Mining in Entropia: * * *Private Lessons* * *

Windswept

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Apr 3, 2006
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SoF Soldiers Of Fortune
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Windswept Winds Tundra
Private Lessons on Mining for Interested Parties.


Time to try something a little different. Its a bit of a morale conundrum for some. It has taken a long time to reach this decision but i see a slow down in Morale, Patience, Comradery. I am not offering pie in the sky theories or asumptions on knowing how to "crack" the system. I am just going to lay bare all i have learned in 7.5 years of mining. So lets see what we can do together. Here is my plan.

1. When: TBD with the student. Calendaring service will be made available.

2. Who:Me and anyone any skill level is welcome to join.

3. Where: I have many places in a long list of places where i will select based on the student's input on what he or she wishes to mine. I will transport from a predesignated TP in my VTOL to the location(s). In future when available i will ferry to other planets as well for a nominal fee.

4. How: The lesson will be based on applying fundamentals i have taught in my basic/intermediate classes.
I will take the time to layout the pattern for the Miner based on his attempts at dropping bombs/probes.
I will provide feedback on how to proceed. We will cover skill gains and what they mean to your overall run and area.
I will establish a working diary of events for each taught run.
I will make adjustment suggestions based on current market and "Timing".
I will invest time in ongoing discussion and adjusments.
I will provide info on tools to use based on current skill level.
I Will assist in amp selection and usage.

5. Why: This is where it gets interesting. I believe in this game a considerable amount. I have seen ALL of its ups and downs. The thing that bothers me the most is the fact that i cant be everywhere all the time. But wait, could it be that is the very reason why i think I should teach this. I have heard many sides of the story in "giving" away too much info. Here is what i think. If more miners know what they are doing and how they can increase returns. Thats more minerals for crafters, more items for the populace, more things to do, etc, etc...

I cant possibly teach everyone but i sure will try. Please dont think me to be arrogant, self indulgent, and many other negative things. There are many miners in the game and i am sure they may have some tidbit of knowledge on the whens more so than the wheres and nifty things like that. I have much respect for anyone that has pushed through the challenges and catastrophes. It's time for me to step up and give back. There are many out there on the cusp of leaving, taking long breaks, etc. If i can help one person to get that excited feeling of coming back time and time again to find minerals in YOUR same place then i feel good.

6. How much: 500 ped per month for 3 months. I know, i know ... Its gotta cost something and any intelligent discussion about what i plan to provide should have a price. Any time spent teaching someone else is time i am not mining. I have talked to several people in passing from my classes and have thrown out the idea of a profit sharing system for miners. I thought long and hard about what could make that a losing proposition.. Poor mining results for those doing the sharing. I think it best if i establish a standard that people can follow and when we have enough people using the same method we can attach it to a business.

7. How many: I would like to start with a roster of 30 people to begin with. However 5 spaces will be reserved for society members wishing to join at a good discount of course. I have a family and a career but this is a close 3rd(hobbies).

8. How do you signup?: Please contact me with an email. Windswept1111@gmail.com. I will add names to my roster for first batch of 25 on a first come first serve basis. I will respond back with scheduling materials and basic on where will meet.

9. Initial Lesson: Our first lesson will be covering as much info as needed to get the miner started. ( 1-2 hours). From then on communications will be based on PMs(in game), Text chat(mobile), Email, we can workout other methods.


Ok, I have a somewhat empathic understanding of the people in this game through the forums. Please resist the temptation to poke holes in this or me. Its not for everyone and i value opinions but lets see what the customers have to say after they have completed the cycle. Feedback will be encouraged and there will be a separate post for that.

I appreciate everyone for taking the time to read this and consider it and i look forward to the impact this effort COULD have on our game.
 
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Yay! this is a very nice idea, i will/ might take advantage of this, if i can find and come to part with the 500ped for 3 month
 
I understand its a sum to pay to anyone. I appreciate the interest. Based on replies i have seen so far people have good questions and i will compile them as a FAQ in the original post. It will be time consuming for me but its time to lay a foundation for miners and I think this could help.
 
hmm interesting :)
 
Yay! this is a very nice idea, i will/ might take advantage of this, if i can find and come to part with the 500ped for 3 month
hmm I think I might do this for 500ped... but I think it's 1500 for 3 month. Sorry if you meant that anyway.


