Question: Skill gains vs Mob toughness?

I did search but couldn't find any information. Two or three years ago Marco said something about gaining more skills for hunting mobs more appropriate to your level. I've been gone a year, has anything been said about this? I seem to be getting more skills from high level Molisks than I did from high level Argo.

And if that is true, has anyone made a chart on how the mobs rank? I've seen the mob ladder thread but it only lists them by type, not level. In other words, just Molisk and not Molist Guardian or Leader.

I think he might have been referring to hunting mobs your level, with your level SIB weapons.
Some mobs just give butt-loads of skills just because they do, but usually that is at a sacrifice of loot, or you have to have some serious skills/equipment to hunt there *cough* CP *cough*.

I guess mobs have diffrent attributes so it all depends on what kind of skills you are looking for.

The killbonus is worth a lot if you look for skills for yourself, meaning lower health pretty strong dmg mobs are good.
But. the aliens at CP seems to give a lot of agi on the other hand.

Tbh i would let some of those with pure info of doom tell you this (doer, jimmy ehm. well pretty much anyone but me)
^^

I just live in my own world.

now im going to eat sushi, have been all day at zei spa. <3 been awsome. kiss n love

I have noted sometimes getting a huge amount of skill at some point in time, but never got to identify the mob(s) as it was part of a 2-3kped run.

You are able to track them yourself - the thing is it may be individual mob giving more skills to an individual avatar.

Learn to use this
http://jdegre.net/pe/scanner/

Takes about 1min to give complete scan. If I am to go on a hunting session on one particular mob, I wil take.
After scan you are given two summary outputs: total skill, and skill volume.
Standard skill increase turns out to be 10ped of skill volume for every 1kped spend (this is for me, no one else). I keep a running track of these, and use it to note if I gain a lot of skill volume from one mob to the next. As for certain maturities? hard to tell. I still have lots of testing on skillgains to go.

Immortal said:

I have noted sometimes getting a huge amount of skill at some point in time, but never got to identify the mob(s) as it was part of a 2-3kped run.

You are able to track them yourself - the thing is it may be individual mob giving more skills to an individual avatar.

Learn to use this
http://jdegre.net/pe/scanner/

Takes about 1min to give complete scan. If I am to go on a hunting session on one particular mob, I wil take.
After scan you are given two summary outputs: total skill, and skill volume.
Standard skill increase turns out to be 10ped of skill volume for every 1kped spend (this is for me, no one else). I keep a running track of these, and use it to note if I gain a lot of skill volume from one mob to the next. As for certain maturities? hard to tell. I still have lots of testing on skillgains to go.

Click to expand...

I have the skill scanner and I take the info quite often. I'm also hunting single mob areas right now. Argo last month, Molisk this month. I'm not sure what you are saying for checking though.

Dino said:

I have the skill scanner and I take the info quite often. I'm also hunting single mob areas right now. Argo last month, Molisk this month. I'm not sure what you are saying for checking though.

Click to expand...

In the above picture, I have logged my expenditures elsewhere, and can easily compare the TT value of skill gained per ped spent.

Dino said:

I seem to be getting more skills from high level Molisks than I did from high level Argo.

Click to expand...

Molisk stats were adjusted(maybe HP and regen not sure) not to long ago so that might be due to the increased skill gain while Argos are still the same.

I have noticed that sometimes when I hunt low lvl mobs it will still "rain" skills but the increase in actual stats just isnt there, also the reverse is true for me hunting higher lvl mobs, some times hardly any gains but the few I get I can actually see a difference.

If you have ever done a bit of crafting you might notice that making filters compared to making OA-101 amps, both are lvl 1 bps but the skill gain for the amp is allot more. This has been attributed to value per click.

Isn't this the rule of thumb:

The more a click costs, the more skill it can potentially give?

Immortal said:

In the above picture, I have logged my expenditures elsewhere, and can easily compare the TT value of skill gained per ped spent.

Click to expand...

OH! I understand you now. Thanks for the tip. I'll check that.

I'm glad to see I didn't get a rousing "STFU n00b" for this post. I see it's not common knowledge at least and it don't look like anyone has done research on it either

I did some interesting research thiss last week. Too small to be conclusive but still interesting and worth further work.

I hunted the Argo area East of Oshira up in the Leader/Warror area. I did three trips of 300 PED ammo. I keep track of skill gains and my skills went from 120460 to 120609 for a total skill gain of 149.

