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Turnover of players

JoseMTacoral said:
I Dont know what is the average customer retention in others mmorpg, but have seen hundreds of players go through our mmorpg and from thouse very few remain.
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Of course, if you are involved with helping new players, then even a 'normal' retention rate of 'only' 30% looks horrible.

It is the reason why i stopped 'official' mentoring long ago. Couldn't stand it. Only had a few disciples and half of them left after a short while. I appreciate people who can deal with that but i rather kept trying to help a bit older players with hunting advices. That was way more satisfying for me.

However, i don't know what the retention rate is, and obviously you don't know it either. Personally i think considering the nature of EU i would call anything around 10% a huge success!

Of course a RCE game attracts lot of people with unreasonable expectations, and of course most of this group will leave at some point, most sooner then later. Nothing can change that.

JoseMTacoral said:
Everything makes me believe that this rate could be improved. First making an effort to communication, promotion and advertising. Secondly changing changing the idea that this is a game "free" by the reality: "This is a game where each player decides how much money will spend to play it and when he will do it."
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"Free to download" and "No monthly subscription fee" is what i did read 5 years ago on the website before i started, and thats whats still written there.

Ahh, and also there was one sentence something like "make a living by hunting, mining..." somewhere. I had a good laugh once i realized some people understood that as "make a real life living". :laugh:

Of course i assumed "in game living". I was rather surprised to discover some people are actually making a real life living.

That was the idea that attracted me: No base Fee and if i 'work' harder ('work' like in any hobby) make better decisions, be modest and patient, gain in game knowledge then i can play for free and progress. I realized the RCE part will make it hard, because after MA got their share it is a competition about markup between the players. Even a one day noob can understand that.

And thats exactly what i got delivered!

The one adversing poster with "Tired of killing monsters without getting payd..." Well, i thought it wasn't such a good idea. However, from my view it is not so untrue either.

JoseMTacoral said:
When they discover that they must deposit real money again and again to have any chance of ever withdraw money, they will not return.
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Come on, i know so many people who never deposited and have withdrawable amounts of peds. And i see such a clear difference in behave patterns between those who profit and those who don't that i really really don't buy into that. What you actually meant is: When they discover that they must work in game* to have any chance of ever withdraw money, they will not return.

* I am not talking reselling or any other service profession. I consider anybody who, and even if slow like hell, earns by mining, hunting or crafting an 'in game professional', and professionals do work. Point.
 
IMO, the game needs a turnover of players in order to survive. everyone who plays EU, deposits, then quits... that is cash in the bank.
 
Nighthawk said:
Just like that Marco said they are aiming to "decrease the amount of non-looters" and was then quoted as saying that they would remove ALL non-looters :D
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Marco actually did say he was trying to end no-looters. I think it was in the thread that announced tier system was being developed. After that we started getting blazar fragments in what many believe would be otherwise no-looting mobs, along with regular no-looting mobs and then he rectified himself saying ending no-looters was not possible anymore (or the balancing manager said that in that interview with Hanne, I don't remember exactly, I just know somebody rectified that statement later).
 
I believe the original quote was something like "Today we have taken steps to remove no-looters"
 
Wolverine Queen said:
I believe the original quote was something like "Today we have taken steps to remove no-looters"
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At which point people believed it would have a tt value.

There's also the quote about enhancers working like ammo, which they do to a point i.e. stackable, but no mention of random decay.

jod said:
Sunab Naverith:
Will enhancers be UL?
MARCO:The enhancer chips work more like energy cell stacks.(similar to ammo)
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so I wouldn't take any statement as 100% of the information.
 
kosmos said:
I have ran a rl business I never wanted to run my customers away why would Mindark want to?
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They don't have to want. It happens by power of facts. Simulating an economic organism I'd think is a challenging task.

Also, MA needs money. When they want to secure more than average they can use exclusively one tool: make depositors lose. In what proportion is a last resort action and in what proportion is greed & economic blindness is up to debate and different stages can be identified along the years.

Recently EU did became a civilised product with the Gateway being the most notable step into the right direction and I'd expect that a higher value for the money (as in conditions ensured by MA, from visible stats on FAPs to a genuine interface of learning the game) will in turn increase the retention rate and hopefully a higher population (which is needed way more in a RCE than in random hobby-grinder) will ease the pressure on depositors, calculated individually.

So I honestly don't care how EU's retention rate is compared to Final Fantasy 540. I care wether or not EU's retention rate is high enough to infuse the crafting market with demand for more than apisvrxoa104oa105p5a. And for the moment I think that we have yet to grow a shitload to get into the shape of a viable economy (one which to need the least intervention from MA into simulating economic reactions, e.g. let's introduce vehicles yay belkar will grow in price for 5 months and we'll see what else we'll introduce in autumn when ores will get back again @110%).
 
