provide the elements which MindArk boast about at there shows and events, in the media, etc.

This eventually leading to a further bolstering of the negative consensus forming about Entropia. Brillant hey, bad management I say.

People hate to be lied to when it involves their hard earnt real life money. And plainly this is what is occuring, people are being lied to, intentionally or what I think to be, not intentionally due to people in MindArk being somewhat out of touch with those on the other side of the table. (Their Cashcows/customers/participants)

We are an economy in decline with negative growth, yes this has occured from time to time, but not at this rate. Further real world issues do impact the accelerated rate of negative growth, though this goes to show how weak our economy is in the motivation and inspiration which drives it.

Another lot of participants hopefully will come through the door from the Vegas show (Hopefully not a gambling crowd, but at this point I really don't care, as long as they spend big to burn up resources. We can deal with the negative offspins later <--- MindArk's general attitude to such things being as long as they come to the platform, how they come really doesn't matter, again not properly planned economic management for inspired and motivated growth and prosperity)

I read complaints about the rising economy, but I read in the next line complaints about market falling. This is a real world model, people see benefit in being here, they invest. People see less benefit that money is worth in pocket, they take money elsewhere. These cause natural fluctuations in market. With the recent rl economic issues effecting Calypso, and the resultant reduction in spending, coupled with some people chosing to move some money out, we see a reduction in the value of many items. So now is the time to be watching the market and gaining tools to take your game forward. This action is the stabalizer, and will kick-in when the value drops enough that the benefit to stay increasingly outweighs the benefit to take some/all peds out. But it's so important to remember this is a gradient. For some people the leave/reduce spent point has not been reached, for others the buy-in point hasn't been reached.

Agree with you on this point, that is nature cause and effect of any economy, yet still within a motivated and growing economy, this cause and effect would be much more balanced than what we are finding in Entropia at this point in time.

The current drop of L weapons is designed to promote their use, provide something other than oils in loot, and provide a stabalizing effect on the L item prices.

LOL. Sorry have to point out they have failed greatly here. Re-read my initial post about offsets with (L) items.

Having used many (L) items, they do not give less oils or common drop resources, that is just a fallacy no matter what others may try to tell you, tested and proven many times. :D

Increasing UL drops reverses this process and drops of UL SIB weapons is very dangerous to the economy and L item usage.

Again read initial footnotes on (L) items in original Economic Strategist post. This would not occur if implemented properly, (L) items would actually enhance the economy along with give a viable option for those wishing to use the benefits of (L) item offsets if they were to be implemented properly.


Again I think the model your proposing is not thought through fully. The 1:10,000 ratio sounds great, but consider that the tt or near L weapons make up the bulk of drops and will simply be tt'd, thus they'll play little or no part in slowing down inflation, every quicker the point will be reached where a sizeable proportion of the population have access to weapons that preclude the use of L entirely. Then MA's only action left to control economy is to nerf everyone, thus it'll be more difficult to skill, more expensive to play per hour, loot will be lower - all so we can move towards the inevitable point where a significant proportion of the population have UL weapons....

Even though I have a strong background in economics, I am not a professional and don't pretend to be one, this is something that an Economic Strategist needs to do considering and keep in context all elements of Calypso. All I have outlined is a concept for improving things, not a defined answer on what the rates should be.

The goal here is to MOTIVATE people and encourage growth through affordability, motivation and inspiration for achieving their own aspirations.

(refer to your own example of housing prices in the UK and the ability to mortgage them out at the same rate as paying rent in another, hopely the UK does not start another sub-prime trend in over leveraging under-pinning assets with the new iniative)

At the end of the day, MindArk is asking us to pay 10 ped (1 USD) per hour vs other *games* which charge 5 ped (0.5 USD) per *day* (ie. 60 pec per hour for the average gamers 8 hour day)

MindArk needs to realise of which I am sure it does, that this is not a game economy and needs to be lead/guided as a proper real world economy since it revolves around real world currency.

All they have developed as an organisation (FPC/MA) is an environment to which others can play our their own inner ambitions & desires (aspirations) to make money in an entertaining environment. They have also clearly stated this in their EULA in that Entropia Universe is not a game and that Calypso is a world of Entertainment.

If the Economy is not to be managed properly in the use of real world currency to provide this reflected service (be it entertaining or not) they have simply failed their original mission statement.

If they wish to provide a game to play without a properly managed (lead/guided) economy, they should *not* be charging the participant who plays an average of 8 hours a day a fee of 3000 USD per year (30k ped) to do so, but instead charge the going rate of games which is about 15 USD a month, 180 USD a year. (1800 PED)

Otherwise they are lying to those whom they lure into using the service, and rightly so, for those whom know a scam when they see it after initial investigation and time spent, will further impact the external negative consensus. (Note : It is not a scam, just the balance is not right in providing the offsets for people to realistically achieve what motivated them to join in the first place)

Again, I can see the first move being played out in your mind, but I don't think your looking several moves on. Items have value, because demand outstrips supply. Demand outstips supply, because either the supply is low or the demand is high. If the supply is increased without a relative increase in demand the prices will fall though the floor. We have people who skill up in certain areas to do well and become the icons of their speciality or mix; People wont bother if their isn't sufficient reward, thus we could really mess up the future growth of Calypso with a terrible, yet innocent policy change as raising drop-rate on BP's.

Again another basic economic concept.

I feel your being a little melodramatic with thinking values would go through the floor. Again a professional would need to handle this, though with it done properly, an economy which is growing will consume these items, and there have ben suggested limitations in my previous post to negate some of the negative human behavioural patterns that could adversely effect the value of an item or the economy of a multitude of items within the same range.

At the same time, the rate needs to be raised consistantly with the level of growth to keep the potential of looting one a reality and not a lotto fantasy to drive economic motivation to extend activity.

Buying is one thing, but does not address the lower 50 - 60% of any economy not able to afford these now affordable items (speaking in future context where items have been adjusted down, ie 150k items worth 25k now, 25k items now worth 5k). So 60% of the economy will require motivation and inspiration in knowing that their aspirations of liking to loot one are achievable. This is not the case today.

Never ever hunt for item specific loot unless it is a very often or common drop on the known loot table, your just wasting your time and PED if that is all your after from your hunts. With time, this trying demotivates people to no end, eventually leaving the system disgrunted, again with people liking to be heard, they will be commenting externally in the real world since they were burnt in the use of their real life hard earnt money.


If the solution was simple, it would have been implemented. Limiting over time is terribly restrictive, durring the recent competion we saw ppl invalidating entry by chosing to play because they were bored and cared less about competition than restricting their game time to perscribed levels. Apart from generating a sense of disapointment when you get a big hit, with the idea that you'll now be certified bad loots for X time, you're only pushing the lawless mind to actions such as multi-accounts. Also we generate lots of paper-doll skilled avatars, as we're pushed from skill area to skill area, avoiding looting restrictions. This ruins not only diversity and player enjoyment, but destroys the opportunity for business interests and the belief that 1 person can work to better themselves. Without this belief system, we'll lose untold amount of investment.

