Shouldn't 2nd Avatars be hunted and banned?

This whole argument could open up one heck of a can of worms.

What about siamese twins? One body, two heads. Is that one person? Multiple personalities? What defines a person? Also the emergance that an online persona now has legal rights of their own as in what happens to the virtual persona after the RL controller dies? Who then is actually the person, the IRL one or the virtual one?

Basically if a person is pumping more money into the game that means there is gonna be more money flowing around and gives better chances of decent returns for everyone else.

It's been the same since they brought in the Auto Clicker. I was very surprised that the price of sweat hasn't dropped too much below 0.5 considering only TP chips can use it atm. But the point is it hasn't. I've found that my returns have been better since the AC was brought in, both in hunting and in crafting though it's basically impossible to use the AC while hunting without having lots of losses. Auto Fappers? Still circulating ped through the system. It's easy economic stimulus. It's just gonna mean more money flowing around giving us all better chances for that big hof we have always wanted, weather you have a second ava or not.

Naomi said:

What is the problem with people having a second avatar? I don't see it.

Market Manipulation.
Whether you do this with 2 avatars from yourself, or between yourself and a friend...
There are sneeky ppl everywhere, also in EU, and they will always find ways to do their sneeky actions.

Any other actions generates more income for MA, that includes a second avatar for crafting, scanning,...

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bigup!

there's no accident/coincidence

I think a real way to tell is usually.... tracking player behaviour.... if Avatar 1 is the main avatar... and Avatar 2 is mostly a come online receive bulk goods then sell on auction... then it becomes more obvious what the 2nd avatar is...

I know its hard to tell... but sometimes it can be obvious... I knew a player who used 2nd avatar for the extra auction space which is unfair IMO... plus you can hide yourself in 2nd avatar as a seller... you can use 2nd avatar to somewhat hide what your main avatar does.... unless you track it down on tracker.

I think 2 avatars for 1 person shouldn't be allowed at all, what I meant by OP is that if 2 avatars are being used by 1 person... 1 is hunting 1 is mining.... not at same time BTW... its not as bad IMO (but still not allowed) as someone who uses 2nd avatar to abuse trading/auctioning/market manipulation... or any other abuses with fapping and such....

when you say auto abuse and fapping, what do you mean by that? Just standing around fapping with a bunch of mobs on you or someone following you fapping you auto while hunting?

Serica said:

It would be fairly simple if everyone had a static ISP:

One account per ISP.

Where another account is created for the same IP address, acceptable ID could be required before the application is approved.
This would enable family members to play on the same computer/isp without problem.

For those creating accounts for 'improper' purposes (ie the reasons why MA only permits one account/person), there is probably a limit of how many family members would permit their personal ID to be used in this way.

For example, I cant see anyone even in my immediate family letting me use their personal ID documents to create a 2nd account in an online game.


My personal feeling about people with 2nd accounts:
If you're willing to lie to MA about who you are (and that's what you're doing every time you give false information), how can you expect me to trust you ?

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Me and my GF play behind the same routeur(like many couple) we both have same ip...

I dont know your familly , but mine trust me enought to give me a copy of ID to send to MA or what ever , if i need for some reson...

LeWolf86 said:

I think a real way to tell is usually.... tracking player behaviour.... if Avatar 1 is the main avatar... and Avatar 2 is mostly a come online receive bulk goods then sell on auction... then it becomes more obvious what the 2nd avatar is...

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We hunt together with my GF , often we just manage loot day after...
My GF do it while i am doing something else ... she move the loot in my avatar to put them in storage or in auction...
Does that mean i own 2 avatar , no... he just mean that sometime its more easy that way....

LeWolf86 said:

I know its hard to tell... but sometimes it can be obvious... I knew a player who used 2nd avatar for the extra auction space which is unfair IMO... plus you can hide yourself in 2nd avatar as a seller... you can use 2nd avatar to somewhat hide what your main avatar does.... unless you track it down on tracker.

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what is unfair in using more slot in auction ?
Limit is what now ? 30... in was 5 in past , back them everyone had 2 or 3 avatar to put stuff in auction , or was asking herlp to friend or what ever...
MA just did increase number as the limit was total dumb...
2 avatr or ask soc mate ... what is diference ?

