EntropiaForum Rules Discussion

Althou i dont get why we arent allowed to adress mindark directly, its not like they care more or need our protection becuse they will cry becuse we do it.. its just that the thread looks more silly to the guys who reads it ^______^ :rolleyes:

The rationale for the rule is explained in the Forum Rules:

Forum Rules said:
3.9 - Addressing Mindark
Addressing MindArk directly in thread topics or titles is NOT permitted. EntropiaForum is a privately owned website that has the honor of periodic visits and announcements from MindArk representatives. However, EntropiaForum is NOT an official MindArk or Entropia Universe website, so please do NOT address MindArk directly. MindArk representatives are under no obligation to respond to any threads, posts or private messages. Similarly, please do NOT send support questions to any of the MindArk representatives who visit EntropiaForum. Please use the support section of the official EntropiaUniverse.com website for support requests.

Without this rule, there would be lots more threads directed at Mindark and the Mindark Staff who visit EntropiaForum, giving other members and visitors the false impression that Mindark has any obligation or expectation to respond to those threads. This rule is not so much to "protect Mindark" as it is to keep it clear to everyone that this is a fan forum, not an official Entropia Universe support forum.
 
I ask a mod for an opinion on this thread:
https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...raphics-upgrades-now-entropia-outfitters.html

When I saw it, I thought, this should be in sales thread, but then I realized he's advertising a real-world store.
Is that ok? Are we allowed to advertise our rl sales for free with no limits?
I didnt see anything in rules covering this specifically, or at least I didn't interpret anything that way.
 
Althou i dont get why we arent allowed to adress mindark directly, its not like they care more or need our protection becuse they will cry becuse we do it.. its just that the thread looks more silly to the guys who reads it ^______^ :rolleyes:

Well, you can address MA directly -- just use THEIR website and post a support case.

Wanting to address MA directly HERE is like wanting to ask Microsoft why "product x" isn't Vista certified yet, or going to Target to complain about the crappy Sony product you bought there. Even if they know they are only likely to refer you to the company.

To TheMZ: I'm critical of MA and EU quite regularly here, and have only been banned/edited when I crossed the line. Rightly so, and nothing recent. :)
 
Nicely put TR :)

I ask a mod for an opinion on this thread:
https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...raphics-upgrades-now-entropia-outfitters.html

When I saw it, I thought, this should be in sales thread, but then I realized he's advertising a real-world store.
Is that ok? Are we allowed to advertise our rl sales for free with no limits?
I didnt see anything in rules covering this specifically, or at least I didn't interpret anything that way.

Hmmm. Pretty sure we don't have a policy allowing any vendor to sell RL products. EO is obviously a vendor specific to EU so its a bit different although, yeah, the product being sold isn't anything to do with EU really.

So, not really sure about this one...I'll leave it to 711 to answer it :)
 
Hi I m a fan can we stop discussing the negative .Negative without a solution is the worst some things you have to live with. Pointing to a problem and then perhaps suggesting why this might make it better is a positive.Finding a negative an exploiting it makeS the game no fun.
Oh ya we are recruiting in Desperate House
and oh ya if your not having fun Come Join of soc
and i cant resist this so

{DELETED}

:grouphug::handgun::headbang::guide::boxer:
 
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Hmm,
I understand, But I dont like quite a few..:(
 
For a start, something about the negative reputation must be done. This is completely impossible and inconceivable. So yeah, assuming somebody disagrees with me, off he goes adding "Has some shamless records" to my account details, which is not acceptable.
 
For a start, something about the negative reputation must be done. This is completely impossible and inconceivable. So yeah, assuming somebody disagrees with me, off he goes adding "Has some shamless records" to my account details, which is not acceptable.

Crazy idea, but maybe if you posted constructively instead of pointlessly whining and bitching all the time, you might get +rep instead of -rep.
 
Crazy idea, but maybe if you posted constructively instead of pointlessly whining and bitching all the time, you might get +rep instead of -rep.

Oleg gets some +rep for some great advice to everyone.
 
In any case i guess its important for everyone to stick to the rules in the end. no matter what we think about them els this forum would be in chaos for sure.
If we dissagree with them this thread sure is a good place for such a discution to rule changes and you can express your opinion ^^

Goodngiht to all of you, love and peace

Also 711 and Traf Rellik, i get what you mean now about people shuld not directly "writ to mindark". there is a fair resone behind it =) cheers.
 
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why the friendly bump has been remouved frum the trade forum ?
I understand the no speaking about price ... but the friendly bump ?
 
why the friendly bump has been remouved frum the trade forum ?
I understand the no speaking about price ... but the friendly bump ?

Because friendly bumps often cause other rules to be broken. Sometimes they are used to side-step the one bump per 24hr rule. Other times they contain friendly 'hype' about the item being sold that sets off hijacking type responses. Other times they are not really so 'friendly' and are really hijacks in disguise.

