Consumer rights and Entropia

irl if you had a huge buisness and they where making an highway near it or a road the public state would have to agree on it first wether to build it or not. if not approved the ones who wanted it would continoue their case till they get allowance. if the part wich has the buisness closeby loose their screwed and will pretty much just have to try squeesing some sort of an "make good thing" out of it, IE since they build the road they can sort of demand them also making sound damping walls around it and improve the insolation of the buildening to dampen the noise.

if the land was owned by the buisness and the makes of the highway wanted to build in it they would have to pay up and again agree with the state, if the buisness owner refused everything and the road was vital it would go to the state people to decide and if the buisness owner lost he'd be fucked, if not the roadbuilders would be fucked and would have to find another solution to their road

this recently happened when they where expanding the highway 20 meters from my house, they had to tear down 1 house, and they had to pay every home that is close fees for noise damping walls, windows and isolation for the older ones we got a glas house thingy to be in outside that is noise damping and new windows on the whole side towards the highway, for free. they havent finished the highway yet, still till january till that, but we have already gotten the windows, doors, outhouse etcetc without paying for it nor the craftsemn installing it into our home

in irl there will always be communication between the two parts and in 99% of the cases compensations will be made. this is why you can't compare IRL like this to MA since, well i got no idea about LA's works like this but MA just does thing as if they where the "state" plowing around without any communication nor compensation.

it's just logical that the LA's that have been drasticly "ruined" like many i assume should recieve compensations. but for that to happen the ones owning a LA would have to examine their LA, found out what its like now compared to before, bad, good, what is bad and good incase, what could be done to compensate/changed etc.

I think MA should buy the land back from you since it has been drastically changed or they should let you choose another area if they can't fix it. Some proper compensation is in order. Fair is fair.

There were very good hunting areas before like Atlas North for example and I haven't found hunting areas to be as good as before. The terrain has too many damn cliffs, resulting in less free movement and forced navigation to get around. This is frustrating, time consuming and draining, it takes away from the fun.

I'm not saying everywhere is bad for hunting but overall I think it was better before.

Einstein said:

I agree, this complete overhaul of the LA's (Location and topography wise) was not a good idea from MA at all.

IMO it will seriously undermine the confidence to make future substantial investments in this game.
Location and topography are some of the most important factors of LA's together with DNA offcourse.

Changing these 2 aspects completely overnight is not a good thing. It changes the value of a land area completely.

This would be the same as changing mod fap stats to only 30 heal or mod merc to only 20 rpm.

I really hope that MA will reconsider the changes they made to the LA's and rather try to get them close to the look they had pre VU-10 again.

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Hey Einie, you express what I was thinking when checking Atrax Beach a few weeks ago. Nice that you have gotten some more acres of land and less water. But....

No beach anymore
and Atrax sometimes almost falling down from a hill on top of you

That's not the land that you bought, nor the land that you want I suppose?!

!!!The remodelling of both Amethera and Eudoria is a farce!!!

Nice sceneries yes, but hunting changed in a positive way for MA/FPC and a negative way for the players:


Less range possible between avatar and mob before able to shoot
= mobs that hit you earlier after they get their first hit
= more armor and fap decay before a mob is killed
= more profit to MA/FPC

All clear folks?! That's the way it works and I am 100% sure that this argument has been used in a CE2 meeting when discussing the remodelling of the planets surface.
I know MA, they are so easy, and yet they don't care and treat the playerbase like dumb idiots.

There are a lot of consequences to various things like this, relating to the changes in the new VU.

One I can think of; Emerald Lakes Mall TP was moved in VU 10.0, but people kept it in their files - so any shop that you liked (or owned!) was easily accessible after the change. A little later, the mall was moved and so was the TP, and just about everyone who had collected it lost it thus having to re-acquire it. Fortunately, although my re-collection was boring (simply swim all the way to it along the river) and time-consuming it wasn't actually all that difficult, but I can't imagine that shopowners there liked the change much.

Also, until the re-release of televators the value of shops on the upper floors of malls is going to be drastically reduced simply because of the convenience factor. Combined with the shop signs not working...

