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Eyecandy vs Intelligence

Nirfu

Nirfu

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Nirfu Nirfu Merlin
Is good graphics important for the success of a game? If we look at the game market in a hardware point of view. PS3 and Xbox 360 has the most impresive graphical capabilties available. On the second spot we find Wii, PS2 and PC(yes you can spend a fortune on a high end graphic card, but the biig mass doesn't do that).
If people was all in for good graphics the game developers would focus on releasing games on the PS3 and 360 platform. If we look at what really sells and on what platforms new game titles are released on we see that most of the big sellers actually still is running on PS2, Wii and PC. IMO that prooves that the regular player doesn't care for eyecandy. So what is the thing that sells games? - It's the gameplay, how fun the game is to play.

I'm not against CryEngine2 but when that's implemented the eyecandy must have a stop. CryEngine will not bring new blood or money to this platform. They must focus on the gameplay. I hope they have eyes opened for other more important add ons such as mob AI's. The market for game developers offers much more than fancy graphics. There are lots of so called middleware which could help MA to get the mobs to behave more clever and in the same time add more fun. Imagine a beacon where you where afraid of the cunningness of the oncomming droids instead of a crit hit. Or a mob that had more than run or attack in it's AI toolbox. Surcomvent you, team up, stand ground and shoot from long range while another attach from the flank. Mobs that adapted to the situation. There is so much possible if MA could add a better mob AI.
 
have you tried the Crysis demo?
the realistic gameplay will have an effect on the growth of Entropia
we already have something very unique and I don't think this can be measured using the yardstick they use on "Games"

we are a virtual world . . .
in all my travels and adventures in a myriad of such worlds this one is unlike all the others in the potential available and possible

newer players have become more demanding, they want enthralling, realistic play that leaves wanting to explore . . . these are the true adventurers . . . those who do not need the pap served by the grindmill games

plus, have you noticed the change of flow in MA's communication . . . and the involvement they have shown? we can only hope this continues, as it is one of the catalysts that will drive this universe of ours ever higher!

the AI change you mention would help, but at this point this will be something that will probably be addressed with the change to Cryengine.
I too wish they would just tweak them a little "sigh"

jewels

;>
 
As mentioned in the first post, I'm not against the CE2, it will be great for the game. But if you look how much Crysis actually sells, even though it has good graphics and nice feeling, it isn't a blockbuster. The engine in it self is not enough. You need quality fun inside. And I just ask that MA focus on that part. Drawing an example with mob AI's. When the CE2 is implemented they need to focus on the more important stuff.
 
I tend to think a big change to the mob AI, while keeping the goals that MA are trying to accomplish may prove to be a difficult task.

I fully agree with you that to make the gameplay more entertaining, the mob AI would need to get redone, and I think a change to the control system would also need to take place. The things you talk about implementing sound like moving EU to more of a modern first person shooter than it is today. I for one would be all for this, but to make this work would require some major innovation.

The way the current system is, the combat is very linear. Once you engage a mob or the mob locks onto you, you are stuck into a battle that occurs on a direct line between you and the mob. You could almost think of it like a fighting game for example where it's in 3D, but you fight on a 2D plane. There is no strafing or running backwards. Your only real viable options when it comes to movement are to run towards the mob, slowly back up as the mob closes in on you, or turn and run as the mob follows directly on your tail.

What this forces you into is either to face the mob, or turn and run. If you face the mob, you will incur decay for attacking it and if you're wearing armor, for when you get hit. This option assures that MA will receive their decay fees for engaging a mob.

I think to implement smarter mobs, the player would need better control options. Better control options in the hands of skilled FPS players may actually cause MA to lose money. However they may pick up that slack from the extra hits that unskilled players would no doubt incur.

I'm not sure if MA really wants to take the game towards a more FPS type game, and I'm not sure how the player base would react toward such a move. I myself would enjoy it, as I'm sure others would too, but I'm not sure if that opinion is shared by the masses...
 
DoubleWolf said:
I tend to think a big change to the mob AI, while keeping the goals that MA are trying to accomplish may prove to be a difficult task.

I fully agree with you that to make the gameplay more entertaining, the mob AI would need to get redone, and I think a change to the control system would also need to take place. The things you talk about implementing sound like moving EU to more of a modern first person shooter than it is today. I for one would be all for this, but to make this work would require some major innovation.