:) The solution will not be a simple one, there are many elements to consider, hence a professional should be brought onboard to address them, at the same time, the concepts of providing growth and development through motivation and affordability, which really is not rocket science.

The the secondary points/any of the melodrama can be address along the way. Some of the issues you have addressed above occur as normal negatives, in cause and effect from human motivates.

:scratch2: I think what you mean is to move the carrot nearer the donkey ;)

No, I mean, remove the carrot on the stick concept totally out of the workings of the environment. Participants are not Donkeys and treating them as such will only lead to them kicking MA in the arse one day (ref disgrunted customers leaving a trail of carnage in the real world bolstering the negative consensus)

:shower: MA needs to build a level of trust and confidence with it's customers the participants, bringing into place a happy and balanced unison between the two. Not one where people come to the point of wanting to :handgun:

This does not mean that MA gives away it's bag of toys at the first chance it gets, though it does mean at an equilibrated (bringing into balance and harmony) approach must be achieved through rewarded progression and activity at regular intervals to keep the participant's motivation inspirational.

As the old saying goes, you scratch my back and I will scratch your back.

MA is is saying scratch it baby, more more, harder harder, yes that is the spot, keep going, keeeep going ... oh yea ... what, no it's not your turn, keeeeep going ... that's it, you got the right spot there, no not your turn yet, keep scratching :D

LOL, what normal person does that, none, only a selfish person would.
MA is not living upto it's standards in providing the reflection of it's service to meet those desires which brought it into original existence.

The carrot metaphor represents postive desire, motived by self will. With a carrot further away or not present, the donkey won't have any motivator left accept the stick.

LOL, yes I know what the carrot resembles in the context of Donkeys, again we are not Donkeys and MA treating us as such will lead to no where good, Human beings can motivate themselves through proven knowledge that meeting their inner ambitions & desires (aspirations) are realistic and not some sort of lotto fantasy.

I get quite sick of reading on industry sites how much Entropia is Gambling, I don't even bother to reply to defend MindArk/Entropia, as I see exactly where they are coming from, a lot of things in Entropia sadly conceptually resemble gambling, even though the design of the core mechanics (accounting platform wise) is not.

These elements have to be rebalanced to bring things from conceptual gambling state back into achievable rewarded progress state, otherwise this consenus will just keep building as time goes on and ultimately destroy a lot of the hard work MA tries to do in promoting the platform/system/new ideas & implementations.

Getting the balance right is most important, motivating and inspiring the participants through realistic achievement of their inner ambitions & desires, and for the upper 40-50% of the economy rather than the just the upper 10% upper class, bring these rewards back down to a level of affordability.

And yes, this will hurt and disgrunt a few people whom currently have items of high value, yet this can be management in the way it is done, hopefully to a degree of *finesse*, though I do ask, what worth are any of those items in an economy without strength ?

There is no offset to paying high prices if you can not generate wealth to any substancial measure to recoupe the over inflated investment in a weak economy.

Problem with people is their lack of willingness to see this, as the larger portion of the participant base finds items our of their affordability range, or as a fictional lotto style looting chance (ie. Nil chance) then they leave or reduce participate dramatically, negatively impacting on the economic strength of the economy and hence those who invested such outrageous amounts to have any potential on recouping such amounts.

It is a vicious cycle, but human nature also, and without proper measures of growth to support it, people that are greedy being when it comes to their own self interests without considering most of the external elements of where they are at and what they are involved with and in as a whole create their own graves when it comes to times like now when we have a declining economy and where bubbles will burst and loses will be incurred.

(Ref to generating wealth and distribution vs the generalisation of 'making money'). These self interests can not be overcome, it is the nature of most human beings in this financial ERA.

:laugh: 6yrs and I'm still waiting, however short of 100k I'm not going to run naked though the streets screaming with joy. So your point is true. Yes I'm jaded with my age here.

;) I really don't need to comment on this, you have been here long enough to know.

But I don't see how increasing the big loot frequency will help this, instead it hurts everyone else more. I'd sooner have better economy than massive one-off hit, I'd rather have a smile on my face the majority of hunts, than 1 heart attack.

It would need to be done in gradual, yet sustancially noticable steps to produce an effect of inspired motivation in what participant base we have with us presently today.

A professional will need to handle this to do it right, to get the momentum going and to draw both the previous and the non-motivated (just hanging around till the edges of Cry2) crowd back into active willing participation, slowly increasing that participation and with the hope of drawing in new participants via the participant base along the way.

Word of mouth is the most powerful tool here, the outlay which MindArk is spending at this time in roadshows imho is pretty much wasted to a large degree and in the end are just paying for more to add to eventually to the negative external real world consensus, retaining only a few participants longer term in the process.

Fairly wicked I know, but this is what is occuring, MA is actually paying to have their reputation destroyed in the long run through it's luring efforts via roadshows and events.

And this I grow tired of seeing.

Sure bad-press is bad press, but... advertising is always good :D
Some people join just to find out if it really is that bad, alot of people will investigate and be drawn-in with the quick logic - "if it's so bad, why is anyone playing".

Refer to above ;)

Please don't take this as a personal attack, you've just been kind enough to cover a wealth of ideas in your prolifically long post that I desired to balance out. Sure I appear to have 'fought the MA side' here, but I'm no brown-noser, I've just got different priorities and see a different set of dangers in getting their.

:) You don't know me well enough if you feel I would take this as a personal attack, yes I can get fiery, but that is me by nature. I do try to research things out best I can, and I do not feel I am incorrectly representing the majority of the particpant base, including those no longer with us doing the majority of the damage at this time with others still with us close to that 'Line in the Sand' point.

I understand your not a brown noser, of which I am the same, I have fought for what I have believed in. And I do believe in FPC/MA and it's path and direction.

At the same time, I feel they have come out of touch with both their offering, real world circumstance and the participant base whom use the service as a majority.

My overriding concerns are the false representation of the player base (even though this itself has good and bad points ingame and investment wise for MA), as I believe that the falsely inflated population, derived though the white-lie of created accounts = active accounts, is actually causing people to think that Entropia isn't a budding place to get in and start investing. When in actuality we are at the very start of a time where people really can enter Calypso with serious investment and a real chance to make it big.

I understand and respect your concerns here, though I think you have blown out of context the "When in actuality we are at the very start of a time where people really can enter Calypso with serious investment and a real chance to make it big".

This is a fallacy for 99% of people. No good having only the upper class catered for and none of which is the real workhorse of any economy.

ROI potential along with earnings shall fall through the floor and devalues the initial investment long term inevitibly creating a loss at the end of it all within the context of a weak/weakening economy.

