Am I getting scammed for 200K? Help please!

Hello,
I am owner of Fort Argus bank. Right after VU10 my account was locked because of some “exploit investigation” putting on halt all my business in EU and making me unable to participate in EU and finish any deals in progress. Since then MA/FPC fail to explain what is wrong with my account and what kind of exploit they are talking about. To clear possible questions – I can't imagine me exploiting anything in EU. All my activities were concluding trades with other avatars, AFAIK without any bad history and well known and honorable players. Right now I am simply scared of loosing all my invested money for completely unknown reason because there are no any communication from MA/FPC side not talking about any willing to help to solve this situation. I paid pretty much close to 200k USD for bank + operation deposit MA required for bank. I offered full cooperation to MA to help them in their investigation, also offered all information i can provide. That didn't helped at all, MA even didn't asked any questions at all.
Of course I wrote a support case, I was trying to contact Marco through this forum with no result at all. Does that mean that all my and possible everyone's else investments are not safe by any means? Does MA/FPC can just lock our accounts without any reason and without explaining themselves ?
It is even more about this since I have borrowed some money Irl from bank to buy that bank and get money to operate it. And now I have payments to make and if I loose my account I will be double f####d Because bank won't care that I was scammed by someone... Also i had some private investors, who's money is locked as well. They don't care about me getting locked/scammed.
Maybe someone has encountered similar problems in past and can give me an advice what to do in this situation? Should I hope for their honesty? Should I contact Sweden police about company scamming me for vast money? Any help/advice will be highly appreciated.

Best regards,
Jolana Brice

I think I will provide updates in my original post since this thread is growing pretty big.
As for now - 22.09.2009 16:30 I have written emails to various MA/FPC people as well tried to call office to discover Marco ain`t available today and I should talk to him and "try call tommorow". Thanks to people who send me some contact information for MA/FPC employees. Will keep you people updated.

24.09.2009. Update
After 3 days unsucessful phoning MA/FPC office I was expplained by some secretary that none of MA is allowed to talk about this and I should use my lawyer to contact them. Which is in process right now...
Amusing reply from MA: https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...-scammed-200k-help-please-30.html#post2087816

15.10.2009 Update
Now I am beeing asked to send my IDs to MA. I really hope that case is making some progress now.

3.1..2009 Update
https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...-scammed-200k-help-please-52.html#post2150887

23.11.2009 update
https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...-scammed-200k-help-please-56.html#post2179283

1.12.2009 update
https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...-scammed-200k-help-please-57.html#post2191889

2.12.2009. Conclusion
https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...-scammed-200k-help-please-59.html#post2193534

Try to phone MindArk/FPC and ask them about what is going on?

Hope it works out for you, if you indeed have done nothing wrong I think it will be okay good luck!


EDIT: If MindArk can prove that you have done something against the EULA I think they can lock your account, but they would need proof for this I guess...

I feel so sorry for you. It is a huge investment.. I hope MA replies fast and you get it sorted out.
http://www.mindark.com/contact/ That might be any use

Goodluck!

call MA, ask for Marco and demand an explanation

I must say, i have had loans in your bank in the past, and due to maintenance fees being expired, i had to file a support case, along with plenty of others. Maybe, just Maybe, not saying this is the problem, but they might be considering that exploiting the bank system by allowing the maintenance to expire like it did

I hope everything works out for you!

I assume you have been calling their offices every day since it happened too?
What do they say when you talk to them live on the phone?
This is a too big issue to handle through normal support channels and PMs on forums...

How long have you been locked out for?

VU 10.0 came out on 17th August, have you been locked for a whole month?

As others have said, definitely sounds like a phone call is in order, they should be able to give you some kind of update, progress report or some kind of information if it has been that long.

Fizbinthemagi said:

I must say, i have had loans in your bank in the past, and due to maintenance fees being expired, i had to file a support case, along with plenty of others. Maybe, just Maybe, not saying this is the problem, but they might be considering that exploiting the bank system by allowing the maintenance to expire like it did

I hope everything works out for you!

Click to expand...

It shouldn`t be a case. It was all sorted out with MA long time ago. All in all those things happened due to changes IRL. Had jobs that pulled me away from any civilisation for long time... And I missed those fee deadlines.

