My last deposit

So you break even or profit but lose because of repairs and low markup..?

Is that some high level math I don't understand?

PROFIT=LOOT*(MARKUP)-REPAIRS

But really.. you have to factor in the auction fee's too. it gets a bit more complicated also when you have limited weapons that you can't repair.. so you just have to wing it in your head.. and at the end of the day you just kinda look at your PED card.. scratch your head and say.. i think its a bigger number then it was before.. but what the hell do i know?

I think legion is onto something this time.
 
So many contradictions.. so many half truths..so many............Load 'a bollox.... NEXT ! :laugh:
 
He had a nice loot some mins ago... ;) Gz! :)

Yea, we gonna hear that for the next years now how he predicted it but kinda forgot to tell us in advance. :)
 
Legion you have always been one of my top 10 favorite posters since the day i started on Entropia Pioneers Forum 7 years ago. I'd hate to see you leave.

As for loot theroies and so called proof. I don't think you need proof to give out a theorie. if you gave proof it wouldn't be a theorie it be a fact.

So chill out people everyone's entitled to they're own theories.

I have my theories as to how loot works. Does that mean i can predict loot no. can i prove it. not really. Have i done well in entropia. I think so. Did i have to work hard in skilling up and grinding....nope. Just learned how to play the odds. Havn't even gotten a hunting hof yet.
 
Just wanted to throw out a little "what if" out here.
What if, and i know it sounds extremely crazy, it really is random!?

How's that for a twist! :wtg:

All assumptions about the loots that matched certain patterns may very well be coincidences!

And the argument about MAs need to "control" the loot also comes from nowhere. Example: If i was the dealer on 100 BlackJack tables i wouldnt feel a need to rig the decks to be a sure winner.. Id let chance do its work and let all the little legions in my casino keep gambling away thier money while looking for that "hidden" pattern.

The chance works in mysterious ways and i guess these claims of theories would grow a little stronger even in my head if, for example, Stormer was the one claiming to cracked the system, but until you starting to get multiple ATHs i'm staying sceptical. :)

I wish you the best of luck with your deposit and hope you can manage to get at least one more uber out of that depo ;)
 
GL Legion, hang in there padwan :D
 
Always fun / interesting to read posts written by Legion i think :)
 
Just wanted to throw out a little "what if" out here.
What if, and i know it sounds extremely crazy, it really is random!?

How's that for a twist! :wtg:

All assumptions about the loots that matched certain patterns may very well be coincidences!

And the argument about MAs need to "control" the loot also comes from nowhere. Example: If i was the dealer on 100 BlackJack tables i wouldnt feel a need to rig the decks to be a sure winner.. Id let chance do its work and let all the little legions in my casino keep gambling away thier money while looking for that "hidden" pattern.

The chance works in mysterious ways and i guess these claims of theories would grow a little stronger even in my head if, for example, Stormer was the one claiming to cracked the system, but until you starting to get multiple ATHs i'm staying sceptical. :)

I wish you the best of luck with your deposit and hope you can manage to get at least one more uber out of that depo ;)

random = gambling in sweden. and if ma does gambling ma would be busted by the government, it's as simple as that. :)
 
random = gambling in sweden. and if ma does gambling ma would be busted by the government, it's as simple as that. :)

Well I'm surprised that the governement actually consider this to be so skillbased that they allow it. Been some debate about that tho..

Anyway my crazy theory is that the skillfactor comes from the choices you make in game. The choices in the way how could you can adapt to the market and get the most loot including MU out of your PEDs spent by using the right equipment with the right skills at the right mobs. Not your choices in the way how good you can follow some very far-fetched, seemingly random "timer and area-theory".

It's all so obvious.:yup:
 
Well I'm surprised that the governement actually consider this to be so skillbased that they allow it. Been some debate about that tho..

Anyway my crazy theory is that the skillfactor comes from the choices you make in game. The choices in the way how could you can adapt to the market and get the most loot including MU out of your PEDs spent by using the right equipment with the right skills at the right mobs. Not your choices in the way how good you can follow some very far-fetched, seemingly random "timer and area-theory".

It's all so obvious.:yup:
The law says there can't be randomness, and it even says it can't give the impression of being
random, if it does, it can be classified as gambling. Soo many do see EU as random so it's all up
to who we ask imo... ;) But their judgement are probably due to lack of knowledge about the system... ;)

When authorities did check in to EU to look if they should classify it as gambling,
something must have balanced it over to non-gambling. The judgement is about the randomness
aspect, but also gambling vs competition. Nothing forces it to be skillbased thou'.

