Mentors

Dunno if it's been mentioned, but a Mentor/Disciple chat would be nice. It'd act like soc or team chat - it's much more convenient than using the PM system.

JackFree said:

The mentor system was always a good idea, but I agree that it might need some updating.

One of the main problems is the fact that disciples get locked into a mentor after a certain point. This limit should be removed to discourage the "disciple farming". If disciples are happy with their mentor they will stay and mentors are encouraged to do the job correctly.

Cheers

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I disagree. If people can leave whenever, there will be a situation where people buy away disciples. For instance when the reward is worth 4 ped, then someone could offer the disciple 3 ped to switch at 99%. Both get some benefit, but the original mentor, who did all the effort, is left unrewarded for his efforts.

Let them join soc but not effect total skills (nice if you are a top 50 soc)

Then you can let friends, familymembers in or what ever. Much easier to teach and do things. Getting help from other socmembers is a big+

In top 50 soc you have very expeiranced and dedicated players.

mastermesh said:

EU should have an internal em system, or at lease a PM system similar to what is here on Entropia Forum...

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Yes, and also longer friends lists. Especially to make it easy for normal players with full FLs are going to work as mentors. (If it is the load on the system at logon time, maybe MA could make friends list virtually unlimited, but having a maximum number of slots in a "watch list" where you could add/remove people you want to see when they login).

Marco|FPC said:

I am keeping the thread open until Monday, then it will be closed and sent to the Design team.

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In the meantime... let's keep it focused to the question asked in the OP:

If you were a game designer, how would you make a mentor system to be used in Planet Calypso?

Also, it was requested to NOT bash on other peoples suggestions. Let's all show some respect to others. We will not all agree on everything, so be contructive.

Some people are getting warnings... let keep it at that

Lucky Seven said:

I wanted to address this post as it contains a few good ideas but primarly falicies that are commonly believed about this system.

Oleg dosent mentor anyone, and taking his advice in this area is like asking a 3 year old to teach you how to drive a car.

1. Mentoring farming is not that big a problem in this game, I farm more than anyone and Im the best mentor in game. Farming is the result of the communtiy not giving a shit about helping new players, its the communities fault that it happens, period. More players being available in the NAZ to mentor solves this problem anyway, the LACK of players mentoring in the NAZ has given the farmer the ability to farm in the first place.

2. People dont quit the game because they have a bad experience with a mentor, they quit because they dont like the game, and a mentor has very little effect on this. Many argue, including Oleg, that "people dont need mentors at all", therefore mentors have little effect on the overall game experience. What the mentor does is facilitate the education of the player, they dont determine the persons ability to pay for or enjoy the game.

3. A dedicated mentor will sign up less people? Again Oleg, not being a dedicated mentor is clueless. A truly dedicated mentor, like myself, comes up with a better way to mentor a large group of people. Restricting this activity only leaves more new players witout a mentor.
It doesnt reward creativity and skill, It just restricts the actions of the dedicated few. Maybe the message should say " Im sorry but your helping too many people at this time" - horrible idea and just bad logic.

So

Restricting the number of disciples is a horrible idea, it dosent reward effort at all.

Identifiying disciple farmers and restricting them is impossible, having more information about what the mentoring sytem is IN THE NAZ, and more availible mentors solves this problem anyway, as I have outlined in my previous posts.

Removing the reward system is the poorest idea of all, why in the world would I want to be a unpaid salesman/tour guide in this game? The current rewards are on average very poor now, and have lead to the current lack of dedicated mentors. GIVING SKILL EVERY TIME A DISCIPLE GRADS is the only good idea in this post. This shouldnt be random like other skills.

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I personally agree that their should be no limits on how many disciples one can take, what I want to see is that no matter how many disciples you may take on, that the mentor is giving quality time & teaching each and every disciple under them . If the mentor can’t do this then the disciples can leave.

Standards / Goals would have to be set by MA / FPP on what is the minimum amount of work expected from a Mentor / Disciple in a given time period.
[Don’t take this as meaning Mentors have to give peds away, but give help, education and good quality time with Disciple].

Systems preferably automated ones will have to be created this way it will not tie up to many resources .
- If mentor has no contact with Disciple for given time period (not just pms) say 2 weeks then a opption to boot?

I especially like the idea that the Disciple would be able to move to a new mentor if that mentor is not meeting established standards that will be set by FPP and can transfer his / her current standings to the new mentor.


