Turnover of players

JoseMTacoral

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TCNL JoseM TACORAL
I've been three years in Entropia Universe, and if I had to make a list of things that attracted my attention the high turnover of players, noobs or veterans, sweaters or depositors, would be in the first place. Very few of them have continued playing since July 2007 and very few make it through the first year as frequent players.

¿Is this product of the successive economic crises in real life, the hardware needs of CE2, the difficulties of the game or the low loots?. Or rather is a deliberate policy of Mindark that prefer a constant renewal of players because they do not deposit or because depositing little they occupy space in servers without benefits. Most of my working life I have spent on service companys or organizations where the main concern was to keep existing customers, so ¿What do you think is the reason for that to happen?
 
If there was a "tactic" to lower player base,, well,, thats a stupid one....
 
After some time people see the difference between gaming and gambling.

The house always win!
 
If there was a "tactic" to lower player base,, well,, thats a stupid one....

Uhm well I think marco actually said that the ideal player would stay 6months or so in EU right? Sooo actually that IS MA`s tactic. yes
 
Whatever factors are involved, those results must also be tempered against the average "churn" factor for other MMORPGs. I understand that 6 months is a pretty average figure for a new player to stick with a MMORPG.

Given a finite market, doing better than the other guys in both recruiting and retention are good.
 
So what MA wants is to deposit and spend the PEDs as fast as possible, then free your spot in the servers and never see you again?

Man, MA is a b1atch... sorry ;(
 
So what MA wants is to deposit and spend the PEDs as fast as possible, then free your spot in the servers and never see you again?

Man, MA is a b1atch... sorry ;(

Like every other company in computer games want?

Paying 50 bucks for a 6 hours FPS-game with a B-movie story line .... come on. Main reason i dont buy other games anymore.

Tho most players that come here go hunting with big guns UnL and forget to think about eco etc. Gimme a newbie and 200 ped ... i can show him a way to play for fun and deposit only 20 dollar a month (20 dollar is a fee for almost any other mmo)
 
Like every other company in computer games want?

Paying 50 bucks for a 6 hours FPS-game with a B-movie story line .... come on. Main reason i dont buy other games anymore.


In my opinion most subscription mmos prefer veteran and dedicated players.
 
Uhm well I think marco actually said that the ideal player would stay 6months or so in EU right? Sooo actually that IS MA`s tactic. yes

Marco never said that - it is a ZOMBIE quote. He said 6 months is average for typical MMO's, but that MA's churn is slower than that.

To the OP - Player's turn over in every game, and EU is only different in that the average player stays longer, but player turnover is wholly unsurprising. What would be unusual would be if players all stayed.

Players come, players go, players even come back and leave again. Nothing odd about any of that. The question I ask in these threads is always the same - how long have you played in EU? How long have you played any other game?

:beerchug:

Miles
 
Since the beginning MA has never advertised but instead relied on advertising tricks to lure new players.They never go out of thier way to talk to thier customers about the business unless thier looking for free advice or want them to produce free advertising for them.And they never have shown much interest in thier current customers.Its the "game" itself that keeps them in business if it wasnt for that i doubt they would have lasted a year running any other business .
 
Uhm well I think marco actually said that the ideal player would stay 6months or so in EU right? Sooo actually that IS MA`s tactic. yes

NO! No, he has NOT said that!!! :cussing:

Always with that quote... What he said was that the AVERAGE TIME a person spends in ANY MMO is 6 months!

EDIT: Ah, Miles posted the same while I was writing, nm then

In my opinion most subscription mmos prefer veteran and dedicated players.

Subscription MMOs wants players to stay as long as possible, so they will keep paying the subscription ofc... :rolleyes:

Same reason as why MMOs without a monthly cost releases sooo many more add-ons than the subscription ones...
 
To the OP - Player's turn over in every game, and EU is only different in that the average player stays longer, but player turnover is wholly unsurprising. What would be unusual would be if players all stayed.

Yeah I would like to know how many percent of WoWs accounts for example that are actually active, non-goldfarmers... And how many of the accounts are double/triple accounts :eek:

(I know a friend of mine has bought like 3-4 different copies of the game just cuz he stopped playing and lost them and then started again, or some other reason)
 
As Bill Clinton said, "It's the economy, stupid"

To some extent player turnover is a /good/ thing. It validates MA's concept. If there were not players cashing out and leaving the whole RCE concept really isn't working. Pham quit and took a large sum of money with him. I would hardly call this a failure. The question is, is it good or bad for the rest of us, and for MA. Well, that is very much up to debate.

I realize I haven't really answered your question at all, but oh well. :laugh:
 
I've been three years in Entropia Universe, and if I had to make a list of things that attracted my attention the high turnover of players, noobs or veterans, sweaters or depositors, would be in the first place. Very few of them have continued playing since July 2007 and very few make it through the first year as frequent players.

Donno, do you have any figures about that or is it guesswork? Because i play since 5 years and my friendlist is full with people who are around since 2 to 5 years (some even longer) and still active.
Of the closer friends i had from the beginning a total of three are non active at the moment. Some others i wasn't so close but noticed they aren't active anymore i have seen coming back with new avatars.

