Question: Morality of the Vehicle Kill/Repair Cycle

Acetone · Apr 13, 2011

sitram said:
Now you consider their behavior a misuse of game mechanics but you don't consider your behavior a misuse of game mechanics. You expect them to be "reasonable" by not decaying your vehicle yet you show a total lack of "resonability" by leaving your car in the area where they were, causing them lag and inconvenience when they might kill a mob spawned in it or another avatar that used is as defense.

Am I right?

It was a fair distance from the rig at this point, it wouldn't be useful for defense. As for a mob spawning in it, that would help the riggers since they don't have to waste ammo killing it. There were already 3-4 vehicles spawned there, one additional vehicle way off to the side is unlikely to cause additional lag. It would be out of their field of view most of the time.

Are you suggesting that I left it there intentionally to annoy them?

Ludvig|MindArk · Apr 13, 2011

Acetone said:
Are you suggesting that I left it there intentionally to annoy them?

No, he is suggesting that they might have felt that might have been the case. Or that you unintentionally annoyed them.

Hijacker27 · Apr 13, 2011

You went to a player vs player zone to harass PKers and/or get oil. Of course they're going to do anything they can to stop you from coming back. You obviously used a vehicle to try and get an advantage, and they used everything they could to get rid of this advantage.

Don't go to a PvP zone if you don't expect ALL of you stuff to get shot at.

Acetone · Apr 13, 2011

AL Killmore said:
Vehicles not taking decay was actually a bug (fixed by MA today). Abusing that bug is actually exploit (stated by MA in some support cases).

Well, i guess you didn't know that too.

That would mean that every single player with a vehicle was abusing a bug. Every one of them. A new player (or one that just returned) may not realise that vehicles are meant to decay fast. There was no announcement to warn players about this.

This may surprise you - not every single player reads the forums to make sure that what they are doing is right. A small application of common sense says that repeatedly repairing a vehicle to destroy it again is at least a dick move. This is an active action taken by a player.

Not realising that their vehicle is meant to decay more is not something that a player intentionally does.

Acetone · Apr 13, 2011

Nighthawk said:
However, leaving a destroyed vehicle in a pvp zone is also, as others have pointed out, inconsiderate and can cause lag for some people (or at least slow down) so...

An inactive vehicle is almost as easy to render as terrain. Active vehicles can cause lag because the exhaust trails and such apply fancy shaders.

sitram · Apr 13, 2011

Acetone said:
It was a fair distance from the rig at this point, it wouldn't be useful for defense. As for a mob spawning in it, that would help the riggers since they don't have to waste ammo killing it. There were already 3-4 vehicles spawned there, one additional vehicle way off to the side is unlikely to cause additional lag. It would be out of their field of view most of the time.

Are you suggesting that I left it there intentionally to annoy them?

All those are just assumptions made to suit your situation :laugh:

I am annoyed by ppl who don't have the decency to recall to storage their vehicle once they die. It bothers me and it interferes greatly with my gameplay no matter if they are 10m or 300m apart.

Please show some decency if you want to be treated the same way by others.

Acetone · Apr 13, 2011

Hijacker27 said:
You went to a player vs player zone to harass PKers and/or get oil.

I did neither. I went to say hi and see if any of the old riggers were there. Naturally you will dismiss this and assume I have oil greed. Try and remember that the spawn rate is way too slow for it to be practical.

Hijacker27 said:
Of course they're going to do anything they can to stop you from coming back.

That doesn't make it right.

Hijacker27 said:
You obviously used a vehicle to try and get an advantage, and they used everything they could to get rid of this advantage.

No, I used a vehicle to get there faster.

Hijacker27 said:
Don't go to a PvP zone if you don't expect ALL of you stuff to get shot at.

I did expect this. I simply didn't expect it to get resurrected and killed again dozens of times while I'm not there. Are you unable to see the difference?

sitram · Apr 13, 2011

Acetone said:
An inactive vehicle is almost as easy to render as terrain. Active vehicles can cause lag because the exhaust trails and such apply fancy shaders.

Again more assumptions to suit your current situation.

Pfff...

Acetone · Apr 13, 2011

sitram said:
All those are just assumptions made to suit your situation

I am annoyed by ppl who don't have the decency to recall to storage their vehicle once they die. It bothers me and it interferes greatly with my gameplay no matter if they are 10m or 300m apart.

Please show some decency if you want to be treated the same way by others.

I was unaware of this. I personally wouldn't notice a dead vehicle behind a mound of dirt where I can't see it.

sitram · Apr 13, 2011

Acetone said:
I did expect this. I simply didn't expect it to get resurrected and killed again dozens of times while I'm not there. Are you unable to see the difference?

On top of your blunt accusations against pk'ers not being "reasonable" you also show that you didn't had the decency to read the release notes.

It's not the forum, it's not some obscure site, it's all in the release notes. Vehicles can be damaged in pvp zone and they can't be repaired. Also there is a button below your radar which signals that others can damage your vehicle. Again mentioned in a release note.

