The Speed of light might not be the speed limit...

Also notice how post 76 has not been deleted/edited, and post 78 - from me this one - that has been edited.

What you can't know as it refers to deleted content, is that what has been deleted in post 77 is exactly what the post 76 began with, with other words. (not rude words, neutral words)

When will this forum recover a bit of professionalism?
 
Last edited:
Sometimes things just get missed, and in point of fact the forum staff are not professionals but in fact volunteers who spend some of their free time helping out the community. JC has now edited post 76. I have also deleted a further post of my own that referenced it.

2.3 - Personal Disputes
Personal issues between individuals or societies should NOT be debated in the public forum areas and are not permitted. Such threads will be removed without notice, since they often promote an escalation of rudeness, insults, and flaming. If you feel that another member has attacked you unfairly, send a private message to a forum moderator or administrator.

Indeed. The problem is for every jab one of you sends the other's way, the other sends one right back. For every post you report, wizz is generally also reporting one of yours. You also have moved the personal issue to your signature which is only going to antagonize. The only fair action we could take as far as I see would be a temp ban for both of you, but for such a petty matter that seems a little excessive.

This forum has an 'Ignore User' feature, I suggest thinking about using it.
 
So if i understand right, you can decide to not abide forum rules as long as you send a report case, fine!

You can see by yourself the issue is not solved and won't be solved in the way you handle things, so what now?
Anyhow, i guarantee you that if am banned for beeing harrassed, I won't like it at all...

Find how to solve this problem and i won't feel the need to take different actions that those that are useless and you're proposing.

Question: will 'ignore button' disallow Wizz from sending neg rep? In that case, the solution is found, otherwise, it would solve nothing.

NB: I recognize that things can be missed sometimes, but solve this matter of things please, all those repeating stories are breaking forum rules AND EU ToU
 
Last edited:
So if i understand right, you can decide to not abide forum rules as long as you send a report case, fine!

No, my point is that neither of you are abiding by forum rules. And you can each see when the other breaks forum rules, and yet not so much see your own violations. I appreciate you feel he has treated you unfairly, but it is very hard to deal with it when you continually respond in kind and have a signature that can only serve to antagonize him.

The mods are not here to solve petty squabbles between community members. The forum provides a solution for that, which I've already pointed out. And no, it won't stop -reps, but if that continues after you're ignoring each other then we can look into that. It's harder to do that when there's tit-fot-tat posts all over the public forum on the matter.
 
Last edited:
Ok, putting him on ignore list, will see if things get solved by themselves, tyvm

Just saying if Wizz wasn't starting breaking rules, at first, i wouldn't have some of my posts edited/deleted.
 
My guess is that there is a pretty good chance people will find holes in the experiment and the results not get replicated. But it'd be pretty exciting if they're confirmed.

In that case my guess would either be the nice topological explanation with extra spatial dimensions, or some tweaking to relativity as v approaches c. But probably the final explanation would be more weird and interesting than anything we come up with now!

The effects of other uncalulated forces and or equipment calcs.

The method is not tested as a median and remains inconclusive.
 
Ok, putting him on ignore list, will see if things get solved by themselves, tyvm

Thanks. Hopefully wizz will do the same, and we can leave this matter behind. Back to topic with us!
 
The effects of other uncalulated forces and or equipment calcs.

Agreed, a miscalculation or an error in the methodology may still be the most likely explanation at this stage. But it's fun to speculate on the alternative :)
 
Look at this article I found -> http://www.ufoevidence.org/documents/doc1108.htm

The geostationary finder himself suggested long time ago that speed of light of a mass can be broke.

Also, you can check this one that has many interesting articles related on the topic here. -> http://www.ufoevidence.org/topics/speedoflight.htm

What a load of shite from a UFO hugging site:D
Bring us empirical evidence with peer reviewed research attached :D
The Crux of this is but the lack of emprical evidence.
The hyperboly is the new values, however they are not verfied as empirical :D
 
Last edited:
It seems a fake ufo website and probably is for lots of its content. Though many articles on the 2nd link i wrote, refers to more credible researches and theorists.

All scientists - correct me if am wrong - agree that space and time becomes the same thing as we approach c speed.
I personnaly think that we are thinking of a speed limit due to our lack of hability to really measure the essence of things at light speeds, and faster than light is achievable in my thoughts/books.

We may be able to control time and space, knowing more about relativity
 
Last edited:
Another very interesting link that changes the OP definition -> http://www.zyra.org.uk/lightspeedlimit.htm

After reading this, the OP from 'Neutrino has travelled faster than light' becomes 'even knowing faster than light speeds are common, why neutrino speed has not been measured at c value?'

This goes into what i think about our mis-conception of what light speed really is.
 
Last edited:
It's important to remember that when talking about changing the speed of light, that is rarely what actually happens.