(refer to previous postings upon Virtual Asset Investment vs sustained economic growth/strength ensuring ROI potential and asset value retention - not the part on constrained releases causing over appreciation when investment opportunities are present & abundant, seperate issue)

Really it's like turning 'The American Dream' sour by saying we've already peaked, and from here on in it's only going down hill.

I really hate commenting on specifics on the society of a people in the real world, even as a stereotyped generalisation, as people generally get their arses up over it.

Also probably a bad example to use since the majority of American opportunities in the past decade have heavily leant to the side of 'Who can we screw over to get ahead' rather than truely ethical opportunities to make progress upon.

Though having followed to some degree American history. Americans are great dreamers, though usually only make progress in getting things done, after the fact (meaning after the shit hits the fan is when they band together and make these achievements) and generally at the expense of the rest of the international community to some substancial degree (financial/lives-lost).

Not saying they don't take the brunt of this, though they are the creators of their own demise (eventually getting the job done).

Even in business as travelling as a Core Systems communications engineer are the world very month dealing with VoIP & SS7 interconnects, I found them to be a very self-righteous the sun shines out of our arses society of people (I call it the Mighty Mouse complex, too proud in their approach to situations that it usually turns out to be a very destructive way of handling it) vs any other location in the world I have been to. (Most 1st & 2nd world countries);

So it is not their fault, just a trademark of their society's up-bringing and early years of society/cultural/social conditioning though from experience has never proven to be a conducive approach to forming solutions, getting resolutions & change in place to make effective progress.

I am sure someone here will pick on me for having commented upon that;

(Special Note : I have nothing against Americans, I treat every person as an individual, no matter what race they are, though in expectation management, I do not become upset when such things do occur)

Though besides the point the above has a direct reflective relevance to what is occuring with MindArk at the present time ...

Personally I am not into just dreaming, dreaming is great and is the first step of empowering any thought form through the various levels of existence into physical reality.

I am more of a doer at the end of the day, following processes through from dreams to reality, then improving upon their initial existence as time goes on.

Again a point MindArk has to take onboard with the getting too comfortable, forgetting their roots from conditioning, being too proud in their approach, hence losing touch with what motivated them and others to make Entropia what it is today and to a greater extent what it will become tomorrow.

Otherwise I would not put all this time & energy into trying to create such an awakening through these posts ;)

Also of serious concern is the awful ped lock-in required for so many items in the Entropia Universe, items that really can't justify it in any way. I've made many masks, I've listed them in my shop, I've advertised in-game for sales at 10%. Great deal, but no sales what-so-ever. I tailor (###) many items, items with 40, 50, 80 and more ped locked into tt. These don't sell, people simply don't have a taste en-masse for in-game clothing that costs as much as a pair of basic jeans in real life (or jeans in-game that cost as much as much as my Levi's :rolleyes:). I'll get though hundreads of k (or k of k :silly2:) in tailoring res to make full tt item that will look good with colour and texture, only for it to sit undesired on a shelf.

Brilliant, now your starting to see things a lot more clearly and why sustained growth and inspired motivation of participants is required to keep up consumption along with the knock on effects as secondary consumer demands of each of these active participants grow.

We need arses, lots of arses, sat at computer, logged into Entropia. The current ability to manufacture goods outstrips the demand by so damn much, it's crazy. The price won't come down any further for alot of items, the floor is the cost of materials and efficiency, with the hugely false raised floor of massive tt values and 90% condition limits.

Hehe, I knew you would see through the clouds at some point, always seems to be at the end of people's responses :D

This is why we need to create an equilbrated environment where people are motivated to achieve their aspired to inner ambitions & desires. (Where FPC/MA actually starts to offer it's intended service long-term, rather than the recycling participant base routine we often see them doing today)

What I have suggested (requiring a professional to do it & monitor it properly) is something MindArk can directly effect in creating this balance and harmony in both the core Hunting sphere which all other spheres hinge off along with replicating the same in crating sphere, in unison of doing this, demand on both hunted and mined resources will also be achieved, so we cover all 3 core spheres along with catering for all secondary consumer requirements in a sustained fashion over time. (Tailoring, makeup masks, colouring, dwellings, makeup/body services, transportation flights, homestead furnishing yadda yadda the list goes on)

Rather than having no othe rplace for these to reasonably go other than the TT machine since the 3,000 odd relatively active (burning enough ped to global/HoF at least once a month) already have most of their needs and requirements met.

This is where MA will be required at some point to make the decision to look into planned continued growth, rather than recycling and reusing the economy to a per-determined size.

Yes this will require hardware planning (short term leasing being a good option incase major decline occurs at some point) amongst other things.

Working upon a basis of continually maintaining then trashing an economy to recycle the participant base and their needs is never a good approach to good sustained business long term and with doing so, continues to build a negative external consensus which will linger over MindArk as an organisation for when it comes to IPO, and future share evaluations and invested ground value to be gained/lost as time progresses.

On a final note, just to be clear, I do love Entropia, even with it's flaws, I will be here for many many years to come, 5 - 10+ easily. Due to real life family circumstances which will surround me for the next decade at least, this is my last big venture as far as putting all my time, effort and affordable financial resource into for the period. I do not go back on decisions once something is started, even if my approach may change.

(eg. Changing from running as a business to playing a game due to low to no viability in any eventual sustancial life supporting business sense for a middle class participant <-- has not occured yet, but may if systems are kept as they are)

On the broader scope, if MA is truely looking to participate as an organisation on the world stage, in the international environment as a publicly listed company effected by external opinions, consensus and professional evaluations (once RCE environment regulations hit, which will be addressed on the world stage sooner than people expect with China and other parts of Asian coming online soon);

It sure does need to pull it's act together, the company's service offering into what it offers and how it is managed at this point is quite laughable sadly, no matter how you dress it up with eye candy & storylines.

A Real Cash Economy without a properly lead/guided economy and limited/restricted economic motivative strength. Any investor would laugh at it's economic potential and ability to fair any negative internal and/or external economic forces.

It would be considered weak and flimsy at best without long-term participant & continued activity retention potential nor continued sustainable growth potential.

This is what needs to change about FPC/MA's Calypso offering.

This *intentional* throttling (chocking) and recycling of the participant base while retaining a few in the process, while luring new participants to the service to create new demand will not work long term, which is starting to become more and more apparant. This process being repeated after a while becomes very destructive.

(I strongly believe it is intentional, most do not keep in mind why MA may be doing this in reference to infrastructure & personnel overheads for the required continuous expansion required to support sustained growth)

FPC/MA needs to start to look at measures of sustained growth and the growing of inspired motivative strength within the economy to give it grunt, to be able to fair through ups and downs of internal and external pressures and to be *REAL* in providing the level of service it boasts about in meeting people's aspirations on their lowest motivative levels to inspire them to participate.

This will mean expansion to their server farms on a continual basis including factoring space & staff requirements to maintain this sustained growth into their plans.