A few other ideas:

Mentors should go threw some official form of training from FPC and need to be certified / re-certified. { This way FPC can instruct mentors on what they want the disciples to learn at a bare minimum - maybe the guides can help with this }
Maybe a small course fee to offset expenses incurred by FPC as well as show Mentor is serious about mentoring (once again good rewards should be given for hard work).

Some type of tag over aviator showing they are a certified mentor that meets FPC standards.
*

1. Mentorship is offered by societies and not individuals.
2. The number of disciples is limited to a % of active members in the society.
3. At graduation disciples get a reward that is related to the skill they graduate with.
4. At graduation societies get some game element that benefits the society as a whole. For example, after 5 graduates the society gets a special chat channel for officers only.

The Mentor system should:
1. Help newcomers to find there way in EU -> Information
2. Offer an extra dimension to gameplay -> Motivation
3. Keep the newcomers in EU -> Continuation


A) The first step is allways to bring newcomers and Mentors together. Most newcomers are not aware of the Mentor system and often react with reservation. In order to avoid these problems there could be following changes (i will allways try to order by priority and complexity)

1. Information window on arrival. The Mentor system should be explaind in short and newcomers should be encouraged to find a Mentor.
2. Skill points in one choosen fild of discipleship. As soon as a disciple gets a Mentor he/she gets some Skill Point in an instant as soon as the "try-period" is over (disciple is bound to mentor).
3. Mentor Terminal. Mentors can list themself in one profession. Mentorpoints are shown along with a personal message like an "about me". A disciple can make an application. Onlinetime and language should also be listed. Basicly a little better than a soc-terminal.
(PS:Numbers of disciples should be limited to a few, maybe 3)


B) A disciple can only learn from a Mentor if the Mentor is "reachable" and can share information or help with tasks. This basicly translates into (Information & Motivation):

1. A Mentor gets "Mentor skills" if:
1.1 He Hunts with the disciple in Team
1.2 Crafts on the same crafing terminal
1.3 Is mining with the disciple in reach of his finder (Team Mining?!)
The disciple will get an extra sib as long as 1.1 to 1.3 is in effect.

C) Rewards.

1. Mentors get Mentor skills according to B 1.1-1.3. The Mentor gift is not rewared for a finished discipleship but for certain skill levels reached. A finished discipleship will give an extra increase on the skill (x skillpoints) (Motivation & Continuation).

2. The disciple gets a gift too as soon as he/she finished his discipleship. (Motivation & Continuation)



Beside these changes you (MA/FPC) should think about an extra economy for newcomers. Newcomers could be able to collect certain goods beside "sweat" which can be used to skill without the need to deposit. For example: Noob collects certain goods and uses them to craft a weapon/armor/ammo/bombs.... Those items can only be used up to a certain skill level and to collect more of those "noob-goods". Some "out of the ordinary" finds on hunting/mining/crafting which can be sold inside the RCE could give it an extra motivation. With this a noob could learn the basics of EU without the need to deposit or the todays drag of collection sweat.

Don Adonis said:

wel this is alreddy hapening with the old system as wel i did not meen to render that imposible how you can make abuse imposible is a complete difrend discusion.

imo people r resorsful and therer wil always be gaps

but thanks fore your inpput annyway

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i forgot to put something constructive, sorry, just saw the flaw. yes, i understand it's being done to day but we need to think of a way to prevent it, and no, limiting amount of disciples will not cut it.

anyhow, you are right, people will always find a loophole, but with the system you (and possibly I did too, would have to reread) "encourage" (not the right word, but i think you will get my drift) to abuse the system by the rewards

Wollongong said:

I disagree. If people can leave whenever, there will be a situation where people buy away disciples. For instance when the reward is worth 4 ped, then someone could offer the disciple 3 ped to switch at 99%. Both get some benefit, but the original mentor, who did all the effort, is left unrewarded for his efforts.

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can't happen atm, once you reach a certain skill level (I mean total not in a single category) you cannot become a disciple.

Too many posts to read so i guess the design team will find summarize similar ones..Essentially i think incorporating the quest system with disciple graduation is probably the only way to standardize an effective metorship program. Im not sure i like standardization but it seems to be the only stable format to regulate a set graduation objectives that could be all inclusive if formulated the correct way.

1. Mentor levels/grades : Freelancers and Soc members should be able to offer mentorship. However, to weed out bad mentors from good mentors and to allow growth as a mentor and to the disciple (to graduate), a grading or skills levelling system can be enforced, which must also be scannable or visible.