Acetone · Apr 13, 2011

sitram said:
I am annoyed by ppl who don't have the decency to recall to storage their vehicle once they die. It bothers me and it interferes greatly with my gameplay no matter if they are 10m or 300m apart.

A small correction. I recall the original situation - I didn't die, I hopped in a land vehicle and drove back to an outpost. I recalled once I was out of the PVP zone and away from atroxes - that was enough time to lose a good chunk of TT value.

AL Killmore · Apr 13, 2011

Acetone said:
... A small application of common sense says that repeatedly repairing a vehicle to destroy it again is at least a dick move. This is an active action taken by a player...

Now, a "dick move" is waaaay different than "exploit".
Also, being affected by a bug is waaaaay different than abusing a bug.

If your common sense can't make the difference, maybe you should decrease your assumptions a bit. They maybe are not as reasonable as you think.

Acetone · Apr 13, 2011

sitram said:
On top of your blunt accusations against pk'ers not being "reasonable" you also show that you didn't had the decency to read the release notes.

It's not the forum, it's not some obscure site, it's all in the release notes. Vehicles can be damaged in pvp zone and they can't be repaired. Also there is a button below your radar which signals that others can damage your vehicle. Again mentioned in a release note.

It does not warn you that players will resurrect your vehicle over and over again to decay it. I KNEW that they could be damaged and I KNEW that vehicles were limited. It isn't immediately obvious that

That could actually happen
Someone is enough of an asshole to do it

Hijacker27 · Apr 13, 2011

Acetone said:
It does not warn you that players will resurrect your vehicle over and over again to decay it. I KNEW that they could be damaged and I KNEW that vehicles were limited. It isn't immediately obvious that

That could actually happen

Someone is enough of an asshole to do it

Well, now you know better. Stop leaving your vehicles in PVP.

Acetone · Apr 13, 2011

AL Killmore said:
Now, a "dick move" is waaaay different than "exploit".
Also, being affected by a bug is waaaaay different than abusing a bug.

Key words are "at least".

Further pondering would hopefully make one realise that it is not their intended use.

I don't believe I used the word bug. An exploit is not necessarily defined by abusing a bug.

Acetone · Apr 13, 2011

Hijacker27 said:
Stop leaving your vehicles in PVP.

I only left it for the two minutes it took to drive to an outpost. I couldn't recall it earlier or the vehicle I was currently in would have been recalled.

Hijacker27 said:
Well, now you know better.

So if your friend got stabbed taking the train at night, would you simply tell him "well, now you know better" and leave it at that?

Hijacker27 · Apr 13, 2011

Acetone said:
So if your friend got stabbed taking the train at night, would you simply tell him "well, not you know not to take the train at night" and leave it at that?

That's a completely different situation. This is more like taking your bmw, driving it through libya with a ghaddafi flag, and expecting it to NOT get shot up by angry rebels.

sitram · Apr 13, 2011

Acetone said:
A small correction. I recall the original situation - I didn't die, I hopped in a land vehicle and drove back to an outpost. I recalled once I was out of the PVP zone and away from atroxes - that was enough time to lose a good chunk of TT value.

Not recalling your vehicle means not recalling your vehicle, why do you try to make up excuses now?

The pk'ers didn't knew you were chased by a group of atrox, spilled hot coffee on your dick or just left the car intentionally there to disrupt their game play.

Have you actually tried to pk an avatar that is using someone else's care as a hiding place? It's totally annoying because you constantly get messages that you don't have access to that vehicle.

AL Killmore · Apr 13, 2011

Acetone said:
...So if your friend got stabbed taking the train at night, would you simply tell him "well, now you know better" and leave it at that?

Is your friend a virtual vehicle? :eyecrazy:

Strange analogy.

jenny ferr · Apr 13, 2011

Acetone said:
If a message popped up saying "Warning! Your vehicle is still in danger! Recall it immediately!" then I would agree that it is ignorant. No such message exists.

"Warning: you are low on ped"
"Warning: you are entering a building"
"Warning: someone tries to talk to you"
"Warning: someone tries to team with you"
"Warning: you might hunt above your level"
"Warning: you carry too much crap"
"Warning: someone just entered your estate"
"Warning: someone is close to you"

and so on... how many warning signs do you want??? Don't leave your car in pvp simple as that, drive it or pick up/spawn it when in pvp areas without radar is it so hard. These freaking "warnings" when i enter a city or outpost is annoying enough, if my vehicles is destroyed then it's a hard lesson learned simple as that...

Acetone · Apr 13, 2011

sitram said:
Not recalling your vehicle means not recalling your vehicle, why do you try to make up excuses now?

The pk'ers didn't knew you were chased by a group of atrox, spilled hot coffee on your dick or just left the car intentionally there to disrupt their game play.

I think you are missing the point here. Other players said that going AFK in PVP is bad - I did no such thing. I am trying to point out that this situation can easily arise while not AFK.

sitram said:
Have you actually tried to pk an avatar that is using someone else's care as a hiding place? It's totally annoying because you constantly get messages that you don't have access to that vehicle.

