Mayhem Post Mortem

I was about to post something about Mayhem ending and all that, but you know, it was New Year's Eve. And suddenly it was New Year's Day, lead cap, light allergy, New Year's Concert from Vienna... and then it was Sunday and I had forgot everything about Mayhem and just enjoyed a day of my own... the point is that I didn't post then, so I'll post now. And I'll start with some observations of my own.

The Good: There are two things that I particularly liked about this year's (technically last year's, but you know what I mean) Mayhem. First, the kill trigger in the mission system reverted last year's loot=kill points debacle, and you could see your own kill points. Second, I think that the communication improved a lot (although that's really for you to judge, not me).

The Bad: There were a few systems we didn't have, for instance a better timer, so the timer had to be done the old fashioned way. I don't like it anymore than you do: better timer support would simplify for us getting the scores out as well, and it would put an end to disqualification for running out of time.

The Ugly: The bug. There's no point in hiding it: that was downright ugly, caused a dramatic ride for me from basically out of nowhere back to civilization, and had us sweaty and worried until we could fix it. Well, I deserve it. Even if the bug was infinitesimally small (one number wrong!), if I fuck things up, I should be sweaty and worried at least.

All in all, I think that Mayhem 2010 was an overall improvement from 2009's, even counting the crisis.

So what happens now? Well, for starters we're going to pull out the data from the database and compile the lists (remember, DO NOT DROP THE MISSION!!!). Then we'll post the lists and hand out prizes. And then I'll take a short vacation.

After that, and in between developing everything else, we'll continue to improve Mayhem. Now we have a template for the Mayhem Mission, so now it will be a lot easier to make a new one next year.

I think that the mission system is the most practical way of doing it, since almost every other way would have to be done by the coders at MindArk, and as I've said before, they're reluctant to code something specifically for one partner and one event. Using the mission system means that it's not specifically for one partner and one event, but a tool for all partners to use. Adding better timer support is one such way: it would not only improve Mayhem, but also would improve the two timed missions we have (Missing Piece and Phoenix Mining Challenge) and make further timed missions possible and practical. I bet that the other planet partners are screaming for improved timer features for reasons of their own.

I would like to thank the small team here at FPC that were here between Christmas and New Year's, and the few supporting guys at MindArk that also were here. They helped a lot fixing the bug and testing and launching the fix. And I would like to thank you for participating and for your patience with us.

Thank you all!

Since we're at Mayhem Post Mortem chapter, I'll add some feed-back from my side regarding Category 3 - Eviscerator:

This year MM cat3 was a total mess.

I don't understand how could FPC keep a spawn of 10 mobs all giving 4-5 points, spawning instantly on an area less then a radar width and without any vegetation around?

Whoever controlled that spawn will win this year event on CAT3, considering that all spawns added specially for MM had:
- a mixture of mobs from gen 1-10 mixed with other non event mobs(faucevix, exa, combibo, molisk etc.)
- even with high respawn rate, you still had to run around to find mobs and kill them.
- there was a lot of vegetation around or other terrain that prevented tagging mobs.

I was really keen on participating this year on Cat3 but when I saw what an unfair advantage FPC left in game with that 10 mob spawn at volcano I decided to quit. There was no way to secure that spawn unless I interfere to the game play of other teams hunting there which could lead me and my support team to a temporary ban according to EULA.

I found it indeed an improvement over last year on some of the more serious points:
- Communication (You set an excellent example. Unfortunately for your coworkers we will measure their communication against yours)
- Change from looter to most damage.

There is still a lot of room for more improvement.

I think it would be good that after your vacation there is an open discussion with the community on the subject of MM.

There are some people who would like it to be a solo hunter event and some people like it just as it is a team event (although with a solo winner). It might be an idea to split MM in a team and a solo event.

A timer would be absolutely a great and needed improvement.

Also it might be useful to discuss what is acceptable behavior and what is unacceptable.
Seeing as things as using other people their team names, PKing, mob training and hiding of mobs were common practices in this MM. Some people frowned upon this and others found it within the rules.

I tried before MM to make a discussion thread with some idea's:
https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...961-Scenario-suggestion-for-Merry-Mayhem-2010

I think the community would happily participate in a discussion, although it will be impossible to make every one fully happy.

Cheers
Siam

sitram said:

Since we're at Mayhem Post Mortem chapter, I'll add some feed-back from my side regarding Category 3 - Eviscerator:

This year MM cat3 was a total mess.