Basic Mechanics : Set up graduation specific quests (a set number). Each quest has a skills gain attribute to the mentor and disciple much the same way each mob has different damage rates, etc. Do this in a team manner and both disciple and student share points (both graduate). The mentor however can keep forming new graduation teams and keep growing/levelling up, or down as the case may be depending on the student and mentor efforts. With implementation all should start on equal footing. Those who are good with proven pre new system experience, will quickly shine over the rest whom also have a chance to catch up.
Each quest completed ends all further gains to the mentor thus preventing abuse.

2. Graduation Quests : Yes these must include the basics such as hunting, crafting etc. But its important to remember not all players want to craft or mine or trade. So there should possibly be different levels of graduation. Also Trading and working the auction should count just the same towards graduation as any other sort of graduation quest. Perhaps demo Ped’s for training purposes. Not sure how that would work, but much the same way as demo fx and other stock trading demo programs, to entice them and get them to feel part of the game until they can afford to depo.


3. Mentor Team Chats : Seen this mentioned and its a brilliant idea. It is very cumbersome to manage 5 windows with similar questions, nevermind 20 or more having to repeat the answers. Taking time for individual repeated answers, takes time away from us mentors spending our ped’s during those times, so it’s in your favour to do this without a doubt.


4. Disciple Demo Gear : Yes I know, you want all players ideally to deposit, but hey they cant all do that. And if they cant all do that, then we all loose out when they end up leaving the game for whatever noob reason. So I suggest demo gear for that purpose exclusively, perhaps also only usable in one zone or area with the sole purpose of completing graduation quests and to give new players (disciples) a good feel for the game. These weapons don’t loot (or gives marginal loot, if you feel kind enough to do that) Anyway, just a idea for your team to think about.


Just a few quick thoughts for you for now. Id do more but i have to cook tonight...



PS Marco: Good on ya for involving your player base in this sort of way. Getting suggestions from the ppl who use what you have or want to offer, can only do you, your company, and everyone of us the world of good in more ways than i think you might realize. Id hope in future you consult your customers (us) in this very same manner... Biggup to ya! Nice one...now lets chat about the Quest system when this is done....




.

Ok the chat has been mention

How about a mentor terminal so disciples can see their progress and add other disciples of that mentor to their FL.

sry if this has been mentioned

Oleg said:

The major problem with the old system is the abuse by disciple-farmers.

A farmer can sign up dozens of mentors and will get a few crappy reward gifts but occasionally one that is worth having. Since they typically put zero work into it, that works out well for them. If a disciple quits, it doesn't make any difference to them.

A dedicated mentor will sign up fewer people because they don't like to spread themselves thin. They put lots of effort in but will get fewer successful graduates (more as a proportion than the farmer, but less as an absolute number), and therefore get fewer gifts than the farmer.

So the reward system favours the first over the second when it should be the other way round. In turn that causes other problems such as a higher attrition rate from new players disillusioned because of a bad mentor.

So the big queston is - how do we solve this? Not an easy question to answer.

Some vague ideas to think about:

• restrict the number of disciples that can be taken at one time (e.g. no more than 10 on the list at one time, or no more than 5 can be taken in one week);
• identify disciple farmers and remove or restrict their ability to take on disciples;
• remove the item reward system completely and do something more with the Mentor skill;
• link mentor items to the proportion of successful graduates - so someone who graduates 30% of their disciples gets better items than someone who only graduates 5%

I'm not proposing any of these as an ideal solution, just as a springboard for discussion I guess.

Click to expand...

Im sorry, my good friend Oleg, but I dont see how you come to this conclusion, have you farmed any disciples? If you havent, on what do you base these assumptions?


1. Mentoring farming is not that big a problem in this game, I farm more than anyone and Im the best mentor in game. Farming is the result of the communtiy not giving a shit about helping new players, its the communities fault that it happens, period. More players being available in the NAZ to mentor solves this problem anyway, the LACK of players mentoring in the NAZ has given the farmer the ability to farm in the first place.

2. People dont quit the game because they have a bad experience with a mentor, they quit because they dont like the game, and a mentor has very little effect on this. Many argue, including Oleg, that "people dont need mentors at all", therefore mentors have little effect on the overall game experience. What the mentor does is facilitate the education of the player, they dont determine the persons ability to pay for or enjoy the game.

3. A dedicated mentor will sign up less people? Again Oleg, not being a dedicated mentor has no basis for this argument. While his heart may be in the right place, there is another explaination for my actions. A truly dedicated mentor, like myself, comes up with a better way to mentor a large group of people. Restricting this activity only leaves more new players witout a mentor.
It doesnt reward creativity and skill, It just restricts the actions of the dedicated few. Maybe the message should say " Im sorry but your helping too many people at this time" - horrible idea and just bad logic.

