Perception Theory

DoubleWolf said:

A theory with no data to back it up is called a Hypothesis.

Hypotheses are ideas that are awaiting data. You get this data by performing experiments that will either support or deny your hypothesis.

So again, what are the experiments that need to be performed to test the perception skill gain hypothesis? The burden of proof is on the believers...

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Again, I do not care if you believe or not. I am not trying to prove anything to anyone. There is no burden on me.

Thanks for the 7th grade lesson on hypotheses though. I found it truly rivoting. However, I believe that we are talking theories now as the people who believe in perception have observed the data that has proved to them that the effects of perception are real. Whilst they have obviously perpetrated that knowledge onto the do-not-believers in a less than satisfactory manner, we have certainly moved beyond the hypotesis segment of this conversation.

Mr Trayles said:

Thanks for the 7th grade lesson on hypotheses though. I found it truly rivoting. However, I believe that we are talking theories now as the people who believe in perception have observed the data that has proved to them that the effects of perception are real. Whilst they have obviously perpetrated that knowledge onto the do-not-believers in a less than satisfactory manner, we have certainly moved beyond the hypotesis segment of this conversation.

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Nope, back to 7th grade.

Actually it is not even a hypothesis, no one formulated a explanation of what can be observed about the connection between skill gains and loot and provided means to test it. By your definition any religion would be a hypothesis or theory too.

Mr Trayles said:

Whilst they have obviously perpetrated that knowledge onto the do-not-believers in a less than satisfactory manner, we have certainly moved beyond the hypotesis segment of this conversation.

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actually, no, we are not beyond the hypothesis part of the scientific process, its not even got that far. we generously call it a "theory" as after all its just a game and we're using every day, non-scientific meaning of the term. in the scientifc context there needs to be a proposal to explain the observed phenonemon, just to get to hypothesis, then we need predictions and evidence to demonstrate this is accurate. in perc theory, we cannot even agree that the phenonemon exists!

there is certainly no formal description of the perc "theory" or predictable results, other than hearsay that "a perc gain leads to a good loot nearby". maybe. or its a mining resource. i can refute this with hundreds of examples of no good loot after perc gains, therefore the theory as stated is false. the big bang theory might well be wrong, but the theory is the best current working model, it doesnt exist because no-one disproved it, it exists because its shown to fit with observable data and can be falsified yet has not yet been so. if you believe formal scientific theories can be neither proven or unproven, then i suggest you review your notes from 7th grade class.

I'll just wait until you all catch up, then.

great thing with perc is, that you really can explain everything:

when perc correlates with big loot = perc is proven
when perc comes but big loot doesn't = player did something wrong e.g. did not drop a probe when he had to, perc still proven
when perc doesn't come but big loot does = the game doesn't show every fat loot with skills, would be easy to exploit, perc still proven



(works for any other skill as well)

Might it be perc gains are BOTH a result of counter in the background (decay, no. of uses, whatever etc.) but in between such 'fixed' rate of gain, there are out of the ordinary instances which is actually related to loot? It would be easy to design an experiment to 'test' but would of course requires tons of data collection (screenshots etc) to make it a validated test.

Faith

StVier said:

Might it be perc gains are BOTH a result of counter in the background (decay, no. of uses, whatever etc.) but in between such 'fixed' rate of gain, there are out of the ordinary instances which is actually related to loot? It would be easy to design an experiment to 'test' but would of course requires tons of data collection (screenshots etc) to make it a validated test.

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Really?

"It's a floor wax and a desert topping!"

This is so clearly a discussion of faith. Those of us disposed to logic and reason in our analysis of the subject can bang our heads against the wall all day, but we'll break them open before we change the minds of the faithful.

I've got Legions system to test, but it is really just a collection of hunches and vague predictions such that actual testing is not really possible. Breaking out a single component might testable. In fact, it would likely disprove his theory if only the predictions were specific enough. I'll give that a go anyway when I'm hunting again (I'm mining at this time.)

Look, if your faith makes you happy, if it makes EU a better place for you, believe away. I engage in plenty of superstitious behavior myself. It's fun. I just don't take the fateful step of believing it.

I'm not trying to change the minds of the faithful, I am questioning those who claim to have cracked the system, or know what things mean, in order to expose their beliefs for what they are, tenets of faith.



Miles

well, got a perc gain last night again while hunting. Mob spawned in the radar and a "global wave" hit at same time according to chat. Last time I got a perc gain the same thing happened a few weeks back... So it might possibly, maybe mean that mob spawns are in the radar and/or that the right time is here, but not necessarily the right place. No idea how/if it has any impact on mining. More then likely not... actually this is no proof of anything. It's just proof that yes, you can get perc gains even if you hunt puny mobs.

Interesting, it could just be dice rolls though, what is the % chance of getting a crit on a mob ?