The way the current system is, the combat is very linear. Once you engage a mob or the mob locks onto you, you are stuck into a battle that occurs on a direct line between you and the mob. You could almost think of it like a fighting game for example where it's in 3D, but you fight on a 2D plane. There is no strafing or running backwards. Your only real viable options when it comes to movement are to run towards the mob, slowly back up as the mob closes in on you, or turn and run as the mob follows directly on your tail.

What this forces you into is either to face the mob, or turn and run. If you face the mob, you will incur decay for attacking it and if you're wearing armor, for when you get hit. This option assures that MA will receive their decay fees for engaging a mob.

I think to implement smarter mobs, the player would need better control options. Better control options in the hands of skilled FPS players may actually cause MA to lose money. However they may pick up that slack from the extra hits that unskilled players would no doubt incur.

I'm not sure if MA really wants to take the game towards a more FPS type game, and I'm not sure how the player base would react toward such a move. I myself would enjoy it, as I'm sure others would too, but I'm not sure if that opinion is shared by the masses...
Click to expand...

What I propose is a change of the mob AI using software from the shelf, like the BINK videp system, the ragdoll thing they implemented there is a hole shelf filled with AI middleware to add on existing platforms. Today the game making isn't like in the beginning, much of the stuff you need can be bought, you don't need to invent it by yourself.
And I think a change to the mob AI should maybe be implemented on just a small portion of the mob, so Instead of the todays big mobs with high HP and high damage, you could face more clever mobs. This would need you to bring the right type of equioment and a totally new way of hunting them. Today it is like you describe in all mobs. Some divercety would be nice.
 
Nirfu said:
What I propose is a change of the mob AI using software from the shelf, like the BINK videp system, the ragdoll thing they implemented there is a hole shelf filled with AI middleware to add on existing platforms. Today the game making isn't like in the beginning, much of the stuff you need can be bought, you don't need to invent it by yourself.
And I think a change to the mob AI should maybe be implemented on just a small portion of the mob, so Instead of the todays big mobs with high HP and high damage, you could face more clever mobs. This would need you to bring the right type of equioment and a totally new way of hunting them. Today it is like you describe in all mobs. Some divercety would be nice.
Click to expand...

I actually never thought about that idea and I'm completely with you there.
Wouldn't it be great to have some advanced intelligence monsters running around where you do actually need a strategy to attack and kill them instead of just putting on your armor and tank them?

There are many possibilties, to get back on the main point about graphics/gameplay I think both play a big role, at least for me they do.
I've been playing Entropia for 4 years now and that's all because of what the game offers me, the graphics are way behind on basically every other game but I kept playing it cause I like it.
Games like CS1.6 for example I simply don't play because the graphics hurt my eyes! That's where the graphics part gets important to me. I really love to see CE2 with Entropia, it will most likely satisfy me on the graphical part too.
And who doesn't want to say, I'm playing the best graphical MMO available, yes I hope it will be that way.
 
CryEngine2 isn't just eye-candy, it should also open up for a lot more of these stuff, and being a top-of-the-line modern graphics engine, it ensures compatibility with a lot of middleware, and I'm sure the middleware providers are very keen to support CryEngine 2.

MA has always claimed they aim for a realistic world, and I too would love to see a lot more "intelligence" out there.

I don't think it at all means the game will be more FPS-like, it just means you will get even more immersed in the world, when it feels _alive_.

Chirpies flying around singing, a herd of allos slowly walking by walking out in the water and start catching some fish, a foul hiding in a bush looking at you, but disappearing as soon as you turn towards it, phasm sneaking around in the vegetation, punching at you 3 at a time, strange sounds and glowing eyes from atrax sneaking around your campsite in the dark of the night, but keeping their distance, atrox starting circling you, and run at you a couple at a time from different directions, etc etc.

These things aren't very hard to implement, takes time, yes, and certainly add some server load, but can be done relatively simple with still a great effect, just extending the current system with more modes then "stand around" and "run and die" (and an extra do-something like the trox roar or the exa digesting :) )
 
All (or at least almost all) of the most popular games of all time was created before the "graphics" era. How is that possible when most people today find it so important that the graphics is high end?