I guess the average player can't "see" this, so it might very well be a controlled system in
the background, it's just a question about finding this system... ;)

One thing thou', that I wonder of. How often can MA tweak and do changes before the
impression of EU becomes as it has randomness? If we do find out how the system works,
and they do changes everytime some do this, and if it happens too often, there is no way
to use EU without the impression of randomness, imo.
But I also do think that the system can be found, without need of changes. If more people
knows how it works, and get more efficient, less chance to get break evens or profits,
from system itself... Imo there is no way we can get out more than we put in to lootsystem,
so if a lot less of people losing big, the chance to profit from system itself will be slimmer.
 
Well I'm surprised that the governement actually consider this to be so skillbased that they allow it. Been some debate about that tho..

well, the agency involved has answered why in responce to a enquiry, from ironically Legion. yet he seems to ignore his own information and persists with the idea that skills are the important factor to discount randomness.
 
The law says there can't be randomness, and it even says it can't give the impression of being
random, if it does, it can be classified as gambling. Soo many do see EU as random so it's all up
to who we ask imo... ;) But their judgement are probably due to lack of knowledge about the system... ;)

When authorities did check in to EU to look if they should classify it as gambling,
something must have balanced it over to non-gambling. The judgement is about the randomness
aspect, but also gambling vs competition. Nothing forces it to be skillbased thou'.

I guess the average player can't "see" this, so it might very well be a controlled system in
the background, it's just a question about finding this system... ;)

One thing thou', that I wonder of. How often can MA tweak and do changes before the
impression of EU becomes as it has randomness? If we do find out how the system works,
and they do changes everytime some do this, and if it happens too often, there is no way
to use EU without the impression of randomness, imo.
But I also do think that the system can be found, without need of changes. If more people
knows how it works, and get more efficient, less chance to get break evens or profits,
from system itself... Imo there is no way we can get out more than we put in to lootsystem,
so if a lot less of people losing big, the chance to profit from system itself will be slimmer.

First off. Wether the system is random or not we can of course never know. BUT, in the analysis of the game that ended up in the classification of it not beeing gambling couldn't have been based on wether they use a random "loot-algorithm" or not. That question must have been about how you can affect the outcome of your spent PEDs by decisions: Is this game a big slotmachine with one button or can you actually make good decisions and maybe even have an expected return over 100%?

The question is then about what these decisions are. For example, There has been enough analysis of the game to safely say that you can expect a better outcome hutning with a Mod Merc than a Marber bravo.

Im sure those decisions, together with knowledge about what mobs have CHANCE to loot diffrent things with high MU etc, is what made this game get the classification of not beeing gambling.

So... Does the fact that it's not considered gambling outrule the possibility of the lootsystem beeing based random factors. In my opinion, a big NO!

And then again, a rigged system with the motivation that "it has to be rigged, cos its not gambling" formed up by some strange timer (or whatever) is so far-fetched it just brings me to confusion how supposedly sane people actually belive that.

This might not been the perfect reply to your post, but a little to legions earlier post to. I dont think it does need to be avatar-skillbased at all either, but skill in the sense of how you play the game yes! :)
 
First off. Wether the system is random or not we can of course never know. BUT, in the analysis of the game that ended up in the classification of it not beeing gambling couldn't have been based on wether they use a random "loot-algorithm" or not. That question must have been about how you can affect the outcome of your spent PEDs by decisions: Is this game a big slotmachine with one button or can you actually make good decisions and maybe even have an expected return over 100%?

The question is then about what these decisions are. For example, There has been enough analysis of the game to safely say that you can expect a better outcome hutning with a Mod Merc than a Marber bravo.

Im sure those decisions, together with knowledge about what mobs have CHANCE to loot diffrent things with high MU etc, is what made this game get the classification of not beeing gambling.

So... Does the fact that it's not considered gambling outrule the possibility of the lootsystem beeing based random factors. In my opinion, a big NO!

And then again, a rigged system with the motivation that "it has to be rigged, cos its not gambling" formed up by some strange timer (or whatever) is so far-fetched it just brings me to confusion how supposedly sane people actually belive that.

This might not been the perfect reply to your post, but a little to legions earlier post to. I dont think it does need to be avatar-skillbased at all either, but skill in the sense of how you play the game yes! :)
Yeah, they look at the system in general when they do their final classification, so it could in fact be
a less amount of randomness in it, as long as it follows these two things (among more rules):
With the lottery referred to in this Act an activity where one or more participants, with or without
intervention, can get a profit at a higher value than each of the other participants may have.
and
In determining whether an activity is a lottery shall be of the business the general nature and not
solely to a greater or lesser degree of chance inherent in the individual case.
(Lottery and gambling is classified as same thing in sweden.)