No. Does this make it an excuse to repeatedly kill the vehicle until it is 0 TT? (Hint: the vehicle will STILL BE THERE).

ChairmanEdgewise · Apr 13, 2011

sitram said:
Tell me please in which country you are allowed to stab someone in the face?

I don't see how your example is related to the current situation.

Read again please. I said as OP said, just because we are allowed at some place to wield knifes, it doesn't (DOES NOT) mean we are allowed to stab someone in the face.... Eh?

I "quoted" it from OP, took an example that he used, hope you understand now =)

Sorry if I am not being clear enough.

Acetone · Apr 13, 2011

jenny ferr said:
"Warning: you are low on ped"
"Warning: you are entering a building"
"Warning: someone tries to talk to you"
"Warning: someone tries to team with you"
"Warning: you might hunt above your level"
"Warning: you carry too much crap"
"Warning: someone just entered your estate"
"Warning: someone is close to you"

and so on... how many warning signs do you want??? Don't leave your car in pvp simple as that, drive it or pick up/spawn it when in pvp areas without radar is it so hard. These freaking "warnings" when i enter a city or outpost is annoying enough, if my vehicles is destroyed then it's a hard lesson learned simple as that...

You are listing some unrelated and unimportant warnings in attempt to show that my suggested (and very valid) warning is bad. You are quite right, the game has some useless warnings. On the same point, it is missing important ones.

Acetone · Apr 13, 2011

AL Killmore said:
Is your friend a virtual vehicle? Strange analogy.

Someone just pointed at something I said was wrong and said I should know better. I was applying the same principle to a situation that anyone should find wrong to show that it is a flawed way of looking at things.

AL Killmore · Apr 13, 2011

Acetone said:
... Does this make it an excuse to repeatedly kill the vehicle until it is 0 TT? (Hint: the vehicle will STILL BE THERE).

Next time the vehicle WON'T BE THERE. If it is there AGAIN - PKers will repeat their actions until the lesson is FINALLY learned.

Also:
Stabbing real people is ILLEGAL.
Destroying virtual vehicles is LEGAL (in PvP areas).

Obviously, you can't make the difference again...

Hijacker27 · Apr 13, 2011

Acetone said:
You are listing some unrelated and unimportant warnings in attempt to show that my suggested (and very valid) warning is bad. You are quite right, the game has some useless warnings. On the same point, it is missing important ones.

Warning: The mob you are shooting may not carry any loot
Warning: Dropping a bomb may not get you a claim
Warning: Using the crafting machine might not give you a usable product
Warning: Playing Entropia Universe may cost you money

Acetone · Apr 13, 2011

AL Killmore said:
Next time the vehicle WON'T BE THERE. If it is there AGAIN - PKers will repeat their actions until the lesson is FINALLY learned.

Does that make it okay?

Let's say I don't like other people taking my bus. If I go around stabbing everyone who gets it, eventually nobody else will take that bus. Success, right?

Skullseige · Apr 13, 2011

I LOLed.
Acetone can't take no for an answer even if he is in the wrong.
7 pages for this... I think this belongs in the jokes section or something.
Don't like losing your vehicles to decay? Don't leave them in pvp or leave them out at all.
If you think you "forgot" you left one or more out, recall it(them). If the recall isn't instant then 1 minute wont matter that much.
I don't think there are many, if anymore, that leave their vehicle out and in pvp.
Consider the situation a learning lesson, we all have them from time to time so live and learn.

Acetone · Apr 13, 2011

Hijacker27 said:
Warning: The mob you are shooting may not carry any loot

Back in VU 6.0 every mob dropped loot. Do you remember that?

In other games, every mob always drops loot.

Hijacker27 said:
Warning: Dropping a bomb may not get you a claim
Warning: Using the crafting machine might not give you a usable product

In other games, mining and crafting have 100% success rates.

Hijacker27 said:
Warning: Playing Entropia Universe may cost you money

Now you're just being silly. The whole point of warnings is to highlight something that isn't entirely obvious. The above seem to be obvious to you but they might not be obvious to a new player.

Many people don't expect that other players are even allowed to repair their vehicle in PVP - they otherwise cannot access it at all. Of those that do, how many will expect a player to actually do it?

They could put in an option to disable all warnings. Would that make you happy?

jenny ferr · Apr 13, 2011

Acetone said:
You are listing some unrelated and unimportant warnings in attempt to show that my suggested (and very valid) warning is bad. You are quite right, the game has some useless warnings. On the same point, it is missing important ones.

So the warning you want is important another warning someone else might think is important is useless just because it's not your wish?
I got down on your level thought you would see that but guess not

Question: Morality of the Vehicle Kill/Repair Cycle

Old

MindArk Official

Marauder

Old

Old

Marauder

Old

Marauder

Old

Marauder

Old

Old Alpha

Old

Marauder

Old

Old

Marauder

Marauder

Old Alpha

Elite

Old

Elite

Old

Old

Old Alpha

Marauder

Old

Alpha

Old

Elite