Well, it just proves that those people are wrong. When the gaming industry first started out, high end graphics wasn't an option so instead they focused on gameplay.

Gameplay IS more important. Aside from guitar heroes, I can't remember that I've played any game created within the last ten year for a significant amount of time. Sure, Cryengine will be cool and all, but it'll probably also mean that I'll have to buy a new computer, which I can't affort. So while Cryengine might be cool and all, it's not important and I'd rather the forgot about it.
 
Eyecandy isn't all but it is important. How many people would be playing the game if it was in balck and white with ascii characters?
Obviously it's important to have a balance. You improve the looks and it attracts more people, but to keep those people you have to have decent gameplay. Don't forget that hunting is only one part of the game. I personally think it is more important to improve other areas of the game such as crafting, in order to get a better balance in the game. I would guess that ideally MA would like us to go hunting and mining and then use what we find to produce items which we can the use in doing more hunting/mining or other things. At the moment the bias is towards hunting (just try crafting for 15 minutes and you will easily see why!).
 
CryEngine2 isn't just for looks. It has it's own AI system that MindArk will be moving over too. And quite a good one at that. It's Animation system is also the best out there currently for games. Plus it's optimized client to server technology should reduce the whole sliding around issue, if not completely.

So your wish will be partially done in CE2. How well done, we won't know until it comes, but hopefully they do a great job with it's AI system :)


Almost everything is re-written for CE2, it's going to feel almost like a whole different game.

http://www.incrysis.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=1503
^Can read more about it there.
http://www.crytek.com/fileadmin/user_upload/cryengine2/CryENGINE2Features.pdf
 
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Nirfu said:
If people was all in for good graphics the game developers would focus on releasing games on the PS3 and 360 platform. If we look at what really sells and on what platforms new game titles are released on we see that most of the big sellers actually still is running on PS2, Wii and PC. IMO that prooves that the regular player doesn't care for eyecandy. So what is the thing that sells games? - It's the gameplay, how fun the game is to play.
Click to expand...

So you are asking why game developers wont focus on learning the wheel again every time when new console is released? It takes time and resources to make games for new consoles.. and when you have learn everything what that console can do. It is allready old console... Blame console makers.

Also i dont understand why you blame that graphics doesnt matter? There is lots of people who buy those newest and most expensive graphic cards and computers so that they can play new games on max. setup. ;) ( I bet they deposit much too ;p)

Surely we need better AI and better that and that. But again as many have said CryEngine is exactly what this game needs. It brings lot more than just better graphics.
 
Hi,

if we take a look at the on line gaming history (and yes, EU is kind of a game, however named) there's a repeating pattern:
  1. game get's old, company needs to add something new to keep ppl interested
  2. ppl are whining about outdated gfx anyway, so new shiny gfx is introduced
  3. ppl are now whining of hardware requirements, lags und slowdowns
  4. games is as old as it was before, just more slow and shiny ...
I have seen this several times, and many of you too, I'm sure.

And even games that got buried in awards for their great gfx very often didn't manage to become the blockbuster supposed to, see Crysis whose development has been stopped (scroll down to "So, What About Patch 1.3?") due to insufficient sales, only 1/2 year after release.

On the other hand there's quite some games with very outdated gfx that make money like crazy - see the one that has recently sold ways more copies of an expansion in a single day then MA ever had active participants ...

Eye candy isn't unimportant, though!
It's purpose is to draw in new customers and to help getting good reviews from the media - it's responsible for the first impression.
But it doesn't help at all keeping the participants happy - very soon they have seen all, got used to it, don't even recognize anymore, and the "Ah"s and "Oh"s of the first days are forgotten ...

It's the content, and the gaming experience, that makes the money!
This is what makes the customers stay and pay. In on line gaming there's usually a lot of time spent "in game", and there needs to be constant development, there needs to be constant entertainment, enjoyment and fun - this is what keeps the participants happy, and saves them from boredom!
Graphics doesn't matter anymore at this point, we don't nearly see them anymore - many ppl, especially PvP fiends, even lower the graphic quality to a minimum to get better frame rates ...