So

Restricting the number of disciples is a horrible idea, it dosent reward effort at all.

Identifiying disciple farmers and restricting them is impossible, having more information about what the mentoring sytem is IN THE NAZ, and more availible mentors solves this problem anyway, as I have outlined in my previous posts.

Removing the reward system is the poorest idea of all, why in the world would I want to be a unpaid salesman/tour guide in this game? The current rewards are on average very poor now, and have lead to the current lack of dedicated mentors. GIVING SKILL EVERY TIME A DISCIPLE GRADS is the only good idea in this post. This shouldnt be random like other skills.[/QUOTE]

And lastly, besides me, who are all these farmers in game? Please name just a few, I dont think you can do this.

Have true farmers existed and still exist, sure they do! But I want to make two points here.

1. If you dont help your disciples, then will most likly not grad, farming really dosent work. Try it, and you will see for yourself.

2. Many mentors take on disciples and then either quit the game, or are simply not online as much as there disciples would like them to be. Hence they are labeled as bad mentors, and the above falicies are reinforced.

My first post was to much of a personal attack against Oleg so I have modified it to further show my points. I again offer you the chance to come on ventrilo and discuss your problems with me in adult manner Oleg. I think at this point that would be a good option, maybe we would both learn something. I will in the future refrain from personal attacks aginst if you, if you will do the same.

A serious lot of good ideas above.


So. My four bits:


Split mentoring into two parts: Basic and Advanced Training.

For Basic training there should be a special zone around the arrival area where any one can go to help the brand-spanking-new-comer.

These should have a little symbol over their heads that could diminish as they complete various tasks that relate to game-play mechanics. Maybe some deep color that fades with each accomplishment.

Each accomplishment could be accompanied by something like “You’ve learned how to blah blah blah” coming up in chat.

Should happen whether on their own or under guidance--it’s kind of obvious that someone’s symbol will change much faster if under guidance.

When more seasoned players enter the area they can help out these noobies without a formal agreement beyond being in the newcomer zone and teamed--if they want.

While one is teamed with a newcomer award the teacher Mentor Points for things such as:

The first times:

A Scamming 101 class!!!! (Not sure how that would work but it’s real important!)
Change chat channel
Start Private Chat
Start Trade (and each step in the trade)
Add to Friends list
Let some one be added to FL
Each first action involving the Hot-bar/Quick-keys
Sweat
Shoot while aimed at mob
Mob kill
Terminal opening and usage
…I know there’s more but I think I got the idea across…

Set some point when Basic Training is over. And then go with selecting a personal mentor to help with the more advanced aspects like hunting, mining, crafting. And so on.

Of course the “normal” mentor get’s the points if the relationship is at that point and it’s the mentor who’s teamed and teaching.

After that point whatever the Intimate--I guess is the best way of saying it-- the Mentor/Disciple system (whatever it becomes) should take over and our newb is in Advanced training.

This allows folks who like to help on occasion to get rewards and then get on with their game--and in no way interferes with the “dedicated“ mentor.

Another thing to add to the rewards for those who help are ways of gaining mentor points for such things as OP rescues and TP runs. If a person is nice enough to drop what they are doing and run a noob out of a hostile OP or to a difficult TP they should be rewarded. Mentor points would be a good way to do so.

Eventually nice people could get mentor rewards. Nowhere near as fast as a proper mentors as these guys would be getting grad. gifts and such. But if they can’t help their disciple give something to those who do.

I’ll leave levels and rewards to others--like I said at first…Lots of good ideas above.

----------------

This is just a suggestion and it should be hammered out a lot more to cover specifics that will allow balance and prevent scamming--but the general basics are there.

for me its always been the horrible prizes that you guys gave out.

First of all, I never had any disciple by myself, but I envy poeple who support newcomers with all their time!

1. A yellow dot for the Mentor on the disciples radar.

2. Increase the skill limit up to 30% for a disciples to be able to accept a mentor.

3. Adding of LFM and LFD (Looking for Mentor/Disciple Interface) to the Universe.



4. A kind of mentor ranking should be visible by interacting with another character, like to old avatar info option. I don't have any idea for the real ranking but a lot of other nice posts here do.

5. Rewards during the discipleship for the mentor to motivate. Maybe some tools that also can help him to deal or stay in contact with him. Some might be:



I'm sorry if my grammar is a bit messed up!