Huskie said:
Marco actually did say he was trying to end no-looters. I think it was in the thread that announced tier system was being developed. After that we started getting blazar fragments in what many believe would be otherwise no-looting mobs, along with regular no-looting mobs and then he rectified himself saying ending no-looters was not possible anymore (or the balancing manager said that in that interview with Hanne, I don't remember exactly, I just know somebody rectified that statement later).
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Marco has actually said that MA told him that there are fewer no-looters now...
 
Nighthawk said:
Marco has actually said that MA told him that there are fewer no-looters now...
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You missed his first statement then where he said he's working (or "taking the first steps", I don't remember it word for word) to remove no-looters.

And no, I'm not gonna waste time searching it just to prove a point, you can search it yourself.
 
Huskie said:
You missed his first statement then where he said he's working (or "taking the first steps", I don't remember it word for word) to remove no-looters.

And no, I'm not gonna waste time searching it just to prove a point, you can search it yourself.
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I never asked for you to find and post it. I just know that Marco said recently that he has been told by MA that there are fewer no looters.

Here:
Marco|FPC said:
Well, the frequency of no loots is reduced compared to six months ago. MA has the ambition to reduce it a lot more and with the addition of fragments and similar very-low-TT-value items there are way to balance the economy while giving stuff in loots. So steps has already been taken and will continue to be taken in the future.
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Huskie said:
And no, I'm not gonna waste time searching it just to prove a point, you can search it yourself.
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here ya go

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/entropia-universe-news/170598-minute-marco.html

Skam said:
Marco also reveals that the voting booths will be reintroduced. The loot system will also get a little, but maybe very welcomed, change.

- The number of No Loot situations will be reduced drastically and maybe get removed completely. It is on the to-do plan, and it will be realized quite soon. With it comes a whole new concept, a new layer to the economy.
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Nighthawk said:
I never asked for you to find and post it. I just know that Marco said recently that he has been told by MA that there are fewer no looters.

Here:
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It all depends on what people define as loot. If your loot window has a tt value or if it opens with a 0 tt loot. Increasing the number of no looters just by dumping large amounts of 0 tt loot is a bit of a cheat.
 
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BenCoyote said:
...In the end, those who do quit really aren't real gamers in the sense.. A real gamer is someone who is willing to pace themselves, to learn how to budget, and importantly, know when to stop, or look for some new opportunity to come along....
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Dont know whats wrong with you. In another post again you were accusing the players for MA's shit...
For a moment lets agree with your ''real gamer'' theories...
If all of the EU players follow your advice and become real gamers like you, who is gonna pay the bill at the end of the day? Can we all be profitable in this game?

BenCoyote said:
...Then there's the newcomers. A lot of turnover happens here because of one thing, and that thing is in fact, and relates to the previous comment, especially the "Greed is good" part.
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Let a newcomer come sweat 10 hours...
Try another 10 hours to sell his sweat...
And waste his 4 peds he earned... in 10 minutes in hunting....
And then try another 3 hours to sell his pixie face mask he looted with no results...
What do you think about this person? Is he gonna stay or leave?
He may deposit you may say...I agree!
But then its not a free game anymore like MA advertised....
So where the ''Greed is good'' part is coming from?
From a new player that came to try a '' NO free'' game or MA that is advertising it as ''free''?

To conclude...
Why do you think people start this game?
Is it because of its game play (which doesn't exist)?
Is it because of its realism (Aim mob-MISS, Aim air-Critical Hit)
Is it because of its advanced GFX engine (cars run through trees & people)?
Is it because of its SL-ism (3 hours to check items in a mall)?
Is it because of its services (1 month to withdraw money, Support sucks)
Is it because it has a solid plan (China, Brazil, Banks, RT (Epic Fails))
Is it because it is Free (Bollocks)?
Is it because of some people attitude (''If you dont like why you play'')?

Sadly none of the above.. Its because they heard about a free game that people earn thousands of dollars. And MA instead of try to emphasise or improve any of the points i mention above, they do the opposite.
They continue that ATH-Big Sale-Expansion tactic to bring new players...Without forgetting to tax them when they have problems...
This is ''Greed is good'' policy at its best...
And this is where newcomers learn it from...

Sil$
 
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JoseMTacoral said:
Very few of them have continued playing since July 2007 and very few make it through the first year as frequent players.
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If you take away the folks who just can't wrap their head around the concept of an RCE, I think EU does just fine...

every game has a "mid level plateau", it just depends how motivated people are to plug past it...

