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Entropia = not gambling? (lotteriinspektionen)

Legion

Legion

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Just talked to the swedish lottery inspection and got the stuff they wrote/checked about Eu sent to me. (translated further down)

Tjänsteanteckning – avskrivning

Efter att ha provspelat Project Entropia under hösten 2008 gör Lotteriinspektionen för närvarande bedömningen att spelets allmänna karaktär inte innebär att det anses som lotteri i lotterilagens mening.

Project Entropia är ett avancerat spel och Lotteriinspektionen har inte haft möjlighet att spela och utforska alla delar. Det är möjligt att det finns delar av spelet som skulle klassas som lotteri om dessa upptäckts. Skulle Lotteriinspektionen få in flera tips som tyder på detta kan granskningen komma att återupptas



Johan Rydstedt
Click to expand...

Translation

Service Notes - depreciation

After the test played Project entropy in the autumn of 2008 makes Lotteriinspektionen currently estimates that the game's general nature does not mean that it is considered as lotteries in lottery law.

Project entropy is an advanced game and the Gaming Board has not had the opportunity to play and explore all parts. It is possible that there are parts of the game that would be classified as a lottery if they detected. Would Lotteriinspektionen get several tips suggesting that the examination can be resumed



Johan Rydstedt
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Seems they havent checked all to well :p

I would agree though that it is not gambling, from my view of how the entire game operates. :)
 
Does the Swedish lottery inspection also search for other types of gambling than lotteries?
 
Witte said:
Does the Swedish lottery inspection also search for other types of gambling than lotteries?
Click to expand...

All types of gambling, you need a license to conduct any type of lottery/gambling stuff sort of.
 
Autumn 2008 is quite recent, they did an inspection before that as well i think. Basically their finding is it's not lottery or gambling but it is an advanced game which fits in with a more experienced players thinking.
 
Playing poker is considered lottery according to this law...

Strategy books on poker is just a waste of time then?
I was taking part in a poker game in the west of sweden when approx. 60 policemen came and abruptely ended our plans for the weekend...

So, according to lotteriinspektionen, skills dont matter in playing poker, but they matter when playing eu...
 
What will happen if MA is raided by 60 policemens which confiscate their servers ?

Hypotetechial question, but think how it would affect us all :scratch2:
 
Shoe said:
Playing poker is considered lottery according to this law...

Strategy books on poker is just a waste of time then?
I was taking part in a poker game in the west of sweden when approx. 60 policemen came and abruptely ended our plans for the weekend...

So, according to lotteriinspektionen, skills dont matter in playing poker, but they matter when playing eu...
Click to expand...

That was not about the poker, it was about the money. Your allowed to play poker but any type of betting is considered gambling/lottery etc and needs a permit.
 
I think the reason EU is not classified gambling may be because it is considered as one whole game. When specific elements are evaluated those may well be classified as gambling. But in MA's defense, a single element can not exist without the rest. Maybe it is too hard a job for the inspection, so they let it be as long as there are little complaints.
 
Shoe said:
So, according to lotteriinspektionen, skills dont matter in playing poker, but they matter when playing eu...
Click to expand...

well there's been some debate lately weather or not poker is in fact going to be kept classified as gambling because of that. The main argument is the skills and the fact that the opponent doesnt always have the advantage in poker. This here is a interesting article on the matter.

But thats one issue, if Entropia is gambling or not is another. I agree its not gambling.
 
Legion said:
Just talked to the swedish lottery inspection and got the stuff they wrote/checked about Eu sent to me. (translated further down)



Translation



Seems they havent checked all to well :p

I would agree though that it is not gambling, from my view of how the entire game operates. :)
Click to expand...

They were probably one of those noobs that appears for 10 mins and then never plays again.
 
Witte said:
I think the reason EU is not classified gambling may be because it is considered as one whole game. When specific elements are evaluated those may well be classified as gambling. But in MA's defense, a single element can not exist without the rest. Maybe it is too hard a job for the inspection, so they let it be as long as there are little complaints.
Click to expand...

I tend to disagree here, mainly because EU is really just one system or hmm how to word it correct.

ok.. i dont see one single element as lottery/gambling in eu. Ok you could argue that you dont know what loot you will get in a loot, so that i guess could be called a lottery sort of.