At the end of the day the question would be... can you guarantee that I make back at least 500ped by say the second month? Of course that would require a certain minimum effort from my side since I would need to reach a certain turnover I guess. However if I don't do that after the learning and mining with you then I assume it would be quite pointless to do the lesson anyway.
 
With regards to "cracking" the system, it is not possible to do. Mindark has the ability (obviously) to tweak / modify / change the system in any way that they wish to.

As for rallying support for this little project of Windswept, I am all for it. I like the idea of this project, the only problem is that MA could tap into text messages in the game and using Windswept's own data, change the system. It may / may not occur, but it is a concern. Out of game voice chat may be a better option.

7.5 years, boy time does fly when you are having fun. I am considering attending myself, really need to think hard about it though.

I think it all comes down to how seriously you see this little game, and how much trust / faith you can place into Mindark and Windswept.

Looking forward to see the FAQ.
 
Ratt , i am not cracking the system. I am merely offering up my services to teach other how i mine. Its involved and personal for each person. I have learned many things over time. With the limited time i have to mine and keep up with RL i am very willing as an established miner to offer up everything i know so others can enjoy this profession more.

Anyone can join and as many have seen from me i have a steady record of finding minerals and i can demonstrate that through teaching. Also i ave a high rank in Entropia Tracker for globals but it doesnt show all the non globals i find.

Please dont let the conversation stray here onto topics aside from what i am offering.. MA has changed nothing about the mining beyond depth and times they are available. Its that simple.. The system cant be cracked to have 100% success but it can be worked to provide fun and decent returns until the big one comes.

I only want more miners to be successful. Risks are up to them, i will do my best to teach when and where and for how long the risks have the best chance for success.

I also plan to see each of the miners that join me succeed in some form whether its returns, more globals and hofs, Or just an idea of when to not mine. The fact that i cant teach everyone is why MA wont change anything because i taught some people. Im not that paranoid. What i do see happening is a conglomerate of succesful miners working together to bring more to any planet they frequent.
 
OK here are some of the questions i have received from interested players.

FAQ
Q: You are asking for 500ped per month per 3 months. Now what happend if i just pay you 500 for first month?

A: When we start our first class payment will be made. You will have 30 days of involvement from me as much as i can apply to you personally. In game PMs, Emails, PCF PMs, any other agreed upon method. If after 30 days are up and you do not wish to continue with my assistance then simply do not pay and from then on you will be on your own. Should you want to return to me for assistance simply contact me and we will pick up from where we left off.

Q: Also will the classes will be with a group of 25 people or one on one?

A: All interaction will be 1 on 1, No one else will know anything i tell you nor will i ever share any info on locations scouted for you or minerals found. Returns and tracking info will never be shared with any other participants.

Q: How many hours a day?

A: Your first session in person with me will be at least 1 - 2 hours. We will visit the area chosen for you and mined with instruction until we have mapped its borders and depths. From that point on for the 30 days i will be available for any assistance i can provide. Of course i cant be physically at everyones locations all the time but i will do my best to assist. This is reason for the fee. As i involve myself personally i am unable to mine for myself.

Q: Now if i have the ped for the first month, what happens if i dont have the 500 ped for the second month?

A: As stated above assistance will stop and you will be on your own.

Q: Can you guarantee that I make back at least 500ped by say the second month?

A: I would be lying if i said yes. Your returns are up to you following my instruction and mitigating loss with discipline and patience. There are too many factors i cannot account for e.g. you decide to use large amps on a day i suggest not to mine and you lose all your ped. You change areas thinking you can apply this strategy to anywhere and you find your losses become excessive. Remember i am choosing the areas for you based on your input but there is a time it takes to establish a pattern.
 
OK here are some of the questions i have received from interested players.

FAQ
Q: You are asking for 500ped per month per 3 months. Now what happend if i just pay you 500 for first month?

A: When we start our first class payment will be made. You will have 30 days of involvement from me as much as i can apply to you personally. In game PMs, Emails, PCF PMs, any other agreed upon method. If after 30 days are up and you do not wish to continue with my assistance then simply do not pay and from then on you will be on your own. Should you want to return to me for assistance simply contact me and we will pick up from where we left off.