Uhm well I think marco actually said that the ideal player would stay 6months or so in EU right? Sooo actually that IS MA`s tactic. yes

Marco never said that - it is a ZOMBIE quote. He said 6 months is average for typical MMO's, but that MA's churn is slower than that.

Right. Not only did he not say that, he said quite the opposite:

* What is MA going to do to stop the 70% of the players leaving in the first month of joining?

First of all, the churn rate of 70% isn't as bad as it sounds considering that Entropia Universe is free to download and many people do that without any idea of what to expect. Many then discover that Entropia isn't for them and leave quickly. That being said, we still want a higher conversion rate into active participants and we hope to improve that statistic during the coming season. On a side note, the Entropia Universe has quite a high number of long-term participants, many whom have been with us for years, compared to the ordinary MMORPG-mean of 5-6 months.

Nonetheless i have seen the misquote "Marco said MA aims for 6 month player retention" dozens of times. And so gets pretty much everything misquoted he ever said here on the forum. Someone twists it around and 100 other repeats it.

It is really no surprise communication with us is limited.
 
Nonetheless i have seen the misquote "Marco said MA aims for 6 month player retention" dozens of times. And so gets pretty much everything misquoted he ever said here on the forum. Someone twists it around and 100 other repeats it.

It is really no surprise communication with us is limited.

Just like that Marco said they are aiming to "decrease the amount of non-looters" and was then quoted as saying that they would remove ALL non-looters :D
 
Like every other company in computer games want?

Paying 50 bucks for a 6 hours FPS-game with a B-movie story line .... come on. Main reason i dont buy other games anymore.

Tho most players that come here go hunting with big guns UnL and forget to think about eco etc. Gimme a newbie and 200 ped ... i can show him a way to play for fun and deposit only 20 dollar a month (20 dollar is a fee for almost any other mmo)

You're right, you should be paying 100 dollars for a 20-60hr rpg with a AAA grade storyline!
 
the longest game I played was 7~8 years lol spend like 40 bucks on it....
Another one is like almost 11 years, but the CD went broken, so I had to buy it later on ebay...
I still play those :) when I am not playing this one. They are good for short intensive playing....
But playing EU is like try to play less as possible attitude.
I think a lot of people just dont want to spend so much money and get nothing in return. Of course you have profs in any type of games, if you are prof , you always think this is the best.
I stay this long, because no matter what, I still like gather sweat... it is very weird.
Guess if you dont like gather sweat , it is very hard game. really hard .....
 
In my opinion most subscription mmos prefer veteran and dedicated players.
EU IS a subscription based mmo if you are an estate owner. Wish they'd fix that problem though since monthly fee is, I think, what keeps shops and apartments from being more active. People realize that they aren't making back their monthly fee all the time, so they stop paying the monthly fee... then the cities look like ghost towns, and people start complaining here on the forums... It's a gigantic vicious circle. If MA would drop the maintanence fees for at least 5 years, if not forever, this game would look a whole lot different.
 
If MA would drop the maintanence fees for at least 5 years, if not forever, this game would look a whole lot different.

How about if they lowered them at least? :D
 
After some time people see the difference between gaming and gambling.

The house always win!

I personally see this as the single biggest issue. There is almost no chance of the average user making money without pouring in massive resources, and putting in alot of hours.

Compared to the kind of returnes you are likley to get in EU, I'd rather work for a living, and play something else. I chased globals my first few months, and learned you just can't do it. From then on I have tried to play a eco as I can (being a low depositer) and in 2 years have not had a single global.

Now before I get flamed for that no global statement I know dang well that it is all a crap shoot, "ya' pays yer money and takes yer chances" but I have been around long enough to see the trends of who gets the ATHs and how loot seems to be distributed.

You have to make a second job out of EU or be in for the (very) long haul to get anywhere here.

Nobody has been able to figure out what MA wants but it basically boils down to this.

1. Sucker as many people as possible for as much money as you can for as long as you can.

2. Keep making superficial changes to keep people hooked.

3. keep large transactions in the headlines to keep sucking new people in.
 
New player, delude with the big HOF's that every day show on HOF list (in 1 year I ll get one of those too, think the guy) and maybe with a sweet litle hof while hunting troxs, make the guy staying and keep depositing, daydreaming with that 1k ped that never come, while "loot manager" squeeze your pedcard (and VISA too) very intelligently.

Till the day the guy wakeup and realize that those big loots will never come for him, and about 40k/50k peds of total depo are now 20k peds in skills that still fall in markup every day.
I m get out of here, what a crazy game!

Repeat cycle!
 
I think its partially because gameplay is very repetive and can get boring fast. I mean you can you use different weapons, hunt different mobs, or mine enmatter or ores, mine different areas, or craft different items. But basically its all very similar and can wear thin on ya. I know you can do other things too but I just touched on the big 3 of entropia.
 
I have ran a rl business I never wanted to run my customers away why would Mindark want to? Doesn't make logical sense and the quote has already been stated...