The I did the same size hunts in the Molisk area south of Oshira of Molisk. It has Leaders on down. I admit I only shoot 1 out of 3 Leaders since they tend to leave you alone and I die sometimes against them (I don't like dying.) But it's solid Molisk just like the other area is solid Argo. My skills went from 120609 to 120852 for a total skill gain of 243.

That's a dramatic difference in skill gains for the same amount of ammo hunted.

Been noticing the same myself... there's some lower mobs that just don't count any skill green lines for me... no matter how many or how varied in numbers i'm being hit... if it's under Argo Hunter, almost no skill gains in combat prof.

Maybe someone has made some extensive testing and would like to add something here?

Dino said:

I did some interesting research thiss last week. Too small to be conclusive but still interesting and worth further work.

I hunted the Argo area East of Oshira up in the Leader/Warror area. I did three trips of 300 PED ammo. I keep track of skill gains and my skills went from 120460 to 120609 for a total skill gain of 149.

The I did the same size hunts in the Molisk area south of Oshira of Molisk. It has Leaders on down. I admit I only shoot 1 out of 3 Leaders since they tend to leave you alone and I die sometimes against them (I don't like dying.) But it's solid Molisk just like the other area is solid Argo. My skills went from 120609 to 120852 for a total skill gain of 243.

That's a dramatic difference in skill gains for the same amount of ammo hunted.

Click to expand...

I have notcied fluctuations at one time or another... depending on how much your armor decya (for evade) or your Fap is used (for paramedic) may also affect those skills. Also skills don't seem to be perfectly matching to the exact mob you hunt...there is some carryover. I did some long term tests at cp, and while the skill value increased at different intervals, the TT value seeemd to remain consistent. Every now and then I will get much more skill volume than I am able to explain.

As an example to what you may have notcied, if you use handgun, maybe your serendipity/coolness/combat sense improved a bit more than usual, compared to handgun skill (which would move slower if it were 7000 compared to 2,3,4000 of the other skills)

Nice info immortal. +rep

Immortal said:

I have notcied fluctuations at one time or another... depending on how much your armor decya (for evade) or your Fap is used (for paramedic) may also affect those skills. Also skills don't seem to be perfectly matching to the exact mob you hunt...there is some carryover. I did some long term tests at cp, and while the skill value increased at different intervals, the TT value seeemd to remain consistent. Every now and then I will get much more skill volume than I am able to explain.

As an example to what you may have notcied, if you use handgun, maybe your serendipity/coolness/combat sense improved a bit more than usual, compared to handgun skill (which would move slower if it were 7000 compared to 2,3,4000 of the other skills)

Click to expand...

I did more research. (Warning, lots of numbers to follow but I'll try to sumerize. I put them so people can show where I'm wrong )

I hunted Molisk first:

600 PED of ammo, total skills at start 121082 and at end 121231 for a total of 149 gain.

Than Argonauts:

600 PED of ammo total skills went from 121307 to 121402 for 95. Once again a sizable difference.

Now, the details. This is kind of messy as I can't cut-n-paste from excel to here cleanly but this is all the skills that changed on the Molisk hunt.

Health 155.58 Health 155.7 0.12
Alertness 3446.32 Alertness 3446.7 0.38
Athletics 4017.04 Athletics 4017.46 0.42
Coolness 3338.88 Coolness 3349.93 11.05
Courage 4237.54 Courage 4240.91 3.37
Dexterity 3685.45 Dexterity 3691.11 5.66
Perception 3357.24 Perception 3357.73 0.49
Serendipity 4089.93 Serendipity 4099.85 9.92
Aim 4712.66 Aim 4715.41 2.75
Combat Reflexes 4423.93 Combat Reflexes 4426.01 2.08
Combat Sense 1804.43 Combat Sense 1845.25 40.82
Inflict Ranged Damage 3959.59 Inflict Ranged Damage 3963.77 4.18
Marksmanship 5809.32 Marksmanship 5820.15 10.83
Ranged Damage Assessment 5101.45 Ranged Damage Assessment 5112.35 10.9
Rifle 6592.79 Rifle 6601.14 8.35
Weapons Handling 4801.66 Weapons Handling 4810.91 9.25
Avoidance 1370.8 Avoidance 1374.49 3.69
Evade 3669.83 Evade 3672.29 2.46
Anatomy 5834.39 Anatomy 5844.5 10.11
Diagnosis 1399.25 Diagnosis 1399.76 0.51
First Aid 2610.35 First Aid 2611.24 0.89
Medicine 212.56 Medicine 214.1 1.54
BLP Weaponry Technology 6484.57 BLP Weaponry Technology 6491.76 7.19
Psychotropy 256.07 Psychotropy 258.28 2.21

