FYI: Scopes and sights are taxes for MA

They do nothing besides decay and (in the case of scopes) give you night vision.* There, i said it. Ball's in their court.

Recommendation: don't pay voluntary taxes.

* https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/weapons/183305-efficiency-scopes-lasers-feb-2010-a.html

PS Feel free to bump. I still see people buying these.
PPS Full disclosure: i own 3x SE600s, a couple Ranger series scopes, and two Hunnirs. I have them in storage where they will be in the hopes MA will finally break their silence on this issue.

they give you skill mod.

What is skill mod is the question you should be answering instead of the usual drivel.

Have any post VU 10 tests on sights/scopes been done yet??
I would not just assume that skill mod has or hasn't been re-introduced just like so many other features.
That's not an easy one to confirm.

I have often wondered why it is that if scopes/sights give you skill mod, then why is it that skill mod cannot be seen in something like dam/hit rate?

voom said:

I have often wondered why it is that if scopes/sights give you skill mod, then why is it that skill mod cannot be seen in something like dam/hit rate?

Click to expand...

Well what hte fuck is the point of skill mod when it doesnt help at all?

i emailed support again and "yelled" a bit on them

There are loads of way of spending money on nothing, like, putting a evil amp on a cb5 or similar. This is not the issue. If the scopes/laser don't make a difference on a maxed weapon, it's shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone with an IQ above 30. However, and this is the important part, does it make a difference on a weapon which is not maxed? I don't know. When using skill modification enhancers, it shows you the difference it makes in the stats on the weapon, however, when it comes to scopes and laser, it shows no difference at all. min/max damage is still the same, as is your hit and critical hit stats. This bothers the hell out of me as the only was one can interpret this is that scopes and laser make no difference at all.

This sight will increase the shooters aim.
This scope will increase the shooters aim.

Click to expand...

The above tells us that scopes and lasers will only make a difference when taking about miss rate, which usually is around 10% for most I think.

you can, if you are willing to pay for it, achieve a skillmod of 51.5% by using scopes and lasers, which would suggest that the miss rate, on any weapon, maxed or not, could be lowered to <5%.

Now if hit rate is 10/10, this could of course be increased to fx. 11/10, but this wouldn't really tell us anything since we don't really know what 10/10 means and 11/10 (or higher) would suggest a higher hitrate than 100% which of course wouldn't make much sense.

What I'd suggest MA to do is this. (I assume of course that scopes and lasers do make a difference)
Make it absolutely clear how things work regarding this issue.

or

In such case that scopes and lasers cannot make a difference regarding hitrate due to the fact that maximum hitrate is already achieved, raise the average damage instead.

Second suggestion is unlikely to happen since scopes and lasers are UL and would offer a significant increase in dmg/pec.


As some may remember, I've made a little program to monitor exact miss rate, dmg/pec and dmg/sec (theoretically) and I'll be sure to test this at some point. However, doing so with a maxed weapon at first, as this is really what's important since MA hasn't specified that scopes and lasers won't make a difference in such a case.

I could use some help with this however. That is, suggestions regarding which UL weapon to use. High reload is prefered and it has to be maxed at level 50 or below. This weapon I will probably have to borrow and I can place some collateral, but not a lot. Possibly a good deal on a Jzar scope (for the course) and two high end lasers. I doubt that anyone will offer me ignaritz or Jakth at TT but a good deal on hunnir maybe.
Last, but not least, which creature to hunt. Obviously it has to fit the weapon in question, but it also need to be available in an area with only this mob, a lot of them and maturity has to be as (language barrier) slim as possible. That is preferably only one maturity, but I don't think that exists.


Wow, I write a lot when I'm bored

NB:
I haven't read it all through. I may have said some things that don't make sense, maybe I've repeated my self, made some weird typos or whatever. Please bare with me.


Best regards.

just got this from support

2010-05-12 18:56 Entropia Universe Support: Hi, There have been some more questions regarding scopes, therefore the design team is currently putting together information to reply to everyone's questions. This will be posted in our News section in the very near future, although we do not have an exact date. We apologize for the waiting time but asure you it will be worth it. Thank you for your patience. Kind regards, Entropia Universe Support

Click to expand...

~CHOPPER~ said:

Have any post VU 10 tests on sights/scopes been done yet??
I would not just assume that skill mod has or hasn't been re-introduced just like so many other features.
That's not an easy one to confirm.