MA now would have a chance to utilize the superior gfx CE2 is providing - utilizing the awesome graphic quality at the beginning, at the cost of responsiveness and frame rates. We current participants are customized to most awful unresponsiveness, constant lag and rubberbanding anyway ;-)
But they'd need to provide lower quality settings, too, for the time after the honeymoon ...

And, and this is most important, they'd better finally start to work on the content. This is an area drastically ignored in the past, and responsible for the most low to not existent growth rate of EU, in a market where comparable products shine with exponential growth rates.

Right, there's no real competition yet, but there has never been before such acceptance for on line gaming among the people. Many companies providing such are getting rich these days, while EU just even keeps it's population.

If we take a deeper look there's really not much in EU that would keep participants but the dreaded hope for the jackpot! What do we have?
  1. A most stupid mob AI. Every mob is of it's own, shoot one very close to the other, the other will not even notice. Mob's have most simple anger management, it's just the "run away if close to dead", "attack random if angry" and "change target if yours doesn't hurt you" some mobs have that gives some variety.
    .
  2. All professions are unambitious to the vomit, and could easily be done with bots - click a button 1,000 times to craft? Drop bazillions of bombs in a certain pattern, then click a button many times to extract? Push the ever same order of buttons to kill a mob, only broken by the need to FAP sometimes? And even here the ominous "little brother" could help.
    .
  3. What is called "skilling" is the meanest grind in any on line game ever - doing above actions over and over, literally for years! Not the most evil Korean grinder MMORPG's are coming even near here, and I was there, have seen, and ran screeming!
    .
  4. The live of most Calypsonian is made mainly of these actions above, if we ignore the social activities that wouldn't really need an expensive game - a free chat would do, too. But, there's some more:
    .
  5. Ahhhh, the evenz! But MA has a lazy habit to make these very simple: Chose a spawn point, let bazillions of mobs spawn there, maybe put some special loot into one or the other ... Cunning!
    Yes, I know of the newbie events, and praise MA for those - but why not more of these, for the more experienced participants too? I understand, too much work, and they're happy with their mindless grind, too ...

This leads me to the conclusion that there, in fact, is only one argument that keeps the current participants (me including) going on, "depositing" over and over, and spending countless hours in this boring treadmill:

The dream of the jackpot!

Maybe additionally the hope to be able to one distant day withdraw more then deposited - but I'm quite sure any of us would have better profit had we used our time flipping burgers at McDo, or washing dishes ...

Anyway, this puts MA into a comfortable position:
They have grown a sufficient number of gambling addicts that happily paid them year after year, until they now feel safe to take a big step. Introducing the CE2, bringing in planet partner companys, and starting to feature celebs like this "other life" game before.

But this could heavily backfire:
The number of stupid gamblers is finite, and many of the people they seem to target as new participants will not be happy to play the current slot machine game over and over. The current lazy mode will not work anymore, this is sure.
Let's see what will happen. Let's see if there is enough intelligence and power at MA to handle this transition. I'd be happy if they succeeded.

Have fun!
 
alh said:
CryEngine2 isn't just eye-candy, it should also open up for a lot more of these stuff, and being a top-of-the-line modern graphics engine, it ensures compatibility with a lot of middleware, and I'm sure the middleware providers are very keen to support CryEngine 2.

MA has always claimed they aim for a realistic world, and I too would love to see a lot more "intelligence" out there.

I don't think it at all means the game will be more FPS-like, it just means you will get even more immersed in the world, when it feels _alive_.

Chirpies flying around singing, a herd of allos slowly walking by walking out in the water and start catching some fish, a foul hiding in a bush looking at you, but disappearing as soon as you turn towards it, phasm sneaking around in the vegetation, punching at you 3 at a time, strange sounds and glowing eyes from atrax sneaking around your campsite in the dark of the night, but keeping their distance, atrox starting circling you, and run at you a couple at a time from different directions, etc etc.
These things aren't very hard to implement, takes time, yes, and certainly add some server load, but can be done relatively simple with still a great effect, just extending the current system with more modes then "stand around" and "run and die" (and an extra do-something like the trox roar or the exa digesting :) )
Click to expand...

This is what I'm talking about. :)

Even though it takes time, this is what they should focus on after the CE2 implementation.




Xandra said:
U'r text
Click to expand...