I don't have much more to say that hasn't already been said.

kosmos
 
I think its partially because gameplay is very repetive and can get boring fast. I mean you can you use different weapons, hunt different mobs, or mine enmatter or ores, mine different areas, or craft different items. But basically its all very similar and can wear thin on ya. I know you can do other things too but I just touched on the big 3 of entropia.

which is why it amazes me when people say they play for 10-12hours a day every day :eek:
 
¿Is this product of the successive economic crises in real life, the hardware needs of CE2, the difficulties of the game or the low loots?. Or rather is a deliberate policy of Mindark that prefer a constant renewal of players because they do not deposit or because depositing little they occupy space in servers without benefits.

Ok, suppose we exclude the alternative that is a policy of Mindark, there are still the first assumption could be divided into external factors (international financial crisis, etc..) Or internal factors (low values of the loot, etc.)

¿What that proportion would have each one, 50% and 50%? "25% and 75%? In my view, the responsibility is attributable more to factors external to their own mistakes. Mindark at a rate of 60% to 40%.
Anyway, I thinks that Mindark could do more for customers than it does today.
 
¿What that proportion would have each one, 50% and 50%? "25% and 75%? In my view, the responsibility is attributable more to factors external to their own mistakes. Mindark at a rate of 60% to 40%.

I ask you again. Responsibility for what? Are you saying EU has a lower retention rate then the average subscription free MMO?
 
Unless they publish real quantative values for active players we'll never know.

Although with many of the free ones you pay to take shortcuts or get add-ons. You can still play if your broke, whereas EU you can't unless your willing to sweat for long periods to scrape enough together for a small hunt.
 
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I ask you again. Responsibility for what? Are you saying EU has a lower retention rate then the average subscription free MMO?

I Dont know what is the average customer retention in others mmorpg, but have seen hundreds of players go through our mmorpg and from thouse very few remain.

Everything makes me believe that this rate could be improved. First making an effort to communication, promotion and advertising. Secondly changing changing the idea that this is a game "free" by the reality: "This is a game where each player decides how much money will spend to play it and when he will do it."

As a society leader I often face two newcomers questions: "Is it true that you can withdraw money from this game? and ¿When I can start killing creaturos in order to earn peds? Because they have seen any promotion of Mindark game that tells them "tired of killing creatures without payment ..."

When they discover that they must deposit real money again and again to have any chance of ever withdraw money, they will not return.
 
There's a number of factors as to why folks quit the game.

Actually the way I see it is that there are a number of layers in this MMO that people don't realize and that some people tend to forget. And this is either for the new player or the veteran. After all, we have to look at several factors.

First off let's take a look at the economy, both in RL and in game. What has caused a lot of problems that have happened in RL, are also happening in the game, most notably the manipulation of the markets in general, and the cut throat tactics of resellers in game. Add to that the fact that a lot of players have this "Greed is good" mentality, and thus set unrealistic goals to succeed.

Then there's the newcomers. A lot of turnover happens here because of one thing, and that thing is in fact, and relates to the previous comment, especially the "Greed is good" part. They lack the one thing that a lot of players have in any MMO and that is in fact patience. A lot of newcomers don't pace themselves, and want quick results, thinking like they are playing (Insert another MMO name here), and that they can be a great hunter, miner, or crafter in just a few weeks (and yes this comes from a player who has been in the game for just 27 months and who has only 50K of skills, with only 9 globals to his name (and a lot of team globals as well that do show up on Entropia Tracker, but are usually lost in the fact that it's under a team name). But I digress. A lot of newcomers today want quick results. Waiter, reality check please. A lot of players need to pace themselves.. I mean I go out and I do deposit, but I work within a budget, and know when to quit when the hunting or mining is bad.

That plus the fact that a lot of newcomers are looking to get rich quick.. I myself like to think of this as more of a long term investment than a get rich quick scheme.

Now granted the loots have been bad, (most notably on Calypso), but then people tend to stick to one area, rather than migrate to another part of the MMO (Namely and currently Rocktropia). If you look at the market in general on Calypso, it's a market where everyone is trying to get greedy, and thus you see the market fluctuating wildly (add to that, the fact that folks are manipulating the market, and it makes it very hard for any player down on Calypso to even turn over a profit.)

Now up on Rocktropia, the reverse is true. Here is a wide open market, and sure it's linked to the Calypso market, but the thing is that right now the market is wide open. I had a friend who had been in game two years ago return, and he vowed to leave Calypso, and take his crafting business up to Rocktropia, and you know what? He's making a small fortune and doing it under the markup of the Calypso market.

Now then, what does this all mean? Well considering that you have market manipulators, a poor economy, people who are greedy, and a lot of folks who are close minded, they tend to quit a game frustrated, and in fact with very little (or no cash) on their PED card. They blow through hundreds (if not thousands of PEDs and get frustrated that they're getting low returns, and of course the key thing is that they fail to pace themselves.

In the end, those who do quit really aren't real gamers in the sense.. A real gamer is someone who is willing to pace themselves, to learn how to budget, and importantly, know when to stop, or look for some new opportunity to come along.

In closing I feel that if there are real players out there, they do know what to do, and they're succeeding. Those who don't, won't..

That's my two PED on the matter.

Benjamin Ben Coyote
A.K.A. "The Blind Sniper"
 
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