Q: Also will the classes will be with a group of 25 people or one on one?

A: All interaction will be 1 on 1, No one else will know anything i tell you nor will i ever share any info on locations scouted for you or minerals found. Returns and tracking info will never be shared with any other participants.

Q: How many hours a day?

A: Your first session in person with me will be at least 1 - 2 hours. We will visit the area chosen for you and mined with instruction until we have mapped its borders and depths. From that point on for the 30 days i will be available for any assistance i can provide. Of course i cant be physically at everyones locations all the time but i will do my best to assist. This is reason for the fee. As i involve myself personally i am unable to mine for myself.

Q: Now if i have the ped for the first month, what happens if i dont have the 500 ped for the second month?

A: As stated above assistance will stop and you will be on your own.

Q: Can you guarantee that I make back at least 500ped by say the second month?

A: I would be lying if i said yes. Your returns are up to you following my instruction and mitigating loss with discipline and patience. There are too many factors i cannot account for e.g. you decide to use large amps on a day i suggest not to mine and you lose all your ped. You change areas thinking you can apply this strategy to anywhere and you find your losses become excessive. Remember i am choosing the areas for you based on your input but there is a time it takes to establish a pattern.
 
good luck with your service :)
 
Well what I meant was when I follow what I learn obviously duh. However I understand that you can't control that.
Do you have some disciples already at the moment?
I for one am still considering the offer but I don't feel like risking 500ped and posibly not learning much new stuff.

Are you only able to make recomendations for Calypso or is the service valid for other planets too?
 
i have a few already signed up and sent me an email. What i teach works anywhere. I can understand why folks would be concerned with the outcome.. Its a risk for sure like anything in this game. If i were to get a full roster of people i would have to stop mining completely to focus on the students and their needs. im willing to do that because i believe its time to give back for a while.
 
I think 500 peds a month is a bit steep just to be able to talk to someone. Especially if you're a noob at mining.

My advice would be to just go out mining with 500 ped, odds are you won't be doing much worse then paying 500 ped to someone and then going out mining. :smoke:
 
I can understand that assumption. Im simply offering up how i mine and willing to show and talk about everything i know.. that includes locations of all minerals, depth to find them at and all those kinds of things. Ive got notebooks upon notebooks of data from years of mining. Im hoping it will help someone to move into a more efficient means of mining.
 
OK here are some of the questions i have received from interested players.

FAQ
Q: You are asking for 500ped per month per 3 months. Now what happend if i just pay you 500 for first month?

A: When we start our first class payment will be made. You will have 30 days of involvement from me as much as i can apply to you personally. In game PMs, Emails, PCF PMs, any other agreed upon method. If after 30 days are up and you do not wish to continue with my assistance then simply do not pay and from then on you will be on your own. Should you want to return to me for assistance simply contact me and we will pick up from where we left off.

Q: Also will the classes will be with a group of 25 people or one on one?

A: All interaction will be 1 on 1, No one else will know anything i tell you nor will i ever share any info on locations scouted for you or minerals found. Returns and tracking info will never be shared with any other participants.

Q: How many hours a day?

A: Your first session in person with me will be at least 1 - 2 hours. We will visit the area chosen for you and mined with instruction until we have mapped its borders and depths. From that point on for the 30 days i will be available for any assistance i can provide. Of course i cant be physically at everyones locations all the time but i will do my best to assist. This is reason for the fee. As i involve myself personally i am unable to mine for myself.

Q: Now if i have the ped for the first month, what happens if i dont have the 500 ped for the second month?

A: As stated above assistance will stop and you will be on your own.

Q: Can you guarantee that I make back at least 500ped by say the second month?

A: I would be lying if i said yes. Your returns are up to you following my instruction and mitigating loss with discipline and patience. There are too many factors i cannot account for e.g. you decide to use large amps on a day i suggest not to mine and you lose all your ped. You change areas thinking you can apply this strategy to anywhere and you find your losses become excessive. Remember i am choosing the areas for you based on your input but there is a time it takes to establish a pattern.

Interesting..

"mapped its borders and depths." - A quick thought, noobs won't have the tools, skills or finances to map all the depths.