MindArk/FPC has the opportunity of becoming another Microsoft/Google but fails to acknowledge & proceed with the requirements in making this transition, instead being destructive to their own long term aspirations in the real world including factors such as reputation and revenue generation, along with longer term aspirations of publicly listed shares of which their value and strength will be based on such factors.

Especially when environment regulations come into play and real world economic analysts start playing their part of evaluating the internal strength of each virtual world's economy and viability.

They need to start sooner, rather than taking the later course of action, otherwise this current day destructive approach will greatly impinge upon their long term goals when they finally get to them.

Anyhow, let us wait and see if the interview with Marco and Dion sheds light onto any of this. My guess it won't and that Marco is still building upon enrichment of the environment through storylines and paths of choice.

This still will not address the under-laying long term financial viability and motivational factors which drive the strength of the economy or meet the current MindArk's mission statement in providing a reflective environment for which it is designed (upon RCE) with a hefty $ 3,000 USD year fee for those living full time virtual lives. (1 USD per hour averaged across the participant base, meaning some pay more, some pay less)

$ 3,000 USD a year average is going to be a rather expensive game to play imho :D

Never the less, at least in the short term, the economy will improve whilst being masked by such distractions.

See you in a few years for further discussions on this same subject :laugh: once those distractions have diminished and the next lot of people are churned out of the system. (Or as inactive/minimal activity)

Hopefully this will not be the case and change has been made by then, not holding my breath just yet though.

Cheers,
Sparkz

PS. Something that has lingered in my mind for a long time is the affordability MindArk's side to be able to proceed in achieving this and their unwillingness to go out on a financial limb to acquire the capital to make the necessary expansion.

If this is the case, I do hope the additional worlds coming online in the platform, provide the required revenue to make this expansion occur at some point driving the true economic growth and expansion of FPC/Calypso, in turn meeting the level of service to their customer base.

The intention to go public with an IPO draws me one step closer to this conclusion at this time.
 
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you guys have very good and valid points but you are writing novels :D
 
you guys have very good and valid points but you are writing novels :D

HAHA yea, see my edit notes, damn this post has turned into another EPIC !! :D

I think I will leave further posting alone for a while.

I am sure most have had enough of what I have to say (especially at MindArk) and FPC/MA has enough on their plate to think about over this issue.

I see no use in pushing the point with playing the drums that have been played so often throughout history.
 
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Your mistake is in keeping your definitions static in a dynamic world. There are dozens of unlimited SIB items in game now that are "more uber" (kinda meaningless, but you know what i mean) than 99% of previous gear. However expensive the ML35 might be now, it's not nearly as relevant as it was two years ago, and therefore there's no need to drop more.

Human nature tends to bind value with quality. Price something ridiculously high and eventually some rich sucker will come along to buy it thinking it's a Holy Grail. Price the same thing it's true value (1$), put it on ebay and you'll lose more then you'll earn.

Same goes for a large deal of items ingame and basically those items are imbalancing the economy. Cool that MA wants to check how deep players' pockets are by releasing UL ore amps and such, but they seem more to be a burden on the general economy and resource markup prices then they do good.

Same goes for the UL guns, if they'd atleast stay with the (L)strategy for a while untill the eco runs smooth there's no problem. But since they release UL's at random, no one is really interested in the (L) versions ... they are only used untill a better option comes along which isn't exactly promoting the normal cycle.
 
This still will not address the under-laying long term financial viability and motivational factors which drive the strength of the economy or meet the current MindArk's mission statement in providing a reflective environment for which it is designed (upon RCE) with a hefty $ 3,000 USD year fee for those living full time virtual lives. (1 USD per hour averaged across the participant base, meaning some pay more, some pay less)

$ 3,000 USD a year average is going to be a rather expensive game to play imho

for some perspective, $3000 or $57/week is for a hobby is comparable to many others. does it occur that they are aiming at a different market to what you believe? A great deal of assumptions seem to be being made and alot based on them with no evidence of their veracity. for a start, where does MA's supposed expection of 57 hr/week activity come from (in order to get to $3000/yr)?


The intention to go public with an IPO draws me one step closer to this conclusion at this time.

you do know that IPO is postponed indefinatly, right? doe this mean a change in direction or business as usuall? i'd have thought the fomer, with managment redirected towards day to day operations and restructing the business to new objectives. The seperation of planet and platform, to bring this screaming back to topic, seems to be a direct result of this.
 
Same goes for the UL guns, if they'd atleast stay with the (L)strategy for a while untill the eco runs smooth there's no problem. But since they release UL's at random, no one is really interested in the (L) versions ... they are only used untill a better option comes along which isn't exactly promoting the normal cycle.

I agree and have protested the backwardness of the proliferation of UL SIBs many times. With or without the UL versions, i still think my point is true. MA had the right idea in
  1. Moving to (L) throughput economy
  2. Raising the bar through a SIB ladder that keeps going up
in that they bridged the huge gap between uber gear and the amped opalo that existed and made powerful weapons available to a wider audience more defined by its skills than by its PED card.

Where they fell on their faces was in the nature of the skill nerf that accompanied (2) and in almost everything they've done since (eg dropped dozens of UL versions of the SIB tools).
 
for some perspective, $3000 or $57/week is for a hobby is comparable to many others. does it occur that they are aiming at a different market to what you believe? A great deal of assumptions seem to be being made and alot based on them with no evidence of their veracity. for a start, where does MA's supposed expection of 57 hr/week activity come from (in order to get to $3000/yr)?

All hobbies produce a desired result which inspired the person to start the hobby in the first place, granting them a level of satisfaction for the money and time they invest into that hobby.

Not producing such results which motivated them to continue the hobby ends up with them stopping and looking for something else to do, *in most cases* leaving them with a negative opinion of the hobby for the money they feel they have wasted.

Also your figures are out, the 57 a week is just the tax your paying on the hobbies materials/services, you need to factor in the operating costs ontop of that ;)

In bold, read the MindArk website, then do the calculations for a full Virtual Life cycle of 8 hours a day, 365 days a year. We are talking about a full Virtual life cycle, not a log on for an hour or two a day or every few days.

you do know that IPO is postponed indefinatly, right?

Postponed/Suspended means exactly that, it does not mean that it will not occur one day down the track in the foreseeable future once markets have settled, market confidence has returned and that proven strength and stability once again return in both the financial and technology trading sectors.

doe this mean a change in direction or business as usuall? i'd have thought the fomer, with managment redirected towards day to day operations and restructing the business to new objectives. The seperation of planet and platform, to bring this screaming back to topic, seems to be a direct result of this.

Most businesses looking to list public, even in a suspended state do not change their day to day operations at all. They simply list the new tasks that need to be done in preparing for it in the overall project management plan for the business.

Not sure about your understanding of how business works, but people do not drop what they are doing to focus on something as small as this, taking away from the core business. It becomes integrated.

Either way, this does not stop them from continuing with such tasks in preparation for future readiness.