Looks like i need to spread more before I can give you the well deserved + rep.
 
davidgr1200 said:
Eyecandy isn't all but it is important. How many people would be playing the game if it was in balck and white with ascii characters?
Obviously it's important to have a balance. You improve the looks and it attracts more people, but to keep those people you have to have decent gameplay. Don't forget that hunting is only one part of the game. I personally think it is more important to improve other areas of the game such as crafting, in order to get a better balance in the game. I would guess that ideally MA would like us to go hunting and mining and then use what we find to produce items which we can the use in doing more hunting/mining or other things. At the moment the bias is towards hunting (just try crafting for 15 minutes and you will easily see why!).
Click to expand...


Entropia have been upgraded graphics-wise several more times over than gameplay-wise. And considering the quality of the graphics :rolleyes:


Jokes aside :) I think CE2 will add a lot more than just the GUI to this slot-machine. I think this is also the reason it takes FOREVER to lauch it...
 
Nirfu said:
Is good graphics important for the success of a game?
Click to expand...

No, but is a factor.

Look at the casual games market, things such as flash games or even simple games like "Audiosurf" don't have amazing graphics. People play them for the gameplay and challenge. The fact that they're easy to pick up and get into.

The problem with making a game looking realistic is that it's other flaws become more apparent. For example you start talking to an NPC that looks rather lifelike, but its mannerisms, odd facial expressions, and 'automated' responses / gestures stand out more. This is because its not something we'd naturally expect from a realistic game character. It just feels awkward and forced. A single aspect of a game thats really good is like a diamond in a turd. Yes something is shiny and pretty, but how bad the rest is in comparison really stands out more.

Graphics are important as an initial attention grabber. To make people go 'ooh' 'ahhh' and get drawn into the game. It's a very short term thing. How often have you played a brand new game, stare in awe at the graphics... then 30 mins later you've forgotton about them, or take them for granted? After that initial hook you need something to keep them interested - interesting / unique gameplay mechanics and (if relevant) a good story / narrative.

What MA need to do after implementing CE2 is:

Make the mob AI more varied. Even the 1998 game Trespasser had a good concept (that was never implemented as intended) - each creature had their own AI routine. They had moods such as fear, anger, happiness etc and would react differently to the player depending on what mood they were in. Same could be done for the mobs in Entropia - they have their own moods dependant on a set of variables. For example a team of six hunters come across an Atrox Young. The AI would realise it's outnumbered and perhaps try to avoid the hunters or call for backup. Alternatively a pack of six Atrox come across an OJ, the AI would recognise that there's little danger and attack.

Make the mobs react to one anothers presence. Imagine shooting at a Snarksnot, then all of a sudden it runs off unexpectedly. You turn around in time to see a spider come crashing through the bushes behind you... Or even a group of plumatergus keep together in a herd to stay 'safe' from a nearby Atrax. Little touches like that.

The NPCs - either remove them or make them interactive. Make them move / fidget like avatars, rather than stand in that stiff single pose 24/7. Make them say something other than 'Hello', and allow some options on how to respond. Not necessary, but gives them more of a personality than the current drones. ._.

A unique game mechanic. Yes, it's alright to keep shouting about the real cash economy, but it doesn't alter the fact EU still runs on the formulaic MMORPG style gameplay. Kick an enemy. They kick you back. You kick them... and so on. In the end the winner is the guy with the biggest boots. Why not implement something like varied hitboxes around certain areas of a mob? For example the legs, head and torso. Causing x amount of damage to the legs incapacitates the creatures combat effectiveness by x%. Blasting it in the head causes more damage... this makes things like hunting a bit more strategic. (No ideas for other professions at the time of writing this ;))

Once they've got the fundamentals in place, FPC can simply keep focussing on the story on Calypso. Hire a bunch of skilled writers (no offence guys ;)) to make a continuing plot, rather than just make occasional events that mostly end up unexplained and unfinished. It's easy to mash the 'spawn mob here' button, but there needs to be a reason why it happens. Make small linked events throughout the year that set the scene up for a big end of year finale event or something so it all flows nicely. Maybe work players actions into the story - for example someone kills a whole group of OJs on a TP run, next day EBN reports them as wanted :dunno: I dunno, just make people feel as if they can influence the world rather than be 'generic participant #507281'

Anyhoo... holy...wall of... text o_O If you read all that... hats off to you!