Whether the EULA is of legal force or not, the increasingly obvious fact that MA are quite willing to give the shaft to people who have put large amounts of RL time and money into EU is not going to help their long-term prospects. I wonder how long it's going to be before MA start selectively banning people who have large amounts of money tied up in high MU items, that MA are only obligated to give the TT value for? And what is the MU like on estate deeds, for that matter? What's the TT value of the estate deed for CND, for example?

If (extremely unlikely) I ever make a real killing in the tens of thousands of PED, I will make sure that I withdraw the money in increments. No proof, but I suspect that withdrawing 100,000 PED is going to take a long time. 100 lots of 1,000 PED might be a lot faster!

I am very small time, so this is not going to affect me financially much if at all, but it has a bearing on the game's future. When real money is at stake in something, then the people who run that something have more moral obligations IMHO.

Alot of this is based on the assumption that MA is not going to or not willing to or never has been interested in significantly compensating players..... for losses or inconviences.... in the past or the future... on a case by case basis

Here's an interesting case in point...

Mikass said:

Another eg I got a shopkeeper from MA as gift(full tt,6k market value) as they were late on fixing a bug that took them 1-2 years.

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Recently Apartment owners recieved an expensive storage container as cmmppnsatio fo their troubles.

This thread while necessary is IMHO way to premature and full of the usual negative specualtive nonsense... of an the evil MA....

Brooklyn said:

...This thread while necessary is IMHO way to premature and full of the usual negative specualtive nonsense... of an the evil MA....

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Disagree about the premature part... Had MA|FPC made a statement that the current terrain models may change upon further review, I would agree. At a minimum, a simple email to the LA owners would suffice. I honestly don't need to know about it. But I was a LA owner, I would certainly feel loads better about the situation had FPC be open about the changes in the terrain. As far as the LA owners know at this time: that is your land, deal with it.

Rayne Jade said:

Disagree about the premature part... Had MA|FPC made a statement that the current terrain models may change upon further review, I would agree. At a minimum, a simple email to the LA owners would suffice. I honestly don't need to know about it. But I was a LA owner, I would certainly feel loads better about the situation had FPC be open about the changes in the terrain. As far as the LA owners know at this time: that is your land, deal with it.

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Your right... I just felt the negative or positive specualtion of what was going to be done or not done by MA was premature until cases are brought and problems clairified and being resolved or not resolved...

Brooklyn said:

This thread while necessary is IMHO way to premature and full of the usual negative specualtive nonsense... of an the evil MA....

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Isnt it about time you shutup and ****** off out of threads of people who have REAL grievances and dont need some noob coming along and pouring oil on a fire over and over and over.

im sorry for being rude,
but your behaviour is beyond belief.

You may not know Qetesh,i dont know Qetesh, but i do have a idea about the amount of dollars invested by this avatar and they have a right to complain if they feel they need to.

some ppl have suggested you are payed by MA to say these things, i think MA should give you a job and make you shutup as your comments only enrage those who already have a real grievence with this company.

I dont even understand your point, i get the impression you think your pretty clever, and that your arguments are important to the discussion.
But even if this were true, where is your empathy, your humanity, who are you helping by your comments?

If you are honest with yourself you know the answer to that, the only person you are helping is your ego.

If you are honest with yourself you will know the best thing to do in future is to stay out of threads like these.

im interested to see whats more important to you, feeding your frail ego or respecting the real grievances of other human beings.

Fallen.

Brooklyn said:

Alot of this is based on the assumption that MA is not going to or not willing to or never has been interested in significantly compensating players..... for losses or inconviences.... in the past or the future... on a case by case basis

Here's an interesting case in point...

Bla bla bla bla

Recently Apartment owners recieved an expensive storage container as cmmppnsatio fo their troubles.

This thread while necessary is IMHO way to premature and full of the usual negative specualtive nonsense... of an the evil MA....

Click to expand...

1. The assumption that MA is not going to or not willing or never has been interested in signifcantly compensating players is solely based on MA/FPCs general behaviour.
When things go reasonably well within the universe they communicate a bit.
When things go rather bad within the universe they stick their head somewhere were it's dark.