It also has no bearing in the conclusions being considered as to why things *may* be the way they are. I keep a watchful eye out for things from all directions which help in forming a better picture, not focusing on any one particular aspect.

~ Sparkz
 
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Wise man say 'Driver lazy foot with, driver active wallet has'

Ok, I'm maybe going to disapoint, by not tackling the response post in it's entirety. I could, but I feel it'd be counter-productive - I can see some basic misunderstandings of ideology and parts of speech. Also I feel arguments to statements such as 'read my previous essays' won't be constructive ;) Still, I'll touch upon a couple of points, and hopefully put the thread back on track a little... :topic:

Not sure why your making this division, Affordability is in reference to what people can afford to deposit from the real world as USD into the platform and has no bearing on what level of development they are upto in Entropia.
I'm not, I was comenting on your use of the division ;) I'm highlighting that there're so many categorisations, as to make a split of people who can and can't afford items meaningless.


Refer to above, you make the assumption people in the real world are well off at this point. I am a mid level player buying mid level items 1k USD (1.5k AUD) - 2.5k USD (3.5k AUD) and these prices are still way out of context for someone who has money saved up to make such purchases. 2yrs ago most of these items were 500 to 1k USD or less.
Sweet, I'll send you a badge and t-shirt. I too am a mid-level player. I'd say that I'm less inclined to buy expensive items, as I either have knowledge of item that leads me in other directions or own the item :cool: for many years. However my peds are spent on consumables in the more traditional sense of ammo and materials.

Oh and if you have food in your stomach and a roof over your head, your doing alot better than alot of people in the world. If you have a broad-band internet connection and can afford to spend hours in front of a computer and not take on a 2nd or third job, then ur middle class. Or have the options to do something about it!

My Hobbies with approx avg. yearly spend
Motorbike - £2500 / £4000 (time: very little)
Mountain Bike - £800 / £1500 (time: very little)
Computer - £1000 / £3000 (time: quite alot)
E. Guitar/Bass - £100 - £600 (time: not enough)

So you can see, I have several hobbies, and just 1 uses pretty much all the money you addvocate as reasonable for all. Notice that money spent is not directly related to time involvement. If I spent between 3 and 6 hours a night on my motorbike, I'd not enjoy it at all.

Brings me to an idea I'd examined in a previous post, though I won't ask anyone to read it ;) If the time spent to play EU can be justified for a single hour, it is reasonable for any period of time. I believe I used the metaphor of watching cinema films, being that: 1 ticket costs £15 and you cough up. But applying innapropriate tests, that have not themselves been reasoned though is inappropriate. Thus to say that their are 200 movies per year to watch, and that £15 * 200 = £3000 is nuts as you could get a car for that. If I choose to pay for 1 hour, then if I choose to play for 100 hours, then my choice has led me to consume at a rate that was fair, it's not anyone elses fault that my choices go unchecked...


Again this needs to be brought back into context with what people in the real world can afford, across the world in both the lower and mid classes of society. Placing items outside the reach purchase wise leads to mass demotivation.
And again, I say, it will. Market forces will push prices down when it's required. I read that you already appreciate MA's income model, and that it's average out and not something that can be mapped with precision to any 1 player. A short step on, to understand that market is not you. The market won't drop prices because a singular person can't afford (or rather chooses not to afford) any item. You think prices will continue to rise, even when every single player in the game is living in a cardboard box? Of course not, but you might hit your own spending limits before the market changes.


That being one point, the other is the chance to loot such items today is pretty much nil, no matter how much time, effort and money you put into it.
This has always been the case, and will likely remain so. Sure the drop rates on certain items are alot lower. However you're making the mistake of matching drop-rate with a singular persons chance of looting specific items. If I declare today that I'm going to hunt for 3 months and loot a FAP 80, then I can almost be certain that I won't. FAP is not uncommon, but to loot it, out of all the items I could potentially loot, it becomes very unlikely by applying extra rules that narrow the probability far more than we easily perceive.

Resellers are found everywhere in all economies, yes they are a problem, but they are factored into the drop rate ratio, hence why things need ot be monitored. Correctly adjusting the drop rate ratio, can allow for resellers to buy up to the point that their buying and reselling values are kept within an affordable tolerance range. This is all part of economic management. (Something we have not seen managed properly here in Entropia to date)
I sense a belief that every economic process is either good or bad, that results are obtained by following the 'right' choices all the time. Apart from the obvious issues of conflict of interests, it's also the case alot of the time that you can have same bad outcome with apposing approaches, as the saying goes 'all roads lead to Rome', also consider my own :D 'good food and bad food both lead to shit'.


It was more to keep things simple for people :)

I think what you meant to say is we do not have any intra-internal trading partners, as in other partner worlds.
Sure, and when I read it back, I did feel it came across as being condersending or unduely agressive, which wasn't intended. However the point stands. GDP isn't really applicable in our closed economy. I didn't mean specifically intra-trading, as the effect on an economy that is meassured by the ratio of GDP is essentially external. While it's true that we have external force in form of depositing, this doesn't map to the internal economy. Many ppl can and do deposit without regard to the internal economy. The real world does not have that luxury, as rates of international rates effect the economy with much force. Basically FPC can be likened to America in it's problematic times, but EU players are not residents, instead we are Aliens from the planet Zorg-Wahahahah AlphaPrime, which is the place we earn our income, coming to America to spend some cash.


Change is required, look at our economy and what is occuring, use the tools on the tracker if your not sure of participation levels and how many are burning enough ped to global daily & weekly across the spectrum of hunting, crafting and mining. You would be surprised to know that less than 300 people global daily and less than 750 global once or more weekly. (That 750 including the average 300 that global daily)
Globals don't map directly to activity, I'll grant that it's an interesting inferance measure, but certain not a full picture.

Any crafter can tell you how to pay MA to get your name in global, it's about the amount you put in, within a set time. Or more accurately, the stake you risk per click. I can guarantee I'll get 10 globals within an hour doing amps, what I can't guarantee is profit. I can play/spend/consume/decay for many, many hours whilst getting zero globals.

Personally I believe Sociology, more than any other non-core subject should be taught to every student. I remember my professor explaining that it's a dangerous subject, as it allows people to fully evaluate the world around them in ways that most of the time people don't bother with. Here it applies as the appreciation of extraneous factors (an underpinning idea in Sociology)
Using another example, I decide to hold a census to collect information about the true population size of FCP. I demand that everyone comes forward for census, I do alot of advertising, and get alot of pretty girls to tell everyone how they love bunnies and sex, and men that submit a census form. With all this effort and examination of data, I declare that FPC consists of 3057 players. The sociologist say, :scratch2: hang on a moment, lets look at all causes that would cause the results to potentially be skewed, then we'll use both reasoning and hypotheses to test in the real world a representative sample of the population. We might initially start looking at deviants who decide to attempt to submit several forms, people who are outside of the scope of our advertising, etc. etc.