And on the Argo hunt:

Health 155.7 Health 155.76 Attributes 0.06
Alertness 3446.7 Alertness 3447.38 General 0.68
Athletics 4017.46 Athletics 4018.12 General 0.66
Coolness 3349.93 Coolness 3355.35 General 5.42
Courage 4240.91 Courage 4244.9 General 3.99
Dexterity 3691.11 Dexterity 3693.14 General 2.03
Perception 3357.73 Perception 3359.73 General 2
Serendipity 4099.85 Serendipity 4106.11 General 6.26
Aim 4715.41 Aim 4716.75 Combat 1.34
Combat Reflexes 4426.01 Combat Reflexes 4427.69 Combat 1.68
Combat Sense 1845.25 Combat Sense 1868.84 Combat 23.59
Inflict Ranged Damage 3963.77 Inflict Ranged Damage 3966.84 Combat 3.07
Marksmanship 5820.15 Marksmanship 5824.65 Combat 4.5
Ranged Damage Assessment 5112.35 Ranged Damage Assessment 5118.8 Combat 6.45
Rifle 6601.14 Rifle 6605.48 Combat 4.34
Weapons Handling 4810.91 Weapons Handling 4814.67 Combat 3.76
Avoidance 1374.49 Avoidance 1377.31 Defense 2.82
Evade 3672.29 Evade 3674.17 Defense 1.88
Anatomy 5844.5 Anatomy 5849.43 Medical 4.93
Diagnosis 1399.76 Diagnosis 1400.07 Medical 0.31
First Aid 2611.24 First Aid 2611.73 Medical 0.49
Medicine 214.1 Medicine 217.13 Medical 3.03
BLP Weaponry Technology 6491.76 BLP Weaponry Technology 6497.46 Construction 5.7
Concentration 93.81 Concentration 96.56 Mindforce 2.75
Psychotropy 258.28 Psychotropy 261.24 Mindforce 2.96


The last number is how much the change. So it's skill name, skill start, skill name, skill end, amount changed.

The main differences in hunting these two are 1 TP jump for Molisk and two after each death for Argo (so more concentration and Psychotropy for Argo, athough very little), the hunting area for Argo is more conducive for ranged weapons for theoretically I go hit less plus Argo hit rate is less than Molisk so more FAPing. As for cost, I have an Imp FAP so repair of the FAP is negligable and anyway, repair was roughly 90 PED on all trips (2 trips for each mob this time.)

I can't really think of any more info. It really does seem I gain more skills on the Molisks. I'm open to ideas and thoeries.



*Note, I'm not complaining about the Argo. After two 15k+ HoF this year they have treated me very well

Dino, what about the loot?

Since you got less skills from argo could it be that you got more loot instead compared to the molisks?

Maybe the less skill gain is compensated by more loot?

1 question I have always asked myself.

I know that the TT value of the loot is harly equal to the TT value of my expenditures (unless there is a nice HOF, but we do not count HOF). But whether

Value of loot + Value of skill gain exceeds Expenditures

Sometimes, loot can be suck, but we still have skills. If we sell skills, could we get the money back ?

We need some serious research on this.

wizz said:

Dino, what about the loot?

Since you got less skills from argo could it be that you got more loot instead compared to the molisks?

Maybe the less skill gain is compensated by more loot?

Click to expand...

As Marco so famously said once, "PE is dynamic" and I don't think keeping track of loot is worth the effort. Loot changes hour to hour so it could be good everywhere when I was hunting one and bad everywhere when I hunt the other. Or good on Molisk while I'm hunting them but bad on Argo when I'm hunting them.

After 5 years I've given up trying to "figure out" the looting trends. I leave that to others.

What my "research" doesn't prove is if it's just that Molisk give more skills than Argo or if at my skill level they give more skills or if with my type of equipment they give more skills.

Dino said:

What my "research" doesn't prove is if it's just that Molisk give more skills than Argo or if at my skill level they give more skills or if with my type of equipment they give more skills.

Click to expand...