LeWolf86 said:

I think 2 avatars for 1 person shouldn't be allowed at all, what I meant by OP is that if 2 avatars are being used by 1 person... 1 is hunting 1 is mining.... not at same time BTW... its not as bad IMO (but still not allowed) as someone who uses 2nd avatar to abuse trading/auctioning/market manipulation... or any other abuses with fapping and such....

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again , what abuse can be performed with a second avatar that give a real advantage to a player , and that can not be performed with soc mate ?

I saw many time , some those anti second avatar , those so white white thinker , who was bidding on their soc mate item in auction because price was to low...

and abuse fapping ??? well , we still can hire fapper , is that abuse fapping ?
result are exactly same.

all this is same issue like the people who whant the auto feature to not give skill...they are just jealous that some people do things they dont...and in 99% of time , the diference is money IRL...
For almost what ever abuse , or advantage of auto click tool , its just a matter to be abel to pay for it...
Why are you jealous that someone have 5 avatar autocliking on craft machine...you are allready whining all days about how your loot are low and shity and you are jealous of someone that lose 5 time more ?
Because so far , no matter how many avatar you have , loot suck same way for all of them...

I am not sure about this but maybe new avatars means more costs at some points... Have to get him/her a new armor set, some skills to be able to fap your main and so on.. so Mindark actually makes a few more dollars on them.. It is unfair don't get me wrong.

I doubt MA will track them down and ban them though, just not worth the struggle for it...

dilly said:

Since it does clearly say in the EULA that you cannot have a second avatar, any which are active should be tracked down and deleted.

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Untill quite recently, auoclickers where against eula, now its built in.
If all avatars from same isp are deleated, EU would die within a month since there would only be 1/3 of the amount of players....at most.
Families play and there is no way to prove otherwise.

SKULL said:

why would that mean you got banned ?
2 real live ppl with each a own account np with that.
but the no second account avatar rule is easy to avoid in the way you did
(claiming your gf/sister/mother plays also
)so what the threadstarter said he they should be banned but this not possible


some avatars have clearly gotten their skills from AFK fapping
or an ATH from trapping a spider or using clickers for crafting

many more should be hunted and banned

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EU has a built in autoclicker now...should the people who used clickers before MA built it in be banned?
Maybee we should thank them instead since they, by using clickers, pointed out a need in the community.

I will give 5000 efd to the first person who can give a LEGAL way to prove that a second account is played by the same person.

you were not getting my point

in the EULA is clearly stated that some things are illegal so i find that those things should be enforced
or that those things should be allowed

auto clicking and 2nd avatars are jus a few of those things

not the situation like it was

AFK evade skilling allowed for years but not anymore now
and the rule breakers who did it before not actively hunted
huge difference in skills between the honest players and who not


about the legal way to prove that the 2 accounts is played by same person
my point exactly that rule should be gone from EULA then as there is no legal way to prove it

But how to track second ava???

Both my brother and I play on the same con.... so if you just look at ip ours should be the same

So should my account be locked then

roughrider said:

I will give 5000 efd to the first person who can give a LEGAL way to prove that a second account is played by the same person.

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I'll match his offer, so come up with a way and receive 10k efd

SKULL said:

about the legal way to prove that the 2 accounts is played by same person
my point exactly that rule should be gone from EULA then as there is no legal way to prove it

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Dont know if removing is such a good idea as many of us only have one to not risc our accounts, but I wouldn't cry over it either if they removed it same as I dont cry over second avatars (I mostly mind my own business)

Einstein said:

You mean players are not allowed to have brothers or sisters anymore?
Is EU becoming the new China?

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Naomi said:

What is the problem with people having a second avatar? I don't see it.
Market Manipulation.
Whether you do this with 2 avatars from yourself, or between yourself and a friend... There are sneeky ppl everywhere
Any other actions generates more income for MA, that includes a second avatar for crafting, scanning,...

Click to expand...

saintvio said:

honestly couldnt care less about second avatars and hope MA doesnt waste what little resources they seem to have working on this. think bringing back missing systems and launching planets is a better use of their time.

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Oleg said:

I think the second avatar question is something of a diversion from the real issues.

If someone is scamming, manipulating market rates, or otherwise abusing the system, they should be locked. It makes no difference whether or not they have second avatars.

If someone manipulates the market using a second avatar, both the accounts should be locked. If two separate people use their own avatars to manipulate the market between them, both accounts should be locked. Both are the same thing.

