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MA reworked actually the landscape on CND,the made some hills really flat and climable ,good enough for hunters and miners
 
Seoul said:
In real life, I buy land in the best part of town, I build up a business, get a ton of customors and booommm, the city put in a new freeway and it cut my area in half. OK, what happens then? I really don't know. Can you sue anyone? Would be nice to see what a lawer in their home country would say, would love to see that answer.

Good luck to you dude

Seoul
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You can see the plans for urban develeopment L: ) and make complaints about it : )

at least in the most countries... cough ...
 
those LA are horrible now compared to what you once had, that really sucks.

On the bright side I will offer 1,000 ped for a land area, so you dont lose all investments. :D
 
The big difference here is that EU is a service not an item. Though you'r question is still valid, has the service provider the right to change the service at his will?
In this case they actually has, in the EULA you read prior to every log in they clame there right to change agreements several times. They never promise that your inside investment will stay as when you bought them. It was on your own risk that you did agree to pay huge markup on your LA's. Even though you regarding to the law is in no power to claim MA IMO they should have taken care of your wishes as they should have with the rest of us. Maybe they thought they were nice to you, you don't really know what enmatter and ores are spawned in your hills in the future. The rivers might be perfect for you to put DNA from sea mobs in? Who knows...
Still you could have sold your LA's prior to VU10 and then used your money wisely and made new investments when you knew how the world had changed. Marco actually told in advance that it would be a big change to the whole game. So is MA really to blame for your bad investment?
 
If I remember right Deathifier got his Island " fixed " with LA-areas after lobbying MA pretty hard . I suggest you do the same so keep mailing them and keep it clean. We will do the yelling here on EF for ya ;)
 
Masta said:
But it does, which is why their cute in-house lawyer from p. 15 of the annual report makes you accept it every time you log in in the first place.
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If you think that just because you click "Accept" when you log into EU you instantly lose all of your rights then you're misinformed. MA can put whatever they like in the EULA but making it stand up in a real court of law is a whole other ball game.

Fail that, start the process of a Commercial Lien. I'm sure Mr.Jenkins (majority share holder if I remember correctly) won't like that.
 
Tracer-Bullet said:
If you think that just because you click "Accept" when you log into EU you instantly lose all of your rights then you're misinformed. MA can put whatever they like in the EULA but making it stand up in a real court of law is a whole other ball game.

Fail that, start the process of a Commercial Lien. I'm sure Mr.Jenkins (majority share holder if I remember correctly) won't like that.
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Naw, any legal action against MA or FPC Mr. Timkrans (majority shareholder) sure wouldn't like (I doubt he's of a masochistic type), but that's not to say he'll be particularly bothered by it. After all, as I said, he employs a full-time in-house laywer for a reason, and I trust that Mrs. Edlund (FPC in-house lawyer) honestly earns her living as she spends 40 hours each week (over the past four years) studying the relevant legal issues, all just to make sure that should any forum smart-asses like you and I try to upset Mr. Timkrans consciousness with a lawsuit, she will have our b*lls firmly in her hands (and not in a kinky way).
 
Wow.. thats a bummer..

Im currently reading the EULA - been a while and they change it ever so often.
I seemed to remember a part where it said (in legal terms) that we did not own any of the items on our account, any landareas we had deeds to .. and so on.. Which would make a lawsuit futile.

However, I struggle to find any such § in the "new EULA".
The closest I can come is that:

"MINDARK, .... SHALL, TO THE EXTENT ALLOWABLE UNDER APPLICABLE LAW, IN NO EVENT, BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY ...., LOSS OR EXPENSE...., ARISING FROM THE USE OF THE ENTROPIA UNIVERSE OR IN CONNECTION WITH YOUR TRANSMISSION OR USE OF ANY CONTENT USING THE ENTROPIA UNIVERSE."

So, if they do not state that they own your LandArea and are just giving you "full access to it" - I would not be surprised if indeed you CAN claim it is your property, and that they have changed it without your concent...

I hope for the best for you... :)
 
Masta said:
Naw, any legal action against MA or FPC Mr. Timkrans (majority shareholder) sure wouldn't like (I doubt he's of a masochistic type), but that's not to say he'll be particularly bothered by it. After all, as I said, he employs a full-time in-house laywer for a reason, and I trust that Mrs. Edlund (FPC in-house lawyer) honestly earns her living as she spends 40 hours each week (over the past four years) studying the relevant legal issues, all just to make sure that should any forum smart-asses like you and I try to upset Mr. Timkrans consciousness with a lawsuit, she will have our b*lls firmly in her hands (and not in a kinky way).
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I'm not really sure what you're trying to convey in your post. Are you saying that the in house lawyer is able to defeat any and all law enquiries. That's what it sounds like. If so, that's obviously not true :)
 
To forum admins: perhaps this thread should be moved back to General discussion, since there are far broader issues relating to EU business model and consumer rights being raised here rather than just Land Area management.