2. What the hell do you know about "the past", let alone the future...?! People that know the past see a pattern in MA/FPCs behaviour that is repetatively narrow minded and with hardly an open mind for the communities input.
Allthough I like the visual upgrade with CEII alot and I also appreciate the effort that MA/FPC sticks into bug-fixing, they keep making the same mistakes as they always have done. Showing no respect for the people that they have persuaded to invest into their Universe. Screwing up standards and longterm values without seeming to care or even wonder what the impact will be for their investors.
And that my little girly is what alot of people that play this game are, investors. Now tell me, how much have you invested?! How much is at stake for you when you shove your fist up their *ss all the time?!


3. This "very expensive storage container" is actually worth 15 ped = $1,50. It seems you don't understand that current price for these items is mostly based on people speculating on a value increase on the longterm. They buy now at prices they might never get back for it. How many Personal Storage Containers do you think people need? 1 or more then 1 per estate/appartment they own? Well, there has been given out 1 for every appartment. That's alot of Personal Storage Containers. Now how many buyers you think there will be for this item in the next 1-2 years.
Do you really expect the price of this item to sky-rocket so all appartment owners that can't even access their appartment anymore will go like:

"ow waaaw MA/FPC, super massive thanks for the super expensive Personal Storage Terminal that you gave me 2 years ago, because it's worth a zillion ped now"

Think MA/FPC would better watch out for to many people saying "stick that goddamn thing in your *ss when I can't access my appartment within 2 months or so"...


Ow and hun, before you neg rep me, which I don't mind at all tbh, just read this post 10 times. Maybe then you get some sense in your thoughts and reconsider your opinions (a bit)....

Kemp said:

Ow and hun, before you neg rep me, which I don't mind at all tbh, just read this post 10 times. Maybe then you get some sense in your thoughts and reconsider your opinions (a bit)....

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I never negative rep... as you do it to yourself...

Interessing how you simply ignore and erase the actual case witht a real big time compensation that was presented with a simple blah blah blah... which what you and your friends on your little anti MA bandwagon always do when confronted with a fact that doen't jive with your wild speculative scenarios...

I... because I do take it seriously... at least offered a practical solution for dealing with these and other problems in the future... what have you offered nothing... except the usual... negative blah... blah... blah....

FallenAngel said:

You may not know Qetesh,i dont know Qetesh, but i do have a idea about the amount of dollars invested by this avatar and they have a right to complain if they feel they need to.

If you are honest with yourself you will know the best thing to do in future is to stay out of threads like these.

Fallen.

Click to expand...

Brooklyn said:

It might interesting and productive
to set up an Entropian Ombudsman and arbitration panel in game
as part of an emerging legal structure for this brave new world of legalities.
​

Click to expand...

Great post Kemp. +rep

I feel for landowners ..I know that I hunted and mined a few nice LAs previous to this mess, but as stated by some here the terrain and TP situation (And lack of TP chips) makes it no fun now. For a game that is supposedly a place where people can earn a living this lack of communication and concern for those who invest is appauling really.

I imagine that there is quite a fair sum of money involved here for landowners, and considering the reduction in players recently that's serious financial loss for a little eye candy isn't it?

I wish you all luck in getting some action.

t

I am really sorry to see what has happened to the investments that you have made Qetesh, and I sincerely hope that MA will work with you and other LA owners to resolve these various issues. This, and other issues, will definitely have an impact on their future growth, and affect any other future, virtual universes that may come.

Thinking of ND's, and Deathifier's investments, compared to your's, I would feel safe in making the assumption, that you can be sure there are legally binding contracts involved in their investments, therefore giving them a great deal more influence with MA in seeking satisfaction with layouts, terrain, etc. Unfortunately, that is not, yet, true with LA owners. Hopefully, that will change, if MA realistically hopes to attract future investors, both large, and small. Things like what you are experiencing, make me reluctant to consider making any kind of small investment (LA, shop, hangar, etc) without some kind of legally binding agreement to protect said investment.

I can't help but to consider this a real estate investment, and from what I can see and understand of of the EULA (legalese is not my forte), I cant help but think that you were sold something that only had a real value of $.10, for a price (and profit to MA) of what you perceived it would be worth, at the time of sale. And no promise of compensation, or compromise, to any future changes that MA may make, at their sole discretion.