Have you made the call already ?

First try to contact Mindark. If they neglect you I say contact police. I would be very interested in how they would respond !?
Please keep us updated about this because it adds to the puzzle currently being Mindark / FPC trying to run a buisness

I figure you are swedish.

Is there any written contract between you and mindark about the bank license or does it work like any other item in Entropia (regulated in the EULA) ? If so the EULA sais:

"4.1 MindArk’s Proprietary Rights

The Entropia Universe and the Entropia Universe System, including, but not limited to, computer code, text, graphics, audio files, logotypes, button icons, images, characters, items, concepts, data compilation and software, is the property of or controlled or licensed by or to MindArk and/or MindArk’s Planet Partner(s) and protected by Swedish and international intellectual property rights laws."

I dunno what that mean in RL terms, its kinda fuzzy to me. IMO I would never ever buy something in EU I couldnt afford to loose 100% of due to how fuzzy the ownership is. As I interpret it MA owns every item ingame and you own nothing, theres no obligation by MA to pay you for lost items or they dont even need to explain why your account was locked or you items gone. Bottom line, everything is controlled and owned by mindark when it gets real. Ofc they do everything to help think we have control of our investment otherwise the whole concept would fall like a cardhouse.

I know of several supportcases where Mindark stated accusations and locked down accounts from accusations which was clearly not true and then not giving any information due to "whatever reason". It brings my thoughts to some 1940's dictatorship.

I dont think the police would do anything about it since they lack the knowledge and will only listen to what Mindark tells them. Perhaps it would be a very interesting case for a lawyer to dig into since it has great potential for media coverage and making new praxis in how to deal with virtual investments.

For investments of this size I could need a written contract with Mindark about the ownership and "what ifs" cleary stated before giving them one pec.

Best of luck to you with this , im very interested to hear how it goes.

Jolana said:

Does MA/FPC can just lock our accounts without any reason and without explaining themselves ?

Click to expand...

Yes they can, and they have, even when players aren't conciously doing anything wrong and with no reason given to them, that's just how they do it.

I don't see anyway that Mindark could keep you from your money, seeing that it is such a large amount, without you having done something illegal. It doesn't even matter if you broke the EULA, you can sue for your money, if it comes to that. Legal cases have show that the EULA is not an iron clad agreement in the eyes of the law.

I know of a case where, in another real money based economy game, where a person gamed the system and made a ton of money through an exploit. The company locked his account, citing the EULA. the guy sued and the company was forced to return all his ill gotten gains.

just comunication problem i guess...

You maybe did buy , or made a deal for an stolen item...so you get lock time they investigate...
Sadly MA never say much,so many people can get locked for 2 or 3 week without even knowing why.
Try to call them.

That is truly harsh, I would indeed call them asap and demand to know what is happening.

Would seem they lock the account and THEN look for evidence of guilt...wtf is that?

HELLOOOO!?? You find evidence and THEN lock the account so that when the accused queries this you can go "Look here".

FFS...I'm just gonna shoot my boss quick...later I'll find evidence to prove it was self-defence

a.) you had a scammed item in the bank
(which MA usually does not care about) (!)

b.) You exploited something.

c.) We cant help you.

d.) Why havent you called MA via phone yet ?!?!

Lets wait and let MA talk...

I think before you start claiming scam... you and/or your lawyer should get in touch with immediately and directly wiht MA... and not search for Marco on a public forum or filing a support case hoping for a response...

For that amount of investment the person you should be contacting is not only Marco, but Jan Welter Timkrans, CEO and main owner MindArk PE AB.

My gut tells me there is something very wrong about this thread..

fly to the office and demmand a meeting, 200k is more than enough to make that worth while!

Pepto said:

Would seem they lock the account and THEN look for evidence of guilt...wtf is that?

HELLOOOO!?? You find evidence and THEN lock the account so that when the accused queries this you can go "Look here".

FFS...I'm just gonna shoot my boss quick...later I'll find evidence to prove it was self-defence

Click to expand...

This is how a normal legal system works, if the crime is severe you get locked up during investigation if its minor you are free until proven guilty.