@Tracer: check this thread out, some points which are relevant to our debate are being raised there too. It sounds like depending on MA response, someone may actually be getting close to challenging EULA in court for the first time (to my knowledge). It will be interesting to see whether Ms E (their in-house lawyer) will actually stand up to my high expectations :)
 
Grave Digger said:
MA reworked actually the landscape on CND,the made some hills really flat and climable ,good enough for hunters and miners
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strakkan said:
If I remember right Deathifier got his Island " fixed " with LA-areas after lobbying MA pretty hard . I suggest you do the same so keep mailing them and keep it clean. We will do the yelling here on EF for ya ;)
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I was unaware of this. I did indeed contact MA including David and Marco directly per email. I suppose I should try again/harder. Meanwhile, could anyone please confirm this?
 
gwit said:
But it doesn't until it is tested in court - at the moment it is just hope value:)
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But it does, software end-user license agreements have been tested in all sorts of courts many times. If MA's EULA hasn't been tested, it doesn't mean there is no precedent. Moreover, I'm pretty sure MA EULA was drafted with all the precedents in mind.
 
I haven't read all the posts in this thread so apologies if it's been mentioned allready.


In response to slupors question in a previous thread marco replied:


slupor said:
When Footguards were introduced and my complete armour sets lost value and did not function as before because they were suddenly not complete anymore, how does that relate to your statement above?
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Marco|FPC said:
Planet Calypso will be in constant evolution and new items will be introduced all the time. It is a foundation of the Planet Calypso development. By this, some items may influence other items on a bigger scale, but we will not adjust statistics on a released item (if it isn't the case of a bug or equal).

In the actual case of the footguards, we have seen the frustration it caused to parts of the community and we have that as an experience to take into consideration in what and how future releases should look like.
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Marco says they "will not adjust statistics on a released item". So the big question is: Is an LA an item and is the terrain, location and size of LA statistics on that item? To my mind this is a plausible argument and you may want to take this up with MA. Clearly Marco's statement above does not seem to hold true for LA's.
 
Re-shape/locate LA's didnt go too smooth... feel sorry for ya :(

levithanikos said:
One thing i DON'T understand about MA : :scratch2:

They spend SO much money (our peds) , to improve GFX and create new bugs .. er i meant , fix the bugs , but they have maybe the WORST communication / connection with their community ...

Is sad and totally unprofessional , making so big changes and don't even ask the ppl who actually keep MA alive

Demonikos :tiphat:
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Have to agree with this...

Grave Digger said:
MA reworked actually the landscape on CND,the made some hills really flat and climable ,good enough for hunters and miners
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I guess ND can help you with this, and maby those pro CND miners could share some screenies with you.

strakkan said:
If I remember right Deathifier got his Island " fixed " with LA-areas after lobbying MA pretty hard . I suggest you do the same so keep mailing them and keep it clean. We will do the yelling here on EF for ya ;)
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Hmm, turned one LA to few :wtg: Deathifier knew how to play the game :ahh:
 
strakkan said:
If I remember right Deathifier got his Island " fixed " with LA-areas after lobbying MA pretty hard . I suggest you do the same so keep mailing them and keep it clean. We will do the yelling here on EF for ya ;)
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Deathifiers island wasn't really fixed. The changes were additions to the island that should have been there when he first purchased it, as set out in the purchase agreement (if I remember correctly).

I think you know this Strakkan but I'm just making sure everyone else does :)
 
In terms of rights and the tou you dont have many. Also in litigation its only lawyers that win.
However persist with the support call as mindark need to realise that the pixels they moved just lost you a lot of real money and for customer care they should move them back.You are not the only one i have a similar estate problem and have seen a thread regarding apartment block shops.
 
Tracer-Bullet said:
Deathifiers island wasn't really fixed. The changes were additions to the island that should have been there when he first purchased it, as set out in the purchase agreement (if I remember correctly).

I think you know this Strakkan but I'm just making sure everyone else does :)
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Thanks for clearing my somewhat fluffy post ;) .
 
:scratch2::scratch2::scratch2:
It might interesting and productive
to set up an Entropian Ombudsman and arbitration panel in game
as part of an emerging legal structure for this brave new world of legalities.
:cool:​
 
The problem here is you think you own the LA, the truth is MA owns the LA and is letting you use it. You should have some say in the terrain and location, something like if MA moved your LA farther from the tp you can request a few terriain changes, or since your LA is closer now the terrain will be whatever MA feels like.