This kind of thing keeps bringing me back to the very first thing I was told when entering this game, "dont put anymore into this game, than you are absolutely willing to lose, for there are no guarantees." I really hope MA is paying attention to these issues, and will work to resolve them, for I really like the concept of this 'game', and would like to consider investments in the future.

If I remember right Deathifier got his Island " fixed " with LA-areas after lobbying MA pretty hard . I suggest you do the same so keep mailing them and keep it clean. We will do the yelling here on EF for ya

Click to expand...

Spod got his pole fixed too after complaining enough.
https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...te-values-seriously-effected.html#post2017911

PA mall, the mall is effectively turned round,

the entrance that was the quite far from town is now the one thats closest to the action.

this will have a serious impact on the shops on teh ground floor both in terms of realestae value and the amount of business they do.

and it looks like the teleporter will be at a different end.

I am basing this on the location of the ad posts - it could be that ma just changed their location - its a bit hard to tell atm as the shops are not working - though i suspect that we are still paying rent (thanks again MA).
I am a major looser here 3 shops now all at the wrong end of the mall, and the reveive that was at that end is gone.

Click to expand...

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...-values-seriously-effected-7.html#post2035948

and my ad post has been swapped back to front.

Click to expand...

If MA was willing to do that for Spod, why shouldn't they do likewise for all other estate owners that liked the old location better?

Being around MMOs the past decade there is something every and each of those games had to deal with, or rather the players had to deal with.

"Being hit by the developers nerf bat"

While this usually aims towards better game balance for the total community or game play, it of course always leaves the one being hit with a sad feeling behind.

I was always wondering if people "investing" such high amounts had other contracts or agreements with Mindark than the EULA we all have to agree upon and therefore more "rights" on how things develop and such.

I was a little surprised that for example Nostrop's former Bery Island got that huge with VU10. To my knowledge Nostrop was banned some years ago, but the Lands never claimed back by Mindark (please correct this info, I am not sure if I got that totally right). With seeing this, I was thinking more of positive of this matter, like "Ok, they banned the guy from the game, but apparently he is still allowed to own that land, so they will somehow give him the peds nevertheless." though I espected it to become something smaller after the VU.

Putting the OPs starting post together with the locked bank owner account I have no good feeling about such things anymore.

On the other hand one coud say, would you buy a 40,000$ car from a company without any written contract?

I posted a support case once to ask what happens to mining claims that are lost due to server down. Answer was the usual one that is a virtual universe were literally anything can happen. This answer was actually the one that made me refrain from depositing for anything to buy "investmentwise".

Personally I consider any deposit as "loss".

I do hope they get things straightened out at some point, because I think if you look at it from the consumers point of view this is totally bollocks they handled it this way.

I don't think even their EULA would save them in that case, if it was going to court. There have been numerous cases in the past where online property had to be re-installed because of lack of security issues and such (think last one I remember was a player getting his account back after a server crash or something, he sued the company for it and got it all back).

For now I think they just ran the old planet through the Cry2 update no matter what, not looking left or right and will dig through the collateral afterwards.

And I do think they have to. I don't think any other "investors" would untertake such things with this now obviously happening.

Seeing this I start to believe when someone told me upon my ATH "don't withdraw, you will just start losing". Seems a little off topic, but serves the look on MA's view on how they treat their customers, imo.

it's bad enough that the spawn density is real low for the most part.... gotta run around all over the planet to hunt.... because of this.... I won't hunt a hilly area. Maybe when zip chips come back I'll hunt the hills more.... but for now... I don't have all day to run up a hill to kill 1 or 2 mobs.

I've hunted quite a lot in 2 of Quetesh's LAs. I don't find the mechanics of hunting any worse than elsewhere, but I won't mine until MA sort out the slopes and solid objects.
But as other people have said, the hunting loot is appalling.I'm glad I don't have much time to play now, because I can only hunt for half the time now for the same deposit.
I'd say all the LA's have probably halved in value solely because players are only killing half the mobs they used to. And that's without reckoning all those who aren't playing at all.