I don't understand how could FPC keep a spawn of 10 mobs all giving 4-5 points, spawning instantly on an area less then a radar width and without any vegetation around?

Whoever controlled that spawn will win this year event on CAT3, considering that all spawns added specially for MM had:
- a mixture of mobs from gen 1-10 mixed with other non event mobs(faucevix, exa, combibo, molisk etc.)
- even with high respawn rate, you still had to run around to find mobs and kill them.
- there was a lot of vegetation around or other terrain that prevented tagging mobs.

I was really keen on participating this year on Cat3 but when I saw what an unfair advantage FPC left in game with that 10 mob spawn at volcano I decided to quit. There was no way to secure that spawn unless I interfere to the game play of other teams hunting there which could lead me and my support team to a temporary ban according to EULA.

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100% Agree with that. No chance to hunt there as the spawn was controlled by some soc that started to steal ur mobs if u tried to hunt there. All other spawns where by far not as good as this one.

Pioneer|FPC said:

if I fuck things up, I should be sweaty and worried at least.

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Zardoz has spoken.



Ciobyna

i'd say Evis was the wrong choice for Cat3 in the first place. even with T-bird +5B above gen 6/7 becomes too Fappy for proper hunting.

as a general note, the spawns shouldnt be all matuities together, a mix of some low some high would allow for some stategic decisions (and better hunting for non-competitors )

AS an improvement to the time counter, I would like to suggest a penalty system for overtime, rather than complete disqualification. e.g. 100point penalty per minute or part thereof, with complete disqual @ 30min overtime, rather than the current system of immediate disqualification

As for people complaining about cat3, you do realise there were two other excellent spots, and the caldera was spawning at least 30% 1s+2s?

You did well with the fix that allowed us to choose whether or not to reset the points. It was a pleasant surprise.

Cheers,

-Sky

There were plenty of ideas how MM can be inproved in other threads, ofc times is a must, i'm still woried sick that i might have in some magical way pass the available time even tho i left myself about 20 min...

I'd like to bring one idea up front which i specially liked and i think it should be reconsidered (not mine idea, don't remeber whose). The idea included special MM drop, like coins or any other marker, dropped in ratio 1point=100, the items ofc wouldn't have value and cound not be traded (like pedcard?) it is to enforce soloing this event (except for fappers, taggers, suppliers). So when looting the items would be split among all shooters, and ofc for event mobs, shared loot would have to be on.

Interesting ... And gl to all the competitors that competed this year

I liked the good FPC communication. Was the best I've seen so far!

As for the event itself, I must say that I found the scipulors' spawns all very weak!
(not to mention the New Switz spawn where scips could even be found blocked on top of trees...).

All rest seemed fine, given the system limitations you mentioned.

I'd have to say that for next year's event there at the very least needs to be a visible time spent online counter or have it simply stop counting after you go over. Even better would be one that counts time from the first kill to fifteen minutes or so after the last kill allowing us to actually login. More categories for the lower profession levels and a no teaming rule would also be nice.

TCL987 said:

I'd have to say that for next year's event there at the very least needs to be a visible time spent online counter or have it simply stop counting after you go over. Even better would be one that counts time from the first kill to fifteen minutes or so after the last kill allowing us to actually login. More categories for the lower profession levels and a no teaming rule would also be nice.

Click to expand...

And a turkey sandwich.

Immortal said:

AS an improvement to the time counter, I would like to suggest a penalty system for overtime, rather than complete disqualification. e.g. 100point penalty per minute or part thereof, with complete disqual @ 30min overtime, rather than the current system of immediate disqualification

As for people complaining about cat3, you do realise there were two other excellent spots, and the caldera was spawning at least 30% 1s+2s?

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That's why UU and cK camped the volcano spawn

The Good: I had some fun
The Bad: Catagories for teamed vs non teaming.
The Ugly: Interuptions via vehicles trashing the game play/spawn adjustment.

The screw up, well that was fine at least you adjusted and fixed it whilst listening to the community with the capacities of a small team over the holiday period.
Cheers

Mayhem was deff improved...but alot more stuff to do. Gratz FPC for a good event!...more people in ...alot more dedication, cool prizes to fight for, teaming, socializing, tactics, brain crushing..etc...very nice ///alot better one then hardbringer shit...no ofence

Lorfat said:

As for the event itself, I must say that I found the scipulors' spawns all very weak!
(not to mention the New Switz spawn where scips could even be found blocked on top of trees...).

