Mentors

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Marco|SDS

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Hi,

FPC is looking on several ideas for adding interactivity and networking in Planet Calypso. One area we see as an important one is the Mentorship where veterans help newcomers. If you were a game designer, how would you make a mentor system to be used in Planet Calypso?

Some ground rules:
- Keep it short and to the point (I don't want to get the urge to TLDNR it).
- Be realistic as to mechanics and rewards (no "after ten disciples the mentor get a full Shadow").
- No bashing on others suggestions. You can comment if it is constructive but I get mad if the thread turns into bash-fest 2009. ,-)

Fire away!
 
For mentors to be able to set up newcomer quests within a system would be great.

Perhaps the system would reward the newcomer and the mentor for doing it together. Such as gathering TP's, taking the trip to oil rig, etc.

Skill bonuses for the mentors would be a great incentive for the veterans and 'ubers' to bother with mentoring. Perhaps a +100 skill increase in a chosen skill at a full disicple graduation. When you're getting to the point where you are very skilled, that would seem like a sweet deal.

Expand the graduation to include finished newcomer quests and not just reaching a certain skill level.
 
The mentor system was always a good idea, but I agree that it might need some updating.

One of the main problems is the fact that disciples get locked into a mentor after a certain point. This limit should be removed to discourage the "disciple farming". If disciples are happy with their mentor they will stay and mentors are encouraged to do the job correctly.

Cheers :beerchug:
 
Hi,

FPC is looking on several ideas for adding interactivity and networking in Planet Calypso. One area we see as an important one is the Mentorship where veterans help newcomers. If you were a game designer, how would you make a mentor system to be used in Planet Calypso?

Some ground rules:
- Keep it short and to the point (I don't want to get the urge to TLDNR it).
- Be realistic as to mechanics and rewards (no "after ten disciples the mentor get a full Shadow").
- No bashing on others suggestions. You can comment if it is constructive but I get mad if the thread turns into bash-fest 2009. ,-)

Fire away!

Just thought of something off of the top of my head that might be useful.

You could introduce different Mentor Tasks that must performed whilst accompanying his or her disciple and receive either points or a small reward for making each new level or helping their apprentice complete a learning task.

For example, a system where the Mentor can be teamed with his disciple such that when the Mentor takes his disciple on a tp run it will confirm that the Mentor has helped in this (eg both reach the new tp teamed and the Mentor receives some points for each tp).

Edit: heh heh Skam has had a similar idea ;)
 
1. Skill exp. bonus when mentor and disciple hunting together. They can either be just together, or with a larger party. This would help both of them, even a small bonus would count.


2. Mentor could be given the choice to choose skill exp reward instead of an item. Amount of experience would be determined by the skill level.


3. Skill exp. bonus to the disciple once he/she reaches a certain stage in training. For example if the disciple is at 50% to graduation, he/she gets 1 week bonus experience to all skills. (Of course it doesn't have to be big bonus)

Will edit later, if I come up with something else :)
 
Hey!

I think both the mentor and the disciple should receive a gift... As a mentor, many potential disciples were asking me a gift for them to stay... Bad from them ;S
Also, the problem of disciples harvesters... We should find a way to do not permit harvesters... Maybe a kind of counter which would keep a track of how many time you spend with your disciple/mentor, and retribuate them proportionally to that time spent. Or a system of reputation given by disciples, which would affect the gifts value when the graduation is past.

Maybe i'll post more precise ideas later.

Ed Ward
 
A gift for the disciple too at the end of the training-period instead of only the mentor getting a gift and leaving disciple empty handed. This way the mentor can't "steal" the newcomers trust by keeping the gift at the end of the training-period. This way the newcomer will have the feeling that his training was free and gets a present and the mentor will be rewarded for his effort.
 
A gift for the disciple at the end of the training-period instead of the mentor getting a gift and leaving disciple empty handed. This way the mentor can't "steal" the newcomers trust by keeping the gift at the end of the training-period. This way the newcomer will have the feeling that his training was free.

new comer AND mentor both recieve gift, that way necomer is rewarded for completeing graduation and mentor is rewarded for the time spent on helping out (apart from the 0.3 skill increase you get from a succesfully graduated dsciple)
 
Agree with most so far. Tie the mentor and the desciple together better somehow. Let it be a two way street. So if restrictions or rewards then give to both parts.
 
You could maybe make it so that people who successfully graduate a disciple, don't have their PED card unashamedly r@ped and pillaged by MA/FPC for an hour?
Now that would be something worth striving for! :yay:



On a slightly more serious note:
anything to get away from mentors farming disciples for items, is a plus in my books.
:thumbup:
 
Only 2 minor details come in my mind for now....