Why not one single (other than the loot) element is lottery is in my view a very very simple solution, you simply get told where stuff is at. And there is a very easy way for MA to do this aswell. (yes it's my skillgain theory) ;P

But if MA did it this way as i do belive they are aswell it would not be gambling in anyway.

I'll try to wrap up my entire view of how i think the internal stuff of EU works later tonight, got school in half an hour. Should be quite a simple explanation and realistic one to, atleast in my eyes. :)
 
Skam said:
well there's been some debate lately weather or not poker is in fact going to be kept classified as gambling because of that. The main argument is the skills and the fact that the opponent doesnt always have the advantage in poker. This here is a interesting article on the matter.

But thats one issue, if Entropia is gambling or not is another. I agree its not gambling.
Click to expand...


I agree its an immersive gambling ;)
 
Legion..... are you bored? lol!
 
Shoe said:
Playing poker is considered lottery according to this law...

Strategy books on poker is just a waste of time then?
I was taking part in a poker game in the west of sweden when approx. 60 policemen came and abruptely ended our plans for the weekend...

So, according to lotteriinspektionen, skills dont matter in playing poker, but they matter when playing eu...
Click to expand...


Poker = YES, skill matters
Slot machine = NO => EU, skill doesnt matter

Plz dont make me dig for examples of snablesnot male young @ 3k PED

To the main post:

Muahahaaaa MA got them good. IC blind ppl. :laugh:


I.
 
Igorl said:
Poker = YES, skill matters
Slot machine = NO => EU, skill doesnt matter

Plz dont make me dig for examples of snablesnot male young @ 3k PED

To the main post:

Muahahaaaa MA got them good. IC blind ppl. :laugh:


I.
Click to expand...

and what does a 3k snable has to do with eu being lottery/gambling? Nothing much.
 
Legion said:
I would agree though that it is not gambling, from my view of how the entire game operates. :)
Click to expand...

i would but thats just my opinion ;) the only way it cant be seen as a form of gambling is the sweat ability if MA remove this ability then it means any player will need to deposit then it will be seen as gambling period.
 
Legion said:
and what does a 3k snable has to do with eu being lottery/gambling? Nothing much.
Click to expand...

Depends on the way the person who got it was playing I suppose.

If your one of the addicted who can't wait to get the next global and hof anticipating it every time you click that button and watching your ped slip through you fingers pouring more money in each time thinking this time it'll be the one and it will cover all my loses so far, then imo your gambling.

Like the people who set their avatar up infront of a crafting terminal, auto clicker on standby, with an OA101 bp set to full condition purely to get a hof and then ask why after $10,000 they didn't get one.

If you got it by blind luck while skilling then it isn't.

Think of it like the professional sports gambler, they reduce their risk by studying form so you could call that a skill. Studying the players at a poker table making judgements on their body language, thats a skill. Putting £10 on the Grand National because you like the horses name - thats gambling.
 
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SpikeBlack said:
Depends on the way the person who got it was playing I suppose.

If your one of the addicted who can't wait to get the next global and hof anticipating it every time you click that button and watching your ped slip through you fingers pouring more money in each time thinking this time it'll be the one and it will cover all my loses so far, then imo your gambling.

Like the people who set their avatar up infront of a crafting terminal, auto clicker on standby, with an OA101 bp set to full condition purely to get a hof and then ask why after $10,000 they didn't get one.

If you got it by blind luck while skilling then it isn't.

Think of it like the professional sports gambler, they reduce their risk by studying form so you could call that a skill. Studying the players at a poker table making judgements on their body language, thats a skill. Putting £10 on the Grand National because you like the horses name - thats gambling.
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Well that would be you MAKING it gambling espeially with the crafting, but that doestn mean the game itself is gambling.
 
Definitions of gambling im sure EU comes under these dont you think...

1, Gambling has a specific economic definition, referring to wagering money or something of material value on an event with an uncertain outcome.

2, An activity characterised by a balance between winning and losing that is governed by a mixture of skill and chance

3, money that is risked for possible monetary gain

4, play games for money "Play entropia win real money"

from these Definitions Entropia comes under the form of gambling or does it not?
 