Glen

Lucky Seven said:

<snip>

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The big problem, in my eyes, with your method is that you send disciple invites to more or less anyone who passes by, without even speaking to them.

I think you're right that a society can be much more beneficial to a new player than an individual mentor (depends on the society and the mentor of course but in most cases I think this is true).

But what good is your mentorship offer to someone with whom you do not share a common language? What do you do when you send the invite, they accept, and then it turns out they don't speak English, only Mandarin? How do you propose to support such people?

Surely a few lines of chat first would be helpful, for the new player, for you, and for your society.

The emphasis should be on quality, not quantity - that is, new players should be matched to mentors (or societies) that are appropriate for that person, in order to give them the best possible start.

In the old system that 'quality check' could only be done by mentors themselves, a sort of self-regulation. In a new system I feel efforts should be made to encourage or even enforce it.

Just to pick up on a couple of specific points:

Lucky Seven said:

Many argue, including Oleg, that "people dont need mentors at all"

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I've never said this.

Lucky Seven said:

And lastly, besides me, who are all these farmers in game? Please name just a few, I dont think you can do this.

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I can't give you the names of the Russian gangsters who cloned my debit card and withdrew cash from my bank account last week either. That doesn't mean they don't exist or are any less criminal.

A big problem for people looking for mentors (assuming they dont RTFM like 95% of people) is there is no way to distinguish the good from the bad and ugly...I am certainly not suggesting that Mindark get complacent and simply hold aloft a few and forget about it but it wouldn't be a bad idea to have some kind of guild of mentors, just for those who have been seen to be trustworthy in the past.

When most people enter a game or the first time they look for trusted players and if a trusted mentor had a star over their head when in a certain starters area that would certainly show that they know what theyre talking about.

People with a crown ingame, star over their head, something officially given to show that they do indeed know something people will gravitate to them, and that is what Mindark desperatly needs. They need retention and people who are confused are not going to stay.

What Mindark needs is a guild of games-masters so to speak, a group who can be trusted to guide them through the early stages and keep them away from those who only wish to colour their OJs out of the goodness of their hearts.

When Simon used to speak ingame when I saw him he had a golden crown (star?), and people immediately went to him, even those like me who were brand new and had no clue who he was. A symbol like that should have that effect to newcomers even if they dont know exactly what it is.

Ah just discoverd this thread. Fantastic to see!

Most of my suggestions have already been mentioned in some form but I am guessing that the majority of my suggestions will take far too much programming/time to ever see the light of day, but.. we can hope
suggestions are as follows;
(Basic in black, ideal in blue)

-Impliment Mentor 'skill/reputation system'
-Impliment designated area for new player arrival (half acheived)
-Restrict access to new player arrival areas by avatars total skills (ie. limit new/alt avatars being able to even enter the newbie arrival areas)
-Mentor rep/skill system with structure that encourages interaction between mentors and deciples and awards both mentors and deciples for the experience. Whether it be with unique non tradeable items or skill/rep rewards.

Suggested structure;
*'Quests/training missions' to be completed. ie. perhaps 10 quest options for deciple to complete alone and 5 options for mentor and deciple to complete together. 3 out of the 5 'joint quests' must be completed for deciple to graduate. 5 out of the 10 solo 'quests' must be completed to graduate
*Each quest completed gives small 'reward' (easiest is skill/rep increase for mentor and deciple)
*Suggested 'quests'= Gain new tp, Kill a mob, team hunt, heal a player, trade an item, buy/sell an item through auction, send a PM, add to friends list, join a society, participate in an event, craft an item, obtain a mining claim, purchase an item from a shop, repair an item, Place/retrieve an item from storage etc. etc. Basically ANYTHING that will give the deciple hands on experience with the main activities within EU.

-Skill/rep system suggested structure for Mentor;
*Small skill/rep rewards for each 'quest' completed with each deciple
*Proportionately larger skill/rep reward for graduated deciples
*Bonus skill/rep for positive feedback/vote from graduated deciple
*Mentor's skill/rep VISIBLE when in new player arrival area
ie. Text or symbol visible representing Mentor's skill/rep in mentoring
such as; Text: -Apprentice, Qualified, Experienced, Teacher, Guide, Master (With 'Master' level accompanied by star or other symbol showing above avatar)

-Skill system suggested structure for deciple;
*Similar to current system;
-Skilling up in any profession increases total skills required to graduate.
-Completing the training missions/'quests' awards bonus skills and completing EXTRA training missions (ie. more than the pre-requisite '3') also awards bonus skills to help accelerate graduation.
-Positive rep/vote from mentor on graduation gives small skill boost