I've played since 2007 as well...

although i'm used to seeing folks come and go, there are about 30 people in my soc who I've known for over a year, and 15 who I've known for 2 years or more.

can't really compare it to other game's really, as this is the only game i've played where it really matters who you team with.
 
Entropia Universe is a virtual reality which is very niche specific.

Entropia is radically different in comparison to other entertainment outlets. Not only are the fundamental game mechanics different to a large majority of games on the market, but the fact that Entropia's economy is real world currency based, is a dramatic contrast to other games.

It comes to no surprise then, that Entropia is not exactly designed for the average gamer. The intense time and financial investment required in order to achieve the mainstream perception of entertainment on a regular basis often detracts potential players.

Does this mean then, that Entropia is failing to satisfy to its user base, then? No (Well, not in this context). Quite a contrast, it's catering towards its specific demographic. At Entropia's core, there is the underlying fact that it is a cash-based economy, and this will detract or attract players dependent on their play style.
 
Leona said:
"Free to download" and "No monthly subscription fee" is what i did read 5 years ago on the website before i started, and thats whats still written there.

Ahh, and also there was one sentence something like "make a living by hunting, mining..." somewhere. I had a good laugh once i realized some people understood that as "make a real life living". :laugh:

Of course i assumed "in game living". I was rather surprised to discover some people are actually making a real life living.

...The one adversing poster with "Tired of killing monsters without getting payd..." Well, i thought it wasn't such a good idea. However, from my view it is not so untrue either.
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One of the common resources of the advertising and marketing is saying something in a manner that whom receives the message understand the other, favorable to the product or service. However, this practice has its costs: the client will eventually feel dissatisfied and leave.

I think what we need is that Mindark / FPC keep them long enough rookies enough to engage them with the game and with his new friends. So sooner or later they will be transformed into depositing players. And the larger the percentage of players to deposit, the better we will be the RCE.

I know there are players who achieve success and survive long time without depositing a single ped, I am happy for them and I feel a healthy envy for their success but with out a significant amount of regular depositing players, even of small amounts of peds, this game has no future.
 
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Nighthawk said:
Just like that Marco said they are aiming to "decrease the amount of non-looters" and was then quoted as saying that they would remove ALL non-looters :D
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Maybe start a thread: "What Marco actually said...". ,-)
 
EU is not a game that suits everyone - nor is ANY game.
Regardless of what MA does, there will always be reasons players leave.

In my soc, we have some absent atm due to new babies, overseas travel, computer malfunction, moving house, military service, study or work/financial/partner issues.
Its RL, it happens.

Some wander off to play other games.

But many, many of them return.

Some of my soc guys, I've known since I started, nearly 4 years ago. There must be about a dozen of us that have known each other more than 3 years.
Not all of them play EVERY day.

Quite a few of us do tho :)

Personally, I havent missed a day since Christmas 2006 (the family have since got used to me taking the laptop along :laugh: )

That being said - I would expect there to be many who start that dont last a month. I've mentored quite a few new players - only 4 have graduated (5 including Sol).
I was impressed by FPC's new Gateway area. I'd like to see formal mentoring in some capacity return tho, because I think its part of the personal interaction that makes EU special.

Those with the patience and perseverence to stay may find it rewarding in ways other than just PED. :grouphug:
 
Miles said:
The question I ask in these threads is always the same - how long have you played in EU? How long have you played any other game?

:beerchug:

Miles
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CS - Since April 1997 (pre-beta) until today. Initially playing anywhere from 1-24 hours a day first 6-7 years and very limited for last 3-4 years.
DoTA - Since 2004 or 2005 until about 4-5 months ago when LoL took my (and every other dota player's) attention.
D2 - Only about 2 years but there were many things happening in gaming at that time...
Q2 - About 3 years, then...
Q3 - From release until I stopped playing CS competitively (can't remember exactly when that was). This was my 'reactions' practice game. RA FTW!

I guess my point is that almost every "gamer"* I know personally has 1 (or more) games that they play for extended periods of time. I don't know many PC gamers who jump titles, I do know a lot of console gamers like that but console games tend to be shorter play through than PC games until the relatively recent surge in online PVP capabilities within the console market.

WoW for example... I can say for certain that I know of at least 50 personal friends/colleagues (from all demographics) who maintain a subscription to the service and have done for years. I am actually surprised because I myself couldn't sustain interest for very long in comparison lol....
I've never met one "gamer"* (irl) who'd known about EU prior to me bringing it up had I done so, by the way.


*by 'gamer' I mean someone who would play games around 10+ hours/week.



*edit*
Come to think of it, I do play a tonne of other games on the side for a short while and then forget about them, so in comparison - when considering volume of games - I guess that could bring the average game time down a lot... hmm... words can be deceiving.
 