And you do see that your comment
The question is then about what these decisions are. For example, There has been enough analysis
of the game to safely say that you can expect a better outcome hutning with a Mod Merc than
a Marber bravo.
only can work with a controlled system? It isn't the decision that gonna create a better outcome
with MM vs the Marber Bravo, it's the underlying gamemechanism that creates the outcome.
If it had been based on randomness either of two could work... ;)

EDIT: About timer. If you were here in 2003-2004, you should remember how "easy" it
could be to see that timer. ;)Easy to see where and on what, impossible to see to whom. :)
 
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And you do see that your comment
The question is then about what these decisions are. For example, There has been enough analysis
of the game to safely say that you can expect a better outcome hutning with a Mod Merc than
a Marber bravo.
only can work with a controlled system? It isn't the decision that gonna create a better outcome
with MM vs the Marber Bravo, it's the underlying gamemechanism that creates the outcome.
If it had been based on randomness either of two could work... ;)

Yeah, you know what i mean. The reason the probable outcome is better with mod merc is that more mobs are looted at the same cost. Not because the modmerc enhances the loot. The "nature laws" of the game MA plays with pretty open cards (except for example the enhancer breaking), it's the part about what happens in the moment the system pays back we are talking about here. Im just saying the nature laws could very well be the reason this game is not classed as gambling and not because there is a non random loot-mechanism.:cool:

Yeah i wish i was here to see how it worked back in the days with that timer. I would have lost alot of trust in this game if something like that was revealed.
 
Yeah, you know what i mean. The reason the probable outcome is better with mod merc is that more mobs are looted at the same cost. Not because the modmerc enhances the loot. The "nature laws" of the game MA plays with pretty open cards (except for example the enhancer breaking), it's the part about what happens in the moment the system pays back we are talking about here. Im just saying the nature laws could very well be the reason this game is not classed as gambling and not because there is a non random loot-mechanism.:cool:

Yeah i wish i was here to see how it worked back in the days with that timer. I would have lost alot of trust in this game if something like that was revealed.
Well, I guess we have a different p.o.v how things work. ;)
Imo we interact with the system, creating a build up in values, that is payed out by a wave-like triggering.
With too few interactions and/or too unefficient value in build up, you get no loot.
With right amount of interactions and/or efficient value in build up, you get loot.

A example to this: If I hunt Feffs with a certain combination of weapon and amp, and only shoot
a certain maturity and up, I never get a no loot. Haven't got a no loot on these since april last
year, and I guess it worked earlier too, just that in april last year I began to notice the lack of no loot.
If I go down in matúrity, I begin to get no loot occasionly. If I change amp, but still have same total
maxdamage, I also get no loot occasionly.

Another example of interactions. If I go for a small mob I can take down before it hits me, the
outcome is a bit different than if I run up and tank the mob while killing it. Exact same equipment,
exact same type of mob, but not exact same amount and types of interaction. ;)

Yet another example. Same weapon, same mob, different amps but same total damage.
I get different ROI with the two setups, but also different stuff in loot.

I have more examples, but I think haven't done enough of runs to say that I see patterns
in those. The feff-runs aren't extreme in amount either, but enough to see the pattern.
Nr 2 and 3 have been done for years so easier there.

These patterns can still just be circumstances, so I can't say "this is THE way it works"
but after a LOT of runs over the years, it must be quite freaky circumstances if they
are the reasons for outcome. ;)

So, imo, killing a mob is just a question about decreasing a value down to 0 related to
a object, when we also increase a value that is one part for the payback, with help
of interactions.
When using same item in those interactions, the cost per interaction is the same,
but reduction in the value on the object can be different, it can even be a value
of zero (= MISS).

So, just my observations and my thoughts, not saying it MUST working like this... ;)
 
I more or less break even or profit on almost every hunt, spent quite a bit on repairs though so dont have the 3.5k
Markup on loot is what makes me slowly dribble down in peds though. blp amps are to darn expensive :p (can you miners start using more depth so the markup on the ores go down please!!! :tongue2:)

And i still do the studies of the icons and such and it works :) Problem is i havent figured out what every single one does yet, the most important ones i know sort of what they mean but not how many degrees to turn. For example one could mean turn left and or turn left and behind you but i dont know in what amount of degrees i should turn.

Yes your right the game creators are crackpot genius's and spent thousands of dollars on creating a system out of the icons guiding every player who figures it out to untold riches. :laugh: If you spent this much effort on the real reasons people are able to profit maybe you wouldnt have to keep depositing. I've been watching you deposit for years and your theories are nothing more than amusing to people who do withdraw. Good luck with the timers your currently heading in the total opposite direction on that one. I hope you do stay though to pump more peds into the economy and solid entertainment.
 
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