(refer to your own example of housing prices in the UK and the ability to mortgage them out at the same rate as paying rent in another, hopely the UK does not start another sub-prime trend in over leveraging under-pinning assets with the new iniative)
Too late, England uses every, and I mean, EVERY trick in the book to squeeze ppl into postions where a home is a financial prison.


No, I mean, remove the carrot on the stick concept totally out of the workings of the environment. Participants are not Donkeys and treating them as such will only lead to them kicking MA in the arse one day (ref disgrunted customers leaving a trail of carnage in the real world bolstering the negative consensus)
Applogies in advance for everyone else reading, might want to skip this paragraph, as it's a discourse on a metaphor :laugh:

Yes, I understood exactly what you meant, as you've repeated your thoughts above. However it's a misunderstanding of the common language of metaphore that's at fault here. The metaphor consists of three parts, Stick, Donkey and Carrot (Caroot :D ). Each part has clear meaning, stick is negative motivation, such as a tax. Carrot is positive motivation, such as a taxbreak. While the donkey is used, to represent a simplified entity that only responds to carrot or stick (it doesn't motivate itself!), as in the real world, the donkey is know as a stubbon creature that responds to both carrot and stick, and the lesson is learned that both in modderation are more effective than one. You can't remove parts of the metaphor, as it doesn't really make sense. I see where you going, but carrot it not 'bad or good' in metaphor, it simply models positive motiviation, without this only negative (stick) remains. Propose a system that doesn't follow this metaphor, and I'll show you both carrot and stick.

Why do I pay so much attention to metaphor?
Metaphor used correctly is a powerful tool for modeling the world around us, it really is the language of genius, not the cliche, but carefully considered use. It's also a tool as powerful as propaganda in weaker minds, it by-passes thought and gets straight to the 'Yeah that's reasonable, I accept that as fact' part of the mind.


MA is not living upto it's standards in providing the reflection of it's service to meet those desires which brought it into original existence.
:rolleyes: Hmm I'm sure they appreciate your assumption about the original intentions. But it's just possible, that MA cut throat hard-bastards, or maybe something more middle of the road. A desire to make money, form a busines and do what they enjoy for a living. Being a business man, programmer, advertiser. Maybe top of the list was to have a cool office with two biscuit tins, one for people that wash their hands and one for the piss-mits.


I understand and respect your concerns here, though I think you have blown out of context the "When in actuality we are at the very start of a time where people really can enter Calypso with serious investment and a real chance to make it big".

This is a fallacy for 99% of people. No good having only the upper class catered for and none of which is the real workhorse of any economy.
To paraphrase, 'I get pissed at reading this'. We are at the start, we now have a system that works a hell of alot better, far less bugs than before. We have a system that's more stable, with growth matched in with increases to maps and participants. We have a diverse opportunity for in-game activities. Yes alot of changes I think are bloody stupid, but the general direction is taking us to a place I(we) want to be. I get so mad with the inappropriate application of Marxism in EU. The workforce, is not sweating, it's not depositing $10 every odd month. The 'workforce' consists of the middle class, depositing heavily, frequently and sustainably. The people using the 'silly priced items' and not batting an eyelid at losing few hundread ped on a crafting run. Sweat is sweat, it's not manual labour, it's not a function that has to be performed to allow the upper classes to survive. Sweat is 1 half of ME, and that is only 1 single consumable item that effects a limited and underused aspect of our universe.


I really hate commenting on specifics on the society of a people in the real world, even as a stereotyped generalisation, as people generally get their arses up over it.
Me too, used in this context my refference to 'the american dream' is as a metaphor of opportunity steming from being the first to the table.


I am more of a doer at the end of the day
I'll leave Doer to comment on this :silly2:


PS. Something that has lingered in my mind for a long time is the affordability MindArk's side to be able to proceed in achieving this and their unwillingness to go out on a financial limb to acquire the capital to make the necessary expansion.
Your joking right? Firstly I see alot of investment in advertising, which u've commented on yourself. I see various tactics to draw in external investment, several of which we've discussed. I'd expect you to appreciate that massive input with intention of increasing a company, can be extremely wasteful without various external factors effecting the business. It's like driving in your car by forcing ur foot to the floor and removing it completely to slow.

Wise man say 'Driver lazy foot with, driver active wallet has'.
 
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Ok, I'm maybe going to disapoint, by not tackling the response post in it's entirety. I could, but I feel it'd be counter-productive - I can see some basic misunderstandings of ideology and parts of speech.

Yep, leaving this thread for what it is for now,

I think I have addressed the major concerns the majority of the participant base have that are both still with us and not.

You have provided a lot of good responses also, though I am not going to go into technicalities over metaphors or ideology.

The concepts attempting to be protrayed is what is important, and as you said everything else is counter-productive, in that, getting the intended message across diminishes. ;)

In the end, our service provider will need to pickup on the electricity of their customers in providing the inspiration and motivation to drive the strength of economy to fair the up and down turns rather than having radical swings due to secondary distractions providing boosts of activity as the under-pinning driving force.

Addressing this at it's core fundermental/rudimentary emotional levels and providing adequate offsets and rewards which are not lotto fantasies, but are realistically achievable within a greatly reduced timeframe to what they are today is the desired path most are requesting of FPC/MindArk.

This will support sustained growth through a happy and balanced unison between the customer and the service provider, which will in turn meet the overall demand (and their knock on secondary demands) of the economy as a whole, rather than the current day recycling of the majority participants disgrunting them eventually causing some form of negative impact on the future of FPC/MA/Entropia as being a viable, stable and trustworthy service provider whom provides the level of service for one to achieve their aspired to goals;

And not constantly needing the requirement of luring new customers in to create a new demand structure to meet the production/harvesting output of those participants still with us today in an attempt to provide economy viability (high unstable economy)

So for those needing the brief nutshell version

Inspired motivatiion long term through :

1. Affordability for all levels within the economy

2. Realistic achievable rewards structure in smaller timeframes for those items which are deemed not affordable by the lower 40 - 50% of the economy of which they are willing to invest into activity based progress to acquire such items.
(Not never ending lotto fantasies)

3. Satisfactory offsets against further money invested into (L) consumables.
(ie. A measure of SIB % based upon monthly/yearly markup of the item with restrictions, for example, a maximum of 20 - 25% economic SIB, after the initial max level of the item has been surpassed. Meaning you do not get the economy % SIB ontop of the normal item SIB if you have not maxed the item yet. This offset also helping in the retention of (L) consumerable item markup values to some degree. Unlimited counterparts of the same (L) items *not* having this offset ensuring (L) versions have an added advantage to them)
Note : You did the right thing with adding 10,000 points of durability to (L) Armor

4. Proper indirect guidance of the economy by the service provider to take measure to ensure sustained growth and that a happy balance is in place for all rather than the continued recycling of the participant base in an attempt to create a new demand structure to create the *fallacy* of an economy providing long term viability in value retention and ROI potential.
(ie. Long term viability with a true element of stability)

People are interested in change, they are definitely interested in enrichment of the environment such as eye candy updates (cry2), Storylines & Quests (Involving factional social activities and objectives - Marco's current work in progress) along with other features to enrich the entertainment provided by the service.