"Remember i am choosing the areas for you based on your input but there is a time it takes to establish a pattern." - By establish a pattern I assume you mean establish a mining path of coord x,y then x1,y1 etc ?

So it's basically how to make a map.. In order to construct the map with four depth levels, you will have to drop +-437 bombs / probes just to survey a squared km, that's too much of an investment for me. I do not know how many others have the cash for it..

Problem with a map is that once in a while it needs to be updated so be sure to slap down another 437 probes / bombs per square km

Another problem is that of timing, one person cannot be at multiple places at the same time, we don't even know what the spawn / depletion timers are.

It's brute force, ie testing every single combination of coordinates until you find ones that work. The same stuff SMC used to uncover the mining veins in the beginning of the game's life cycle . Everyone knows how well that turned out when the coordinates were leaked.

With all this being said, there may not be another way to do it, except that what I would do is bring friends :) Split up the work, create a faster map.

Any chance of there being a group package deal Winds ?
 
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can't really call it "giving back" if you're charging for your services. jus' sayin':wise:
 
I am giving back. I am essentially offering all i know to anyone, something i dont think many would do. I have to charge. I cant imagine any service in real world or fantasy where providing assistance at this level would not have a fee associated with it. I hope that the feedback from those that actually join my classes creates a stir in the community where more people would feel the need to join or go off and help others. Without a working Mentoring system in place its very hard to do these sorts of things. Even in the mentoring system a reward was offered, sometimes of great value for the time spent helping others.

Right now i have 5 people signed up for the class. Remember you dont have to spend 500 ped each month. You can do the first class and hopefully understand enough to apply for the rest of your time in game. If not i will be available to continue providing support if needed.

ONe could spend 500 ped on bombs and tools and run around dropping them until they are gone. The question is what will you know differently after that? Will you be discouraged enough to leave the game? Did you do well enough to keep going again and again? Did you make enough to withdraw from the game and keep going? Im hoping to help enough to get a fair amount of miners on a good path to independence and perhaps a model that could lead to some sort of business as we track results together.
 
I dont think you understood what i said in the first post.

Please dont come here to poke holes in this effort or me. But you are doing it. Honestly Ratt you are trying to diminish what i am doing with a sense of logic that is not needed. I make 10-15k a month in profit alone just dropping bombs. No fancy systems, no mathmatical gimmickery, Just years of experience. Can i teach this to others? yes! Someone with more liquid cash, more hours in the day could probably double or triple those returns but i do this as a hobby and withdraw ped to have fun with my wife and kids. Its a nice supplemental income.

Again im sure its racking your brain trying to figure out how i am doing it. I dont need a brute force approach, i dont need models or OCR programs. Just some good timing and common sense and experience.

No group rates... i posted what its about. You can try doing the same thing as well Ratt noone is stopping you.
 
i understand you are a experienced miner , but this thread should have not been created on noobs corner but on service section since you are trying in fact to sell something . here is the link https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?44-Services
and yes, i know this section has more visibility ;) , but still wrong section .

... and still you are not giving back , but selling something and talk like a seller . you say no service IRL of high level is free . correct, but they are not : " giving back " either , but selling something .
good luck with your service !
 
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Sweet profits per month...
Since it seems that you track alot, i'd like to know your rough % TT-Return.
Mine is at 82% for a year now which prevents me from those profits ^^
 
Ok i will move it to the services section.

As far as the giving back, i have done free classes. So you are saying that when someone offers something for free they are giving back to the community what they have learned and when they have to charge for it they are not giving anything back to the community they are indeed taking something from the community or they are merely sellig something.

So a person that say hangs out at a dentists office learning the trade invents the toothbrush at home and uses it for years to brush his teeth and finds that life is better for him and wants to share his creation with the world. If he charges for the cost to make that tooth brush then he really isnt giving his invention to the world he is simply selling it to them and therefore takes on a more dubious selfish nature. Free good vs pay bad.
 
We can discuss this in another thread at some point. I would like to keep this post on track if possible related to my lessons. What i could possibly do for you is help you to up that % return maybe even target higher MU ores with regularity. The key to it all is minimizing waste and knowing when not to mine. If you are at a point where you feel your returns are acceptable and getting better over time then you may already be on a good path and i may not have anything else to offer. I had my times when things were very bad and i almost quit. Then i tried something a little different and expanded on it until i got to where i am now.