My inclination is to be lenient with the rule if none of those circumstances arise, but one of them almost always does.

And, let's face it, thread starters are perfectly capable of bumping their own threads.
 
just wondering if there was going to be a responce about this post

Just wondering if there was going to be a responce about this post...

I know it's been read, but seems to of been over looked....

Thanks
Mf.


I ask a mod for an opinion on this thread:
https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...raphics-upgrades-now-entropia-outfitters.html

When I saw it, I thought, this should be in sales thread, but then I realized he's advertising a real-world store.
Is that ok? Are we allowed to advertise our rl sales for free with no limits?
I didnt see anything in rules covering this specifically, or at least I didn't interpret anything that way.

Nicely put TR :)
Hmmm. Pretty sure we don't have a policy allowing any vendor to sell RL products. EO is obviously a vendor specific to EU so its a bit different although, yeah, the product being sold isn't anything to do with EU really.

So, not really sure about this one...I'll leave it to 711 to answer it :)
 
Just wondering if there was going to be a responce about this post...

I know it's been read, but seems to of been over looked....

Thanks
Mf.

I am working on the best way to handle this. Very likely those threads will be removed. I like the fact that EF, unlike most other forums on the internet, is virtually "spam-free", meaning that solicitation of (real-world) goods and services is strictly prohibited here, allowing the forum community to stay focused on the purpose of the forum: discussion of Entropia Universe. MindBuster instituted this policy from the very beginning, and I think it is very important to continue that way.
 
I would remove that damn Selling/Buying section. Why do we need to have something out of the game anyways.

Jimmy B said:
As ever, if you want to discuss moderation issues, PM a moderator or admin.

Oh, and and what answer will I get??? To go f*#k myself if I dont like it? :) I know how ppl with more power then the rest act ;)

Im sorry, but sometimes things do get out of hand.
They get out of hand when you let people have too much freedom, but they also get out of hand when you are too strict.

Thats all from me

TJ:bandit:
 
I would remove that damn Selling/Buying section. Why do we need to have something out of the game anyways.
as ive always read it the selling section is for items hard to sell on the ingame auction. to me that is a "full" set of armor as a set not seperated, or a unique/rare weapon or tool. sadly this section has become a place to sell everything, just think how many ML-35/45 threads we have (an item that easily could sell in-game) maybe this is something that needs to be reconsidered my mods/admins as to what level of items qualify to be sold/traded here.


Oh, and and what answer will I get??? To go f*#k myself if I dont like it? :) I know how ppl with more power then the rest act ;)

Im sorry, but sometimes things do get out of hand.
They get out of hand when you let people have too much freedom, but they also get out of hand when you are too strict.

Thats all from me

TJ:bandit:
i have had conversations with jimmy about rules here at EF and in no way did he give me a %$&# off answer he replied promptly and answered my question very well, which after browsing here i found the answer had already been posted yet he still took time to talk with me.

the idea that this place is run by the new wave of nazi gustpo is a bit extreme.

if a specific rule is really bothering you maybe taking it up with both 711/jimmy is a great way to get answers and maybe provoke them to consider changes or ask the community for further input.

best to remember a cool and collected question will often result in a cool and collected answer.
 
Oh, and and what answer will I get??? To go f*#k myself if I dont like it? :) I know how ppl with more power then the rest act ;)

Anyone who has actually bothered to honour the rules and PM me about moderation issues, instead of posting it on the forum for points, would tell you it takes an awful lot to push me into a response like that. I do however get spoken to like that myself quite a lot.

We don't work on EF for our own entertainment, we do it to provide a useful service for the community. Much of the time we spend moderating we'd prefer to be spending playing EU ourselves. The stricter new rules were created because the trading forum was taking up way too much of our time, due to continual flamefests and hijacking.

If the Selling forum continues to get abused, I guess removing it completely like you suggest is an option. But it'd be a shame for the people who do use it in the manner intended (items/property that are difficult to sell using auction in-game) to lose a feature because of the behaviour of a few people who choose to disrespect the service being offered.

You can still respectfully disagree with the rules, but at the same time you have to be aware that everyone has different opinions and it is simply impossible to keep everyone happy.
 
VERY well said, Jimmy.

As someone that does a FAIR AMOUNT of critiquing of EU, I have to say that this forum has always allowed a good deal of open and honest communication. It has never come across as bullying or heavy handed to me, and I have to admit that the time I was banned (3 years ago) was not without reason (I was a noob at the time).

TJ: obviously you feel strongly about this. Perhaps your emotions are clouding your judgment, this happens to everyone once in a while. If you step back and examine the cause for your anger, perhaps you would realize that it's very likely an over-reaction or a misunderstanding. Just a thought.
 
allowing the forum community to stay focused on the purpose of the forum: discussion of Entropia Universe.