Overall;
-Auto graduate if graduation not activated by mentor within 2 weeks.
-Progress to graduation visible to both mentor and deciple
-Choice for deciple to 'leave' mentor at any stage
-Item reward (non-tradeable, but unique or useful) for both mentor and graduate upon graduation.
-'Loan system' between mentor and deciple;
ie. Similar to player to player trade system but with the item restricted so it cannot be dropped, traded or sold and with an 'auto return' item feature (whether on time limit or returned when activated by mentor)
-Make mentor and deciple more visible to each other
ie. 'claim radar' ability or different coloured dot on radar
-Offline message system (OK, something I've wanted for everyone for a long time , but would be great to even have a trial of this in mentor/deciple system only)
-A BIG in your face, impossible to miss sign saying "need more help? Ask for mentor player here!" Clicking sign gives desciption of what a mentor is and how the system works (incl. restrictions etc.)

Ah I could write an essay on this, but figure that's already more than enough.

Loving alot of the suggestions already given, any improvements to this system would be great to see.

Great to see the initiative in this area, looking forward to seeing it being followed up, in whatever form it takes

Cheers ,

Aly

re: disciple farming and mentor points

The numbers of "disciple farming" in the bad sense of the word seem to be hard to come by, but anecdotally here and in-game it is a problem. SCTC has taken in enough people whose mentors were MIA or ignored their disciples.

I know there are other societies besides SCTC who do their best to take in new players who may have similar stories. I think the mentor points idea is a good one because it allows flexibility in being helpful when you can.

SOLUTION

This is the problem FPC needs to overcome: Not how do we improve the mentor program? But what game design/mechanics can we implement to encourage players to help one another, especially when no one is looking? given the specifics of the context here---what can FPC do to help veteran players acclimate new players to the game?

1. Mentor as a true profession. Mentors must pass a small/short test about EU knowledge. Once passed the player can be a mentor and "work" as a mentor with new players on new player quests.

2. Quest system for new players in which a new player is paired with a mentor for that quest only.

3. New player gets skills and mentor gets mentor skills with each quest.

In this scenario the mentor has been vetted in a small way. The new player gets help with whatever they are working on at the moment. The relationship between new player and mentor can be long or short. This relationship is more along the lines of a tutor. The thing the mentor and new player share in common is the specific action the new player is working on.

This also gets rid of the old mentor/disciple problem where the mentor was asked to be a teacher. Being a teacher is hard there are whole schools and programs set up to teach teachers how to teach. FPC needs to do a little of that with mentors.

. People dont quit the game because they have a bad experience with a mentor, they quit because they dont like the game, and a mentor has very little effect on this. Many argue, including Oleg, that "people dont need mentors at all", therefore mentors have little effect on the overall game experience. What the mentor does is facilitate the education of the player, they dont determine the persons ability to pay for or enjoy the game.

Click to expand...

People do quit if they are treated badly. Having a bad mentor that doesn't have or want to take the time to do one-on-one training is one way n00bs are sometimes treated badly.

It is true that they quit the game because they don't like it, but mentors should not encourage that not liking the game by farming!

I do agree with Oleg that the mentor system is not really needed. Entropia Forum and some similar forums, along with friends in society are all the mentoring I ever needed, or that anyone really ever needs.

If you farmed and did not take the time to do one-on-one training, it's likely that you were exploiting the system.... That's never a good thing. If you were able to successfully mentor tons of people, and do a great job as a mentor, none of your disciples would have ever quit the game... If even one did quit, your mentoring skills were probably not that great.

Now that I think about your comments, I think the mentor system does need to stay shut off for good since it creates a system where avatars are not all created equal... Similarly, the whole society ranking thing is sort of silly since it does likewise. Just because someone created a society does not mean they should have a higher social status than anyone else. All avatars are created equally. It might be neat to have a society, other than just the freelancers, that keeps all avatars in it on equal status... perhaps give everyone in there the ranking of citizen... Maybe even use that system to enable a government structure down the road...

Voting for leadership in society is a good idea, but it's easily abused...

Oleg said:

The big problem, in my eyes, with your method is that you send disciple invites to more or less anyone who passes by, without even speaking to them.

I think you're right that a society can be much more beneficial to a new player than an individual mentor (depends on the society and the mentor of course but in most cases I think this is true).

But what good is your mentorship offer to someone with whom you do not share a common language? What do you do when you send the invite, they accept, and then it turns out they don't speak English, only Mandarin? How do you propose to support such people?