But if you're lazy, skipped all that and are looking for a summary:
-Graphics get people interested at first, but can get outdated or 'common place' quickly.
-Gameplay / Story keeps people playing. This should be the main focus. Even if your game looks a little dated, people will still stay if you've got a reason to keep them there.
 
This game is a triangle, one corner is the RCE, the next is the Graphics and the third is gameplay.

We have to think about which corner is the most important and which one is the one that needs most focus. (The fourth corner :) Is the community).

Now with news about CE2 coming fist in Q2 2009, I sincerely hope that there will be lots of gameplay added in the form of events.
 
nirfu dont know how much u know about platforms and graphics but to me it seems its not much and only by reading the first few sentences. no - ps3 and xbox360 do not have great graphics, they used to have it but now even an average graphics card for $250 has got better capabilities than those game consoles and new geforce 260 or 280 gpus are eons ahead.
 
Tricity said:
nirfu dont know how much u know about platforms and graphics but to me it seems its not much and only by reading the first few sentences. no - ps3 and xbox360 do not have great graphics, they used to have it but now even an average graphics card for $250 has got better capabilities than those game consoles and new geforce 260 or 280 gpus are eons ahead.
Click to expand...

I know a thing or two about it yes :) But the point I'm after and what you can read in the following loooong posts from others and me is that in the console part of the game business they are the top ones, but still new titles are released on the less good ones(PS2 Wii), and IMO this is cause graphics is not the most important in delivering a good game. I also state that a PC with a good graphics card is on the same lvl as a PS3 or Xbox 360 console(and you are right; if you spend some money even better).

What you forget is that not everyone is OK with spending $250 on graphics, for that money you even get a PS3 or a Xbox 360(at least if you xchange the dollars with SEK). I try not to highjack my own thread and turn it in to a technical thread about what is better than the other. I still in the oppinion after CE2 is released the third cornerstone, gameplay, must get a higher focus from development point of view.
 
Nirfu said:
I still in the oppinion after CE2 is released the third cornerstone, gameplay, must get a higher focus from development point of view.
Click to expand...

Yeah, got to balance that triangle... pyramid(w community)... something... or it will fall over :laugh:
 
Nirfu said:
I know a thing or two about it yes :) But the point I'm after and what you can read in the following loooong posts from others and me is that in the console part of the game business they are the top ones, but still new titles are released on the less good ones(PS2 Wii), and IMO this is cause graphics is not the most important in delivering a good game. I also state that a PC with a good graphics card is on the same lvl as a PS3 or Xbox 360 console(and you are right; if you spend some money even better).

What you forget is that not everyone is OK with spending $250 on graphics, for that money you even get a PS3 or a Xbox 360(at least if you xchange the dollars with SEK). I try not to highjack my own thread and turn it in to a technical thread about what is better than the other. I still in the oppinion after CE2 is released the third cornerstone, gameplay, must get a higher focus from development point of view.
Click to expand...

$250 is for a top of the line GPU that blows the consoles out of the water. But there are much cheaper GPU's that still perform much better than the consoles for around $100 USD. ($115 for a Nvidia 9800GT which will easily outperform the consoles by a long shot.)
 
You'll always get more stuff selling on Wii and PS2 1 because they're cheap, 2 because they're for kids!

I don't think it's got anything to do with graphics more to do with affordability and target audience.

Spyro , Sonic and Crash bandicoots, Brain Training for the Wii and PS2. Far more mums dads aunties uncles grandmas and grandads will go buying these games for the kids.

CoD5 WaW , Farcry2 , Gears of War2 , GTAIV for XBOX 360 and PS3. Hardcore gamers who want graphics and gameplay will buy these for themselves but not in as high numbers as the first demographic.

Apples n Pears really.

Jamhot

mob ai ? ummmmmn? maybe a an itelligent mob than runs away when you've shot at it instead of running directly towrd you in your line of fire, that might be a little more convincing. I wanna see blood too! :vampire:
 
Jamhot said:
...
Apples n Pears really.