You say that this forum allows for the discussion of EU, but the majority of discussion is a bannable offense here.

If we try to warn others about someone who has scammed us, we are banned or the topic is deleted. It doesn't matter how much evidence you have, something as important as cheating is not allowed to be discussed.

Two rival socs have no place to talk trash and threaten each other about the next time they meet in pvp4; they will be banned if they try to create a spot.

People get frustrated and sometimes just need to blow off some steam, but there is no place for them to do that here.

We can't even bump a thread of a friend, something that causes absolutely no harm if the thread isn't really old. It just seems like the next rule will be "no saying gratz to someone who got an hof." It's just ridiculous.

Anything, and I mean anything, anyone says that is something bad about you, Neo, is an automatic perm ban.

You have created a place where true free speech cannot occur. You have made a place where people are too afraid to speak out about things they believe. How can you expect people to discuss EU in an environment where anything could become a bannable offense, and the most important parts of EU to discuss will get you banned?

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if this post was deleted/I was banned. The important thing is that the seed is planted, and it will spread. As you make more rules, more people will leave the forum. More people will begin to speak out against the totalitarian state of this beautiful forum. Those that love it most will be the first to speak out, as opposed to those that just love the owner.

And a quick note for the mods. I run a forum. It's not even close to the size of this one, but I understand how much time is put into one by both the admin, and the mods. There is, however, a way that you could spend more time in game and less time moderating this forum. Lighten up on the rules. You complain about having to moderate so much, and yet you are driven by the power of overmoderation that this forum has become so compliant with. Instead of the double facing, choose to either stop moderating so intensely or don't complain about having to.
 
You say that this forum allows for the discussion of EU, but the majority of discussion is a bannable offense here.

The "majority"? :confused:

That is a very excessive exaggeration.

If we try to warn others about someone who has scammed us, we are banned or the topic is deleted. It doesn't matter how much evidence you have, something as important as cheating is not allowed to be discussed.

Just as it doesn't matter how little evidence one has to trash somebody's name when a scammer section was allowed. The reasons for not allowing scamming accusations on EF are many, and are detailed in this thread:

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...9-rationale-no-naming-shaming-forum-rule.html

Nobody has ever been banned from EF for making a scamming accusation.

Two rival socs have no place to talk trash and threaten each other about the next time they meet in pvp4; they will be banned if they try to create a spot.

Once again you make a claim with no evidence. Please show me one instance of a member being banned from EF for a "soc war" thread.

People get frustrated and sometimes just need to blow off some steam, but there is no place for them to do that here.

There are literally tens of thousands of threads here on EF that are essentially "blowing off steam" about bad loots, bugs, connection issues etc. In fact, there is more "blowing off steam" here on EF than on all other Entropia community sites combined (times fifty probably).

We can't even bump a thread of a friend, something that causes absolutely no harm if the thread isn't really old. It just seems like the next rule will be "no saying gratz to someone who got an hof." It's just ridiculous.

Bumping of sales threads in the Trading forums became a big problem, as many members were using reciprocal bumps to dodge the 1 bump per 24 hour rule. This caused other members who DO follow the rules to have less of a chance for their sales threads to be seen, since the bumpers would push all those down on the thread listing.

Anything, and I mean anything, anyone says that is something bad about you, Neo, is an automatic perm ban.

Yet another claim with no evidence. As proof that what you claim here is not true, take a look at Centech's posts related to me. As far as I can recall, he has never been banned.

You have created a place where true free speech cannot occur. You have made a place where people are too afraid to speak out about things they believe. How can you expect people to discuss EU in an environment where anything could become a bannable offense, and the most important parts of EU to discuss will get you banned?

The rules of EntropiaForum are very clear. Despite the common misconception, very few permanent bans are given out to members. Those who have been permanently banned were given multiple temp bans and/or warnings for repeated violations and disruption of the community. In fact, I'd say that nearly all members who have been perm banned actually set out to get banned, and accomplished their goal.

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if this post was deleted/I was banned. The important thing is that the seed is planted, and it will spread. As you make more rules, more people will leave the forum. More people will begin to speak out against the totalitarian state of this beautiful forum. Those that love it most will be the first to speak out, as opposed to those that just love the owner.

Why would you be banned? You have not violated any forum rules. This thread is intended for members to inquire about the forum rules and offer feedback.

Your feedback is appreciated and noted. However please try to avoid spreading disinformation relating to bans from EF, as I explained above.


And a quick note for the mods. I run a forum. It's not even close to the size of this one, but I understand how much time is put into one by both the admin, and the mods. There is, however, a way that you could spend more time in game and less time moderating this forum. Lighten up on the rules. You complain about having to moderate so much, and yet you are driven by the power of overmoderation that this forum has become so compliant with. Instead of the double facing, choose to either stop moderating so intensely or don't complain about having to.

