The Speed of light might not be the speed limit...

Stave

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A CERN experiment claims to have caught neutrinos breaking the universe's most fundamental speed limit. The ghostly subatomic particles seem to have zipped faster than light from the particle physics laboratory near Geneva, Switzerland, to a detector in Italy.

http://www.newscientist.com/article...may-allow-neutrinos-to-cheat-light-speed.html



Few more articles on it here: https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...eed-limit...&p=2812231&viewfull=1#post2812231
 
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I saw an article just a couple of weeks ago with some other team of scientist saying it is impossible to break past lightspeed since "we havent been able to do it" pretty much, so had a good laugh when I saw this this morning :laugh:
 
Yep i was reading about that today

Looks like they need to prove the statistical significance. Will probably be in debate for a couple of weeks before concrete significance can be assertained

At least, that was my take on it

Rgds

Ace
 
Well yes, the people who discovered it checked and checked again, and now they are opening it up for independant scientists to check on it all.

Should be a pretty exciting time if it is confirmed to be 100% accurate.
 
I thought Alberet Einstein said if you go the speed of light you turn to pure energy? Is this not connected to time travel?
 
I thought Alberet Einstein said if you go the speed of light you turn to pure energy? Is this not connected to time travel?

e = mc^2

as the speed of light is fixed. Then as you get close to the speed of light your mass increases. Thus to travel at the speed of light you would have infinite mass

If the neutrino which has a tiny mass, can travel faster than the speed of light then, that famous equation is not true

Rgds

Ace
 
Even if the speed is just 60 nanosecond faster. maybe we just got the Speed of light wrong.
 
Even if the speed is just 60 nanosecond faster.

If their experiment is right, it was 6km/sec more than light speed.
On a 730km race, light was (theorically) 20m behind neutrinos.

Impatient to see if this is confirmed by independant scientist!
 
Even if the speed is just 60 nanosecond faster. maybe we just got the Speed of light wrong.

Using lasers in a vacuum, the speed of light has been established as a damn accurate measurement

Rgds

Ace

PS if this is true, it is monumental
 
yup very cool! i hope this will open a new thinking about and then new possible real application (we really need to leave this planet soon or late)
 
If its true then the formula e = mc^2 doesnt apply anymore. Some would call it Einsteins greatest achivement.

I feel out of depth here but could it be like pie(3.14). You dont need all the decimals to use it to get a close enough answer. Could it be the same here?

Physics has advanced alot due to the formula, even if its wrong we have made alot of progress, what does one make of that?
 
If its true then the formula e = mc^2 doesnt apply anymore. Some would call it Einsteins greatest achivement.

I feel out of depth here but could it be like pie(3.14). You dont need all the decimals to use it to get a close enough answer. Could it be the same here?

Physics has advanced alot due to the formula, even if its wrong we have made alot of progress, what does one make of that?

It comes down to this. We use best fit theories for the available data.

If it is true, we have new data, which means a new theory will be needed to fit all the data

Something that i will leave to the experts lol. I struggle to understand it at the best of times

Rgds

Ace
 
Interesting, the speed limit of light is also the basis of cause and effect,
effects always follow causes. If that does not always hold, the basic laws
of physics might have to be rewritten.

Also, if the Gran Sasso results are proved correct, scientists would have reason to
believe that the current formulation of special relativity is wrong. This is troubling,
since the theory has been tested countless times in experiments and has not been disproved.
It is a cornerstone of our understanding of the universe.

Amazing stuf. :D

What exactly did the physicists do ?

Scientists at the Opera (Oscillation Project with Emulsion-tRacking Apparatus) experiment in
Gran Sasso, Italy, found that beams of neutrinos sent to its detectors from Cern, 730km away
in Geneva, arrived earlier than they should have.

The trip would take a beam of light around 2.4 milliseconds to complete, but after running the
experiment for three years and timing the arrival of 15,000 neutrinos, the scientists discovered
that the particles arrived at Gran Sasso 60 billionths of a second earlier, with an error margin
of plus or minus 10 billionths of a second.

Since the speed of light in a vaccum is 299,792,458 metres per second, the neutrinos were
apparently travelling at 299,798,454 metres per second.
 
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The neutrino took no heed of the curvature of the 4 dimensions and took its own path.

Or, the detector is broken.
 
Slight offtopic from that article:

Supernovae are exploding stars that are so bright they can briefly outshine their host galaxies. However, most of their energy actually streams out as neutrinos. Because neutrinos scarcely interact with matter, they should escape an exploding star almost immediately, while photons of light will take about 3 hours to get out. And in 1987, trillions of neutrinos arrived 3 hours before the dying star's light caught up, just as physicists would have expected.