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See those are all reasonable people here. Oleg is totally right when to say double ava is not the issue, but the way it is used is.
And yes it's in the rules...but that doesn't mean they 're fair. Let's say you 're a hunter now and you wanna start over with a completely new ava to craft or mine, I think it should be possible.

Jambayze said:

I love it when I see Avatar's names like "Atrox Killer Dude" or "Hof Miner Hunter" where you know that the player who created this ava has played the game and this HAS to be a second avatar because how would they know that kind of name if they were really a newb?

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Ok, I do admit, I often think this too. Yet, let's not forget those that sat at friends houses when they were playing this game. They may have known the game for some time before creating their own account.

Serica said:

It would be fairly simple if everyone had a static ISP:

One account per ISP.

Where another account is created for the same IP address, acceptable ID could be required before the application is approved.
This would enable family members to play on the same computer/isp without problem.

For those creating accounts for 'improper' purposes (ie the reasons why MA only permits one account/person), there is probably a limit of how many family members would permit their personal ID to be used in this way.

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OMG!! Are you for real?
Not only is this technically almost impossible (no service provider will give all his clients a fixed IP). Furthermore it's awfully discriminating against families and invading in privacy far more than is necessary for an online game.

I mean so what if we wanna play with different people here? Maybe not even only family but also friends. That doesn't mean that MA should be getting our complete ID's while a single player should not provide this.

In my opinion MA needs to know as little as possible about me, until the day I could actually retrieve some money from the game to my account.
I value my privacy when I am online really hard.

jenny ferr said:

I'll match his offer, so come up with a way and receive 10k efd



Dont know if removing is such a good idea as many of us only have one to not risc our accounts, but I wouldn't cry over it either if they removed it same as I dont cry over second avatars (I mostly mind my own business)

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This is easy. All MA has to do is to incorporate biometrics into the login procedure. Retinal, iris, fingerprint scanning etc. Now fess up with my efd.

LeWolf86 said:

I think a real way to tell is usually.... tracking player behaviour.... if Avatar 1 is the main avatar... and Avatar 2 is mostly a come online receive bulk goods then sell on auction... then it becomes more obvious what the 2nd avatar is...

I know its hard to tell... but sometimes it can be obvious... I knew a player who used 2nd avatar for the extra auction space which is unfair IMO... plus you can hide yourself in 2nd avatar as a seller... you can use 2nd avatar to somewhat hide what your main avatar does.... unless you track it down on tracker.

I think 2 avatars for 1 person shouldn't be allowed at all, what I meant by OP is that if 2 avatars are being used by 1 person... 1 is hunting 1 is mining.... not at same time BTW... its not as bad IMO (but still not allowed) as someone who uses 2nd avatar to abuse trading/auctioning/market manipulation... or any other abuses with fapping and such....

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All I read is bla bla bla bla. Just childish gibberish about what you don't like without a real point to it and above all without any sense of comprehension of the implications and difficulties of what you demand.

Thantos said:

This is easy. All MA has to do is to incorporate biometrics into the login procedure. Retinal, iris, fingerprint scanning etc. Now fess up with my efd.

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Ahem, 8 fingers, 2 thumbs and 2 eyes. That's what, 12 possible different logins?

Me think that MA need to grow balls and stalk those fuckers !!

Of course they need to be eliminated... For exemple, a well know avatar craft all day long OA sumthing. But strangely, it seems he never sell it in auction...nor in his shop.
But we all know that this avatar have a fucking second account to put his shit on the market. And ME for exemple, if I dont want to buy any fucking item from this crafter, Im fucked up.

So yes Its unfair, Yes its a skam in some way. Track those fuckers, or make sumthing over their head like "XxXavatarXxx SECOND AVATAR".
Or make them pay a sort of tax to have the right to use a second avatar.

Many guys use second ava cause they know there are uber dickheads and nobody would buy any stuff out of them.

AND because we have an IP MA have absolutely no difficulty to spot the IP of an user, like its easy to do with a forum...
I remember, on an other site, someone tried to hack my account, but ofc he failed. The bot of the forum sent me his IP, witch I tracked down to be a french teen hater living in Paris. I even had his postal adress. And I did what was obvious to do.

AND FUCK GUYS !!!! ITS IN THE EULA SO WHAT ARE U TALKING ABOUT ??? Just push MA to apply they own rules. MAss report.