Click to expand...

I agree the scips spawns could have been more powerful.

I find mobs spawning on objects a bug. Seriously it is not that hard to do a collision check on the moment of spawning and move it a few meters to solve the collision.

Annoying was also the AI. Mobs run into a tree and get stuck behind it.

Cheers
Siam

While you are asking MA to add timer support to the mission system, please consider a change to allocate a percentage of points based on percentage of damage done. This wont eliminate support teams but would reward players for doing all the damage to a mob.

And when will MM have a category for single players?

langsuyar said:

And when will MM have a category for single players?

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many people make this mistake i think..no ofence. Actualy teaming and tactics..are the only way to beat a uber player. Think about it a litle. A team of noobs..is very powerfull if you can organize them..and in my opinion is the only way to fight against ubers. Alone?..well..man..if you think you can fight against a mm or a doa..and uber armour..even if they have low skills..for lower levels.......to fight alone against that?..your crazy man..no ofence again.

p.s. they are forces..like UU or AOW..which cant be beaten in any ways posible...theyr are old players..with imense experience in this game..and skills..and gears..and is extremly hard to beat them. Still..i'm know is hard..but is not imposible

It would be nice if a player would get 10% of the points if he did 10% of the kill, not only for the fairness in MM (as FPC wants it to be a SOLO event but can't provide that). It could also be implemented on the current iron/bronze quests.
You're new rule of most dmg gets the points makes that ppl do their quests solo & takes away a big part of social gaming part, something I feel is quite important.. Why don't you want me to take a nub under my wings & go shoot some daikiba's or argo's with them?

About spawns during MM, I was very dissapointed for the exact same reason ADI posted & I really wonder if ANYONE will be disqualified for their mobtrains etc, def couse some socs sended ppl out to mobtrain on spawns they weren't even hunting (just to slow down the competition)^^

About the bug, shit happends & atleast it got fixed.. muchos respect for that.

Communication was very good, MA can learn something from it! (seeing that my withdrawl support case haven't been looked at in 10 days now)

The best way to improve mayhem has been mentioned several times but I will mention it again.

It's obvious that the % of damage a player does can be tracked, since loot is already distributed on this basis. So why not just assign points based on damage done by any and all players?
For example, young and mature = 100 points, old and provider = 200 points, prowler and stalker = 500 points, etc. etc.
By making the points per mob higher like this it makes it much easier to deal them out based on percent of damage. So if you do 67% of the damage on a lvl 10 mob you get 335 points, 53% on a level 1 you get 53 points and so on, and so forth. Plus it would just be cooler to say "I got 1.5 million points!"

Of course, although this idea would make it a solo event, it does have it's flaws.
First and foremost, there are plenty of dicks ingame who would just go KS crazy just to steal points and prevent you from winning.
Secondly, if MM was truly a solo event it would ALWAYS be the people with mod merc or faster that place in the top 10, nobody else would stand a chance at all, Now they take the top few spots as a team, but solo they would each take the top 100 spots.

I think the idea of making mayhem mobs 'shared loot' and distributing points with items is a bad one, it would give the aforementioned 'dicks' even more incentive to steal points as they wouldn't be risking getting no loot if they didn't do >50% dmg.

Aside from the point system I also think that vehicle aggro should be completely disabled during MM, or at least come up with some way to prevent those dicks from running trains on you. That is a trickier issue to resolve I'm afraid.

lol in the time it took me to type this a bunch of people said the same thing

sententz said:

many people make this mistake i think..no ofence. Actualy teaming and tactics..are the only way to beat a uber player. Think about it a litle. A team of noobs..is very powerfull if you can organize them..and in my opinion is the only way to fight against ubers. Alone?..well..man..if you think you can fight against a mm or a doa..and uber armour..even if they have low skills..for lower levels.......to fight alone against that?..your crazy man..no ofence again.

Click to expand...

Well ubers with Foes & MM can also team up...

there was significant lag in some areas. Maybe something can be done to fix that next year.

Yes you are right Pioneer
Some things have been improved, and some things need improvement.

One things that has not been mentioned so much, which needs improvement imo, is the prizes for the winners!
I for one, would like a more spread prizes, since top3 is taken by the big ones, and top7-10 isn't worth teaming, only worth going solo.