Jamhot

mob ai ? ummmmmn? maybe a an itelligent mob than runs away when you've shot at it instead of running directly towrd you in your line of fire, that might be a little more convincing. I wanna see blood too! :vampire:
Click to expand...

Yep, ur probably right there, apples and pears.. The question is do we want and apple or an pear? I work in big IT projects, often the one who orders put down a specification for an apple, gets a pear (close to the apple) but in the end they really thought they was ordering a banana but they where not able to put that specification down, it was all in the head :D

I think there once was blood. But a tickbox in the options to show or not show would be nice. I liked the marks you left when you shot at the ground.
 
I agree with Nirfu and Xander on this one ... graphics are way nice, but that's not what keeps the players coming back. There needs to be more focus on game play in EU for all the reasons Xander pointed out, instead of people banking on hitting the jackpot ... like I did :D ... and ... since n00bs started getting big-ass paydays where skill had nothing to do with it, it became a motivator for others to continue their ATH quest. I just got damn lucky after 3 years of play, and it wasn't even in my original profession.

Am I grateful, yes ... but sad that the draw for perhaps most (it seems), is the chance of making it big. Granted, this is unlike any other game with it's RCE feature, which seems to be the hype that brings in many, but without good game play, there are those who eventually realize that their chances of getting the big payoff is rather slim, and that great graphics is not enough.

EU was my first virtual game ... and have enjoyed it for almost 4 years now, but I have also explored enough other universes to be able to make comparisons quite easily. I hate SL and Wow, but there are others with lesser quality graphics that have awesome game play (IMO) that far and away make up for it.

MA has a great product ... and I know that many of us are SO hoping that going forward with the CE2 upgrade, that vital features available with this transition will be implemented, along with game play dynamics that really give us something to do and think about, as well as updated mob AI, because ... if it's just about the graphics, and text-only storylines that only have us engaged in shooting and looting mobs for items that we MIGHT be lucky enough to get for a reward, I just don't think that's going to be enough.

I forget who it was ... but someone mentioned in another thread how cool it would be to have real community involvement with the storylines where we would have to do one thing in order to facilitate another, and then this would involve other things in order for us as a colony to accomplish our goal of defending Calypso. THAT is real game play, and involves people interacting as a whole to help achieve a goal. Shooting and looting respawning mobs in the current scenario serves what purpose, really? ... other than 15 people maybe getting the cool red armor if they have all the parts required. :dunno:

With regards to ... the soap opera and the notes stuff ... while it brought the community together to solve something, the result over all was pure frustration for the majority as witnessed by threads and posts at this forum. With the current robot wars ... deciphering codes is WAY cool, and keeps people active at this forum trying to decode and translate them, but where does it lead? ... into game to shoot and loot respawning mobs without any interaction to give it a real sci-fi feel that we were in all actuality doing anything cloak and dagger to take down those who were causing the chaos, other than shooting mobs. I'm going to have to find the post of the person who had wonderful ideas of how all of this could take place, because it was rather exciting, and something I would really like to see in EU to beef it up a bit with regard to game play.

I love this environment, and ... I would love to see it improved in the ways that so many have suggested, because I think for the most part we all really want EU to be successful above and beyond where it's at today. I'm really not trying to be negative, but employing some critical thinking as a result of my own experiences that seem to be along the same path as quite a few others. I have had to alter how I enjoy EU several times, but as far as game play is concerned, it is my opinion that it needs some major plastic surgery, and I don't think any of our current beauty industry professionals are capable of offering this type of service. :silly2:

I just hope ... that with Marco at the helm of FPC, we will see some changes that are more in line with game play, but then ... if the premise of this environment is all about the RCE factor, the graphics, the opportunity to hit it big, and not so much about the game play, then I can respect that, and make adjustments yet again in how I enjoy this environment, but I will certainly still be around. :D





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the way mob AI works now is more profitable for MindArk/FPC. Doubt it gets changed significantly.. Imagine CP domes filled with aurlis using daikiba attitude and think how much less money players would waste on decay and missed shots, anything leadeing to decreasing income is big NO-NO for shareholder(s)
 
Selene B said:
the way mob AI works now is more profitable for MindArk/FPC. Doubt it gets changed significantly.. Imagine CP domes filled with aurlis using daikiba attitude and think how much less money players would waste on decay and missed shots anything leadeing to decreasing income is big NO-NO for shareholder(s)
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One of the things I continue to experience ... and to a greater degree this weekend with the bots, is tagging a mob with the Bravo, or launcher, only to have it run after some other player who was quite a distance from me in another direction from where the mob was.