1- Make the progress (%) visible for the disciples also.
2- Make the graduation automatic in case the mentor is afk for weeks or months.





.
 
One thing we realy need is a system where a disciple can ask a question to the mentor when he is ofline and when the mentor is online he gets the question from his disciple. This way it is easyer for them to communicate whitout the need to be both online. :)
 
Obviously, any bonus system seems necessary to have veterans help newcomers.

Maybe you could award the mentors with something else than gifts for some smaller steps?

We already discussed this here on EF, you could give medal or some visible sign that is not tradeable, thus it would be a true dictinction.
 
There should be an option that the mentor could Teleport straight to the disciple. So he can help that person in the spot. It could have like cd of 6-12 hours so that people cant missuse it.

Even the disiples would have a chance to get something, something unique for just disciples and have the name of the mentor on it.

For mentor unlockable skills after enough skill, like f.e Tolerance, patience, friendly, helpful, teacher or something along that path.

"I graduated" t-shirt? :)

Some way for the mentor to be able to see the disciples progress when it comes to skill, not just %.

Maybe some way to lend items that is returned to the mentor after completion. Like bound to character and non sellable no drop item.

Mentors reputation should be shown when scanning the mentor.

A quest system that the mentor can adjust and edit to make it more fun and progressing for the disciple.

And the rest would be up to the mentors creative mind on how to make it more exciting for the disciple.
 
The major problem with the old system is the abuse by disciple-farmers.

A farmer can sign up dozens of mentors and will get a few crappy reward gifts but occasionally one that is worth having. Since they typically put zero work into it, that works out well for them. If a disciple quits, it doesn't make any difference to them.

A dedicated mentor will sign up fewer people because they don't like to spread themselves thin. They put lots of effort in but will get fewer successful graduates (more as a proportion than the farmer, but less as an absolute number), and therefore get fewer gifts than the farmer.

So the reward system favours the first over the second when it should be the other way round. In turn that causes other problems such as a higher attrition rate from new players disillusioned because of a bad mentor.

So the big queston is - how do we solve this? Not an easy question to answer.

Some vague ideas to think about:

  • restrict the number of disciples that can be taken at one time (e.g. no more than 10 on the list at one time, or no more than 5 can be taken in one week);
  • identify disciple farmers and remove or restrict their ability to take on disciples;
  • remove the item reward system completely and do something more with the Mentor skill;
  • link mentor items to the proportion of successful graduates - so someone who graduates 30% of their disciples gets better items than someone who only graduates 5%

I'm not proposing any of these as an ideal solution, just as a springboard for discussion I guess.
 
Some sort of display to show ur prowess in mentorship when people scan u.

If FPC decides to add in titles in future which could be displayed near ur name, that would also be a good way to show it.
 
For mentors to be able to set up newcomer quests within a system would be great.

Perhaps the system would reward the newcomer and the mentor for doing it together. Such as gathering TP's, taking the trip to oil rig, etc.

Skill bonuses for the mentors would be a great incentive for the veterans and 'ubers' to bother with mentoring. Perhaps a +100 skill increase in a chosen skill at a full disicple graduation. When you're getting to the point where you are very skilled, that would seem like a sweet deal.

Expand the graduation to include finished newcomer quests and not just reaching a certain skill level.

I really like Skam's idea here, as she points out, it would draw more people, including ubers, to mentoring.

I think that putting in small quests for the disciple to do would make the game more fun for them off the beginning, encouraging them to stay, and then maybe making group quests (for the disciple and their mentor) to work together as a team.

One thing we realy need is a system where a disciple can ask a question to the mentor when he is ofline and when the mentor is online he gets the question from his disciple. This way it is easyer for them to communicate whitout the need to be both online. :)

I agree with you here, I found it really frustrating when my mentor wasn't online and I needed to ask a question. This idea would solve those frustrations.

Oh and a graduating item for both the disciple and mentor would be awesome too (it has the disciple looking forward to something as well, other than just graduating).
 
Limit the amount of diciples -

Make it so that the mentor HAS to help the diciple with some tasks -

Make a Mentor TT where Mentors can buy a Diciple starting kid for low cost, including some ammo which can only be used for Diciple weapon of choice -

Make it posible to get decent Mentor gifts again - Which was kinda ruined by ppl exploiting the system (Like so many other things)
 
Theres should be a minimum skill level needed to become a mentor to ensure that the mentor has some knowledge of life on Calypso.

A mentor should ony be alklowed so many desiples at any give ntime to prevent harvesting. This level can increase as the person has desciplies graduate and mentoring skill increase.

When you reach the skil level to be a mentor you can have 2 ro 3 desciples. As desciples graduate this will allow the mentor to add addtitional desciples up to a max number.