Nearly all of the EF rules have been implemented based on member feedback and complaints about a handful of unruly members disrupting the civil interaction of the EF community. For example, the new Trading forum rules were implemented mainly in response to quite a few members complaining about the inability to conduct sales threads without highjacking and interference from other members.

You also need to realize that as a forum gets bigger and more active, it becomes more of a challenge to keep the overall tone of the community civil and orderly. Compared to most forums of similar size and activity, EF gets by with only 5 people doing the admin/moderating. Most forums this size have dozens of moderators. In fact, having been a member of quite a few forums of various topics and demographics, EF is by far one of the least moderated forums I have even encountered. This is due primarily to the quality and maturity of the Entropia community, who for the most part are friendly, helpful and respectful of each other.

Most EF members never run up against the forum rules, but do benefit from the stable community those rules provide, by creating an environment that is predictable and fair for all members. Like most systems of rule and order, the large majority of the rules are needed to regulate the behavior of a very small minority of members who cannot, or choose not, to respect others.
 
The "majority"? :confused:

That is a very excessive exaggeration.

Yes, that's true. I suppose my statement should be changed a little bit to make it true. The majority of discussion about controversial, but important, issues in EU is against the rules. You won't necessarily get banned, but you could and the thread/post will be edited/deleted

Just as it doesn't matter how little evidence one has to trash somebody's name when a scammer section was allowed. The reasons for not allowing scamming accusations on EF are many, and are detailed in this thread:

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...9-rationale-no-naming-shaming-forum-rule.html

Nobody has ever been banned from EF for making a scamming accusation.

I don't care if no one has been banned. I've seen your posts on why you don't have one, but I disagree with all of them. Most of the people that would be talked about would actually be scammers. What's more important, telling newbies about scammers so that they don't fall victim to them, or saving a few people's names when they could easily be cleared by them posting there when they have no evidence.

Once again you make a claim with no evidence. Please show me one instance of a member being banned from EF for a "soc war" thread.

Well, I'm not going to take the time to search for one, but it would be considered "flaming" which you would delete it for. How many "NBK sucks" threads have there been?

There are literally tens of thousands of threads here on EF that are essentially "blowing off steam" about bad loots, bugs, connection issues etc. In fact, there is more "blowing off steam" here on EF than on all other Entropia community sites combined (times fifty probably).

Yes, and they've been locked.

Bumping of sales threads in the Trading forums became a big problem, as many members were using reciprocal bumps to dodge the 1 bump per 24 hour rule. This caused other members who DO follow the rules to have less of a chance for their sales threads to be seen, since the bumpers would push all those down on the thread listing.

1. Well good for them. More friends=more advertising=more sales
2. What's even the point of that rule? I understand maybe 1 bump every hour but every day, and that's for everyone on the thread? This forum goes fast enough because of all the members that that rule should be revised.

Yet another claim with no evidence. As proof that what you claim here is not true, take a look at Centech's posts related to me. As far as I can recall, he has never been banned.

!!!!!!!!. The word N e o v i x e n is blocked. I think that's good proof. If you want more:

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/about-entropiaforum/78688-just-wondering-why.html

You never did respond to even one of my 3 or 4 pms over the course of about a month. The thing is, everyone knows they were banned because they used that word. They said that you cheated, and you banned them for it, instead of just explaining that you didn't.

The rules of EntropiaForum are very clear. Despite the common misconception, very few permanent bans are given out to members. Those who have been permanently banned were given multiple temp bans and/or warnings for repeated violations and disruption of the community. In fact, I'd say that nearly all members who have been perm banned actually set out to get banned, and accomplished their goal.

Yes, but people do fear the mods and the admin. It doesn't matter how many times you mention that they were banned for good reason, many people won't post something out of fear of getting reprimanded. I know I've stopped writing something halfway through before because I know it would get deleted anyway. That stops free speech.

Why would you be banned? You have not violated any forum rules. This thread is intended for members to inquire about the forum rules and offer feedback.

Your feedback is appreciated and noted. However please try to avoid spreading disinformation relating to bans from EF, as I explained above.

I did not quite fear a ban, so much as being silenced. In other words, a delete. I just use the word banned a lot, I don't always mean it literally. I'll try to stop now.

Nearly all of the EF rules have been implemented based on member feedback and complaints about a handful of unruly members disrupting the civil interaction of the EF community. For example, the new Trading forum rules were implemented mainly in response to quite a few members complaining about the inability to conduct sales threads without highjacking and interference from other members.

Perhaps there was good reason for some of this hijacking. There are people that scam items, sell for high prices, and basically take advantage of other Entropians using the economy and, more importantly, the lack of knowledge in the economy.