Also ... I had a different experience this weekend at Troy that made someone think I was KS'ing his mobs, when in fact I was doing no such thing ... I don't do that kind of stuff. The thing is ... when a mob attacks you, and you don't give it immediate attention with some damage because you're working on another mob, then it runs off to another player. I'm sure this is what was happening with someone at Troy, and why he thought I was taking his mobs, when I wasn't. He was probably fully engaged with a mob, and because he didn't engage the one that attacked him, it ran after me.

When I'm engaged with a mob ... and another shows up and attacks me, I will immediately shoot it to keep it with me so it doesn't run off, AND ... I have NO idea where these mobs are coming from, because I don't have time to canvas where and what others are doing when I'm keeping busy with the respawn where I'm standing.

Also ... sometimes someone will be fighting a mob and they die, and while they're off reviving, the mob will attack another player. It usually ends up that you defend yourself, because while you may recognize that part of the mob lifeline is gone, you don't know where the player revived, nor if they are coming back to finish off the mob. In the meantime, while you may get fap skills keeping yourself alive while you give a considerable amount of time for the person to come back, you are still taking on decay and will get no loot if the person should come back. In addition to that, if the lifeline was already below half and you shoot it, you still don't get loot, and can only hope that the person who was originally working on the mob will get back in time to loot it.

Oh, and just for the record ... I don't have anything against MA profiting whatsoever :D ... just stupid mobs that don't know their virtual asses from the direction of a Bravo tag, and run after others who might already be heavily engaged in their own activity, and in turn, might get them killed as a result because of too many mobs on them.



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MindStar9 said:


I love this environment, and ... I would love to see it improved in the ways that so many have suggested, because I think for the most part we all really want EU to be successful above and beyond where it's at today. I'm really not trying to be negative, but employing some critical thinking as a result of my own experiences that seem to be along the same path as quite a few others. I have had to alter how I enjoy EU several times, but as far as game play is concerned, it is my opinion that it needs some major plastic surgery, and I don't think any of our current beauty industry professionals are capable of offering this type of service. :silly2:

I just hope ... that with Marco at the helm of FPC, we will see some changes that are more in line with game play, but then ... if the premise of this environment is all about the RCE factor, the graphics, the opportunity to hit it big, and not so much about the game play, then I can respect that, and make adjustments yet again in how I enjoy this environment, but I will certainly still be around. :D

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Your two last paragraphs kind of summarice my thoughts to. I really like this place but it isn't what I met almost 3 years ago and it's not even close to what I hope will come in the future.

With VU 9.0 I was really fed up and angry. I said a lot of stuff those days, but at the same time I felt that 2008 was a very promising year with CE2 engine, planets, space pirates etc. Now I just have to change that to 2009 looks like a promising year... I sincerely hope that I don't have to do the same in last days of 2009 and change it once again to 2010...
 
Nirfu said:
we see that most of the big sellers actually still is running on PS2, Wii and PC.
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yeah, PS2 is still the most selling game consol :D I think ;) lol
 
MindStar9 said:
I just hope ... that with Marco at the helm of FPC, we will see some changes that are more in line with game play, but then ... if the premise of this environment is all about the RCE factor, the graphics, the opportunity to hit it big, and not so much about the game play, then I can respect that, and make adjustments yet again in how I enjoy this environment, but I will certainly still be around. :D

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We all know there is several ways to play this game, as an investment, casino(hit big) or just for amusement. I play it like amusemnt but like the RCE part and would love if we could be more of a buying selling game. I think MA/FPC could let us loot much more stuff if they where sure the items went to other players with markup instead of straight down the TT.
 
Damn, this was a really good thread to read in retrospect :)
 
Interesting retrospective read! I just hope the LOVE release involves Taming tomorrow. Over 12 months since CryEngine 2. Still no Taming and when mobs attack, you can end up inside their pixel framed body shape. MA also needs to update it's servers to handle the client load!
Cheers
Bjorn
 
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