For example light seem to move slower through water than through air, but that is not actually the case. What actually happens is that it takes a small amount of time for an atom to absorb and re emit light, and since the density of atoms in water is higher than air, and thus light is absorbed and re emitted more frequently, at greater delay is in effect. The light seem to move slower, but in reality, when the light actually moves, the speed is constant.

Likewise it is easy to imagine how the speed may seem to be increased. One could for example imagine some weird form of quantum entanglement or similar (bare with me, not actually my area of expertise) where the light is emitted before it is absorbed. There have also been suggestions involving extra dimensions and what not, which will result in the distance the light have to travel being shorts, thus making it seem like the speed is increased.

all this do not make this any less of a discovery however, but until this experiments is actually confirmed, you may want to wake up your inner critic.

I do hope it's true however. Just imagine lag being a thing of the past...
 
Another very interesting link that changes the OP definition -> http://www.zyra.org.uk/lightspeedlimit.htm

I don't think it really does change the OP definition. What they are discussing there are consequences of relativity. If I somehow accelerate myself sufficiently I can get to Alpha Centauri in what feels like as short a time as I like, to me, but I have not travelled faster than lightspeed. To anyone observing my journey, it will take more than 4 light years. Effectively where I've experienced a few minutes, actually much more time has passed. Like the article says, I've not only travelled in space, I've also travelled in time.

This is different to the neutrinos, which (may) have been observed to have been travelling faster than c.

For example light seem to move slower through water than through air, but that is not actually the case. What actually happens is that it takes a small amount of time for an atom to absorb and re emit light, and since the density of atoms in water is higher than air, and thus light is absorbed and re emitted more frequently, at greater delay is in effect. The light seem to move slower, but in reality, when the light actually moves, the speed is constant.

Nice explanation, thanks. Didn't know that.
 
Nice explanation, thanks. Didn't know that.

You're quite welcome. I actually think that the majority don't know it. Nor did I for a very long time, thus the speed of light being constant didn't make sense to me at all, as I knew it could be slowed down.
 
- describe how are things after light speed? (negative mass, negative flow of time, mostly taking place in black holes, that would explain why we don't see them, if the flow of time is reversed, there is actually no future to look at inside black holes, etc)

No. Negative mass and negative time flow are theoretical artefacts of the laws that say everything must stay below c. If something gets above c, then we don't actually have a reason to say it would then have negative mass or moev back through time.

If the experiment under discussion showed speed greater than c, it also showed that negative mass and traveling backwards from time did not happen to the neutrinos. Otherwise these would not have been detected where these were.
 
Infinity & Beyond

The 'Speed of Light' (phenomenon) and c (Physical Constant) are not the same thing.

The quanta under restriction is energy, therefore if the neutrino is sufficiently small then it may not violate 'Relativity', but will require amending....just as Einstein replaced Newton but only at the 'margins'.
 
{off topic}

No, it's a theoretical side-effect of a flawed theory. There's a big difference. The gravity issue is a non-sequitur, or at most, just another part of the flaw. And no I stand by what I said, thanks.

If you write about time travel you have to deal with einsteins theories - you are correct, it's a theoretical side effect of this theory, but whether it's flawed or not... i for one wouldn't dare to invalidate einstein so easily, bigger men than you and me tried this and failed.

I don't get why you think the gravity issue is a non-sequitur: time, mass and speed do behave like einsteins theories predict it - if you say it is flawed, fine, but then you have to come up with some facts, and better yet, with a corrected, better theory to replace the one you're trying to invalidate!


And please, i said "travelling back in time", but this applies to (sub)atomic particles (if at all), you took this the "time travel way and made it "people travelling back in time" - this was not what i said. I also didn't say that this is possible (if anything, i believe only info can somewhat "jump back", but not mass).

And well, if you see time as a stream, you have to accept that if something travels faster than light, that it will arrive at it's destination BEFORE the "time flow" has reached it - from inside of the stream this will look like something arrived before it started: a leap back in time - but this is about the same "time travel" as the light of dead stars that we can only see because if the immense distances - if you go far enough, light from already vanished sources will still be visible.

Einstein-Rosen bridges work the same way - you arrive instantly, but you didn't move faster than light - nonetheless you made a "time travel" in the form i outlined above.
The important difference in the time travel as i use it here is that you have to travel a large distance to travel back in time - under these circumstances it is not possible to move back to your own past on planet earth.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
{off topic}

Edit: not continuing this game, am sorry to drive some readers out of the way, but a limit has been reached and i'll do all that is in my rights to make it stop. For now, am gonna let it go like you said in following post, Safara, am also gonna take a break from forum, i have other things to do with the money i depo than beeing insulted, difamated, etc.
We'll see if it remains the same when i get back.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
why am i receiving neg rep if am on ignore list? (insult comments)

I dont see any reps from Wizz today in the admin area.