Though it is important to point out that most, if not all, are interested in this enrichment being an enhancement to strength, growth, stability, viability of, and value retention within, the economy whilst improving overall entertainment & participation activity;

And *should not* be the long term under-pinning elements which provide long-term motivation & inspiration to achieve the above factors.


The ultimate intended goal in addressing the participant's motivational forces at their lowest basic level is to build into the economy a stable & reliable foundation to provide sustained economic strength, investment viability & growth for the long-term keeping all participants adequately satisfied & happy, upon which then can be enhanced (built upon) through the enrichment of Calypso.


Thanks for the great responses Commodore, I always love other peoples opinions when they are intelligently presented.

Take Care,
Sparkz

PS. Suggestions Support Case lodged to make it official.
 
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Also your figures are out, the 57 a week is just the tax your paying on the hobbies materials/services, you need to factor in the operating costs ontop of that ;)

In bold, read the MindArk website, then do the calculations for a full Virtual Life cycle of 8 hours a day, 365 days a year. We are talking about a full Virtual life cycle, not a log on for an hour or two a day or every few days.

not my figures, yours. I dont make any assumption that people are paying $3k are year. plucking a figure out the air*, id say more like $500 on average. which is probably a bit off but closer than $3k - just how many people realistically play 8 hrs, 365 days? anyway, Commadore more than illustrates the cost of hobbies.

*when i say air, i mean based on the 2007 net sales and the EU tracker showing of 18750 globaling avatars. and as i understand the net sales number that includes all those "overheads" too. so $3k average MA income per avatar is way out. to go further, though this is more speculative, there was a number of $24/mth per avatar mentioned. on last years sales that suggests ~35k avatars which ties in with some estimates. (though that doesnt account for "overhead" and 24hours a month average sounds very low activity)

Not sure about your understanding of how business works, but people do not drop what they are doing to focus on something as small as this, taking away from the core business. It becomes integrated.

enough to know who much of management's time an IPO or any corporate action takes up, its not "small". time now redirected back to the platform and the planet, and going forward if the IPO is revisited, the new structure will mean less distraction for the First Planet team dealing with content delivery.
 
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enough to know who much of management's time an IPO or any corporate action takes up, its not "small". time now redirected back to the platform and the planet, and going forward if the IPO is revisited, the new structure will mean less distraction for the First Planet team dealing with content delivery.

I really do wonder why I waste my time with such things.

The majority of the work is outsourced, a good 85% of it is not even handled by MindArk.

MindArk is presented with the evaluations and assessment of what workflow procedures needs to be put in place in all areas of the company structure of which is where there work is to be done, including any redirection of man-hours from the day-to-day core business operations.

You make it sound like management and other divisions will lose a good 3 months of work time. This is not the case, most IPOs for small companies can be handled with in side a week, the outsourced agency does the rest ;)

Anyway not interesting in continuing this dribble, hope it helps you understand the concept of outsourcing.

~ Sparkz
 
Yup yup, he sure did answer :)


It will be online shortly, some real life stuff took precedence over finishing stuff, but it will be done soon.


Any update on when this might be available?
 
Applogies in advance for everyone else reading, might want to skip this paragraph, as it's a discourse on a metaphor :laugh:

Yes, I understood exactly what you meant, as you've repeated your thoughts above. However it's a misunderstanding of the common language of metaphore that's at fault here. The metaphor consists of three parts, Stick, Donkey and Carrot (Caroot :D ). Each part has clear meaning, stick is negative motivation, such as a tax. Carrot is positive motivation, such as a taxbreak. While the donkey is used, to represent a simplified entity that only responds to carrot or stick (it doesn't motivate itself!), as in the real world, the donkey is know as a stubbon creature that responds to both carrot and stick, and the lesson is learned that both in modderation are more effective than one. You can't remove parts of the metaphor, as it doesn't really make sense. I see where you going, but carrot it not 'bad or good' in metaphor, it simply models positive motiviation, without this only negative (stick) remains. Propose a system that doesn't follow this metaphor, and I'll show you both carrot and stick.

Why do I pay so much attention to metaphor?
Metaphor used correctly is a powerful tool for modeling the world around us, it really is the language of genius, not the cliche, but carefully considered use. It's also a tool as powerful as propaganda in weaker minds, it by-passes thought and gets straight to the 'Yeah that's reasonable, I accept that as fact' part of the mind.

To my understanding you are missusing the methaphore (possibly to spread propaganda ;) ) which has correctly been used by Lavawalker in his previous post

so let me quote wikipedia on this:
Wikipedia said:
Carrot and stick
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Carrot and stick (also spelled "carrot-and-stick")[1] is an idiom that refers to a policy of offering a reward for making progress towards benchmarks or goals but not necessarily ever actually delivering. The original metaphor referred to a boy sitting on a cart being pulled by a donkey. The boy held a long stick to which a carrot had been tied, and he dangled the carrot in front of the donkey but just out of its reach. As the donkey moved forward to get the carrot, it pulled the cart—and the boy—so that the carrot always remained just out of reach as the cart moved forward.

The earliest citation of this expression recorded by the Supplement to the Oxford English Dictionary is to The Economist magazine in the December 11, 1948, issue. The Supplement also depicts a person trying to entice a donkey to move by dangling a carrot in front of it, which represents the original meaning of the phrase.

The term is misused currently to refer to the act of rewarding good behavior and punishing bad behavior. The carrot represents the edible reward, while the stick refers to a punishing switch. This is actually a combination of 2 theories of diplomacy, Carrot and Stick and Big Stick Diplomacy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrot_and_stick

I especialy checked Wiki to make sure i havent misunderstood the caroot and donkey concept all along ;)
 
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:) All good guys,

Metaphors can be perceived in different ways depending in which context they are used.

I tried to match it up as best as I could whilst typing on the fly, in the example given, though did not want to get into picking at formalities/technicalities over how it was used.

It is the point being protrayed that is important ;)

Next time I will try to make sure the analogy I use is better structured as to not cause confussion :)

Take Care,
Sparkz
 
not my figures, yours. I dont make any assumption that people are paying $3k are year. plucking a figure out the air*, id say more like $500 on average. which is probably a bit off but closer than $3k - just how many people realistically play 8 hrs, 365 days? anyway, Commadore more than illustrates the cost of hobbies.

*when i say air, i mean based on the 2007 net sales and the EU tracker showing of 18750 globaling avatars. and as i understand the net sales number that includes all those "overheads" too. so $3k average MA income per avatar is way out. to go further, though this is more speculative, there was a number of $24/mth per avatar mentioned. on last years sales that suggests ~35k avatars which ties in with some estimates. (though that doesnt account for "overhead" and 24hours a month average sounds very low activity)



enough to know who much of management's time an IPO or any corporate action takes up, its not "small". time now redirected back to the platform and the planet, and going forward if the IPO is revisited, the new structure will mean less distraction for the First Planet team dealing with content delivery.


i would like to hear Marco's views on this sorta thing when that press release comes out.....
 