You also need to realize that as a forum gets bigger and more active, it becomes more of a challenge to keep the overall tone of the community civil and orderly. Compared to most forums of similar size and activity, EF gets by with only 5 people doing the admin/moderating. Most forums this size have dozens of moderators. In fact, having been a member of quite a few forums of various topics and demographics, EF is by far one of the least moderated forums I have even encountered. This is due primarily to the quality and maturity of the Entropia community, who for the most part are friendly, helpful and respectful of each other.

I agree with the community part, but disagree with the moderation part. I feel there's a difference between the two that we do not see eye-to-eye on. I think of overmoderation as the creating of rules that are not necessary and end up damaging free speech. I don't see it as a matter of how much the moderators have to do, because of the community, but what they force the members to do.

Most EF members never run up against the forum rules, but do benefit from the stable community those rules provide, by creating an environment that is predictable and fair for all members. Like most systems of rule and order, the large majority of the rules are needed to regulate the behavior of a very small minority of members who cannot, or choose not, to respect others.

Yes, people do benefit from this forum. I would say the people that benefit most are the newbies. The newer players have so much to learn here and people to help them.

However, you can have an area for them and an area for the rest with different rules. You can put more rules on the newbie section to keep away flaming and people saying "n00b! i pwn j00!" but then in the other sections you can allow people to discuss the more advanced parts of EU without the scrutiny of the long list of rules here at EF. That's just one way you could reform this forum to make it more friendly for everyone. In short, some benefit from all these rules, but why not all when it can be done?
 
Apologies for breaking the quitting/leaving rule ... and no one should get preferential treatment as you say JimmyB ... however, since I provide a public service to the community through the Newsroom and otherwise, I thought it best to not just disappear, but rather make it clear that I won't be providing these services for a while due to RL choices. Will that work? ... or no? :dunno: I don't want to disrespect the forum rules! :wise:
 
Yes, that's true. I suppose my statement should be changed a little bit to make it true. The majority of discussion about controversial, but important, issues in EU is against the rules. You won't necessarily get banned, but you could and the thread/post will be edited/deleted

Again, I would argue that nearly all controversial and important topics directly related to Entropia Universe are discussed more here on EF than anywhere else. The fact that EF is far and away the most active and quickly growing communiy website it testimony to that.

I don't care if no one has been banned. I've seen your posts on why you don't have one, but I disagree with all of them.

Whether you disagree or not with the purposes of the rule prohibiting scamming accusations is not part of my consideration, to be honest. MindBuster, Jimmy B, Skam and a large portion of the EF community understand and agree with the EF policy regarding scamming accusations.

Most of the people that would be talked about would actually be scammers. What's more important, telling newbies about scammers so that they don't fall victim to them, or saving a few people's names when they could easily be cleared by them posting there when they have no evidence.

This is why it is much more effective to educate new players on how to avoid being scammed, as opposed to creating a list of "people to beware of." And this is that entire purpose of the https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...tutorials/77924-scamming-methods-exposed.html thread.

I also think you vastly underestimate how easy is it is to ruin an innocent player's reputation with a false accusation or misunderstanding. As the saying goes, a good reputation takes a long time to earn, but can be lost very quickly.

In any instance where a community develops (and especially with regard to something like EU with its real cash economy), rules prohibiting slander and/or libel become very important.


Well, I'm not going to take the time to search for one, but it would be considered "flaming" which you would delete it for. How many "NBK sucks" threads have there been?

I don't understand the point here.

Yes, and they've been locked.

Entirely untrue. I was referring to the tens of thousands of unlocked threads which are critical of EU, Mindark, etc. Again, more than all other Entropia community sites combined (x50 or 100).

1. Well good for them. More friends=more advertising=more sales
2. What's even the point of that rule? I understand maybe 1 bump every hour but every day, and that's for everyone on the thread? This forum goes fast enough because of all the members that that rule should be revised.

The point of the rule is to prevent massive amounts of unnecessary "bump wars" which arise if there is no limit to the amount of bumps in a specified time period. This has happened many times in the past, and continues to happen. Nearly every forum on the internet has rules or limitations relating to bumps, so I cannot understand why you find the EF rule so "unjust" :confused:

!!!!!!!!. The word N e o v i x e n is blocked. I think that's good proof. If you want more:

All EF members (including me) are protected from accusations of EULA violations with no proof or validity. Use of that term is a direct accusation, as you well know.

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/about-entropiaforum/78688-just-wondering-why.html

You never did respond to even one of my 3 or 4 pms over the course of about a month. The thing is, everyone knows they were banned because they used that word. They said that you cheated, and you banned them for it, instead of just explaining that you didn't.

BMW was given many temp bans and second chances (more than
any other member in the history of this forum). She was also very well aware that any further disruption of the EF community would result in a permanent ban. She intentionally antagonized me with the posting of the remarks you mention, and seemingly wanted to be banned. It's very unfair and innaccurate to claim or imply that she was banned from EF simply because of her last post.