Wizz and Ed. Pack it in you two.

Wizz, if you have an issue with Ed over your soc mate, take it up with MA, not here.

Ed, stop rising to it and let it go. By all mean report issues, but no need to throw threads off track all the time.

Stay on blooming topic or take a break.

Thanks :)
 
{off topic}

Edit: not continuing this game, am sorry to drive some readers out of the way, but a limit has been reached and i'll do all that is in my rights to make it stop. For now, am gonna let it go like you said in following post, Safara, am also gonna take a break from forum, i have other things to do with the money i depo than beeing insulted, difamated, etc.
We'll see if it remains the same when i get back.

Leaving this bit here and let this be the end of it in these forums.

Back onto the speed of light through rocks an stuff :)
 
If you write about time travel you have to deal with einsteins theories - you are correct, it's a theoretical side effect of this theory, but whether it's flawed or not... i for one wouldn't dare to invalidate einstein so easily, bigger men than you and me tried this and failed.

I don't get why you think the gravity issue is a non-sequitur: time, mass and speed do behave like einsteins theories predict it - if you say it is flawed, fine, but then you have to come up with some facts, and better yet, with a corrected, better theory to replace the one you're trying to invalidate!

The issue of gravity affecting time is a bit of either (un)intentional misdirection, or a simple mistake by the scientists. I'll explain.

Take the simple experiment of 2 synchronized atomic clocks and one gets a jet ride. After a while the clock in the jet (depending on the east/west direction of travel) shows either a faster or slower time than the ground-based clock.

The usual explanation is that time changed. But the Reality is simpler. Time didn't change, the tool to measure it did.

Atomic clocks base their measurement on known spin cycles of specific atoms (the details don't matter, you get the point.) But when forces (such as gravity) affect the spin rates of those atoms, it affects the clock.

Imagine a wind-up watch whose spring is almost unwound. The watch runs slow, but that doesn't alter time. Same with using measuring tape made of rubber. A 4-foot item can shrink to 3-feet when the tape is stretched right. A stupid thing to do of course, but you get the idea. I've outlined this issue before in this post.

And please, i said "travelling back in time", but this applies to (sub)atomic particles (if at all), you took this the "time travel way and made it "people travelling back in time" - this was not what i said. I also didn't say that this is possible (if anything, i believe only info can somewhat "jump back", but not mass).

To me, talking of time travel whether mentioning a tachyon or a ship of people are the same thing. One is simply bigger and much more difficult. But ok, we can drop the big things.

Einstein-Rosen bridges work the same way - you arrive instantly, but you didn't move faster than light - nonetheless you made a "time travel" in the form i outlined above.

Ahh, the wormhole. I read Stephen Hawkings "A Brief History of Time" back when I was a teenager (Still have two copies of it on my bookshelf) I never was able to believe that wormholes were real.

And around 2007, Hawking came out an admitted he was wrong about that. IIRC, he was specifically talking about using black holes as wormholes and "coming out the other end", which is what he admitted wouldn't work.

However, back on the specific topic, yes, under certain conditions, certain items can travel FTL.

Edit:
My mistake, the Hawking retraction in 2004 was about black holes swallowing and never regurgitating. (News source here)
 
Last edited:
I never was able to believe that wormholes were real.

I don't like the term wormhole as it conjures up all sorts of sci-fi nonsense, fun though it can be.

It's just topology really. If there's only the three spatial dimensions we're familiar with, there's no nice short-cuts for us. If there are more dimensions, then the possibility is not unrealistic. Although going from that to making use of them on a macro-scale is quite a, um, jump.
 
I don't like the term wormhole as it conjures up all sorts of sci-fi nonsense, fun though it can be.

Yeah bridges, tunnels, wormholes... Whatever you call them, any explanation I've ever heard have always left me unconvinced.
 
The usual explanation is that time changed. But the Reality is simpler. Time didn't change, the tool to measure it did.

Well, time as we know it IS defined as the duration of x oscillations of the caesium atom.

If the caesium atom changes it's oscillations, what did change: Time? Or the caesium atom? As long as we define one through the other we cannot really say what has changed.

But, it was no coincidence that they based the SI unit time on caesium: It's oscillation is very stable, hardly influenced by temperature and other conditions, so when you claim the device has changed you have to provide a bit more than just that, i.e. reproduceable results that indeed lead to an alteration of the caesium atoms oscillation, like very high speed (speed of the airplane) or anything like that.

Just claiming "it is wrong" is not enough, because that reduces what once was physics to a mere question of faith.


Ahh, the wormhole. I read Stephen Hawkings "A Brief History of Time" back when I was a teenager (Still have two copies of it on my bookshelf) I never was able to believe that wormholes were real.