PED = money.

Loot = random.

Money + random returns = gambling

EU = gambling.


The 2 good things about EU is that with better equipment and better skills you can lower the cost of buying 1 token and that you can sell your loot to other gamblers for more PED than what you would get if you sold it back to the casino (TT).
 
What will happen if MA is raided by 60 policemens which confiscate their servers ?

Hypotetechial question, but think how it would affect us all
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Silly... don't you know that Marco has the server room protected by a bunch of Eomon that are kept away from the coffee machine at the office, so they are very grumpy. Unless those policemen came with some uber weapons they don't stand a chance.
 
And don't be afraid of 60 policemen raiding MA and seizing all hardware because all that MA would have to do in such a situation is relocate to some other country where gambling laws are not as strict.
That would take at most 2 weeks.
(I'm sure they are doing daily backups of the database, so you wouldn't lose any PED or items).



For MA EU is a goose that lays golden eggs.

They would not allow the goose to be killed.

Btw. EU servers are not in Sweden.
 
Ofc its gambling in sort of ways


You buy ammo for 20$, you either get around 50% or higher. The only thing is you never get 0 return.

But on you on the other hand buy a OA09, and drop a bomb and miss you might get zero return at a cost of 2,5/3$ per drop (the same cost as If you would buy a piece on the lottery. Same goes for crafting.


Imo EU is more of a gamble then something else, with exceptions on how you play.
 
There are alot of "assumptions" as noone can actually KNOW for a fact how stuff around here work,

Take the "randomness" of loot for example, sure there have been noobs that get a XX kped hof in their first weeks, sure theres been others that have been losing XX kped/month for over 6month periods or more.

But since we dont KNOW that its random, and that there isnt some kind of formulae to it that, if figured out, would ensure everyone could just spend 5 mins a day to get those kped hofs, we cant really say that this is gambling.

IF, on the other hand, loot truly is random (as replies from support may suggest "your luck will turn around" as they said to me in a couple of occasions), then this is nothing more than an advanced gambling mechanism and/or lottery.

The way a lottery works is that you have to have a ticket to have a chance at winning, the way EU works is you have to kill/craft/mine to have a chance at winning (why i dont use beauty professions here is because, as far as i know, nobody has hit a 10kped hof by hairstyling etc.).

The way gambling generally works, is you take a chunk of money and "bet" on something to generate more money, bet on a horse, your hole cards, a dog, whatnot, in EU you make the same bet into for example bullets, and hope to strike big (or atleast break even) but we all know neither of those are really accomplishable with ease.

Hence, I say EU is both gambling and a lottery untill i receive FACTS that its otherwize, show me a way to continuously break even when hunting/mining/crafting, and ill stop shouting wolf ;)

My two very long pecs.

// Exo
 
Wikipedia said:
Gambling is the wagering of money or something of material value on an event with an uncertain outcome with the primary intent of winning additional money and/or material goods. Typically, the outcome of the wager is evident within a short period.
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Spare me the yadda yadda of "If you play long enough...".
 
AH the gambling argument!

My take is the same as always. EU is whatever you make of it. There are definitely opportunities to gamble in EU with their game mechanics. Go craft a big run on ore amps and tell me your not taking a gamble. Or would you rather just call it taking a chance. Game of chance anyone? Gimme a frickin break.

I also see blind people. Every day of he week on here!
 
Coachman said:
What will happen if MA is raided by 60 policemens which confiscate their servers ?

Hypotetechial question, but think how it would affect us all :scratch2:
Click to expand...

As far as i remember servers were moved to germany (was it germany? or somewhere there) few years back now and there are no in sweden i suppose, and 100% not in their office...
 
I will stick to what i define and dictionary and most gambling bodies define gambling on

You purchase or bet on given odds, either given by a broker or the cards (for card games)

There is set odds in all of these gambling insitutions. For example horses, dogs etc you buy a ticket at 2:1 (you are given odds)

For card games, there is a SET probabitley of what cards you will get and what possible hands you have. I repeat all of it is probabilties which are all known, just search on poker probabilities

EU no set probabilties = imo not gambling

Rgds

Ace
 
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