Demoniac was temp banned for the same behavior. However, his temp ban became a permanent ban when he created a new account and posted extremely vicious flaming comments (which was a shock to me, as they were greatly out of character for him).

I have explained the circumstances of those bans several times now, and with both of them in fact. You seem to feel that any administration decisions must be explained to you, when that is not the case. This is also visible in your tone in this thread, which seems to imply that the administrators of this forum have some obligation to check with you before making decisions. Obviously that is not the case, and I'm a bit confused at why you think you should expect that.

Yes, but people do fear the mods and the admin. It doesn't matter how many times you mention that they were banned for good reason, many people won't post something out of fear of getting reprimanded. I know I've stopped writing something halfway through before because I know it would get deleted anyway. That stops free speech.

Any member who observed BWM's behavior at that time could clearly see that she was "on a mission" to get permanently banned. Perhaps she feels differently now (and I have spoken to her a couple times since then), but the fact remains that if her intention was to not finally get perm banned, then her behavior makes little sense.


Perhaps there was good reason for some of this hijacking. There are people that scam items, sell for high prices, and basically take advantage of other Entropians using the economy and, more importantly, the lack of knowledge in the economy.

The vast majority of sales threads that were highjacked were not scammed items; "selling for high prices" is not a legitimate reason to interfere with an EF member's sales thread. Members have the right to offer their items at whatever price they choose; it is up to the buyer to determine if the price is reasonable, not third parties.

It's clear that you have not been observing the EF Trading forums over the past 4-6 months, or perhaps you are once again exaggerating your examples to try to paint the EF rules as overly restrictive.

I agree with the community part, but disagree with the moderation part. I feel there's a difference between the two that we do not see eye-to-eye on. I think of overmoderation as the creating of rules that are not necessary and end up damaging free speech. I don't see it as a matter of how much the moderators have to do, because of the community, but what they force the members to do.

You may feel the forum rules are unnecessary, but a large part of the EF members actually asked for these rules. Again, you seem to feel that your opinion should have more weight than that of the admins and moderators who deal with these problems on a daily basis, and the very active EF members who have requested these rules.


Yes, people do benefit from this forum. I would say the people that benefit most are the newbies. The newer players have so much to learn here and people to help them.

However, you can have an area for them and an area for the rest with different rules. You can put more rules on the newbie section to keep away flaming and people saying "n00b! i pwn j00!" but then in the other sections you can allow people to discuss the more advanced parts of EU without the scrutiny of the long list of rules here at EF. That's just one way you could reform this forum to make it more friendly for everyone. In short, some benefit from all these rules, but why not all when it can be done?

If you feel that you can create a better forum for the EU community, then of course you are free to do so.

I and the EF staff try our best to provide an EU community resource that is useful, friendly and informative for as large a portion of the Entropia player base as possible. Based on the amount of activity on and growth of EF in the last 2 years, as well as the overwhelming positive feedback from members, I think we have done a good job with that mission, and will strive to continue to do so.

If you find EF to be too restrictive or otherwise not suited to your preference, then you are of course free to not visit or participate. However, if you choose to do so, then you are expected to abide the forum rules just as every other member.
 
Apologies for breaking the quitting/leaving rule ... and no one should get preferential treatment as you say JimmyB ... however, since I provide a public service to the community through the Newsroom and otherwise, I thought it best to not just disappear, but rather make it clear that I won't be providing these services for a while due to RL choices. Will that work? ... or no? :dunno: I don't want to disrespect the forum rules! :wise:

I'll put you down as inactive staff-wise on the staff thread, let me know when you want that changed back.

A thread saying you won't be acting as a reporter for a while should be fine. You know the rules.

What's more important, telling newbies about scammers so that they don't fall victim to them, or saving a few people's names when they could easily be cleared by them posting there when they have no evidence.

I'm not going to have a long discussion on this again, obviously there's differing opinions on the matter.

But with regard to newbs, a list of scammers is useless, they won't be memorising a list of names to avoid. Scam methods are what is important for newbs to be aware of, and we have plenty of threads documenting them.

1. Well good for them. More friends=more advertising=more sales
2. What's even the point of that rule? I understand maybe 1 bump every hour but every day, and that's for everyone on the thread? This forum goes fast enough because of all the members that that rule should be revised.

Why should people with more friends be allowed to monopolise the front-page of the sales forum?

The rule ensures everyones thread spends a bit of time on the front-page, and also ensures the New Posts list of threads isn't continually dominated by threads which have no real new content.

Perhaps there was good reason for some of this hijacking. There are people that scam items, sell for high prices, and basically take advantage of other Entropians using the economy and, more importantly, the lack of knowledge in the economy.

That's a nice soundbite, but it doesn't really apply to the situation. Whether a sales thread gets trashed or not largely depends on the value of the item being sold. Big item-->big price discusssion-->disagreement-->trashed sales thread.