Is that means - actual explosion of star take 3 hours?
 
Speed of light is still max possible, and Einstein is right.

Anything travelling at the speed of light is pure energy; it only has a theoretical mass obtained from the mc2 formula.

What I suspect it happened, said neutrinos took a shortcut between the measurement points, shortcut that is not perceivable by humans. Not yet. Wormholes do actually exist?
 
I don't think Einstein's theory will be a waste since there have been countless experiments done to prove it's worth. However something being able to break this formula just means it is functioning at a higher level than E=Mc2 that we don't know much about & this could lead to new areas of research. What this higher level could be is anyone's guess. Like planes using a higher law of lift to defy gravity, at several tons in weight this should be impossible right? ;). Maybe wisdom is right & it is taking a short cut we can't measure yet.
 
Anything travelling at the speed of light is pure energy; it only has a theoretical mass obtained from the mc2 formula.

What I suspect it happened, said neutrinos took a shortcut between the measurement points, shortcut that is not perceivable by humans. Not yet. Wormholes are true?


I like the shortcut idea :)

Wormholes anyone ;)

Rgds

Ace
 
No surprise!

Once people thought its impossible to move faster than 100km/h (proven wrong!)
Once people thought its impossible to move faster than sound (proven wrong!)
Today people think its impossible to move anything faster than light (proven wrong soon!)

Physics advance, our wisdom advances and our technics advance!

Thats normal!

Best statement of Einstein: Everything is relative (even his own theory!)
 
no surprise!

Once people thought its impossible to move faster than 100km/h (proven wrong!)
once people thought its impossible to move faster than sound (proven wrong!)
today people think its impossible to move anything faster than light (proven wrong soon!)

physics advance, our wisdom advances and our technics advance!

Thats normal!

Best statement of einstein: Everything is relative (even his own theory!)

I agree!!! And stfu all of you, who calling current speed of heli - exploit!!!
 
Maybe they just measured the distance wrong, or their clocks are out of synch :D
 
Slight offtopic from that article:

Supernovae are exploding stars that are so bright they can briefly outshine their host galaxies. However, most of their energy actually streams out as neutrinos. Because neutrinos scarcely interact with matter, they should escape an exploding star almost immediately, while photons of light will take about 3 hours to get out. And in 1987, trillions of neutrinos arrived 3 hours before the dying star's light caught up, just as physicists would have expected.

Is that means - actual explosion of star take 3 hours?

Sound to me like the neutrinos get a headstart from protons because of less/no interaction with the (mass of the) star.

But if the difference is the same at begining and start that would imply that they don't actually move faster, they just leave early.

Gravity(mass) has influence on the passing of time, so maybe if you're a particle that cannot be affected by gravity you get to leave early when looked at by a particle that does get influenced by gravity.

All pure specualtion on my part, I have absolutely no idea wse.
 
Sound to me like the neutrinos get a headstart from protons because of less/no interaction with the (mass of the) star.

But if the difference is the same at begining and start that would imply that they don't actually move faster, they just leave early.

Gravity(mass) has influence on the passing of time, so maybe if you're a particle that cannot be affected by gravity you get to leave early when looked at by a particle that does get influenced by gravity.

All pure specualtion on my part, I have absolutely no idea wse.

Just to add to this, neutrinos do get affected by the gravity of other particles but only at VERY close distances, which is why they are able to travel through the earth with little effect.


EDIT: i was going to try to add somehting intersting with the above but lost myself with my own limited knowledge


Rgds

Ace
 
Maybe they just measured the distance wrong, or their clocks are out of synch :D

Im sure the people who discovered this would have noticed silly mistakes like that when they checked their own work multiple times.

We will see if its true or not soon when independant scientists check the work i guess :)
 
Sound to me like the neutrinos get a headstart from protons because of less/no interaction with the (mass of the) star.

Not mass - neutrinos are affected by gravity just the same as protons. What they had the head start from was not interacting with the matter as much.
 
Im sure the people who discovered this would have noticed silly mistakes like that when they checked their own work multiple times.

Its also something everybody else checking will check as first thing. So it would get caught very fast.
 
Not mass - neutrinos are affected by gravity just the same as protons. What they had the head start from was not interacting with the matter as much.

Interaction with mass = gravity ?! That's what I thought anyway. Maybe there's other interaction I never heard of.

edit : overlooked matter for mass. Again, no idea if that matters, lol matters
ill stfu now
 
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Interaction with mass = gravity ?! That's what I thought anyway. Maybe there's other interaction I never heard of.

Electromagnetic, as an example. Why is left as an excercise to the reader ;)
 
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