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Marco|FPC said:
Maybe start a thread: "What Marco actually said...". ,-)
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dont we already have that ... oh yeah....

marco.jpg


although it could be nice to have a tidy list with links to the post but ... whos got the time to do that for all the things you have said that get the masses here going crazy over "well marco said!...."
 
Everybody return playing. Speaking here don't bring fun !

I'm playing since a long time. Eu is just different than other MMOs. Its a sort of next gen mmo who involve more human and subtle feelings.

How can I say that ?? Lets say that the RCE is a good thing when u have money to spend. Most of us like spending money :) So when u come online, depo, buy what u wanna buy, u happy. But, like irl, u can give up. There is many reasons of a give up :

# Not enough money to spend because other entertainments irl (like me, I do sniping > a pack of bullet is 50 €, I do paragliding > The set is up to 3500 € ...). Many dudes need to define priority like me, at many scales.

# Not enough skilled or geared to kill the mob u want > frustration.

# Just bored cause ur a bipolar nerd.

# Playing in a noob way drive u to big lose.

EU is a human farm before all.
 
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Leona said:
Right. Not only did he not say that, he said quite the opposite:



Nonetheless i have seen the misquote "Marco said MA aims for 6 month player retention" dozens of times. And so gets pretty much everything misquoted he ever said here on the forum. Someone twists it around and 100 other repeats it.

It is really no surprise communication with us is limited.
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The quote you are posting is real but there was a quote "before" that which at some point said that MA was expecting the average player to be gone after 6 months. If I have time to look for it I will search the forum but I also remember this quote...

I understand that MA realised this was a stupid comment and that this might not be expressed openly anymore but it has been said. It's not just a rumour...

Marco, if you remember what you actually said... feel free to complete my statements :D
 
Igorl said:
Agreed upon this... because veteran players pay much more.

I.
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Forgot to say - ofcourse(!) subscription based games want people to stay longer. Veterans inspire others into attaining that status also, encouraging others to continue playing for longer. Win/Win.
Competition - it's in our nature.
:wise:
 
I have been playing for approx 2.5yrs which is the longest I have ever played 1 game for. I was intially attracted to the game by the chance to make money after reading a small article in a magazine. I soon realised that the chances of me making a profit would be slim, but I am still here. I have progressed my skills to a level where I can now hunt reasonable sized mobs which was my first goal.
Now I have decided to try and be a bit more eco in my hunting activities by spending more time in swunt teams and helping where I can any new players. The goal being to try and reduce the amount I deposit each month to a more sustainable level for the long term.
What keeps me playing now is the interaction with others and the chance to meet new friends from all over the world. currently based on Rocktropia I have found that the community is much more open than calypso and for me more enjoyable.

Of course I still want that uber HOF/ATH :) but just like playing the lottery in RL the chances of that are slim to none existent.

But nevermind because I still get to log back on tonight:wtg:#

Just my 2pecs
Hawk.
 
Marco|FPC said:
Maybe start a thread: "What Marco actually said...". ,-)
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The problem is not to find what Marco wrote (see forum search)... the problem is what the hidden meanings of his posts are. :D
 
Well I used to be a fairly active part of the community a few years ago and then recently came back and by recently I mean I logged in yesterday. So I think I can help a bit with this thread.

What attracted me to EU:

When I was new to the game, and it was still PE, I loved everything about it. It was a completely different MMO to anything I've ever played. I was able to have fun only depositing $10 every month or two. I didn't really hunt all that much and spent most of my time just hanging out with friends. I loved the fact that I had the possibility to make some money, even if the chance was small.

What made me leave:

A lot of my friends from when I was a new player began leaving and the people I was left with were very cynical. They were those that only talked about the bad parts of the game and believed all the conspiracy theories, and because I was with them I did too. I was constantly thinking about people that have been screwed by scammers, how there's evidence that some ubers may be cheating and MA just lets it slide, that MA staff is playing the game, and taking a look at how much money I was losing. When you only focus on the bad, eventually the game just stops being enjoyable. I left but I used to take breaks for a few months now and then. The reason I never came back is because I didn't have a computer that could handle it until just a few weeks ago when I got my new one.

What brought me back:

Well of course for one thing it's the fact that I have a computer that can run the game now. Mostly though it was remembering all the fun I've had playing EU and that I still haven't found an MMO that can compare.
 
History Repeats Itself

This entire thread is very similar to the one here: https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...mindark-aiming-high-player-retention-not.html

Many of the issues including people claiming that Marco said something he didn't, already have been discussed in the above thread. I suggest reading the above said thread.

This forum sometimes is like a merry-go-round. Some people on this forum seem to be unable to bury the hatchet in terms of certain issues that've been discussed many times over.
 
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