Scamming should be dealt with through MA and/or RL authorities. False marketing in sales thread should be reported and will be dealt with.

Other than that people have the right to sell what they own at a price of their choosing.
 
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I'll put you down as inactive staff-wise on the staff thread, let me know when you want that changed back.

A thread saying you're won't be acting as a reporter for a while should be fine. You know the rules.

Ok ... and yes I do, but thank you for reminding me! :D
 
This is why it is much more effective to educate new players on how to avoid being scammed, as opposed to creating a list of "people to beware of." And this is that entire purpose of the https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...tutorials/77924-scamming-methods-exposed.html thread.

It's more than scamming. What about market manipulators. We should look out for them and make sure not to buy from them. The problem is that you can inform people if they are discussing a trade, but you can't really inform people about every price.

In any instance where a community develops (and especially with regard to something like EU with its real cash economy), rules prohibiting slander and/or libel become very important.

I agree, however I think there is a difference between slander and accusations.

I don't understand the point here.

Sorry, I'll try to explain better. I didn't feel like looking through the pages for a soc war that was locked. However, I remember there were a lot of threads going against The NBK back in the day(like 2-3 years ago) all in a row. They ended up getting locked.

Entirely untrue. I was referring to the tens of thousands of unlocked threads which are critical of EU, Mindark, etc. Again, more than all other Entropia community sites combined (x50 or 100).

Well then it looks like the mods aren't doing their job covering Rule 2.9. ;)


The point of the rule is to prevent massive amounts of unnecessary "bump wars" which arise if there is no limit to the amount of bumps in a specified time period. This has happened many times in the past, and continues to happen. Nearly every forum on the internet has rules or limitations relating to bumps, so I cannot understand why you find the EF rule so "unjust" :confused:

Well it's not so much that you have the rule, more that it's a whole day when this forum has enough people to run faster than that. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that rule from years ago when it was a bit slower? It's grown enough that I just think it might be a good idea to update it with a faster time. If you disagree, that's fine, it's not really a passion that I'm going to keep arguing for.

All EF members (including me) are protected from accusations of EULA violations with no proof or validity. Use of that term is a direct accusation, as you well know.

But you don't think something like that should at least be discussed? Not necessarily that one instance in particular, but things like that should be discussed or else you are destroying free speech.

I have explained the circumstances of those bans several times now, and with both of them in fact. You seem to feel that any administration decisions must be explained to you, when that is not the case. This is also visible in your tone in this thread, which seems to imply that the administrators of this forum have some obligation to check with you before making decisions. Obviously that is not the case, and I'm a bit confused at why you think you should expect that.

I'm sorry if that's the tone it seemed like I was using. I did not mean to make that tone. I was just pointing out a single example that I happened to be involved in. And I wasn't trying to say that I think you need to explain it to me, but you did say in the thread that I should pm you for further explanation, and you never answered my pms.

Any member who observed BWM's behavior at that time could clearly see that she was "on a mission" to get permanently banned. Perhaps she feels differently now (and I have spoken to her a couple times since then), but the fact remains that if her intention was to not finally get perm banned, then her behavior makes little sense.

I was not referring to BWM. I was referring to the fact that people fear the admins and mods, in general. That stops free speech.

The vast majority of sales threads that were highjacked were not scammed items; "selling for high prices" is not a legitimate reason to interfere with an EF member's sales thread. Members have the right to offer their items at whatever price they choose; it is up to the buyer to determine if the price is reasonable, not third parties.

But you said that we should inform the people about scamming instead of naming scammers. Doesn't it also make sense, then, that we should educated people about the price of items, instead of watching as a market manipulator sells another overpriced item to someone how doesn't know any better.

It's clear that you have not been observing the EF Trading forums over the past 4-6 months, or perhaps you are once again exaggerating your examples to try to paint the EF rules as overly restrictive.

Oh, I'll admit I haven't. I'm going off what I heard in that area.

You may feel the forum rules are unnecessary, but a large part of the EF members actually asked for these rules. Again, you seem to feel that your opinion should have more weight than that of the admins and moderators who deal with these problems on a daily basis, and the very active EF members who have requested these rules.

I'm not saying that my voice should carry anymore weight, just that you shouldn't completely disregard everything I'm saying.

If you feel that you can create a better forum for the EU community, then of course you are free to do so.

There's a bit of a money issue standing in my way. :p

Why should people with more friends be allowed to monopolise the front-page of the sales forum?

They shouldn't, but they should be able to bump more than once per day.

That's a nice soundbite, but it doesn't really apply to the situation. Whether a sales thread gets trashed or not largely depends on the value of the item being sold. Big item-->big price discusssion-->disagreement-->trashed sales thread.