Starfinder said:

Wow.. thats a bummer..

Im currently reading the EULA - been a while and they change it ever so often.
I seemed to remember a part where it said (in legal terms) that we did not own any of the items on our account, any landareas we had deeds to .. and so on.. Which would make a lawsuit futile.

However, I struggle to find any such § in the "new EULA".
The closest I can come is that:

"MINDARK, .... SHALL, TO THE EXTENT ALLOWABLE UNDER APPLICABLE LAW, IN NO EVENT, BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY ...., LOSS OR EXPENSE...., ARISING FROM THE USE OF THE ENTROPIA UNIVERSE OR IN CONNECTION WITH YOUR TRANSMISSION OR USE OF ANY CONTENT USING THE ENTROPIA UNIVERSE."

So, if they do not state that they own your LandArea and are just giving you "full access to it" - I would not be surprised if indeed you CAN claim it is your property, and that they have changed it without your concent...

I hope for the best for you...

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I’m kind of surprised at you since I know you’re a smart person; you make the EULA sound like the word of God, but a court might find that its not worth the paper its printed on and if one part of the EULA is too one sided to one party and gives no benefits to the other party the courts can threw out the whole thing or any part they see unfit.

Its been a known thing that courts have dismissed contracts and EULAS for many different reasons.

Also I see issues with any one changing EULA / Contracts while money has already been invested in the product / service with one party (MA) being able to change such contract at their sole discretion (change terms any time)

I think this applies here as well

XingTianNu said:

When you read this part it takes some serious courage to put any money in Entroipia:

"9. MINDARK'S LIMITATION OF LIABILITY

MindArk provides the Entropia Universe, a virtual universe where You are free to choose the course of the action You wish to pursue.

MINDARK, ITS EMPLOYEES, OFFICERS AND DIRECTORS, ITS AFFILIATES AND SUBSIDIERIES SHALL, TO THE EXTENT ALLOWABLE UNDER APPLICABLE LAW, IN NO EVENT, BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DAMAGES, LOSS OR EXPENSE INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION, DIRECT, INDIRECT, SPECIAL OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGE, OR ECONOMIC LOSS, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION ATTORNEY FEES, LOST OF GOODWILL OR HARDWARE DAMAGES, ARISING FROM THE USE OF THE ENTROPIA UNIVERSE OR IN CONNECTION WITH YOUR TRANSMISSION OR USE OF ANY CONTENT USING THE ENTROPIA UNIVERSE.

YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT , TO THE EXTENT ALLOWABLE UNDER APPLICABLE LAW, MINDARK SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR THE LOSS OF ANY DATA OR ELECTRONIC FILES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, ACCOUNT, AVATAR, SKILLS AND/OR VIRTUAL ITEMS AND/OR CURRENCIES, FOR ANY REASON WHATSOEVER INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, SERVER FAILURE, INTERRUPTIONS OR CESSATION OF TRANSMISSION, INTERNET LATENCY, VIRUSES, BUGS, TROJAN HORSES AND THE LIKE, SOFTWARE AND/OR HARDWARE DEFECTS OR ERRORS, UNAUTHORISED USE OF THE ENTROPIA UNIVERSE SYSTEM OR SERVERS, USE OF CONTENT SUBMITTED TO THE ENTROPIA UNIVERSE, AND THE USE OF ENTROPIA UNIVERSE IN GENERAL.

You acknowledge that MindArk will not be liable for any damages or loss caused by failure to perform any term or condition of this Agreement due to conditions beyond MindArk's reasonable control such as, but not limited to, war, terror attack, strikes, fires, floods, acts of God, governmental or authority restrictions, power failures, or damage or destruction of any network facilities or servers.

MindArk reserves the right to interrupt the services available via Entropia Universe and/or the operation of the Entropia Universe System with or without prior notice for any reason. You agree that MindArk will not be liable for any loss or damage caused by interruption of the Entropia Universe, delay or failure to perform."

(

Click to expand...