Lets face it MA isn't great about keeping the customers happy, but everyone knows the risks going in. Sometimes you get burned, sometimes you hit it big.
 
my 2pecs, i think the scenary changes have been drastically over done. while it great seeing great mountains and deep vallys, there are too many such backdrops. i dont know if its just the lack of TP to get to the hunting grounds, but im definatly less inclined to bother when i get somewhere and find half the areas is inaccessible. if i'd owned land that had changed so much i think id be very very annoyed. very.
 
Einstein said:
I agree, this complete overhaul of the LA's (Location and topography wise) was not a good idea from MA at all.

IMO it will seriously undermine the confidence to make future substantial investments in this game.
Location and topography are some of the most important factors of LA's together with DNA offcourse.
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Agreed... as with making any significant purchase, there comes certain expectations. I honestly can't think of any real reason to change the topography in such a drastic way (yeah, I am aware of the Typhon storyline). Qetesh and Einstein are dead-on correct here. There are many areas that I once hunted often that I doubt I will visit as often for the exact reasons quoted here: Location and Topography.

If either of you get an answer from the powers that be, I would love to see it btw.

Good luck
 
my 2pecs, i think the scenary changes have been drastically over done. while it great seeing great mountains and deep vallys, there are too many such backdrops. i dont know if its just the lack of TP to get to the hunting grounds, but im definatly less inclined to bother when i get somewhere and find half the areas is inaccessible. if i'd owned land that had changed so much i think id be very very annoyed. very.
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Can't agree more on some levels. The hills are very steep. Shoot, the hill you have to climb just to get to the PA mall now is almost impossible to climb if you take it from certain angles, or fall off that edge that's near the pathway up the hill there... What MA should do is put in some sort of code that says if pixel height of this location is so far + or - below 0, remove the location unless there are locations immediately surrounding the area that is + or - so far up or down on the z axis... so there would be smooth gradiation from high to low, not jagged edges that make it impossible to reach some areas, or easy to get trapped in others for both avatars and mobs. It should not be hard to do something like that since most game engines use something similar to a bitmap to determine ground, where white is up and dark is down... simply turn on the gaussian blur in photoshop on the image used to do that before you implement it in the ground plane in the game engine... so that there is more grey area (hills that are not super steep)
 
We own a house with a nice view of the Vegas strip and a large empty lot between it and the strip. Some $*&$! cleared the lot across the street from there though, but we hope he ran out of money due to the downturn before he can put up highrises. So, yeah IRL it can happen too, but here I think you have a better case to get MA to make some changes, 41 is still a good mining area though, maybe because people don't know you can climb most of it.
 
Although I can...

..understand your anxiety, I do not have so many PED's invested.

I know the current VU is not finished yet. Not even LA's. Nor their design. Nor their layout. They are adjusting it almost every update. Basically, what you have right now is a beta. We all have that. Only you have an LA and I do not.

I hope you stick it out. Hang in there. And I think you'll sing a different tune in VU 10.2 or something.

I just hope it isn't too late for you to loose faith.

I hope it isn't too late for me to loose faith.

Cheers,

Zoo

Qetesh said:
I have been wondering about this since VU 10.

When you buy something you are usually entitled to the item you paid for.

[deleted for sake of length of reply]

My question is this; To what extent are we entitled to "get what we paid for" in entropia? Can MA change the stats of an imk2 overnight so the eco is that of an opalo? Do we have any consumer rights in Entropia with regards to these things? We are after all talking about considerable amounts of money here.
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Only have read about half of the posts here, but I'm wondering whether any other major landowners have comments. I.e., what was the experience with the remodelment of TI back in previous VU (creation of all the LA boundaries I believe) and did MA consult with landowner for VU10 conversion...
 
Actually, a little searching finds this note from the other day

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...shop-location-unacceptable-4.html#post2059202

which includes the comment:

Deathifier said:
...
Fixing up TI City is among the many island-related post-VU10 repair tasks, and I hope to restore the layout to an equivalent, if not better, layout than existed prior to VU10.

...

I have also been slowly working on improving the city, including several pre-VU10 passes on the terrain around the TP to try and flatten it (not an easy feat given MA's reluctance to touch terrain at the time), the movement of the service center to a useable location, and the placement of one of TI's most popular creatures such that people have to travel through TI City to reach them.

...
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I would think that unless there is some special arrangement for TI, that this type of service should be available to all land owners. No?
 
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