Yes, but many people don't know the price of big items. And you can't look on any website because there aren't enough sold to give accurate numbers. The only way to protect people is by discussing what the price should be.
 
Well then it looks like the mods aren't doing their job covering Rule 2.9. ;)

The rule uses the term 'excessive', which obviously brings it down to a judgement call. We're well aware people need to vent from time to time (indeed, you'll find a few posts from me moaning about loot every once in a while), but if you need to vent all the time then you'd probably be better off with a different hobby. For instance, we have one user who insists on spoiling people's HoF threads with whining about how he never gets HoFs (despite the fact he has actually had a rather large one in the past) - I don't think its unreasonable to remove those posts so that people can enjoy their HoF congratulation thread in peace.

Yes, but many people don't know the price of big items. And you can't look on any website because there aren't enough sold to give accurate numbers. The only way to protect people is by discussing what the price should be.

There's nothing to stop people discussing what price an item is worth. There's a whole subforum for it.

All that we ask is that it is done in that subforum, and not on a seller's thread. No-one is going to buy a big item on the basis of one thread without doing any research, and a simple search will bring up the PriceCheck threads.
 
Interesting read; there seems to be a misunderstanding of what forum actually means: "a public meeting place for open discussion". The definition is the same, according to a few reputable sources.

Your guys effort (Admins & Mods) are clearly appreciated; unfortunately, the roles seem to be degenerating somehow; the worst mistake in my opinion is to think that automatically an "Admin" or a "Moderator" is waaaaaay smarter than anyone else on a forum they own (name-wise). This is bad in my book.

The second big issue I have, is telling people to get lost if they don't like it; this is ALWAYS the last resort when left without valid arguments.
I understand that this forum takes a lot of work to maintain, and I appreciate that (a LOT); however, without being mean, I would like to remind you that YOU choose to do it! Nobody forced you; you knew what this entails. We can respectfully tell you the same thing: if you don't like being an Admin/Mod, well... quit.

I can only hope that all the Admins/Mods will understand my point; to further exemplify where my thoughts are, please read my signature... it says it all. And it's coming from a pretty smart guy :laugh:.
 
Interesting read; there seems to be a misunderstanding of what forum actually means: "a public meeting place for open discussion". The definition is the same, according to a few reputable sources.

The majority of the rules do not limit discussion at all, just how you behave. Most of them are not that different from rules and etiquette RL communities impose on themselves.

Those rules that do impose some restriction on discussion are there for reasons which we explain and discuss regularly.

the worst mistake in my opinion is to think that automatically an "Admin" or a "Moderator" is waaaaaay smarter than anyone else on a forum they own

I don't think anyone on the staff here thinks like that. The whole point of a forum is sharing knowledge with each other so that everyone benefits.

The second big issue I have, is telling people to get lost if they don't like it; this is ALWAYS the last resort when left without valid arguments.

No-one is told to get lost if they don't like it. Hence these discussions we have here, and all the PMs we respond to when queried about rules and the reasons for them.

In terms of rules there's a difference between 'not liking it', and choosing to break them. You don't have to like the rules to go on using EF. There's a few rules I don't particularly 'like' but that have proven necessary. The only way you'll get told to get lost, eventually, would be if you continually refuse to abide by the rules. That is very different to not liking them.

I understand that this forum takes a lot of work to maintain, and I appreciate that (a LOT). However, without being mean, I would like to remind you that YOU choose to do it! Nobody forced you; you knew what this entails. We can respectfully tell you the same thing: if you don't like being an Admin/Mod, well... quit.

Well, it'd be a shame if EF just vanished...

Anyway yes, we choose to do it of course, and in the most part I quite enjoy it. Most of the work of moderating isn't about searching out rule violations and deleting posts/banning people, its about helping people out, answering questions, keeping things 'tidy' (appropriate thread titles, threads in the right place, images not so large they mess up the layout of the forum, etc).

But I don't think its unreasonable for us to try to mitigate against certain things that take up too much time. This is the case for instance with the recent changes to the trading forum rules that's under so much discussion at the moment. I would say over 75% of 'actual moderation' (sorting out squabbles, deleting posts, etc) originates in the trading subforums and our time would be better spent on other areas of the forum.

The essence of the trading rules existed before but we were much more lenient about it, and it got abused continually. So in the end the rules were tightened up. Nevertheless, the changes didn't prohibit any topic of discussion, they just stipulate which part of the forum you should use for that discussion.
 
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It's more than scamming. What about market manipulators. We should look out for them and make sure not to buy from them. The problem is that you can inform people if they are discussing a trade, but you can't really inform people about every price.

Thus the PriceCheck section ;) Anyone, not just the holder of the item, can open a thread in the PriceCheck section, and if members are unsure of the price of an item they'd do wise to check there first.

Mostly the items being traded over EF are higher end items or bulk sales, so people putting that much money in usually take the time to check out what it really is worth.
 
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