Reading is fundemental... MindArk never calimed or intimated in anyway that They as a company or their employees were not subject to the law or that the EULA superseeded the LAW or that under the law that they are not liable for damages like any other company or indivdiual... or that under EULA they would not continue to voluntarily compensate or accomodate parties for what they considered legitimate claims... as they have done in the past

Mikass said:

Another eg I got a shopkeeper from MA as gift(full tt,6k market value) as they were late on fixing a bug that took them 1-2 years.

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I suspect that after CE2 is up and running they will turn their attention to the legitimate and substantiated complaints and voluntarily make just compensation... to the injured parties

For now I think the best course of action is to form a land owners action committee.... clarify in "real" terms the substance of you claims... and fromally petition MA to address your grievences... but not to unrealisitcally expect or demand real substanative action on thier untill the have fully installed and have operational VU10...

customer rights?

as far as i can remember MA states this game to be free to play , if you choose to deposit to enhance gameplay thats a different story.

but i agree on things , that some changes are really bad , but you cant talk about customer rights.

cheers

ermik

Loot is worse since VU10 and the mob density is kinda sparse in some areas, totally agree. Isn't hunting the foundation to sourcing all materials and driving the economy?

Cani Ostro said:

Being around MMOs the past decade there is something every and each of those games had to deal with, or rather the players had to deal with.

"Being hit by the developers nerf bat"

While this usually aims towards better game balance for the total community or game play, it of course always leaves the one being hit with a sad feeling behind.

Click to expand...

This is really a fundamental truth about virtual worlds, and it is the one reason to pay very careful attention to the nature of the RCE in such an environment. Clearly it cannot be evaluated, in investment terms, according to the same criteria as RL investments. The volatility of the basic structure is a key factor to include, and anyone who did not do so, was making a flawed decision to start with.

Cani Ostro said:

I was always wondering if people "investing" such high amounts had other contracts or agreements with Mindark than the EULA we all have to agree upon and therefore more "rights" on how things develop and such.

Click to expand...

This is something that I have also pondered. Considering that we are discussing amounts that could quite easily settle my mortgage AND buy me a new Beemer, I find it inconceivable that any potential dispute resolution would be restricted to the EULA.

Cani Ostro said:

....
Personally I consider any deposit as "loss"....

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Pretty much how I view it too. Call it "running costs", if you like

Update 10.0.14

.. curious to know if anything has changed Qetesh.

FIXED ISSUES

Terrain and Landscape Issues

Heavily rugged terrain in and around Land Areas on Amethera has been leveled out

Click to expand...

Like I said in my previous post, this VU is far from perfect and I strongly believe MindArk/ FPC are working hard to increase player satisfaction. Thus making your LA's a bit more enjoyable to hunt on.

Cheers,

Zoo

check this thread

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/land-areas/165462-10-0-14-terrain-adjustments.html

Nirfu said:

check this thread

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/land-areas/165462-10-0-14-terrain-adjustments.html

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Very nice indeed.

I have just completed a tour of my land areas and it seems especially outback land 41 (New Switzerland) has been given a makeover. This is great news indeed.

Outback land 25 (the Armax area) is still basically a hillside, but the southern areas in particular are smoothed out a bit.

There is still much to be desired, but this is a great start. Let's hope they keep it up! The initial question should still be answered though, do we actually have any consumer rights in situations like these?

Have you contacted MA with your points? Who knows, they might just be willing to listen? Probably not right away but in a couple of patches time? Just mention how much you have deposited - it's at least worth a try.

Qetesh said:

My question is this; To what extent are we entitled to "get what we paid for" in entropia? Can MA change the stats of an imk2 overnight so the eco is that of an opalo? Do we have any consumer rights in Entropia with regards to these things? We are after all talking about considerable amounts of money here.

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This is one of the points being addressed at the discussions on what will be required to properly regulate the virtual financial investment environment - Regulating the virtual microtransaction industry.

No defined consumer rights at this stage with MindArk/Entropia - Only that which you would have to negotiate directly with MA or through legal recourse with reference to purchasing a product 'as is' from an organisation whereby the design (model structure) should remain similiar or whereby contact and agreement with the invested owning party requires to be met before any major changes to structure and locations (inc associated topology) can be made.