Surely a few lines of chat first would be helpful, for the new player, for you, and for your society.

The emphasis should be on quality, not quantity - that is, new players should be matched to mentors (or societies) that are appropriate for that person, in order to give them the best possible start.

In the old system that 'quality check' could only be done by mentors themselves, a sort of self-regulation. In a new system I feel efforts should be made to encourage or even enforce it.

Just to pick up on a couple of specific points:



I've never said this.



I can't give you the names of the Russian gangsters who cloned my debit card and withdrew cash from my bank account last week either. That doesn't mean they don't exist or are any less criminal.

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The reason that I will continue to not approach people and wait untill they come up to me, is the enviroment that other players have created in the NAZ.
(I am refering to the old NAZ here)

When you have several people standing around warning people about mentor scammers 3 seconds after they enter the game, it scares the crap out of them. They end up not accepting a mentor at all most of the time because of this. Therefore my method allows me to recruit in mass, opposed to 1 or 2 at a time which will get you nowhere fast.

Once someone is my disciple then I begin my process which is well thought out and designed to protect myself and my other society members. I private chat them, if they dont speak my language I either drop them as a disciple or call in someone I know that speaks thier language to mentor them.


If I take on someone that speaks Russian, and I am unable to help them, it is unlikey they will grad, or be allowed into my society. There is no benefit to me at all from doing something like that, hence why would I do it? You seem to think that just adding everyone you see is an effective method, try it as I have and you will find you this is not true. Adding everyone you see does not result in you being showered with mentor gifts, as you continually assert, without ever trying it.

I have several questions that I ask as well to determine if the disciple is worth my time and effort. Failure to give me the proper responses will result in me dropping the disciple.

You look at this as a process that should somehow give everyone who enters the game some kind of basic training, I do not. I am here to build a society of good players, and to protect the current members of my society as well. I am not a tour guide.

The reason for this is simple, and has not been addressed in the thread at all. There are people out there that make new avatars, waste the mentors time, demand a starting gun and ammo, and then log out in your face. Anyone who has mentored a large number of people has had this happen to them. Do you really want to contend that a scammer deserves a 2 hour tour and free stuff?
By following your method this is what will hapen.

For this reason I offer nothing but advice to my disciples, and the opportunity to join my training society. The reason I am hard on my new members is it gives me the ability to judge thier character, and protect myself and my society.

A scammer or beggar that joins my society will leave quickly as they recieve no monitary benefit from it. As a leader I owe this to my society.

Why do I mentor and recruit this way? Because Ive tired the "accepted method" presented by this community and found it every ineffective. I believe that you have had the exact same experience, hence you dont mentor much, nor does anyone else.

Using my methods your can provide quality to quantity, I recruit, and the upper ranks of Riverboat Academy trains in mass.

If you look at this with an unbaised point of view you may see I have made very vaild points here. Saying that I farm to receive the gifts is not a very vaild argument because the majority of the gifts are worthless. I farm to quickly build a society of trusworthy, quality players.

I have reacted to the enviroment, I have adapted to deffeat the problems in the mentoring system. It has worked well.

Mods Note:

Guys dont make this thread about you. Keep the thread on topic, give suggestions (and keep it short.) and follow the request of the threadstarter.

If this thread is to be left over to the Design Team then its best its kept to the original cause.

If you wish to discuss it further then please, do so in PMs.

Hi,

FPC is looking on several ideas for adding interactivity and networking in Planet Calypso. One area we see as an important one is the Mentorship where veterans help newcomers. If you were a game designer, how would you make a mentor system to be used in Planet Calypso?

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"Permit this avatar to communicate within your Society Chat" option would be GREAT! (Until such time as the disciple graduates) That way, if I'm not online and my disciple finds themselves stuck at a remote outpost, or in great need of advice.... I can feel confident that my experienced SOC mates will be there to help him/her.

It occurred to me that the Mentor grade or level could potentially cause a few issues in game. Firstly a good mentor marked as “Ultimate” naturally will attract the largest number of potential disciples. A few potential issues I see with this is as follows:

The “Ultimate” Mentor
1. could get swamped with students (Massively interrupting his or her game play)
2. decrease the chances for lower ranking mentors to level up due to his or her singular status.
3. animosity between mentors


Perhaps a wiser formula would be to work it on the basis that not all Mentors are 100% knowledgeable in all aspects of the game (or very few at least). On that basis then divide or spread the Mentorship into specialty areas in which a Mentor is ranked.