MA should BAN all user using proxy. To be able to play EU u should log and proove u using ur true IP. A protocol can be set.

Then, because its money playing, If two avatar or more have been builded from ur unique IP, u will need to prove that u realy have sister or brother or any parent who play EU.

Thats can be do as well with ID card and occasional monitoring.

Since it does clearly say in the EULA that you cannot have a second avatar, any which are active should be tracked down and deleted.

Click to expand...

The problem is what exactly does "active" mean? Since the timeline MA uses to kill off avatars for inactivity is so long, it's highly possible someone could come in play a while, logout, forget about EU and come in half a year later and recreate a new avatar - then there's two avatars... but are they "active"? I guess if the first one is never logged in to it's not - but does that mean that the player should just forget about trying to get the peds back off of that first one since that might mean having to log in to it if they ever remember they had the first one and somehow remembered the password after that many months?

Another issue - which was mentioned in another few threads... is someone that's listed in a society terminal considered "active," even if that avatar no longer exists? You see - any "founder" that is on society terminal stays founder no matter what under the current way things are... so if second, third, and 100th avatar all created societies that eventually even a handful of those became highly active with lots of participants joining them, etc. the very existence of those societies is perpetuating the myth that the founder actually exists... when the founder might really be a deleted account, account banned for not logging in for a few years, etc.

It's pretty sad that some of the founding members of our planet might be accounts that were purposefully breaking the eula and now there's nothing that can be done about it.

Well Im talking about obvious avatars who are generally just bank avatars.... obviously if you have 2 active avatars who hunt/mine/craft and then they share items or trade loot and list under auction for each other... hard to say if 2 people are playing or 1....

But there are some characters who have nothing done nothing and are floated money to trade from main avatars... or use 2nd avatars as banks and extended auction characters.... I know you say we have 30 spots now... but thats not a lot if your a trader or use auction a lot.... many times Im waiting to clear room to list more.... Turn Over = Profit = Me Happy...


Now dont get me wrong I probably didn't word my arguement fully... but I dont mean ban all players or people who share avatars and such... and I know itd be pretty hard to track.... Im sure there are some trends in avatars that can be seen as SUSPICIOUS... obviously not 100% full proof 2nd avatar... but maybe warranted a check???

An avatar with 0 skills.... with loads of peds lots of clothing could be seen as just someone who plays this game to trade... but then you think... do they trade ALL DAY and nothing else? Like Im sure at some point they must go drop some bombs or shoot or craft... maybe 2nd avatar is there??? Maybe not.... but many people know people out there with 2nd avatars... I knew a guy who did use it for the extra 30 auction spots so he had 60.... when you have loads of PED for trading... and extra 30 allows a lot of extra profit.... and its IMO its unfair.... there are other auction things that can be used with 2nd avatar also either for attempted profit gain or privacy...


Anyways it was just a debate topic... dont mean to flare peoples angers or anything, just saying that its somewhat BS.... but I guess many things in this game are BS (BTW I like this game a lot and looking forward to getting back to it...), just we all know certain things suck ....

Thantos said:

This is easy. All MA has to do is to incorporate biometrics into the login procedure. Retinal, iris, fingerprint scanning etc. Now fess up with my efd.

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Are you going to pay for my retinal scanner?

Jehu said:

Ahem, 8 fingers, 2 thumbs and 2 eyes. That's what, 12 possible different logins?

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Maybe I could use my toes too

Well IMHO, it's all a big fuzz for nothing. So what if there are some people with 2 ava's, so what that there even are that are cheating that way?

Do you get less place in auction by it? No. Do you have to trade with those players that you know are double teaming? No.
Should they follow the rules? Well yeah, but there is not 1 single way to proof it watertight. So...screw it! You can't help it, so stop whining about it and play. And if you do have proof: written confirmation of the avatar himself or so...then report it, if you want.

All the crazy ways that have been stated here to enforce it and track those players down are surreal, unthought off and often invading my privacy in a way I can hardly imagine.

Does the honest player have to be punished for those very few bastards? I think not. It's not like they F**cking terrorists or something!! Get real!

Thantos said:

This is easy. All MA has to do is to incorporate biometrics into the login procedure. Retinal, iris, fingerprint scanning etc. Now fess up with my efd.