I would like FPC to have a big more of imagination for the prizes, it is easy to figure something out. Here are a few examples:

TOP1-3: LA each (1 big LA, divided into 3 parts)
TOP1-6: armor set (for instance, shadow, angel, eon, vain, tiger, martial), in THAT order might be a good idea.
TOP1-10: mayhem part

Now Then me, and many other teams might have continued doing mayhem, if something like this, or mbe even a better idea, (doesn't need to be high end items, adj fap or doa LM would do the trick as well).
a (chance on) 7k armor part is not worth 30 hours of intensive team-hunting

P.S., make sure there don't get too many uber armors on the market as well. Still, I'm sure something can be done to incent hunters.

cheers
Naomi

edit: even a ped-price would help, but I guess you guys won't like that, since that can be exchanged into actual money, while virtual items are only a push of a button, and someone else has to deposit to buy it, prior to to other one exchanging it for real money.

sententz said:

many people make this mistake i think..no ofence. Actualy teaming and tactics..are the only way to beat a uber player. Think about it a litle. A team of noobs..is very powerfull if you can organize them..and in my opinion is the only way to fight against ubers. Alone?..well..man..if you think you can fight against a mm or a doa..and uber armour..even if they have low skills..for lower levels.......to fight alone against that?..your crazy man..no ofence again.

Click to expand...

With the current rules you are right. It is also a reason why a lot of people do not even bother to compete.

There is one point though the team is not declared the winner an individual player is. Also for the average player it is to expensive to form a huge team. In cat4 2008 i had approx 16.5k ped losses and a 10th place. In cat4 2009 i had approx 13k ped losses and a 5th place. This year my losses are only about 6k ped. This is for most people a major point for not competing as funding a team can be extremely costly as there is no guarantee that you will get a top10 or better even a top3 spot.

His question is though if there will be in 2011 a separate class / event for solo players. If there is a decent discussion may by there will be some rules were the lower categories will not be outclassed by tiered DOA's or MM's. A solution could be that everyone in the same class gets same armor/weapon/FAP.

The point is having an open discussion about it might see some solutions and may by make the event better for every one. Although it will always be impossible to please every one.

Cheers
Siam

sententz said:

many people make this mistake i think..no ofence. Actualy teaming and tactics..are the only way to beat a uber player. Think about it a litle. A team of noobs..is very powerfull if you can organize them..and in my opinion is the only way to fight against ubers. Alone?..well..man..if you think you can fight against a mm or a doa..and uber armour..even if they have low skills..for lower levels.......to fight alone against that?..your crazy man..no ofence again.

p.s. they are forces..like UU or AOW..which cant be beaten in any ways posible...theyr are old players..with imense experience in this game..and skills..and gears..and is extremly hard to beat them. Still..i'm know is hard..but is not imposible

Click to expand...

I see your point but still like stated above ubers team up too!

And if was a solo event a MM would be quite useless below lvl50 (if, of course, wasn't allowed to have a uber behind you finishing the mob with it)

Jennson said:

Well ubers with Foes & MM can also team up...

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yes..you right. But like sun tzu said....the only thing to do against a more powerfull foe..is too flee..To fight in open ground is stupid. So..you need to find different solutions. The only ones i can see..are tactics and teaming and organizing. One to one fight..is 100% defeat for you.

xaph said:

The Good: I had some fun
The Bad: Catagories for teamed vs non teaming.
The Ugly: Interuptions via vehicles trashing the game play/spawn adjustment.

The screw up, well that was fine at least you adjusted and fixed it whilst listening to the community with the capacities of a small team over the holiday period.
Cheers

Click to expand...

That'd be my summary.............thank you

Not sure if MA/FPC intentionally favored the high-end soc by giving them a relatively clean spawn at volcano crater. It could well be the case of taking adventage of what was out there .....and MA/FPC has nothing to do with it

Also, I think, keeping it solo and allowing a main hunter getting support from other players adds more fun.
It creates a room to devise more strategies/tactics........which by itself is probably the most exciting (or could be very frustrating when unable to implement)

sitram said:

That's why UU and cK camped the volcano spawn

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Our main gunner and 75% of the team didn't have enough hp or fap for the spawn that contained only 8-10s, which respawned too fast for us to keep up. A small team could have done just as well in those places as in the caldera due to the respawn frequency and average points of 4.5 per mob.