Ie: Those that are crafters, miners, traders, explorers, event organizers and so on. This would spread the load and place less stress on the “ultimate mentor”, but more importantly afford all a equal chance to grow as apposed to a winner takes most scenario. Mentors have to skill in each category for overall status, but their highest rank is their specialty and the one they are best suited for at that time.

Just my 10pec's worth…….

Marco|FPC said:

I am part of the design team, still. ,-)

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Still, mentoring system design or not, it all comes down to this: your game is addictive, and once you deposit, you generally deposit more. However, lots of newbies don't trust online games with their CCs, no matter how well-founded and secure the game is. However, for whatever reason, they'll trust the casheirs at Wal-Mart with them So if you really want newbies to stay, give us some cash-cards or other prepaid things!

On a side note, I had another idea: what if the Mentoring skill actually did something to the rewards you get, and having too many diciples leave or become inactive at a certain skill level produced a negative result (as in loss of value/rarity in rewards gained?) Not some amount that would interfere with regular mentors, but something to stop diciple farmers.

-Trace Activity between mentor and disciple.
So 'desciple farmers' don't get lots of desciples and without helping once in a while someone is graduating.
Due to desciple farmers new ppl that being farmed get a bad first impression and might quit.

-Review the mentor skills system like it used to be, even very good mentors who spend a lot of time and effort in their desciple hardly can gain a level.

-Based on the total mentor skills and % desciples graduated , the mentor gets a higher chance of getting a nice MentorEdition item.
Someone with 1K desciples and only 1 graduated is obviously a desciple farmer and should not get rewarded.

-Mentor Satistaction Points, after a desciple is graduated he should be able to give points for his mentor from 1 - 10. A mentor which gets a high average from the desciple should get a better reward. (Or mentor get more mentor skills.)
Someone with an very low average and a lot of desciples means a bad mentor and should not be able to take a desciple anymore.

great FPC is probably not even going to read this far now that it's turned into a slugfest.

My thoughts.
1. Make sure it's not tied to ingame contact. I've been on the phone and on skype for hours with some disciples that would never be seen serverside.
2.I don't think a mentor system should be nessesary to teach new people i think the quest system should really do that.
3. However i think there should still be a mentor system to add to fun to still help out new players and provide them with background. I know talking to older players when i first started was not just benefitial but enjoyable.
4. I think the easyest way to sum up how i'd like to see the mentor system is take a look at star wars episode 2 and 3. and the relationship between Obiwan and Anakin. There should be sort of activities and quest that are specific for an older player to be partnered up with a newer player. I.e. keeping him alive to the rig.
5. I would rather see multiple micro rewards then just 1 reward, and the mentor and disicple should BOTH be rewarded.
6. Rewards can be simple like skill gains or even the ability to do a future quest. I would like rewards that where helpful to mentors to like a mindforce shield or being able to give your disciple teleporter locations without them having to goto them.
7. Add the ability to know things about your mentor and your diciples like when they last logged on profess.
8. i would like too if we regularly gained mentor skills by doing various activities with our disciples
9. make mentoring a TRUE profession where someone can have fun and enjoy being the role of a mentor.

Didn't make it through all the other posts but here are my suggestions.

Taken from the point of view of the student. When first approached by a mentor and asked to be a student they should get to see a "mentor report card" before they accept. This would be part hard facts, such as how long they have played for, their highest skills, etc, also part "fill in the blank" by the mentor, such as their language preferences, playing hours, etc, and last would be reviews from other students. The reviews would be something like ebay. Where when one completes being a student or one leaves a mentor they can leave a small note. Also the mentor should be able to "reply" to this note in the report card.

As for gifts, this seams to lead to disciple farming. Not sure if giving bigger gifts would create a system with better mentors, just more mentors. But a system to make it easier to find a mentor would be good. Perhaps some sort of terminal or possible even before they log on they can be presented with a batch of "mentor report cards."

Another note on gifts. At graduation a student should be giving a diploma. Something that they hang on a wall or put on a table. the mentor should also get some sort of minor reward such as that.

And if the system isn't based on getting huge gifts and people are doing it because they love to mentor then I think the limit should be greatly raised to take/leave a mentor. I'd say 50% would be good.

not sure if suggested already, but i think an auction type list of mentors looking for disciples and vice versa should be added.

kind of like job listings of your requirements, expectations, job choice, goals, time zones, activity, budget, etc... should be available through some type of in-game world accessable (like a 'window') to all players.

guess like a soc terminal but more like a mentor terminal.