Its not break the bank success but it is withdraw from the game good and thats what i like and others would like as well.
 
can't really call it "giving back" if you're charging for your services. jus' sayin':wise:

yeah... having $1500 a month from a group of students has nothing to do with "giving back to community"
it's a quite expensive private education

which is totally OK, just the wrong choice of words here..
 
You can't really compare your service with the toothbrush. It's more like that in that movie with Al Pacino, can't remember the title. The one with the betting tip hotlines for sportgames. You're not selling a physical product, you're selling information.

So the real question is, how much could this information be worth? I personally don't think mining classes could increase your return, or provide you with information that isn't available on this forum. What remains is the knowledge of past finds. But the dynamics of the game reduce the value of that information imo.

Not saying mining classes are useless, a noob could learn alot in a short time. But when you're asking 500ped a month you're overcharging imo. Think a % of the globals/hofs sounds more fair. But that's just my thoughts, if you already have customers all the better for you.
 
GL winds!
hope everything works out :)
 
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I dont think you understood what i said in the first post.

Please dont come here to poke holes in this effort or me. But you are doing it. Honestly Ratt you are trying to diminish what i am doing with a sense of logic that is not needed. I make 10-15k a month in profit alone just dropping bombs. No fancy systems, no mathmatical gimmickery, Just years of experience. Can i teach this to others? yes! Someone with more liquid cash, more hours in the day could probably double or triple those returns but i do this as a hobby and withdraw ped to have fun with my wife and kids. Its a nice supplemental income.

Again im sure its racking your brain trying to figure out how i am doing it. I dont need a brute force approach, i dont need models or OCR programs. Just some good timing and common sense and experience.

No group rates... i posted what its about. You can try doing the same thing as well Ratt noone is stopping you.

It is not my intention to belittle anyone, it's just that you would need skills, liquid peds and patience in order for something like this to work.

Yes what is stopping me is my mindset, I have been looking for so long for patterns and finding them, but as quickly as they appear they vanish. I also know that depth is playing a major part in it. I do jump the gun and recognize perceived patterns as soon as I see them. It's time to slow down and think about what I am doing and trying to achieve.

Do I wish to invest huge amounts of raw cash like i did at the beta of this game ?, HELL NO. The depth changes ruined the little numberspiral that I had worked out.

There are risks to anything like this, including the cost involved to make it work. I am asking others to keep an open mind, that's all. If something like this takes off and it works, go for it !!

9:53 Sorry for the edit of this post, I think there is a way to do this kind of scan, sorry all please excuse me once again for placing my foot in my mouth, but I think best under pressure. I will not post anything more in this thread on the subject of "scanning" an area for resources.
 
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Yes that was at a basic level Nirfu. I enjoy those classes but what came from all those classes was PMs from users asking for more advance lessons. Honestly you cant do Advanced lessons to a group so i figured i would take some time off from mining and train interested folks in a specific method of mining i have found works for me. For those that can do well with it we can work on some way of turning it into a form of business or at the very least a nice way of getting to know other miners.
 
Yes that was at a basic level Nirfu. I enjoy those classes but what came from all those classes was PMs from users asking for more advance lessons. Honestly you cant do Advanced lessons to a group so i figured i would take some time off from mining and train interested folks in a specific method of mining i have found works for me. For those that can do well with it we can work on some way of turning it into a form of business or at the very least a nice way of getting to know other miners.

I think your concept is a good one and I might use your service in the future. 500 PED isn't that much money.
 
I wanted to let everyone know that i have 18 people ready to begin classes and 2 society member spots taken. I will be sending out the welcome email today with the info i am going to need to put together for each persons lesson plan and date to begin. I have 10 open spots that remain and 3 society spots left. If the society spots are not filled by end of the weekend i will open them up to public. I have 4 semi interested parties but no commitments yet.

If you are on the fence about this now is the time to get in on it i will be closing enrollment on Sunday night and whom i have will be the first batch of students. Not to say that more cant be added later but will have to wait maybe 2-3 weeks so i can focus on whom i have.


MY PCF Inbox is filling up to fast.. Email me at windswept1111@gmail.com if interested
 
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