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They cant as it's not legal in Sweden to collect such data, so sry you need to come up with a new legal way

And I'm sure Sweden isn't the only country that dont allow these things

Thantos said:

This is easy. All MA has to do is to incorporate biometrics into the login procedure. Retinal, iris, fingerprint scanning etc. Now fess up with my efd.

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Well, according to the EULA it's actually legal to allow someone else to log into your account... and this would defeat the purpose.

That's the big loophole in the whole thing. You are not allowed to have multiple accounts, but you can use someone else's account...

Lot of decent stuff I could had quoted

Second AV's are bad mmk. They are bad because there pretty much no reason for one but to get around existing rules. Im sure some of you can impress us with the imposable and type on 2 comps at the same time carrying on 4 conversation but for some reason I dont think second AV's were made for bullshiting.

At one point MA did want to hunt down the bots but that ran right to the problem of killing their true cash crop, the old established uber cheaters. So unless they wanted to start shit canning some of the top crafts and hunters, they backed off.

Yes its a big advantage not to have to follow the rules. It mess the game up when a crafter was intended only to be able to sell so much on auction and breaks those rules. Now they bring down the MU quicker and making more pec (they are flooding the market with their goods, not yours, cause u dont cheat, right? )

Anyways, to sum it up, every time some one massages the game to their advantage or cheating, they are taking away from everyone elses advantages. You got, ppl not paying fappers, not paying traders, etc and why should they when they got 2 or 3 support bots? No, second avs are a good thing

SKULL said:

in the EULA is clearly stated that some things are illegal so i find that those things should be enforced or that those things should be allowed

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Ah now - that's the basic difference between liberals and others.

A liberal would argue that a law is created to deter, not to enforce. Another viewpoint is that a law not enforced merely legitimises whatever it was meant to deny.

Who knows? My experience is that you need a few enforcements but a majority look-the-other-way.

I have two avatars, but not logged onto the other one since I started playing.

Made a male avatar first, then like 15 mins later I was told about how female armour is cheaper. Figured since I'd not done anything yet, I may as well go back and re-make... and from then on began playing on my new female character (the one I still use to this day). My first account was just left dormant/forgotton from then on. So technically, the avatar I play today is my second. Don't think that's completely unreasonable, or something that warrants a lock - especially considering the original male avatar has probably been locked/purged a long time ago. Undoubtedly I'm not the only one who did something like that!

Personally I think MA have better things to do than stalk second avatars. Unless of course they're causing a problem, or providing some sort of proven unfair advantage.

Besides, if you want MA to spend time doing the extra work, who do you think's gonna pay for the cost? If it's 1000PED for support to spend 2 minutes to recover a TT'd item, think about how much this'll be.

Maybe they just don't want so many scams run off of second accounts so people don't risk their main account. Or, people abusing the new mission system, it's difficult for them to make real rewards knowing that anything easy someone can make 10-20-100 or more accounts and just flood it over and over again. Or, people continually making new accounts with similar names to other accounts, again for scamming. Just because you can't think of a way to abuse multiple accounts doesn't mean someone else can't.

If I had 2 avas but could only play with one at a time, would that then be considered a "bad thing"?

I used to play with my wifes avatar just for the fun of getting back to basics without the stress of society, beggars and huge hunting costs. It was fun to run around swunting att neas without anyone recognizing me and just chilling.

This never cost MA anything, neither does MA or lootpool loose anything from using second avatar as fapper (not that I would ever trust the iffy AC that only works sometimes ) since you are still paying for decay in the same way anyone else would.

Everyone that is against dual accounts take for granted that they are only used for cheating other players.

I could imagine Skalman, Yoda, Star, Grave, Death etc. enjoying some relaxing gameplay without every second player bugging them to death and therefore dont see the harm in a second account unless it is used to cheat other players, but the cheat isn't the other ava, it's the fact that they are cheating you att all.

MA can't prove multiple avatars are run by the same person so this entire discussion (again) is moot.

Xen said:

MA can't prove multiple avatars are run by the same person so this entire discussion (again) is moot.

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Indeed, so stop whining, start Entropia and log on with that second avatar.

I am more worried about scams & game manipulation than I am double avatars. However having a second avatar wouldn't suit me any good as I would be sacrificing attributes to a second leaching account

I am more worried about scams & game manipulation than I am double avatars.

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You are then worried about the same thing... since multiple avatars can and does lead to scams and manipulations in some ways...