Have some type of recognition a desciple is able to give a mentor similar to the event points so others can tell a good mentor from a bad one..
 
The mentor system was always a good idea, but I agree that it might need some updating.

One of the main problems is the fact that disciples get locked into a mentor after a certain point. This limit should be removed to discourage the "disciple farming". If disciples are happy with their mentor they will stay and mentors are encouraged to do the job correctly.

Cheers :beerchug:

If there was no lock you would get blackmailed at 99% by the disciple.
 
I actually liked the old system, though I would like to make a few changes.

First of all, it must be relatively easy to get a disciple. How this is achieved, I'm not sure, but it's all about giving people a reason to become a disciple. While I know that it can be beneficial becoming a disciple, due to the mentor knowledge and experience, to the newcomer this is rarely enough. Could be that during the mentor ship period, the disciple experience skill bonus or similar.

As for the mentors incentive, the reward should be useful. I'm not saying it should be valuable though. It could fx. be a limited gun. I realise that there are certain complications in this regard, but I'm thinking that the gun is delivered with 0 TT value, just as always, and then it can be repaired fully only once. In other word, MA loses nothing and the mentor saves the mark up.

Also, now that there has been talk of a quest system thingy, it might be a cool thing with some quests that the disciple has to complete during the mentor ship period.
 
Some ideas:

There could be a little gift (champagne, sweat or whatever, something not very usefull but which has a little value) for disciple and mentor when the disciple is taken. This would encourage socialization at short term.
Maybe this little gift could be better when the mentor is more skilled (agility based to avoid chipped mentors who will generally have less knowledge about the game).

As other said, a little bonus in skilling for mentor (10% bonus max i think). This could be 1% when discipleship begins and 10% when the discipleship is about to end. This would also encourage the mentor to hunt/mine/craft.
And 5% more bonus when mentor and disciple play in the same team.

Another little reward when the disciple is at 50%. Something like a pixie part maybe, or a vivo T1 with 5 ped TT.

And the last reward when the discipleship is over for the mentor. But please avoid the EP13 and such ! Or at least make a system which won't deliver 4 EP-13 in a row ... You could give some L stuff at 0 TT which would repair only once.
 
I think it´s all about encouraging the right people to offer mentorships.

Therefor you could introduce some kind of a rating system: the graduated disciple rates his mentor. This reputation could be linked to which gifts you receive/choose from or how many disciples one is allowed to accept.

I second that a disciple should also be given some kind of reward... as I know many mentors already gave stuff away their graduated disciples could use along the way.

I don´t think there is a need for quests, a good mentor should be able to explain the universe without such quests, maybe formulate his/her own quests for his/her disciples.
 
A farmer can sign up dozens of mentors and will get a few crappy reward gifts but occasionally one that is worth having. Since they typically put zero work into it, that works out well for them. If a disciple quits, it doesn't make any difference to them.


I'd raise the exp needed to be able to be a mentor. Do not let the 1 week old newbs be a mentor anymore.
Problem half solved.



.
 
Subscribing, will edit this post later:)
 
Somekind of min requirements (min atributes, hp, highest proffession must be over level xx etc.) to be a mentor are needed so there will be less mentors who actually don`t play a lot and don`t help anyone.
 
Hi,

FPC is looking on several ideas for adding interactivity and networking in Planet Calypso. One area we see as an important one is the Mentorship where veterans help newcomers. If you were a game designer, how would you make a mentor system to be used in Planet Calypso?

Some ground rules:
- Keep it short and to the point (I don't want to get the urge to TLDNR it).
- Be realistic as to mechanics and rewards (no "after ten disciples the mentor get a full Shadow").
- No bashing on others suggestions. You can comment if it is constructive but I get mad if the thread turns into bash-fest 2009. ,-)

Fire away!

I think the problem atm is the reward versus time spent training noobs. A 5 ped value gift for about 100 hours of constant same old questions, rescue time from tp,s, etc.... is an insult imo. I see it as doing Ma job. I think you need a fair system for the time mentors put in.
 
Hi.

When graduation time is lesser, then mentor gift can be more value or nice or useful.

See when connection time from mentor and disciple is same or see how many private messages change between both them.

Greetings.
 
One thing we realy need is a system where a disciple can ask a question to the mentor when he is ofline and when the mentor is online he gets the question from his disciple. This way it is easyer for them to communicate whitout the need to be both online. :)

Good idea, :)
 
If there was no lock you would get blackmailed at 99% by the disciple.

Thats why you introduce the concept of the disciple getting a gift too - that way if they leave the mentor at 99% he won't get anything unless he started all over again with another mentor at 0%

which reminds me,

*If disciple leaves mentor, make it possible for disciple to rejon mentor again without having to start all over again.
 
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