And around 2007, Hawking came out an admitted he was wrong about that. IIRC, he was specifically talking about using black holes as wormholes and "coming out the other end", which is what he admitted wouldn't work.

However, back on the specific topic, yes, under certain conditions, certain items can travel FTL.

Well, the main point here is that things do not really move faster than light, actually they move way slower, they just "skip" a bit of the distance - if you measure departure and arrival time and compare it to the travelled distance, you will get a resulting speed > c - but if you measure the actual speed of the travelling mass you get way lower results.

Is this really "travelling faster than light"? I dont think so, it's a mere "teleportation" so to speak because the mass is not going "the whole nine yards" - the relativistic mass of the travelling object was never close to what we would expect close to c, let alone beyond c.
 
off topic

It must exist something much faster than that neutrino because we see ATH from other planets instantly.

Wormhole interplanetar travell does not exist only because MA do not alow that.

Time travel exist because we loose a lot of time from planet to planet and much more if we get murdered and robbed by the way.
 
Well, time as we know it IS defined as the duration of x oscillations of the caesium atom.

No, it's measured by those oscillations. There's a difference. Yes a second is defined by X oscillations. Yes that method of measurement is the most stable we have available at the moment. But that doesn't mean infallible under all conditions. As I said, if you can tweak the measuring stick, that doesn't change the length being measured.

Just claiming "it is wrong" is not enough, because that reduces what once was physics to a mere question of faith.

I'm not questioning the observations, merely the conclusions human make of them.
 
No, it's measured by those oscillations. There's a difference. Yes a second is defined by X oscillations. Yes that method of measurement is the most stable we have available at the moment. But that doesn't mean infallible under all conditions. As I said, if you can tweak the measuring stick, that doesn't change the length being measured.



I'm not questioning the observations, merely the conclusions human make of them.


You missed my point:

It is not possible to distinguish between a change in the measuring device and a change in the measured value.

You could only try a different measuring method and hope find something that hints which one is off, but THAT measuring device is underlying the same rule...



And in particular the speed of light cannot be measured more precise as it is now, if the speed of light is not 100% correct, it's the distance being not 100% precise:

The General Conference on Weights and Measures has determined that better measuring devices do NOT give better results for the speed of light, but a more precise length of the SI unit "metre" - go figure.



Or, to put it more simple:

If you drive in your car and accelerate - is it you moving faster? Or do you maybe shorten space-time and that's why you arrive earlier?
 
Last edited:
It must exist something much faster than that neutrino because we see ATH from other planets instantly.

Hehe, evidently the Entropia Universe is governed by different rules to our universe :D

Yeah bridges, tunnels, wormholes... Whatever you call them, any explanation I've ever heard have always left me unconvinced.

At a simplistic level, in our real world we can see these 'bridges'. Take a rubber band and make it such that it is almost an 8 figure, but not quite meeting in the middle. If say we're an ant near the middle and can't jump, if we want to get from one side to the other we must traverse half the length of the rubber band. If we're a flea and can jump, we can get from one side to the other with much less effort.

Our current understanding of physics allows in a similar way for 4+ dimensional topologies. And, indeed, invoking these extra dimensions helps solve some problems traditional 3D physics cannot. If they were to exist it is likely they would only be accessible at very small scales, so using them for interstellar travel for instance is pretty far-fetched. But at the scales needed for it to provide an explanation for experimental results that are the thread topic, it is scientifically plausible as I understand it.

Obviously we cannot say we know these things exist, since we've not observed definitive evidence of them. But equally we cannot say we know they don't exist, because science has not definitively shown that. And so science is unconvinced too, because the question is still open.

But when in a different manner you say you're unconvinced and, particularly, that you believe they're not real, I do start to wonder whether we are discussing science or philosophy here. You appear to be taking an educated guess? Which is fine, as long as we don't mistake it for science.

There's a quote I like from a scientist called Hobson. He was having a debate with his boss one day, who during the debate stopped him and said "Wow! You really believe in science!". Hobson responded, "That’s ridiculous. I don’t believe in science; science is our defence against belief."
 
Last edited:
It is not possible to distinguish between a change in the measuring device and a change in the measured value.
Clearly we disagree. :)

A year is defined (measured) by Earth's path around the sun. Imagine if some event occurred to slow down Earth's rotation, would time differ completely or would we simply have 366 day years instead of 365.25?

But when in a different manner you say you're unconvinced and, particularly, that you believe they're not real, I do start to wonder whether we are discussing science or philosophy here. You appear to be taking an educated guess? Which is fine, as long as we don't mistake it for science.

Yes, I am making an educated guess. Based on what I've learned, these are the answers that I believe best fit the observations. Call it faith, or whatever I don't care, that's fine. :)
 
Back
Top