Click to expand...

plenty of tests and its easy to do. do improvment to hit or dmg spread with scopes+sights, therefore skills are not modified, unless its something obscure and inconsequential like one skill (aim?) is modified only.

Legion said:

just got this from support

2010-05-12 18:56 Entropia Universe Support: Hi, There have been some more questions regarding scopes, therefore the design team is currently putting together information to reply to everyone's questions. This will be posted in our News section in the very near future, although we do not have an exact date. We apologize for the waiting time but asure you it will be worth it. Thank you for your patience. Kind regards, Entropia Universe Support

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

that sort of says to me that they're trying to write something that appears to answer the question but is as vague as possible and with no actual facts i.e. the usual fob them off and hope theres enough infighting to make everyone forget about it.

The reply they gave Legion just seems like total bollocks to me.. how long have people been sending cases asking what legion asked ??.. and NOW forward it to design team??... so they can fabricate a reason that validates it's current purpose while avoiding the possible uselessness over the past few years? (hidden tax) (with regard to skill mod i mean btw) meh...Please someone make a game so i can plaiy IT instead of this one.. soooo tired now.... soooo tired.

SpikeBlack said:

that sort of says to me that they're trying to write something that appears to answer the question but is as vague as possible and with no actual facts i.e. the usual fob them off and hope theres enough infighting to make everyone forget about it.

Click to expand...

kind of what i think aswell, they will answer but it wont tell us a whole lot.

aridash said:

plenty of tests and its easy to do. do improvment to hit or dmg spread with scopes+sights, therefore skills are not modified, unless its something obscure and inconsequential like one skill (aim?) is modified only.

Click to expand...

Plenty? Feel free to post a link.

I actually tested this out once, was very short test, a couple of 100 ped hunts or something, and have unfortunately thrown data out sometime ago. I seem to recall however, that I actually missed more with scopes/sights on (this was on max hl8 I think), so I gave up using them altogether.

~CHOPPER~ said:

Have any post VU 10 tests on sights/scopes been done yet??
I would not just assume that skill mod has or hasn't been re-introduced just like so many other features.
That's not an easy one to confirm.

Click to expand...

~CHOPPER~ said:

Plenty? Feel free to post a link.

Click to expand...

Doer said:

They do nothing besides decay and (in the case of scopes) give you night vision.* There, i said it. Ball's in their court.

Recommendation: don't pay voluntary taxes.

* https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/weapons/183305-efficiency-scopes-lasers-feb-2010-a.html

Click to expand...

i dont want to point out the obvious, but, the answer to both your questions is in the first post

"Hi, There have been some more questions regarding scopes, therefore the design team is currently putting together information to reply to everyone's questions."

rofl that`s just awesome... they are trying to find some informations about their own game?

XeroX2 said:

"Hi, There have been some more questions regarding scopes, therefore the design team is currently putting together information to reply to everyone's questions."

rofl that`s just awesome... they are trying to find some informations about their own game?

Click to expand...

Actually I think they're coding the stuff they're supposed to do

The problem I see with testing is this: While you are testing phase 1, you will get a few green chats saying your skill in something has increased. testing phase 2, you start out with more skills than you had in phase 1.

So you would need a "neutral" avatar, one with a set skill level that was always the same and never changed.

it's the same with some mining logs: "After much testing and experiments I find resources much more consistently using the method I developed over a year testing my theory." yah I bet you do. A year ago your skills were less than today 10,000 probes/bombs later.

SpikeBlack said:

that sort of says to me that they're trying to write something that appears to answer the question but is as vague as possible and with no actual facts i.e. the usual fob them off and hope theres enough infighting to make everyone forget about it.

Click to expand...

Didn't realize he'd posted it in both threads and replied to it in the other one, but that's basically what i said, too. We gave them exact information on what we have tested and what is almost impossible to test so that (if they want) they can hone a response to tell nothing at all.

Like i said earlier, though, i don't even so much care as long as the apparently deceptive language on the sights and scopes is reconciled.

@Jambayze: you're free to read the linked thread, or any of the much more meticulous and protracted studies on skill gain (e.g. hijacker's with support weapons). Testing it isn't as challenging as you make it sound: it's not rocket science, but it's still mathematically (statistically) sound. In EU, much like in statistical mechanics, observation of sufficiently large numbers of events/particles can be used to find meaningful trends in systems with fluctuations at some level.

still belive in MA/FPC. If they said it i sworth waiting, it will be...if not i think this will be last dissapointment they make to me.