Well... for what it is worth... has anyone commented that some great things are happening lately...? Araneatrox Youngs... the Migration is back...

If this continues, and there is no reason to think it will not, hat's off to FPC!! Doing a wonderful job! Keep us interested... give a reason to login.
 
the future could be bright...
 
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Well... for what it is worth... has anyone commented that some great things are happening lately...? Araneatrox Youngs... the Migration is back...

If this continues, and there is no reason to think it will not, hat's off to FPC!! Doing a wonderful job! Keep us interested... give a reason to login.

It's a start, even if it is a short term distraction ;)

Point being, distraction, no long term achievements are made in building any sort of floor into the economy long-term.

Yet agreed, it's a small boost keep things rolling for a small part of the participant base (200k+ skills & relatively good equipment) who can handle these mobs.

Tongue in cheek : I almost forgot, this relatively good equipment I speak of has not dropped forever in a day or only drops once in a blue moon now-days, so unless your a very long term player who was able to obtain all the nice high end equipment for under a couple of hundred USD a piece, or have a wallet full of money burning a hole in your pocket to buy such equipment at today's leveraged by a factor of 10 to 20 prices, that rules you out also *for the most part*.

Maybe if your lucky you can scrap together enough to put together a good enough patchwork (L) getup to have a go. Demand is high (Upcoming LAGrab demands), supply as of late has been relatively low, so good luck.


I feel I am wasting my time by being loud about how MA should improve it's operations, and it is not my place to do so for such fundermental concepts in behavioural economics;

With this I have decidied I am going to sit back and observe over the next couple of years, playing Entropia as a game rather than trying to establish a business and see what comes about;

For now there is little quantifiable stable viability in running a business around their service offering.

They are only developers of an RCE environment, they are not economic managers nor behavioural analysts, so in all honesty, one can not expect too much. (Maybe I am wrong and they will surprise me one day down the track)

~ Sparkz

PS. I won't say bring back PE as it was before my time, but I will say bring back common-sense, from what I hear MA had some of that back then.
 
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Behavioural Economics 101.

On the subject of behavioural economics,

If someone from MA bothers to read this thread,
Here is a good starting point for furthering your knowledge.

PDF - http://www.neweconomics.org/gen/uploads/tfi0ypn1141p45zoi0mrrgf222092005201739.pdf

Maybe it may give some insight, and clue you in to what I have been going on about in all my EPIC novels in this thread.

It may even give further clues on how to inspire & motivate your economy, creating a balanced approach through properly devised & presented offsets and a proven progression based rewards structure (rather than a fairy land statement of opportunities are present, only to find they are very limited and only are achieved by an even more limited few)

Ok enough from me, I am just pissing up the wall now. :mad:

Hopefully someone takes this all onboard MA side,
I would like to see the organisation really achieve something;
Rather than just achieve something.

Hell, if I am going to be around 10 years at 1 USD per hour, that is at least 30k USD, or closer to 50k USD based on my current hours per day spent online actively decaying items.

I would like to see something come of the company I have chosen to spend so much time with, paying service fees.

Always Hopeful,
Sparkz

PS. And please do not think me naive in not realising that the service fee paid over this period is transmuted into skill progression of which can be sold to the next person with a markup minus the 10% skill chipout tax charged;

This is totally beside the point being made into the time spent with the organisation and the viability of those skills retaining their associated markup values long term across the platform.

This is all relative in the concepts being put forward to ensure the stability of this economic viability & strength for the long term along with sustained growth ensuring that continued demand in the market is readily present.
 
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A worthless post from an Aussie Dog who feels more dumb than ever !!

Hi All, Hi Sparkz and of course Hi Marco (now can I borrow the Official MA pistol ? !!),

Thanks for the invite Sparkz - did my level best to understand your post and all the following related posts but I have to admit that the following post is about the ONLY one that my brain can cope with AND really relate to:

The economy rollercoaster takes a dive and everyone claims they saw it coming, it was inevitable, load of science crap talk and jargon - it will never go up again, we're all dooomed. Right. :wtg:

SORRY Sparkz - I now have to apologise for spending your valuable time in private chats (whilst you die by mobs !!) over what was (to me) my most important event in my SIMPLISTIC life in E.U.

Namely - that I thought that ALL my Xmas's had come at once when I was able to claim refining most likely the THIRD Umbra suit in EU OR (and closer to the truth) the SECOND officially approved MALE G-Sting (thong) in EU !!

HEY MATE (Sparkz) do a fellow Aussie a favour and STOP proving that my older and now retired University Professor brother is right about me - OTHERWISE my new sign off signature will need to become:

(BRAINLESS / BRAIN DEAD) Aussie DOG !!
 
HEY MATE (Sparkz) do a fellow Aussie a favour and STOP proving that my older and now retired University Professor brother is right about me - OTHERWISE my new sign off signature will need to become:

(BRAINLESS / BRAIN DEAD) Aussie DOG !!

:rofl: ;) Don't worry your secret is safe.

Life is so good in old age,
Things do not worry one as much :D
(Just teasing) :)

As far as I am concerned, I am here to play a game now, MA can work such things out for themselves if they want to be a real success and not piss a whole lot of people off in the process. ;)

Until at least they can properly demonstrate that they can manage the RCE concept properly that is.

All good and fine developing such an environment and dolling it up with secondaries (eye candy, storyline objectives etc).

Managing the dynamics of a proper economy involving real cash is a whole different kettle of fish.

Time will tell. Until then, I will play and watch what unfolds.

~ Sparkz
 
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not being harsh to entropia radio, cos i love it :) but,

am i the only person wondering were the interview is?
 
not being harsh to entropia radio, cos i love it :) but,

am i the only person wondering were the interview is?

Since Jimmy deleted the message right after your query, probably by mistake :scratch2:

I will answer it again.

The interview is being handled by Dion @ EntropiaRadio as a volunteer in this thread ...

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/entropia-radio/111680-questions-marco-23.html#post1642190

The lastest update on it is from Marco in the above thread :

I wanted to promote EntropiaRadio as an active part of the community. Also, i believe it is more "honest" in a sense to actually hear what I say, rather than just reading it. It becomes more personal, I believe. I did not expect it to drag on though - but maybe some real life issues took priority. It's not like Dion is heavy typing away in other threads on EF.

As to why Jimmy deleted that message I have no idea. :rolleyes: It really does not look good having a valid reply with the correct information being deleted ;)

~ Sparkz
 
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I thought this was recent for a second...
I thought Surely First Planet Company already own Planet Calypso o_O

Ooooh... the date.
 
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