If a large society or community of people all shared one avatar as a "fund manager" or "group fund avatar" of some sort, and either dumped x amount of money in to that avatar, or used the avatar to do dividends and use the other people's money to bid on auctions to help buy group items that will be shared later, or whatever, whoever is running that avatar at any point in time could possibly take the money and run... that's high risk scam, and seems to be what could be potentially happening someday with individuals doing that sort of thing... it also creates a major problem because it suddenly creates a bit of a corportion in game... and that makes the game play highly unfair and unbalanced... How is one person with one avatar ever going to be on a fair playing ground with a whole group of people hiding behind the mask of one avatar, especially if multiple people can log in to that one avatar, allowing that avatar to have a lot more real world knowledge, etc. since 2 heads are usually better than one in some things.

Same sort of thing goes the other way around. It's not fair to pilots if one guy has an avatar in Twin, another on CND, and another on CP, and another in god knows how many planets we'll end up with...

I think that one reason this issue keeps cropping up is that as new planets enter the picture, and the quest system becomes more well developed, this virtual world will start becoming more like other virtual worlds where gold farmers are... and also, as new planets enter the picture, unless MA makes TPs to all planets free, there's going to be some travel costs and people are going to try to find as many ways to bypass those costs as they can... planets will make this whole issue a lot bigger since there simply will be more places to be, and it'll be beneficial to be in as many places as possible on some level...

mastermesh said:

If a large society or community of people all shared one avatar as a "fund manager" or "group fund avatar" of some sort, and either dumped x amount of money in to that avatar, or used the avatar to do dividends and use the other people's money to bid on auctions to help buy group items that will be shared later, or whatever, whoever is running that avatar at any point in time could possibly take the money and run... that's high risk scam, and seems to be what could be potentially happening someday with individuals doing that sort of thing... it also creates a major problem because it suddenly creates a bit of a corportion in game... and that makes the game play highly unfair and unbalanced... How is one person with one avatar ever going to be on a fair playing ground with a whole group of people hiding behind the mask of one avatar, especially if multiple people can log in to that one avatar, allowing that avatar to have a lot more real world knowledge, etc. since 2 heads are usually better than one in some things.

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Did you see how many avatar came with over 2M ped when CP got sold ?
There is a big load of people who have the cash to manipulate entropia market, and they dont need multiple avatar , or fund BS...They have the cash...
They just prefer use the time to make way more cash other way than making some pec here or there on market manipulation or what ever...

mastermesh said:

Same sort of thing goes the other way around. It's not fair to pilots if one guy has an avatar in Twin, another on CND, and another on CP, and another in god knows how many planets we'll end up with...

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Pilot was a total mafia in the end...It was the shame of entropia... i dont see about what they can complain...specially since , with VU10 , they will one day , get all the cash without doing their job...
I understand they would probably prefer to have cash now...But i guess , ND and Buzz , are happy with the TP system.. no mafia that "lock" all player one side or an other...
BTW the multiple avatar in CND or CP was because there was no storage up there...you know what , MA put storage..so no more multiple avatar for that...

mastermesh said:

I think that one reason this issue keeps cropping up is that as new planets enter the picture, and the quest system becomes more well developed, this virtual world will start becoming more like other virtual worlds where gold farmers are... and also, as new planets enter the picture, unless MA makes TPs to all planets free, there's going to be some travel costs and people are going to try to find as many ways to bypass those costs as they can... planets will make this whole issue a lot bigger since there simply will be more places to be, and it'll be beneficial to be in as many places as possible on some level...

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the reson the issue keep coming up , is , people bielive evryone who have 2 or 10 avatar , get a very big advantage out of it...Like if , having more avatar increase loot,or reduce the auction fee...

If you have multiple avatar then you have multiple skill to grow up, so you lose more...


As skull said, if there is a real advantage at something and that it is abuse , then the rule should be enforced...
If the rule is not enforced because its dumb problem , then rule should be changed , and game adapted...

So far , most of case of advantage of multiple avatar , was just to conter fight very stupid game limitation , like auction limit(MA changed it) , no storage in CND ( MA put a storage) , sweat cap ( MA remouved that cap)...

also , no one pointed out some real exemple of real advantage of multiple avatar that does not ocur allready with not multiple avatar...
The auction manipulation does not work , since , again , its somehow popular to bid on soc mate item to increase price...I would not be suprise if the real number of manipulation made by soc mate is over than those made by multi avatar owner...