Skill mod what?

I thought the laser sights and scopes affected skillmod in terms of increasing the rate at which you get skill ups, like...

if you shoot 1000 times and get 5 skill ups in a particular skill, attaching a 20% skillmod sight onto the wep would grant you 6 skill ups for every 1000 shots, so 120% skill increase rate...

Could that be it?

It does have that effect.

However that is due to the fact that you are spending more $$ per click of the weapon due to the additional decay from sights/scopes.


For example.
Ore Amps and EnMatter Amps significantly increase the rate at which you attain mining skills. However these amps do not include any type of skillmod in either their description or on the item info you attach it to.


Will be interesting to see MA's response in regards to this. I doubt it will be helpful though

All are free to read the linked thread before posting. lol

I challenge this idea that gets tossed around that just putting some decay on a gun increases your skill. There's no reason to believe that's the case, at least not any more than to believe otherwise. It's a pretty miniscule fraction of total output cost under most circumstances and can't possibly be relevant to the % skill mod attachments are labeled with. Let's not lose sight of that point.

Scopes are defintiely usefull, they will help you nail targets with your tagger that you would sometimes miss, and the decay is very minimal.

Laser sights on the other hand I'm not finding so useful, but given that the decay I pay on these is less than 2% of my total hunt costs, I'm probably going to leave them on there on the off chance that they are doing something.

Look at it this way, if it costs me 2% more to use the scopes/sights and it improves my hunt by 3% then its worth it. Would I notice a 3% difference... probably not. Neither would your test. But screw it, its 2% stop being such tight asses

Edit: They also make your weapons look seriosuly badass, so hell i'll pay it

Entropia Universe Support: Hi, There have been some more questions regarding scopes, therefore the design team is currently putting together information to reply to everyone's questions. This will be posted in our News section in the very near future, although we do not have an exact date. We apologize for the waiting time but asure you it will be worth it. Thank you for your patience. Kind regards, Entropia Universe Support

Click to expand...

Translation:

Entropia Universe Support: Hi, There have been some more questiosn regarding the scopes, unfortunately the guy who coded that part of the game was like really, really smart. But he left the company 6 months ago and didn't tell anybody how it works, so now we have no idea. We are currently looking into it and will give you the information when/if we finally manage to work it out. Kind regards, Entropia Universe Support

Wait till someone gets the response from support that says...

We have looked into the effects of scopes and lasers and we appriciate you all bringing this to our attention. It has been determined that the decay rates on the scopes and lasers for the enhancement they provide was set wrong and has been adjusted accordingly.

The very next hunt you do your decays from their use has tripled or more.

It WAS very minimal but I am betting in the near future it will no longer be so thanks to this big push of inquiries.

addz said:

But screw it, its 2% stop being such tight asses

Click to expand...

2% is 20 to 30K Ped per year for some of us.

But i guess it is also a matter of trust. As long as there are "irregularities" in things we can test it will be hard to convince people that things we can't test so easy (i.e. the loot system) is not flawed.

only uses scopes... sneaking around peeking...



















I have no idea how i know this...

timb0eh said:

I thought the laser sights and scopes affected skillmod in terms of increasing the rate at which you get skill ups, like...

if you shoot 1000 times and get 5 skill ups in a particular skill, attaching a 20% skillmod sight onto the wep would grant you 6 skill ups for every 1000 shots, so 120% skill increase rate...

Could that be it?

Click to expand...

cryptic answer from me before we most likely get a similar cryptic answer from ma.. but your on to something

That is IF my suspicion is correct.. if it is ma sure wont tell us though atleast not give a straight answer about it.

truantduck said:

they give you skill mod.

What is skill mod is the question you should be answering instead of the usual drivel.

Click to expand...

That's just it.... they DON'T give skill mod anymore.

"Skill Modification Bonus" is just as it sounds. Your skill level gets modified. ie: If you're a HA level 6.0 and you slap on a scope with a skill mod of 25% then that USED TO add 25% to your HA... so... at a 6.0 HA you'd be hitting like you had a 6.7 HA. HOWEVER.... like many other things in the universe.... it's been NERFED along with loot and Proteron.

Menace