As much as I hate to bring up the legal recourse option, this can be followed, even though the EULA states MA owns everything and they can do whatever they like with it down the track - Real world laws in Sweden conflict with this once it is sold as an owned (deed) investment involving real world money.

You best speak to MA and to your legal representation in Sweden in regards to the such - Or have them converse with MA on your behalf.

I am assuming you have proper legal representation with revenue generating investments in excess of a quarter of a million USD in Entropia right ?

I hope it gets sorted out.

Maybe people will come to understand my recent (last 6 months) forceful & somewhat negative tone with attempting to get MA to change its general modus operandi (& mentality - cowboys/kids/fruitcakes in business to professionals) in the way they do business in the financial sector of the market;

ie. Not as game developers developing a 15 USD a month subscription game,

Instead as developers of financial virtual world environment which involves substancially large amounts of other peoples real world finances invested into 'owned through deed' virtual world revenue generating assets.



Sorry to see you lose out on your investments like this Qetesh,

MindArk is a young and inexperienced financial organisation - relatively clueless when it comes to the real world financial investment sector due to the financial investment sector not being their forte;

However this is the industry their platform is designed to enter to attract those interested in investing into entertainment based virtual asset investments amongst other genre of virtual revenue generating investments - It is a steep learning curve for MindArk at present.

Consider this one of the train crashes that has occured in their attempt to learn to drive their train properly in this area of the market - We as customers are the passengers of that train

I know a few sold their LAs before CE2 with the assumption this change in terrain would likely occur, placing the value & revenue potential of their asset at risk.

I hope they rectify each LA owners land area on a case by case basis over time to ensure they are each satisfied with the CE2 migration (Key word being migration - Not a completely different change to model architecture and surrounding topology)

Hopefully more passengers will board at the next station & future stations as MindArk learns to drive the train and that not too many will leave the train due to such crashes.

First of all I really regret you being screwed like this.

On the other hand: everyone brings up lawsuits vs MA.

First of all there is no law concerning virtual land. Therefore -> this issue would be appraised as consumer application.

You paid 50k$ for it?

This would be viewed as: man day worth of effort put towards your property ingame. With MD costing 1k$ (basically) Im pretty sure MA can come up with a projection which expert reviewer would find feasible and would involve 50 MD directed to your issue over a timeframe you owned this land.

This happened before and all ppl could do is complain and push MA to atleast correct their mistake a bit. Hpe this work for the best.

And dont forget -> EU is a HIGH RISK investment playground.

I.

Wondering something I could not find in the EULA Tou, Privacy or anywhere.

but most games, DDO, WoW, AOC, AO etcetera it states that you pay for the rights to play the game with the avatar, but you do not own it you only own the rights to play it, IE sort of you lend it. this makes, funcom, blizzard, turbine or whichever makes the game at ease to do as they please with the characters (usually they don't ofc and if they do you get an warning)

I couldn't find this with MA anywhere, anyone knows if you actually buy the character or you just buy the rights for it?

I would believe that since we don't get anything to make it able to run our character for ourself without the servers we do in fact lend it like the other games.

This usually shouldn't matter but it can be quite important to know.

gwit said:

A fascinating question.

To address it one has to ask - what have you actualy bought?
Have you bought a virtual piece of land or a right to participate in a profit share on a virtual piece of land.

I don't really think there is any straightforward answer to this one. Clearly whatever "rights" you have are limited because you cannot make any changes to your land - you can only add or remove mobs and not make any structural changes. This unfortunately supports my earlier point about the right to participate.

However there is another interesting line to be addressed and that is what representations were made to you to induce you to enter into the contract to be this participation right. This may give you an angle.

Click to expand...

you miss the point, MA sell an object that have ntrinsic value due to its cracteristics and then MA changes it, no other waay to see it, MA is responsable for the switch in those lands buisness no dam fair at all! virtual or real

Cant really compare to WoW etc's TOS etc, as they dont use real money, and you pay for the account, not the items.

While MA say all items are gaurateed their TT value, LA's TT value states "Market value". So if after an appraisal its dropped, you may have legs to stand on, EULA or not.