The problem is Mindark seem to think any supportcase saying someone did something is severe and locks the accused instantly. The main issue in this is that they can lock you and then unlock you BUT not give any reason why you were locked in he first place which is total bullshit and a proven tactic to get someone locked. Just send a supportcase with false accussations agains someone and MA will most likely lock them for somedays until they had time to check what happen, then walk free because MA wont tell who tried to frame u.

You have actually to write a support case, like the rest of us?

I am pretty shocked that MA treats business partners like that. Its not like you are an average gamer just buying some ammo or paintcans.

I don't know how much of a business relationship you actually have with MA but in RL one would contact his lawyer to deal with such, no?

Don't think it is a scam, but no matter how busy their are, they shouldn't treat business partners like that.

ohh!! this totally scary me.. they just have total power to play with our lifes.

Hm, a bad reputation more for MA. now they hit ppl in the ass where deposited 200k usd(( very good promotion, how MA handle investor customers.

sry to hear that... im 100% sure i will never invest a big money to this company.

did you the call to MA now?

This is a clear example how IMPROFFESIONAL the company really is.

200.000 Dollars.

1/5 of a million dollars.

You could buy a home with that money.
Or a nice car.

What i mean with this, is 200.000 $ is not chicken shit, meaning you should be informed before something happend to your account, or everything else.

I sincirly mean the following:

If i where you, i would withdraw every penny from MA.
Its is safer to invest in a Real Life market stall.

Mice said:

Just send a supportcase with false accussations agains someone and MA will most likely lock them for somedays until they had time to check what happen, then walk free because MA wont tell who tried to frame u.

Click to expand...

I'm not sure they can tell you who it was? Cuz of rules and such

trance said:

Hm, a bad reputation more for MA. now they hit ppl in the ass where deposited 200k usd(( very good promotion, how MA handle investor customers.

Click to expand...

and interesting to see how ppl start complaining about MindArk without actually knowing BOTH sides of the story? not to sound rude, but we do not have that much info about this...

Nighthawk said:

I'm not sure they can tell you who it was? Cuz of rules and such

Click to expand...

Exactly, thats why they should check first and lock second.

Brooklyn said:

I think before you start claiming scam... you and/or your lawyer should get in touch with immediately and directly wiht MA... and not search for Marco on a public forum or filing a support case hoping for a response...

For that amount of investment the person you should be contacting is not only Marco, but Jan Welter Timkrans, CEO and main owner MindArk PE AB.

My gut tells me there is something very wrong about this thread..

Click to expand...

I guess you are right. Something smells fishy...

And to all the others : Do you really think MA would do this without any explanation and proof ?
You must be naive or hate them so much. Just think a minute before you post

And to the Op. If i was you my lawyer would already been very active.
Something is totally wrong here...

OK, the advice is, you need to make sure everything is put in writing, as effectively you are now starting to put together a case against MA/FPC actions.

Immediately send them an email asking for an explanantion of their actions. Give them 48 hours to reply and copy in your lawyer to that letter.

If you don't receive a satisfactory response get your lawyer to write to them and seek a declaration that their actions are are illegal. You may wish also to try and join the other FPC companies in to any action - particularly the bank as this will have regulatory impacts.

This will at the very least open up the lines of communication.

Good luck

kygon said:

fly to the office and demmand a meeting, 200k is more than enough to make that worth while!

Click to expand...

Absolutly

If i could not contact them on the phone then i'd be camped outside the office front door in a sleeping bag.

The ease with which MA locks accounts really scares off potential investors not to mention making existing players very reluctant to deposit or even make them withdraw.

After MA sent the msg to most players that their accounts are locked last year due to some bug think even locked some ppl due do that bug, an old player I know withdrew all his ingame peds as incident really pissed him off.

MA locks accounts when they "investigate". So doesn`t matter you are guilty or not of something, you`re getting locked just because they investigate you. Due to the nature of RCE they should really work on finding other ways of handling it. Say avatar trade is a danger and shouldn`t be allowed during investigation, just restrict avatar`s option to trade or perform certain ingame activities withdrawing/depositing etc while giving them a really good explanation on the whole situation.