I think is more about finding your "level". In a bunch of mmos I played, existed say "law of white numbers". We'd have mobs too weak for you, say coloured in gray, mobs of your level, coloured in white and mobs way stronger, coloured in red. When I say coloured, I am reffering to their name. Best skillgain was on white mob. Now color all their names in same colour, hide the avatar's level and, there, we have EU

I don't think skillgain is triggered by expense, but by effect of expense. Say if I use maddox 4 spending X peds in ammo+decay to produce 2500 dmg and if I use om2875 spending Y peds in ammo+decay to produce 2500 dmg, where X!=Y, then skillgain would be the same. Same for amour, if I use shadow to protect 20 dmg or if I use pixie, evade skillgain would be the same. At least in my experience.

Another addenda, still from my experience: (L) armours seem to behave like having some hidden evade bonus, and in same measure provide less defensive skillgains. And, ofc, maxed (L) weps suck at skilling. Don't shoot me too hard, only my observations.

For armours, using same p5a+a104, allo young would hit me 0 to 3 times using zombie (L), while in shogun+2a, I'd have up to 6 hits. Might be just the good old sinusoid of good day-bad day-EU, if somebody is patient enough to actually make some solid measurement would be nice.

Very interesting thread; I have one thing to add. For me, skill gain is mostly related to the weapon I use. If I hunt Kerberos for example, using Opalo, I get very little skill; every so often, I use a better weapon for 1-2 shoots. Those 1-2 shoots are 90% skill gains.
I have done this long enough to be sure.

Kerham said:

I think is more about finding your "level". In a bunch of mmos I played, existed say "law of white numbers". We'd have mobs too weak for you, say coloured in gray, mobs of your level, coloured in white and mobs way stronger, coloured in red. When I say coloured, I am reffering to their name. Best skillgain was on white mob. Now color all their names in same colour, hide the avatar's level and, there, we have EU

Click to expand...

I'm thinking the same thing. I guess to test it someone needs to hunt high level of a certain mob and then low level of that same mob and compare the results.

And this is why I was asking if there was a "hierarchy chart" for mobs so you could work your way up the chart.

jjmatrix said:

Very interesting thread; I have one thing to add. For me, skill gain is mostly related to the weapon I use. If I hunt Kerberos for example, using Opalo, I get very little skill; every so often, I use a better weapon for 1-2 shoots. Those 1-2 shoots are 90% skill gains.
I have done this long enough to be sure.

Click to expand...

Based on my bad memory of Marco-speak I think this is supposed to be true. But I have no idea when he said it or what he said and plans could have changed so my memory has no veracity.

EWE Military

I Use EWE-military to hunt the drones and the warrior gen.01-05.
It gives me alot of skillpoints and I dont know why, but It did today + 2 globals in 3 hours, SO I guess It is good to watch your skillgain.

Another thing I got 6 or 8 perception skills.(in 3 minutes) Can someone tell me why?

hunt at your lvl.

Immortal said:

In the above picture, I have logged my expenditures elsewhere, and can easily compare the TT value of skill gained per ped spent.

Click to expand...

Thats a good tip!
I actually learned something new today and from Immortal

travrevyen said:

I Use EWE-military to hunt the drones and the warrior gen.01-05.
It gives me alot of skillpoints and I dont know why, but It did today + 2 globals in 3 hours, SO I guess It is good to watch your skillgain.

Another thing I got 6 or 8 perception skills.(in 3 minutes) Can someone tell me why?

Click to expand...

It was your lucky "dynamic" day; try it again today and let me know of your results.

travrevyen said:

I Use EWE-military to hunt the drones and the warrior gen.01-05.
It gives me alot of skillpoints and I dont know why, but It did today + 2 globals in 3 hours, SO I guess It is good to watch your skillgain.

Another thing I got 6 or 8 perception skills.(in 3 minutes) Can someone tell me why?

Click to expand...

Green text saying you gained experience does not equate to number increase in your stats. You have to check the numbers to know HOW MUCH experience you gained.

SODERD said:

hunt at your lvl.

Click to expand...

Well, thanks. But how do you know what your level is or what mobs match your level.

In other words... duh, that's the whole point of this topic! lol


I'm surprised no one else is interested in pursing this. Lots of reaserch possibilities that needs to be done. Especially if it's even true, if different levels of mobs matter or if it's just species, if weapons really do matter of it if just seems that way, etc.